Nidus 2, and power strengh

[FacuNeko]

Nidus is the onlyone that has 115% strengh without mods. And his Parasitic Link does well with power stengh themed warframe.

I'll take the risk to say confidently that nidus IS the power stengh warframe. but he has that one ability that will not scale with it. He's Larva (the 2nd ability)

My idea is to give it 1m "punch through" by every 100% power strengh, while it be ¡0 at base! so you would need 200% power strengh to have 1m, an nidus being the only one who could use it with 0.15m punchthrough without mods.

Heres why this is not a bad idea and the change would be a good thing to do:

(i have to leave this clear, i dont say i want larva to detect more enemies through walls, IT ALREADY DOES THAT, i want this to atleast make them go to the larva center)

•First: this punchthrough means the distance an enemy can travel through walls (i very very often sees enemies stuck between structures).

•It wouldn't give damage at all, so this will NOT break helminth system, and if this worries you, helminth larva has reduced range (you wouldn't have 1m range without atleast 2 mods anyway and blind rage has a huge downside by its own)

•Nidus needs to kill enemies on larva to cast it again so this is pretty much needed

•This fits nidus power strengh theme well (i love his kind of theme like corrupted mods, he has no shields/shield gating but has a bit more of power strengh)

I also saw a cool idea at another time:

If parasitic link could "link" buffs (like, if the ally has roar on him and/or xata's whisper i would like to have it too, or share him my Teeming virulence and end this buff duration whenever the link expires(even if the buff last longer than this link, maybe a nullifier spawned in my face or something))

i dont really know if this last one is probable to happen, but the first one i see it as a must Q-Q a really painful must

edit: no, is not good enough to waste it on an augment, non of both ideas, even if it's exilus, this has to be at base nidus

[Pizzarugi]

One meter punchthrough at 200% would certainly help, but I think it should get that at 100% and move to 2m at 200%, because not every obstacle enemies get grabbed into are that thin.

Other than that, I agree.

[LagartoPunkarra]

I would find it really funny to see enemies get yoinked through walls, like if they got squeezed through a really small hole.

[Pizzarugi]

2 hours ago, ElecDeathblade said:

I would find it really funny to see enemies get yoinked through walls, like if they got squeezed through a really small hole.

Knowing DE and how they get away with letting your mechs walk through small doors by scraping through, they could do the same with ragdolls.

Larva grabs enemies, suddenly you hear a SCREEE or BANG as they shoot through the wall towards the ball.

[FacuNeko]

hace 2 horas, ElecDeathblade dijo:

I would find it really funny to see enemies get yoinked through walls, like if they got squeezed through a really small hole.

it would be fair since i currently DO grab enemies trough walls, this annoys me soo much

hace 5 horas, Pizzarugi dijo:

because not every obstacle enemies get grabbed into are that thin.

i agree, nidus would still have more than the rest of the warframes just because of his native strengh

edit: overextended users wouldn't get a change, so it's ok

[Teridax68]

I question the need for the main suggestion for a number of reasons:

• Larva is already among the strongest crowd control abilities in the game. Giving it an additional, purely beneficial Power Strength scaling gives the ability power it doesn't really need.
• Giving Larva a Strength scaling would not meaningfully alter Nidus's build decisions, since as the OP states, he already has plenty of incentive to build Power Strength.
• Nidus in general is a very strong frame who does not need to pull enemies through walls in order to already be great at what he does. In particular, he already competes with crowd control-focused warframes like Zephyr and Vauban purely on the merits of Larva, and so I don't think it would be great for balance to push him beyond those frames' ability to round up enemies.

I do, however, like the idea of Parasitic Link allowing buff-sharing. If I were to give Larva one buff, it would be to have enemies caught by it give Nidus stacks when killed by any source, and it could be good if Parasitic Link also let Nidus gain stacks from his ally's kills. That way, he could stack smoother when in a team, which I think is currently his main quality of life issue, as he often loses out on stacks when allies kill enemies caught in Larva, and thus finds himself trying to play on his own when his kit is otherwise amazing at assisting others in addition to himself.

[FacuNeko]

hace 2 horas, Teridax68 dijo:

doesn't really need.

maybe you are wrong there

[Teridax68]

1 minute ago, FacuNeko said:

maybe you are wrong there

Is Nidus underperforming? If so, how so?

[FacuNeko]

Justo ahora, Teridax68 dijo:

how so?

enemies gets stuck through structures

[FacuNeko]

hace 2 minutos, Teridax68 dijo:

Is Nidus underperforming?

i said it there ↓

 

En 29/5/2021 a las 3:17, FacuNeko dijo:

, i dont say i want larva to detect more enemies through walls, IT ALREADY DOES THAT, i want this to atleast make them go to the larva center)

 

[Teridax68]

On 2021-05-29 at 7:17 AM, FacuNeko said:

(i have to leave this clear, i dont say i want larva to detect more enemies through walls, IT ALREADY DOES THAT, i want this to atleast make them go to the larva center)

So you think Nidus is underperforming relative to other warframes... because he can't pull enemies through terrain? What? How is this different from a request to make Nidus trivialize any combat?

[FacuNeko]

hace 22 minutos, Teridax68 dijo:

. because he can't pull enemies through terrain?

i more like a bug fix what i want, if DE make larva a line of sight treatment like khora when it doesn't hitted enemies that would work as well, because i grab enemies trough structures and usually can't hit them with my 1

[Teridax68]

45 minutes ago, FacuNeko said:

i more like a bug fix what i want, if DE make larva a line of sight treatment like khora when it doesn't hitted enemies that would work as well, because i grab enemies trough structures and usually can't hit them with my 1

This I'd support more, because Larva is meant to be LOS-restricted anyway. If it's getting enemies stuck on terrain, then that should be amended so that it doesn't reach through walls.

[FacuNeko]

hace 1 hora, Teridax68 dijo:

This I'd support more, because Larva is meant to be LOS-restricted anyway. If it's getting enemies stuck on terrain, then that should be amended so that it doesn't reach through walls.

:D
maybe i was asking for too much xd

[LagartoPunkarra]

On 2021-05-31 at 8:51 PM, Teridax68 said:

This I'd support more, because Larva is meant to be LOS-restricted anyway. If it's getting enemies stuck on terrain, then that should be amended so that it doesn't reach through walls.

I disagree, I think that Larva having the ability grab enemies through obstacles would be the most beneficial than nerfing it with a LOS restriction. Take in consideration that each enemy killed in Larva has a chance to give Nidus a stack of his passive, making Larva be based on LOS would makes less enemies in the area to be affected by Larva. What OP is asking is for the enemies that are grabbed through obstacles to be pulled from said obstacles with a Power Strength based punch-through, not being a buff per-se, but more of a QOL improvement.

On 2021-05-31 at 7:33 PM, Teridax68 said:

Is Nidus underperforming? If so, how so?

And he may be a beast in long missions, but he underperforms in short missions, as his abilities are focused more for those long missions. Making Larva have punch-through wouldn't really make Nidus stronger overall, he would still underperform in short missions, it would just make him gain stacks slightly more quicker.

[Teridax68]

4 hours ago, ElecDeathblade said:

I disagree, I think that Larva having the ability grab enemies through obstacles would be the most beneficial than nerfing it with a LOS restriction. Take in consideration that each enemy killed in Larva has a chance to give Nidus a stack of his passive, making Larva be based on LOS would makes less enemies in the area to be affected by Larva. What OP is asking is for the enemies that are grabbed through obstacles to be pulled from said obstacles with a Power Strength based punch-through, not being a buff per-se, but more of a QOL improvement.

Larva is already limited to LOS, so this would in fact be asking for a massive buff. I encourage you to try this out for yourself on Nidus.

4 hours ago, ElecDeathblade said:

And he may be a beast in long missions, but he underperforms in short missions, as his abilities are focused more for those long missions. Making Larva have punch-through wouldn't really make Nidus stronger overall, he would still underperform in short missions, it would just make him gain stacks slightly more quicker.

Larva is already one of the strongest CC abilities in the game, and allowing it to pull enemies through walls would allow Nidus to lock down rooms through terrain, which leaves no room for enemies to fight back. Not only would this buff make the ability grossly overpowered in a manner that would be directly detrimental to gameplay, by your own admission it would not even be a good way of addressing Nidus's problems. If his issue is that he can't gain stacks quickly enough in shorter missions (and I agree that that's a problem in co-op), then the better solution would be to address that directly.

The thing is, I don't think Nidus needs to be the best in shorter missions, given that the core of his gameplay revolves around stacking over time, but I agree that he could use improvements to his stacking nonetheless, because right now his kit pushes him towards solo play due to how he doesn't want his stacks "stolen" from allies when they kill enemies caught in his Larva. The solution I'd propose would be the following:

• Change Nidus's stacking so that enemies hit by his abilities are permanently marked to each grant one full Mutation stack when killed by any source.
• If the target of Parasitic Link is an ally, their kills should also each award a Mutation stack, if the enemy killed wouldn't give one already.

This way, Nidus would be able to get kills much more consistently with a co-op group, and if there happens to be a nuke frame around, that frame would work to his advantage, instead of having him compete for kills to gain stacks.

[LagartoPunkarra]

2 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

Larva is already limited to LOS, so this would in fact be asking for a massive buff. I encourage you to try this out for yourself on Nidus.

Larva's LOS is weird, it ignores enemies that are behing thicker walls, but will go after enemies that are behind cover, making them get stuck in that cover. The punch-through would be just to make sure that enemies doesn't get stuck in those obstacles, being a QOL and not a buff.

If I presented myself as someone that doesn't know how the ability works at all, then apologies, I need to reread my posts more carefully lol

[Teridax68]

4 minutes ago, ElecDeathblade said:

Larva's LOS is weird, it ignores enemies that are behing thicker walls, but will go after enemies that are behind cover, making them get stuck in that cover. The punch-through would be just to make sure that enemies doesn't get stuck in those obstacles, being a QOL and not a buff.

How exactly would punch-through affect cover but not walls? If it's wide enough to go through cover, it's going to be wide enough to go through walls. Given the current restrictions upon the ability, the change to apply here would be to have it not hit enemies through cover. QoL has nothing to do with this, what you are asking for is a buff to the ability's power.

 

[LagartoPunkarra]

On 2021-06-03 at 3:03 AM, Teridax68 said:

How exactly would punch-through affect cover but not walls? If it's wide enough to go through cover, it's going to be wide enough to go through walls. Given the current restrictions upon the ability, the change to apply here would be to have it not hit enemies through cover. QoL has nothing to do with this, what you are asking for is a buff to the ability's power.

How thin you think walls in Warframe are? Most of them can't be punched through by normal means, so that would include in the Larva limitations.

And you're saying that Larva shouldn't even try to catch enemies when they're under a bit of cover? That sounds like you want a nerf.

[Teridax68]

4 minutes ago, ElecDeathblade said:

How thin you think walls in Warframe are? Most of them can't be punched through by normal means, so that would include in the Larva limitations.

About as thin as cover, which itself tends to be walls and other bits of terrain. What you are asking for is a system that detects cover and sorts partial cover from full wall cover, all for the specific purpose of pulling enemies through cover but not walls. Putting aside how all of this is a problem that punch-through would not be equipped to address, particularly as the OP's suggestion would in fact enable the ability to reach through walls, the simpler solution might just be to have Larva just not pull enemies through cover, if even that much is necessary (and I don't think it is)

4 minutes ago, ElecDeathblade said:

And you're saying that Larva shouldn't even try to catch enemies when they're under a bit of cover? That sounds like you want a nerf.

If enemies are hiding behind cover, and get stuck when Larva still catches them despite its LoS restrictions, I would rather it didn't catch them at all than have the ability reach through terrain. The ability would still remain among the strongest CC effects in the game after the fact, and this is assuming a change even needs to happen. While you may not like it to be so, opposing a ridiculously excessive buff does not equate to wanting a nerf.

[Birdframe_Prime]

On 2021-05-29 at 7:17 AM, FacuNeko said:

I'll take the risk to say confidently that nidus IS the power stengh warframe

[Dark chuckles in Hildryn, Trinity and Chroma...]

[Further, less dark, chuckles in Revenant, Baruuk, Ember, Excal, Rhino, Valkyr, Wisp, Oberon, Xaku, Nezha, Mirage Khora, Wukong, Frost, and Mag...]

Okay... enough silliness about so many frames scaling as well as, if not better than, Nidus with Strength.

Moving on.

There is no reason to have a Crowd Control ability gain bonus functions from Strength because, at base, the function you're suggesting will not work.

Punch Through (as a stat) does not work on many objects There are certain that are designated as things you can 'penetrate' and others that are actual boundaries to the world. And I don't mean boundaries as in those walls that we, the player, can't pass through, no. I mean that some of the objects that you could pull enemies through, such as ramps or sections of wall, actually do no have any level on the inside of them and are open to the sky-box that exists around every single room. Condemning the enemy, and any loot it drops, to be permanently lost to the void. (Not a fun thing to happen on, say, Exterminates.)

Those objects do not support any kind of punch through, least of all one that would draw enemies through them.

Side note:

On 2021-05-29 at 7:17 AM, FacuNeko said:

•Nidus needs to kill enemies on larva to cast it again so this is pretty much needed

He has an augment to fix that, if you're having trouble.

[FacuNeko]

En 2/6/2021 a las 14:38, ElecDeathblade dijo:

I disagree, I think that Larva having the ability grab enemies through obstacles would be the most beneficial than nerfing it with a LOS restriction. Take in consideration that each enemy killed in Larva has a chance to give Nidus a stack of his passive, making Larva be based on LOS would makes less enemies in the area to be affected by Larva. What OP is asking is for the enemies that are grabbed through obstacles to be pulled from said obstacles with a Power Strength based punch-through, not being a buff per-se, but more of a QOL improvement.

And he may be a beast in long missions, but he underperforms in short missions, as his abilities are focused more for those long missions. Making Larva have punch-through wouldn't really make Nidus stronger overall, he would still underperform in short missions, it would just make him gain stacks slightly more quicker.

thank you <3

[FacuNeko]

En 2/6/2021 a las 21:55, ElecDeathblade dijo:

Larva's LOS is weird, it ignores enemies that are behing thicker walls, but will go after enemies that are behind cover, making them get stuck in that cover. The punch-through would be just to make sure that enemies doesn't get stuck in those obstacles, being a QOL and not a buff.

thats why i made the post

[FacuNeko]

hace 3 horas, Birdframe_Prime dijo:

[Dark chuckles in Hildryn, Trinity and Chroma...]

[Further, less dark, chuckles in Revenant, Baruuk, Ember, Excal, Rhino, Valkyr, Wisp, Oberon, Xaku, Nezha, Mirage Khora, Wukong, Frost, and Mag...]

Okay... enough silliness about so many frames scaling as well as, if not better than, Nidus with Strength.

you maybe laugh but i still disagree with you

[FacuNeko]

hace 3 horas, Birdframe_Prime dijo:

He has an augment to fix that, if you're having trouble.

waste a slot?

on a bandaid?

that barely solves anything???????????????

i dont understand your point of view

i have breach surge in place of my 2 so i can play defense missions on steelpath, and i work a lot better than wasting the slot for an bandaid, weak, outdated augment

edit: my point is, I DONT WANT TO CHANGE MY 2 BY A HELMINTH ABILITY