An enhanced trading experience

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

3 minutes ago, SheikaVoid said:

And that's a problem for you?  You're really going to oppose the ease of sale and market democratization to maintain the value of digital items in Warframe of all games, where plat has no transferability with real money?

Go ask someone for loki prime for 100p, and when they say no, ask them why it's a problem. 

[MqToasty]

29 minutes ago, ReaverKane said:

TAXES!
You want to get rid of plat faster from the economy? Put fees/taxes in the Auction House/Trading Post, a 5% posting fee and a 10% tax on purchases, and you'll get plat circulating out of the economy way faster than the current system can do it.

Yes.  And even worse?  Casinos.  Not bad enough?  Weekly Clan vs Clan PvP Tournaments with time-limited PvP boosters.  That's where you see the real whales come out to play...  DE has done a good job making Warframe a fun game without exploiting (too much) gambling and social circle-based psychological tricks that many other games have.  For that I am thankful.

[SheikaVoid]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Go ask someone for loki prime for 100p, and when they say no, ask them why it's a problem. 

That's neither an answer nor a realistic scenario, because that's not how markets work.  Even on the most basic level, the buyer doesn't ask for things and name a price.

[SheikaVoid]

1 minute ago, MqToasty said:

Yes.  And even worse?  Casinos.  Not bad enough?  Weekly Clan vs Clan PvP Tournaments with time-limited PvP boosters.  That's where you see the real whales come out to play...  DE has done a good job making Warframe a fun game without exploiting (too much) gambling and social circle-based psychological tricks that many other games have.  For that I am thankful.

Absurd and a complete non-sequitur.

[PublikDomain]

6 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

An AH in WF wouldnt work since it would be plagued by the same things that turned the RMAH into a terrible thing in D3 since something with real money value would be involved. Undercutting and so on would become a regular thing, sniping aswell and it would eventually de-value Platinum to be worth nothing in player to player trading. Selling would just be far less complicated so more and more players would do it actively, which would saturate the market with items at extremely low price. Meaning that with the trade limit it would take more and more time for players to go the F2P way in order to obtain market items like cosmetics, frames, weapons, boosts bundles and so on since those items would still sit at the exact same DE designated prices.

Then maybe Warframe should adopt a different style of auction house. Limiting the system using trades/day and requiring manual steps to be taken by both parties to carry out the transaction would help slow the market down enough to remain stable. For example, by using Maroo's Bazaar as an asynchronous-but-not-fully-automated trade board.

And if you want to claim that selling would be less complicated and lead to more sellers (which I think would be the case), then you also have to admit that buying being less complicated as well should lead to more buyers. Plus there are existing systems like Baro that are made to pull items out of circulation, so items with some real value (ie not Ammo Drums) should never reach zero. All the extra trade activity would increase the likelihood that plat reaches a player willing to spend it on the premium market or on premium services like rushing or entitling, meaning more plat should exit the market faster. Plat exiting the economy like this is critical to driving new cash plat sales, because if plat just sits and piles up in people's wallets they're not going to buy more for cash.

Improved tools would increase trade and increase spending on other services, and things like the economy collapsing doesn't need to happen if the system is made with the right considerations. It'd only cause problems if it were made in the worst way possible.

[MqToasty]

1 minute ago, SheikaVoid said:

Absurd and a complete non-sequitur.

It would not be if you read the damn thread to understand what the hell we are talking about.

[SheikaVoid]

1 minute ago, MqToasty said:

It would not be if you read the damn thread to understand what the hell we are talking about.

I appreciate the condescension, but I simply don't agree, and I find the statement absurd.

[ReaverKane]

20 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

So an auction house is still just a way for cheap people to get rare items cheaper....gotcha.

13 minutes ago, MqToasty said:

Yes.  And even worse?  Casinos.  Not bad enough?  Weekly Clan vs Clan PvP Tournaments with time-limited PvP boosters.  That's where you see the real whales come out to play...  DE has done a good job making Warframe a fun game without exploiting (too much) gambling and social circle-based psychological tricks that many other games have.  For that I am thankful.

Whoo, those Strawmen are so rampant, Batman is going to need some help.

6 minutes ago, SheikaVoid said:

I appreciate the condescension, but I simply don't agree, and I find the statement absurd.

Because it is... I mean he's talking about Non sequitur, while conflating an auction house with gambling. I mean, if anything is coming out of nowhere and has nothing to do with the topic to a ridiculous degree (yes, that's the definition of non sequitur btw), its his conflating Casinos with Auction House/Trading post taxes (which btw, you already have a tax on trades).

I mean, seriously some people's pursuit for virtual affluence can get downright ridiculous.

[MqToasty]

7 minutes ago, ReaverKane said:

Whoo, those Strawmen are so rampant, Batman is going to need some help.

Because it is... I mean he's talking about Non sequitur, while conflating an auction house with gambling. I mean, if anything is coming out of nowhere and has nothing to do with the topic to a ridiculous degree (yes, that's the definition of non sequitur btw), its his conflating Casinos with Auction House/Trading post taxes (which btw, you already have a tax on trades).

I mean, seriously some people's pursuit for virtual affluence can get downright ridiculous.

Wait, you weren't talking about ways to drain plat from the system when you wrote "TAXES!"?  Then why did you quote my comment about there being worse ways to do so?  And you realize that draining the economy of excess currency is a necessary procedure for F2P economies, right?  Or is it that you do not believe games have implemented casinos and PvP tourneys to serve this function?  You got me confused now.

[SheikaVoid]

1 minute ago, MqToasty said:

Wait, you weren't talking about ways to drain plat from the system when you wrote "TAXES!"?  Then why did you quote my comment about there being worse ways to do so?  And you realize that draining the economy of excess currency is a necessary procedure for F2P economies, right?  Or is it that you do not believe games have implemented casinos and PvP tourneys to serve this function?  You got me confused now.

Are you well?

[ReaverKane]

2 minutes ago, MqToasty said:

Wait, you weren't talking about ways to drain plat from the system when you wrote "TAXES!"?  Then why did you quote my comment about there being worse ways to do so?  And you realize that draining the economy of excess currency is a necessary procedure for F2P economies, right?  Or is it that you do not believe games have implemented casinos and PvP tourneys to serve this function?  You got me confused now.

Well, examples?
GW2 has a trading post, has taxes on it, and on gem transfer, PvP tournaments AWARD gems (very rarely) don't cost any. And gear is cheap and content-bound (kinda like on Warframe). It does have a "casino" costs a resource you gain from salvaging rare gear to gamble, no gems are expended.
And your "suggestions" have nothing to do with the topic. There was a concern that Trading Post could reduce the spending of plat, i just addressed that concern, showing that the Trading Post is flexible enough to be able to address just about any concern the developers have, and do that much better than the current system, which fails incredibly.

[MqToasty]

40 minutes ago, ReaverKane said:

Well, examples?
GW2 has a trading post, has taxes on it, and on gem transfer, PvP tournaments AWARD gems (very rarely) don't cost any. And gear is cheap and content-bound (kinda like on Warframe). It does have a "casino" costs a resource you gain from salvaging rare gear to gamble, no gems are expended.
And your "suggestions" have nothing to do with the topic. There was a concern that Trading Post could reduce the spending of plat, i just addressed that concern, showing that the Trading Post is flexible enough to be able to address just about any concern the developers have, and do that much better than the current system, which fails incredibly.

Okay, then I misunderstood you.  For that I apologize.  Although in that case I still do not know why you replied to my comment ending with: "There are many much more underhanded ways to take currency out of circulation, and I applaud them for not going there."  With "TAXES!".

To make sure I do not misunderstand you again, are you asking for examples of games utilizing the nastier tactics I listed with "Well, examples?"?  If so and you can understand Chinese, then this video goes over some of the nastier tactics devs have developed to squeeze money out of players.  Starting at 8:00, he delves deep into a F2P (basically P2W) game he started playing in 2008 for about 2 years.  He personally spent around 100,000RMB (15,000USD) in the 2 years, but knows someone who spent that amount in a month.  IMO, that game is a much better analogue to Warframe, as unlike GW2, it was always designed to be F2P.  The main difference is just how aggressively the devs tried to monetize their game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRGvwj9FGr8

[SneakyErvin]

15 hours ago, ReaverKane said:

No, because the RMAH in Diablo 3 was intentionally made by Blizzard to profit from the players, not as a P2P trading section.
An AH/TP in Warframe would be the same thing as the Trading Post in GW2, which is one of the few things in the game they got perfectly right at launch, back in 2012.

It wouldnt be near GW2 since that game uses a system very close to all other MMOs with AHs. You cannot trade items for premium currency, the only part of that AH that has a connection to premium currency is the specific section that lets you convert in-game currency to premium at a rate regulated and set by ArenaNet and not the players, it also requires players to be willing to sell premium currency at the going rate. If Warframe would adopt a similar system, then yeah it would work, where all trades between players are made with credits and all in-game platinum is obtained through a conversion system with players willing to sell their platinum for credits.

15 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Then maybe Warframe should adopt a different style of auction house. Limiting the system using trades/day and requiring manual steps to be taken by both parties to carry out the transaction would help slow the market down enough to remain stable. For example, by using Maroo's Bazaar as an asynchronous-but-not-fully-automated trade board.

And if you want to claim that selling would be less complicated and lead to more sellers (which I think would be the case), then you also have to admit that buying being less complicated as well should lead to more buyers. Plus there are existing systems like Baro that are made to pull items out of circulation, so items with some real value (ie not Ammo Drums) should never reach zero. All the extra trade activity would increase the likelihood that plat reaches a player willing to spend it on the premium market or on premium services like rushing or entitling, meaning more plat should exit the market faster. Plat exiting the economy like this is critical to driving new cash plat sales, because if plat just sits and piles up in people's wallets they're not going to buy more for cash.

Improved tools would increase trade and increase spending on other services, and things like the economy collapsing doesn't need to happen if the system is made with the right considerations. It'd only cause problems if it were made in the worst way possible.

It would also likely cost them more than they'd gain on new plat sales given what they said in the devstream yesterday regarding "clan ads". They wont be able to let all clans have ads active, there is no chance in hell they'd be able to let all players have auctions active.

And you assume more people would be willing to spend on rushing etc. Why? All of those things would effectively be more expensive since you'd get less plat for sales because people would be able to undercut and pushing down prices more effectively while players are still limited by daily caps. Not to mention that a notable tax would be needed in order to force plat in circulation to drain so more plat could get sold to maintain the system and in order for people to not post crap for silly prices.

They'd also have to implement a system that verfies platinum so it is legit, since you'd no longer be able to smoothly check a seller/buyer profile. Buyers being the worst since you cannot avoid low MR scam accounts if the AH autosells your items to anyone.

But given what was said regarding clans yesterday I wouldnt hold my breath on an AH system.

 

[ReaverKane]

55 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

It wouldnt be near GW2 since that game uses a system very close to all other MMOs with AHs. You cannot trade items for premium currency, the only part of that AH that has a connection to premium currency is the specific section that lets you convert in-game currency to premium at a rate regulated and set by ArenaNet and not the players, it also requires players to be willing to sell premium currency at the going rate. If Warframe would adopt a similar system, then yeah it would work, where all trades between players are made with credits and all in-game platinum is obtained through a conversion system with players willing to sell their platinum for credits.

It would also likely cost them more than they'd gain on new plat sales given what they said in the devstream yesterday regarding "clan ads". They wont be able to let all clans have ads active, there is no chance in hell they'd be able to let all players have auctions active.

And you assume more people would be willing to spend on rushing etc. Why? All of those things would effectively be more expensive since you'd get less plat for sales because people would be able to undercut and pushing down prices more effectively while players are still limited by daily caps. Not to mention that a notable tax would be needed in order to force plat in circulation to drain so more plat could get sold to maintain the system and in order for people to not post crap for silly prices.

They'd also have to implement a system that verfies platinum so it is legit, since you'd no longer be able to smoothly check a seller/buyer profile. Buyers being the worst since you cannot avoid low MR scam accounts if the AH autosells your items to anyone.

But given what was said regarding clans yesterday I wouldnt hold my breath on an AH system.

 

1) The rate ISN'T set by Arena Net, its set by the market, supply and demand leads to fluctuation on the rate (you can see the graph on the link in one of my first posts here). That doesn't change the fact that it works.

2) HAHAHAH... I love it how you assume ridiculous S#&$ as fact, just because that's what you imagine. They're adding a RESOURCE cost for adds (the image in the stream was rubedo iirc) and its not because of costs, its a freaking anti-spam measure. If you have to pay for ads, you're less likely to abuse the system. Also resource sink.

3) Ah now we see the true face of the person afraid to lose "their cut" if the market gets democratized.

4) AHAHAHAHA! NEGATIVE PLATINUM!! That's all you need to know about the "legit sales".

5) Nothing was said about clans that would invalidate the AH, quite the opposite.

 

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, ReaverKane said:

1) The rate ISN'T set by Arena Net, its set by the market, supply and demand leads to fluctuation on the rate (you can see the graph on the link in one of my first posts here). That doesn't change the fact that it works.

2) HAHAHAH... I love it how you assume ridiculous S#&$ as fact, just because that's what you imagine. They're adding a RESOURCE cost for adds (the image in the stream was rubedo iirc) and its not because of costs, its a freaking anti-spam measure. If you have to pay for ads, you're less likely to abuse the system. Also resource sink.

3) Ah now we see the true face of the person afraid to lose "their cut" if the market gets democratized.

4) AHAHAHAHA! NEGATIVE PLATINUM!! That's all you need to know about the "legit sales".

5) Nothing was said about clans that would invalidate the AH, quite the opposite.

 

1. It is still seperate from actual direct trading with premium currency. There is also a regulation in it set by ArenaNet, it has always been like that. The algorithm is based on supply and demand, but the algorithm is controlled by ArenaNet to never dip too low or peak too high. Which just wont be a thing in WF unless DE changes their very open stance on player-to-player trading. GW2 is also limited in the use of premium currency, whatever you buy in that game that is related to premium actively removes it from the game. That isnt the case in WF where plat can circulate the game forever while trading hands and being used for pretty much all types of tradable items. It doesnt leave the system unless we buy something directly from DE.

2. You completely missed my point or you didnt watch the stream. The cost tied to the adds is of no interest here, what is of interest is that they straight up said that there wont be enough add space for all clans to have adds, cost or no cost. That means there is limited space, so if they were to add an AH for all players to utilize there would have to be actual costs tied to it to make up for the real life resource costs of having them available to the whole playerbase. Credits or ingame resources wouldnt be valid, so plat taxes would have to be implemented so that plat is always removed from the system to increase sales to help pay for the extra resources needed to host an AH for the players to use.

Just look at it. If they cant allow space for all clans to have adds at a given time, some of which hold hundreds of members, how do you think they'd be able to allow what would be practically adds with alot more data involved for each single player? That would be an add spot for each and every player of those several hundred, as opposed to the single spot a clan would take, and then a couple of million ontop of that in total. Not only that, but it wouldnt just be streamlined add data to keep track of, it would be several entries of data for each single person wanting to sell something. Number of items based on daily cap, rank of items that can have ranks, sell price chosen by the player etc. And this is before we go into how the items will be stored once put up for sale. Will they stay in the inventory? Will the AH act as a secondary inventory (like in most games), should it have a "collect" stash for unsold items aswell as for your plat gained through successful sales?

3. I dont care about my cut. I'm just saying it wouldnt make me buy more since I'd effectively earn less per sale. And since I'm already hesitant to buy those QoL features, I certainly wouldnt buy them more if the income gets slower. I also dont sell very much or very often, I actually cant recall the last time I sold something. Maybe a year or so ago, perhaps longer.

4. Not sure what is funny with negative platinum. It is currently a thing and there are currently ways to avoid it by simply not selling to low MR accounts, which would be impossible to chose with an AH since the game would handle the sales. Unless of course they make a system where platinum gets checked before it can enter the AH. Which would be an actual benefit of such a feature.

5. The whole limitation regarding number of clans that can have adds active at a time pretty much speaks against an AH. Unless of course we are willing to pay for our spots up front with platinum for each thing we try to sell, no matter if the sale is successful or not. There is a massive difference between not being able to allow thousands of clans to place adds and then suddenly be able to allow millions of players to place sales adds.

Or do you think they should limit the use of an AH aswell into some first-come-first-serve system? Yeah that totally wouldnt just benefit the trade barons!

edit: And to be perfectly clear. I'm not against the idea of an AH. I'm just saying it wont work in WF. A thing people also ignore is that in an MMO (which WF isnt) there often isnt a huge debate on the costs of an AH, since the games are already based on a server infrastructure for everything else with dedicated servers. So the increase in costs to have AHs is a drop in the ocean. WF however doesnt have dedicated servers, so adding an AH would be a cost increase because they'd need to expand aswell as come up with a system that can interact with players when they arent online and so on.

[ReaverKane]

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

1. It is still seperate from actual direct trading with premium currency. There is also a regulation in it set by ArenaNet, it has always been like that. The algorithm is based on supply and demand, but the algorithm is controlled by ArenaNet to never dip too low or peak too high. Which just wont be a thing in WF unless DE changes their very open stance on player-to-player trading. GW2 is also limited in the use of premium currency, whatever you buy in that game that is related to premium actively removes it from the game. That isnt the case in WF where plat can circulate the game forever while trading hands and being used for pretty much all types of tradable items. It doesnt leave the system unless we buy something directly from DE.

2. You completely missed my point or you didnt watch the stream. The cost tied to the adds is of no interest here, what is of interest is that they straight up said that there wont be enough add space for all clans to have adds, cost or no cost. That means there is limited space, so if they were to add an AH for all players to utilize there would have to be actual costs tied to it to make up for the real life resource costs of having them available to the whole playerbase. Credits or ingame resources wouldnt be valid, so plat taxes would have to be implemented so that plat is always removed from the system to increase sales to help pay for the extra resources needed to host an AH for the players to use.

Just look at it. If they cant allow space for all clans to have adds at a given time, some of which hold hundreds of members, how do you think they'd be able to allow what would be practically adds with alot more data involved for each single player? That would be an add spot for each and every player of those several hundred, as opposed to the single spot a clan would take, and then a couple of million ontop of that in total. Not only that, but it wouldnt just be streamlined add data to keep track of, it would be several entries of data for each single person wanting to sell something. Number of items based on daily cap, rank of items that can have ranks, sell price chosen by the player etc. And this is before we go into how the items will be stored once put up for sale. Will they stay in the inventory? Will the AH act as a secondary inventory (like in most games), should it have a "collect" stash for unsold items aswell as for your plat gained through successful sales?

3. I dont care about my cut. I'm just saying it wouldnt make me buy more since I'd effectively earn less per sale. And since I'm already hesitant to buy those QoL features, I certainly wouldnt buy them more if the income gets slower. I also dont sell very much or very often, I actually cant recall the last time I sold something. Maybe a year or so ago, perhaps longer.

4. Not sure what is funny with negative platinum. It is currently a thing and there are currently ways to avoid it by simply not selling to low MR accounts, which would be impossible to chose with an AH since the game would handle the sales. Unless of course they make a system where platinum gets checked before it can enter the AH. Which would be an actual benefit of such a feature.

5. The whole limitation regarding number of clans that can have adds active at a time pretty much speaks against an AH. Unless of course we are willing to pay for our spots up front with platinum for each thing we try to sell, no matter if the sale is successful or not. There is a massive difference between not being able to allow thousands of clans to place adds and then suddenly be able to allow millions of players to place sales adds.

Or do you think they should limit the use of an AH aswell into some first-come-first-serve system? Yeah that totally wouldnt just benefit the trade barons!

1) Well, plat never leaving circulation IS a bad thing. Also, Arena Net doesn't directly influence the exchange rates, its controlled by supply and demand:

(That's a post from the economist that was in charge of designing that system, and was the guy managing the economy of the game).

2) The cost in database is exaggerated by DE at all points, like it was with Rivens, which they miraculously managed to triple? the limit on. Also there's a HUGE difference in having clan adds, which would be otherwise permanent, and having trading postings, which should be VERY transient, at least the majority. Also having a limited number of slots with time limits ensures that there's no chance for inactive clans to keep their ads up. Which isn't really an issue with the trading post. Those are very different things underneath, and infering meaning on one from the other is not really smart.

3) If you'd earn less per sale, then buy prices would also be reduced, achieving a new equilibrium, but you ARE thinking about your virtual wealth, which sadly is what motivates 90% of the posts against such a system. Its harder to fool people into selling a 200+ plat Riven for 10 plat if they can check the price ingame.

4) Its not funny, did i say it was funny, Negative plat is the living proof that the current system is broken, and the platinum regulation you were pointing out as a negative necessity in a trading post system (which wouldn't really be needed depending on how they worked the trading post) IS ALREADY NECESSARY. here's what you don't seem to understand, BECAUSE you can't pick who you're trading with, there's no chance that the sale was malicious, and such, they can handle negative platinum differently (which to be honest they should be doing so already, that process is a bit anti-ethical, and is a guilty until proven innocent stance, also a good reason for the trading post, since you can't use trading as a way to launder plat acquired after declining a credit payment.

5) Not it doesn't, you're conflating different systems, like i already explained. Also, yeah, i already proposed taxes, which then would fit your bill, and would work as a platinum sink as well. If anything, the new recruiting feature is evidence that a trading post might be a thing in the near future, because all the arguments that Reb presented for the recruitment board can be made for a trading board, and then some.

Truth is there's no argument you can make against the trading post, because the cold truth is, whatever the reason you have against it (except the only real one aka not being able to exploit the current broken trading system) can be baked into the system itself. You can charge a platinum tax to fund the server, you can bake in the protections against fraudulent platinum, you can rework whatever you want along with it. The only argument DE can make is that they don't have the human resources available to do it. Everything else is simply a smokescreen to obfuscate the fact that some players are accumulating ridiculous amounts of platinum on the backs of the broken system.

[TheGuyver]

52 minutes ago, ReaverKane said:

4) Its not funny, did i say it was funny, Negative plat is the living proof that the current system is broken, and the platinum regulation you were pointing out as a negative necessity in a trading post system (which wouldn't really be needed depending on how they worked the trading post) IS ALREADY NECESSARY. here's what you don't seem to understand, BECAUSE you can't pick who you're trading with, there's no chance that the sale was malicious, and such, they can handle negative platinum differently (which to be honest they should be doing so already, that process is a bit anti-ethical, and is a guilty until proven innocent stance, also a good reason for the trading post, since you can't use trading as a way to launder plat acquired after declining a credit payment.

 

What's to stop someone from buying the 200 dollar platinum package, then going to the "auction house" and spending all of it, before charging the platinum back on their card? People have literally done that to get dozens of people banned for negative platinum. 

Negative plat will always be an issue, AH or not and since it's been an automated support issue that hasn't been touched in years, it's really doubtful that it will go away. 

[SneakyErvin]

18 minutes ago, ReaverKane said:

1) Well, plat never leaving circulation IS a bad thing. Also, Arena Net doesn't directly influence the exchange rates, its controlled by supply and demand:

(That's a post from the economist that was in charge of designing that system, and was the guy managing the economy of the game).

2) The cost in database is exaggerated by DE at all points, like it was with Rivens, which they miraculously managed to triple? the limit on. Also there's a HUGE difference in having clan adds, which would be otherwise permanent, and having trading postings, which should be VERY transient, at least the majority. Also having a limited number of slots with time limits ensures that there's no chance for inactive clans to keep their ads up. Which isn't really an issue with the trading post. Those are very different things underneath, and infering meaning on one from the other is not really smart.

3) If you'd earn less per sale, then buy prices would also be reduced, achieving a new equilibrium, but you ARE thinking about your virtual wealth, which sadly is what motivates 90% of the posts against such a system. Its harder to fool people into selling a 200+ plat Riven for 10 plat if they can check the price ingame.

4) Its not funny, did i say it was funny, Negative plat is the living proof that the current system is broken, and the platinum regulation you were pointing out as a negative necessity in a trading post system (which wouldn't really be needed depending on how they worked the trading post) IS ALREADY NECESSARY. here's what you don't seem to understand, BECAUSE you can't pick who you're trading with, there's no chance that the sale was malicious, and such, they can handle negative platinum differently (which to be honest they should be doing so already, that process is a bit anti-ethical, and is a guilty until proven innocent stance, also a good reason for the trading post, since you can't use trading as a way to launder plat acquired after declining a credit payment.

5) Not it doesn't, you're conflating different systems, like i already explained. Also, yeah, i already proposed taxes, which then would fit your bill, and would work as a platinum sink as well. If anything, the new recruiting feature is evidence that a trading post might be a thing in the near future, because all the arguments that Reb presented for the recruitment board can be made for a trading board, and then some.

Truth is there's no argument you can make against the trading post, because the cold truth is, whatever the reason you have against it (except the only real one aka not being able to exploit the current broken trading system) can be baked into the system itself. You can charge a platinum tax to fund the server, you can bake in the protections against fraudulent platinum, you can rework whatever you want along with it. The only argument DE can make is that they don't have the human resources available to do it. Everything else is simply a smokescreen to obfuscate the fact that some players are accumulating ridiculous amounts of platinum on the backs of the broken system.

1. Like I said, there is still an algorithm in place to balance it so it doesnt go ape. I never said that supply and demand wasnt what decided the prices, just that the dips and peaks are regulated.

2. The increase in riven slots isnt very odd. Years come and go, tech improves and so on. Riven slots are also static and payed for. And yes there is a huge difference between clan adds and trade listing. But it doesnt come down to if they are permanent or not. DE could make the clan adds unlimited since it would still only add up to a fraction of the number of trade listings and they'd also be restricted by a few select variables. Trade listing would be far more complex and would need to be usable by every single player that wants to. That is millions of items per day that would need to be prepared for. Like I asked, how would storage of them be handled etc? How would the game handle offline/online interaction and so on?

3. The prices of the services in question wouldnt change. Rushing would still be 50p, no matter if you get 100p or 10p for X item. Slots, weapons, frames, taters, formas cosmetics etc. would still cost just the same as now even if we were to get less per sale. And I dont care about my virtual wealth, I care about how much more needs to be sold before being able to pick up a market item, rushing or something else. While player-to-player trading likely will turn out to be about even due to costs being lower, the in-game Market will be more expensive due to lower player-to-player prices. DE will not alter their prices, nor should they since the player-to-player market is open afterall. That however doesnt mean the players arent straight up stupid and fail to realise that they just made the Market more expensive in the perspective of player-to-player traded plat.

4. Plat regulation, negative, what, where? I never mentioned anything regarding a regulation. I mentioned that for an AH to work we need to have the plat validated before use. Which would be a positive thing. Regarding the rest I'm really not sure what it is you try to say that I dont understand. The trade can still be malicious, more so when we cant see it if platinum doesnt require actual validation before use. Most people arent effected due to direct trades with a fraudee, they are effected by trading with someone who traded with someone who traded with someone who traded with a fraudee. So without a validation system that risk would still be there, but it would make it even easier for a fraudee to launder the plat by buying directly from the AH since people cannot avoid his alt low MR account, he could pretty much pick and chose his most juicy targets. DE tracks the plat, they dont track individual items trades, so the fraudee could pick up what he needs, make it shift hands and then just do his chargeback jig on the alt account. Alt account gets auto-banned for the chargeback, then whoever it bought from on the AH will have the plat removed, but the items will never return to the owner.

5. You dont seem to understand the complexity of adding an AH system to a non-MMO game with a peer-to-peer setup. There is alot more to it than the simple clan adds. Clans are already part of the "backend" of the game. Everything regarding trades comes down to individual interaction, how items are stored and so on. Especially when it comes to the whole online/offline interaction. Things may look really simple on paper, but alot more goes into it than that.

So there are plenty of reasons against it. I also wonder if you tried to imply I want the current system because I exploit it? Maybe read what I said in the previous post, I havent traded in a year or more. And if you read a bit more carefully you'd also notice that I said I dont have anything against the idea of an AH. There are just too many things in WF that speak against it ever being implemented.

[ReaverKane]

1 minute ago, TheGuyver said:

What's to stop someone from buying the 200 dollar platinum package, then going to the "auction house" and spending all of it, before charging the platinum back on their card? People have literally done that to get dozens of people banned for negative platinum. 

Negative plat will always be an issue, AH or not and since it's been an automated support issue that hasn't been touched in years, it's really doubtful that it will go away. 

Nothing prevents that from happening. BUT because the AH is a blind exchange, DE KNOWS that the person receiving the plat isn't to blame, so they can adjust their procedure. Negative plat isn't a consequence of people cancelling credit cards, its a consequence of how DE handles that. Or do you think the only game this happens is Warframe?

[SneakyErvin]

3 minutes ago, TheGuyver said:

What's to stop someone from buying the 200 dollar platinum package, then going to the "auction house" and spending all of it, before charging the platinum back on their card? People have literally done that to get dozens of people banned for negative platinum. 

Negative plat will always be an issue, AH or not and since it's been an automated support issue that hasn't been touched in years, it's really doubtful that it will go away. 

If anything it would just make it easier to fraud.

[ReaverKane]

Just now, SneakyErvin said:

If anything it would just make it easier to fraud.

HOW?

[sir_deadlock]

5 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And you assume more people would be willing to spend on rushing etc. Why? All of those things would effectively be more expensive since you'd get less plat for sales because people would be able to undercut and pushing down prices more effectively while players are still limited by daily caps.

You're saying a lot of insightful things that sounds reasonable, so I've got no comment to make. This bit though I don't understand. Stuff like rushing foundry builds, etc., That's all set by DE. Platinum too is valued according to DE and has a real world cost associated with it, so it somewhat holds its value according to real life economic markets. (although it isn't supposed to be traded backwards for cash, but that's why black market plat needs to be a consideration)

Just saw #3 on the post above. Never mind. I get it now. Sales relative to purchasing power.

[SneakyErvin]

Just now, ReaverKane said:

HOW?

Because they'd need to move away from the automated system regarding fraudulent plat that are a product of chargebacks. An AH wont magically solve that. They need to reworks several different things in the game to make it safe and userfriendly.

Example. Now with personal trading a player can avoid low MRs. With an AH that low MR fraudee could just open up the AH, look through the listing and buy whatever he wants. They'd practically open up the killing floor to such players so they can hunt their prey freely.

[TheGuyver]

Just now, ReaverKane said:

Nothing prevents that from happening. BUT because the AH is a blind exchange, DE KNOWS that the person receiving the plat isn't to blame, so they can adjust their procedure. Negative plat isn't a consequence of people cancelling credit cards, its a consequence of how DE handles that. Or do you think the only game this happens is Warframe?

The person receiving it NOW isn't to blame, I don't know what makes you think an even blinder exchange is going to do. Just because you say it's so, doesn't make a reality dude, if some mr2 posts a braton prime stock for 100p and someone buys it, only to charge back, they're still going to get banned if they're in the negative blind exchange or not.

 

Just now, SneakyErvin said:

If anything it would just make it easier to fraud.

I know right? I read some of these posts and I wonder how people can go through life with with these rose tinted glasses. It's just "me me me me me gimme AWCTIN HAUZ" with literally no regard for any of the hundreds of factors at play here.

[Fl_3]

In other news.

That Clan Advertising thing on the last Dev Stream looks interesting. Paying resource's to add your clan to a list of those looking for new members outside of recruitment chat.

Just think what would happen if something like that was added to the game to allow you to sell things outside of trade chat?

Prototype auction house in being tested with clans first boys!