Daily standing problems...

[EternalSigma]

Something has to be done about the daily standing cap. it is ruining my friends' enjoyment for the open world content. Sure the cap increase is helpful, however I feel that it is simply not enough. One look at it and they don't even want to partake. I understand that new content will be blown through in a matter of days without it. However the previous open worlds have been out for years now, and I see no reason to cap them any longer. At the VERY least, I would like them to add a soft cap. (By soft cap, I mean that we can still grind standing but at a slower rate. This would suffice.) Some of us have the time to spend to grind Warframe, and the fact that the game practically tells us to just stop when we hit the cap is frustrating. 

[GnarlsDarkley]

49 minutes ago, EternalSigma said:

Some of us have the time to spend to grind Warframe, and the fact that the game practically tells us to just stop when we hit the cap is frustrating. 

Well. Imagine DE would do this there will be threads about the opposite topic and "leaving because of burnout".

As Tommy Lee Jones said in Men in Black: A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.

[trst]

Old or not it's still there for players to not blow through it all in a day or two and burn out. If they hit the cap then they can either work on any of the several dozen other farms in the game or gather standing items (gems, fish, or tokens) to turn in later to have more time for those other farms.

[Surbusken]

I'd just go to the next planet, if they block me. Get all 3 planets up at once.

Though smarter move is grinding for the gated items, that also block you from unlocking tiers.

For instance the booby trap with solaris united on venus, is getting the correct debt bonds - go play random mission you max out standing but then have to regrind for the requirement items.

Though for venus you also have: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Vox_Solaris_(Syndicate)

Which includes "torids" and "gyromags" as unlock requirements. Again, you do the wrong content you do get standing... but not the items you needed.

 

You are better off, knowing what items you want to build and unlock, what materials those need, and then go straight to wiki and play for the "mandatory items".

Another example:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Entrati

To unlock tier 1 you need fishing components. Had you gone done bounties, you will have go out again. Though luckily, you can still semi save it if you don't max by bounties, since you can save the resources, rocks, tags or whatever you don't need, and trade in for standing. But you have to read up and map out the most efficient way, don't trust the developers to be in your corner, they only want to inflate the grind, they aren't interested in your fun, lol. If you take a look at xaku: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Xaku He needs blueprints and materials from 3 different planets and I think also the mentioned gyromag systems. So you look every last single thing you need to build him, which is insane, then you play the faction standing-grind by getting those items, as the primary task, and gaining faction standing in the background.   Though, if I was coming into the game now, I'd probably relic-plat grind skip as much content as possible. I have no idea how I was mentally able to get through it.

 

[ebrl]

That is very much near the top of the list of things that are never going to happen, better find something else to get mad about, for your own personal health

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

This game isn't for everyone. If it wasn't the standing cap, then your friend would just make some other unrealistic demand.

 

 

[MouadSaqui]

54 minutes ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

Well. Imagine DE would do this there will be threads about the opposite topic and "leaving because of burnout".

 

I don't agree with your logic here, Burn out happens bcs of Grind and RNG, Daily caps are nothing more than mechanics to keep you log in every day

[GnarlsDarkley]

6 minutes ago, MouadSaqui said:

Burn out happens bcs of Grind

You say the exact same as me but disagree? Yes rng is a factor as well, but I was merely pointing towards repetitious grind. Burnout can already start after a few runs if you been doing it for a longer time.

I feel this myself. I forma my stuff only when I get Booster from Login or Sortie and after a few runs I already start losing motivation, so yeah, Burnout comes is different ways. If one can grind standing on Fortuna for days, they will get hit sooner or later. But since they are already down the rabbit hole it's a lost fight.

I do not consent with lots of stuff DE is doing but here I think they chose a perfect balance to keep people playing but not burn out. Yes it seems like we'll get punished for being addicted but in the long term it's healthier.

Sometimes we do need extrinsic measures.

[Merrcenary]

imagine being mr30 and having daily standing problems lol

[Tesseract7777]

33 minutes ago, MouadSaqui said:

I don't agree with your logic here, Burn out happens bcs of Grind and RNG, Daily caps are nothing more than mechanics to keep you log in every day

Burnout can also happen from doing too much in a short period of time, because the game allows you to. 

Breaks are healthy. Spamming your way through five ranks of a syndicate in one day is not healthy. 

[Butterfly85]

Heh, back in my day your standing cap was tied to MR.

You MR3? Bad luck, you're not getting squit done fast. At least these days they've adjusted that so low MR can do 10k+ a day now.

[MouadSaqui]

6 hours ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

You say the exact same as me but disagree? Yes rng is a factor as well, but I was merely pointing towards repetitious grind. Burnout can already start after a few runs if you been doing it for a longer time.

I feel this myself. I forma my stuff only when I get Booster from Login or Sortie and after a few runs I already start losing motivation, so yeah, Burnout comes is different ways. If one can grind standing on Fortuna for days, they will get hit sooner or later. But since they are already down the rabbit hole it's a lost fight.

I do not consent with lots of stuff DE is doing but here I think they chose a perfect balance to keep people playing but not burn out. Yes it seems like we'll get punished for being addicted but in the long term it's healthier.

Sometimes we do need extrinsic measures.

I feel like if I play the game until my heart's content, and get things done within a week end then go back to work on Monday morning is so much better than spending  weeks of daily grind to get baruuk and hildryn, everybody say's this game is casual then they all claim daily caps are good for the game which is so anti casual, People quit this game bcs of "waiting simulator", people brag about how much hours they put into warframe without counting how many a hours they spent waiting to play the game..

I'm not saying remove caps from the game, all I'm saying is Burnout can happen if you're stuck smashing your head to walls of RNG and Time gating, people lose interest and move on with their lives, that's what I'm trying to say. 

[RazerXPrime]

Deimos bounties have a different way of handling standing. You earn coins and you can turn those into standing. Standing still has its max cap, but you can earn coins like there's no tomorrow. So you can choose a day to farm so to say and you will be able to translate all that time into standing over the course of the next few days. Maybe they can apply this to to other two open worlds as well.

But ehm, yea if people play this game with the expectation that they can unlock and get everything on day 1. Well... no comment on that.

[MouadSaqui]

5 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Breaks are healthy. Spamming your way through five ranks of a syndicate in one day is not healthy. 

instead of capping the leveling experience of syndicates, why not capping the amount of items you can buy from them ? why is it a thing that I'm not able to play the game until I'm satisfied ? I don't get it, This is number one reason why people don't like maxing syndicates, bcs it take too long. 

[EnwoQ]

Game is in a good spot, throughout the week there always enough players for everything.
Thanks to the daily caps
Otherwise people will only playing on weekend or for a short intensiv duration , which will ultimately kill the game because "how to explain it" e.g. like a bar

[RazerXPrime]

36 minutes ago, MouadSaqui said:

instead of capping the leveling experience of syndicates, why not capping the amount of items you can buy from them ? why is it a thing that I'm not able to play the game until I'm satisfied ? I don't get it, This is number one reason why people don't like maxing syndicates, bcs it take too long. 

Maxing syndicates is something you do passively while you do something else. It's one of the easiest things to do. Warframe has so much content that you'll have maxed your 4 syndicates way before you've done everything else. Does it take a while? Yes. Does it require a grind or actual time investment? Absolutely not.

[EternalSigma]

Wow. We are more split on this than I thought. I appreciate all the feedback.

I understand, and somewhat agree, that all of those who say that the standing cap is healthy for the game. It prevents burnout in some ways and prevents people from blowing through content in a day or so. However this does not address the feeling of wasting time. Just seeing that the cap exists can be demoralizing. I've taught a handful of new players and they all dislike this system. They feel like they cant just sit down and grind out Fortuna or Cetus. However, the cambion drift is more kind. The token system there is, I think, a very good solution for standing caps. I can still grind standing even when I hit my cap. It's just in the form of tokens. And when the reset hits, I can turn them in by the handfuls. I'd like  this system to be implemented into the other open world factions. Of course, I can just give my friends fish and then they can turn them in for standing, like tokens. I doubt this is what DE intended in the first place though.

As for Syndicates, they don't really need an adjustment since their reputation is so passively gained. Just play the game and you get standing. Grab a sigil and do other content. 

As for claims of 'go do other content while you wait' Isn't exactly a solution either. For example my friend want's the Tatsu. It's a cool looking sword, so how can I say no? He was able to get the Hespasm for the alloy, but when he needed the auroxium alloy he needed two more ranks in Cetus. He doesn't have a choice in what to do. He HAS to play Cetus if he wants the Tatsu. Sure he can go do other content to pass the time, but how is that any different from going and playing another game? He is being told 'go do something else.' and he doesn't want to do something else. He wants to play Warframe. The resort is the aforementioned providing fish strategy. I'm not saying that fish standing should be reduced, that's not what anyone wants. I just think that there are better and more entertaining ways to grind standing, but the cap just makes it a goal to reach and quit.

When Fortuna came out, I almost quit the game. I felt like I wasn't going anywhere and I had to go do something else. The problem is that I HAD done everything else. I didn't have a choice. Yes, this is a very unique problem, but I can understand why the cap just existing is draining. 

In retrospect, a soft cap isn't a solution. I think our best bet is implementing the token system into the previous two open worlds. It would still feel like I can grind out standing, and prevent blowing through content in a few days. 

I genuinely appreciate the replies from all of you, and the feedback you've given me. You all have some wonderful ideas and points of view. I hope that DE will see this and understand where we all are coming from with this. I believe a change is needed. We shall see if one is ever made.

[RazerXPrime]

1 hour ago, EternalSigma said:

Wow. We are more split on this than I thought. I appreciate all the feedback.

I understand, and somewhat agree, that all of those who say that the standing cap is healthy for the game. It prevents burnout in some ways and prevents people from blowing through content in a day or so. However this does not address the feeling of wasting time. Just seeing that the cap exists can be demoralizing. I've taught a handful of new players and they all dislike this system. They feel like they cant just sit down and grind out Fortuna or Cetus. However, the cambion drift is more kind. The token system there is, I think, a very good solution for standing caps. I can still grind standing even when I hit my cap. It's just in the form of tokens. And when the reset hits, I can turn them in by the handfuls. I'd like  this system to be implemented into the other open world factions. Of course, I can just give my friends fish and then they can turn them in for standing, like tokens. I doubt this is what DE intended in the first place though.

As for Syndicates, they don't really need an adjustment since their reputation is so passively gained. Just play the game and you get standing. Grab a sigil and do other content. 

As for claims of 'go do other content while you wait' Isn't exactly a solution either. For example my friend want's the Tatsu. It's a cool looking sword, so how can I say no? He was able to get the Hespasm for the alloy, but when he needed the auroxium alloy he needed two more ranks in Cetus. He doesn't have a choice in what to do. He HAS to play Cetus if he wants the Tatsu. Sure he can go do other content to pass the time, but how is that any different from going and playing another game? He is being told 'go do something else.' and he doesn't want to do something else. He wants to play Warframe. The resort is the aforementioned providing fish strategy. I'm not saying that fish standing should be reduced, that's not what anyone wants. I just think that there are better and more entertaining ways to grind standing, but the cap just makes it a goal to reach and quit.

When Fortuna came out, I almost quit the game. I felt like I wasn't going anywhere and I had to go do something else. The problem is that I HAD done everything else. I didn't have a choice. Yes, this is a very unique problem, but I can understand why the cap just existing is draining. 

In retrospect, a soft cap isn't a solution. I think our best bet is implementing the token system into the previous two open worlds. It would still feel like I can grind out standing, and prevent blowing through content in a few days. 

I genuinely appreciate the replies from all of you, and the feedback you've given me. You all have some wonderful ideas and points of view. I hope that DE will see this and understand where we all are coming from with this. I believe a change is needed. We shall see if one is ever made.

If you grind for something this way the game will punish you. Unless you can be braindead while doing it. It's the way the game is designed. Doing other content in the game can be very rewarding because it'll never be a grind. When something comes out I usually have things ready to go because I didn't focus on one single part of the game, but everything at a relaxed pace.

Also... the Tatsu looks cool, but sucks. If he grinds for it and then gets it he will put it aside after he levels it up to rank 30. Then what?

This game play approach is just a sure way to burn yourself out. Don't give in to that. Things in the game (aside from primes) are always available. You can get it now, or next year. It doesn't matter. It shouldn't matter. Focus on things that are there for the taking and easy to do, occassionally dipping into grindy parts of the game. Ranking up open world syndicates may seem daunting, but it really really isn't. I remember when I first started levelling them up it seemed to take forever. But yea, it was actually much easier than I thought. And now that I've maxed them all... now what? I kind of wish they added more Ranks.

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

It's there for a reason, it's a f2p game and they cant have people rushing through content too fast, else it leads to burn out. If you fail to understand it, sorry, but it's not changing.

[Tesseract7777]

1 hour ago, EternalSigma said:

Wow. We are more split on this than I thought. I appreciate all the feedback.

I understand, and somewhat agree, that all of those who say that the standing cap is healthy for the game. It prevents burnout in some ways and prevents people from blowing through content in a day or so. However this does not address the feeling of wasting time. Just seeing that the cap exists can be demoralizing. I've taught a handful of new players and they all dislike this system. They feel like they cant just sit down and grind out Fortuna or Cetus. However, the cambion drift is more kind. The token system there is, I think, a very good solution for standing caps. I can still grind standing even when I hit my cap. It's just in the form of tokens. And when the reset hits, I can turn them in by the handfuls. I'd like  this system to be implemented into the other open world factions. Of course, I can just give my friends fish and then they can turn them in for standing, like tokens. I doubt this is what DE intended in the first place though.

As for Syndicates, they don't really need an adjustment since their reputation is so passively gained. Just play the game and you get standing. Grab a sigil and do other content. 

As for claims of 'go do other content while you wait' Isn't exactly a solution either. For example my friend want's the Tatsu. It's a cool looking sword, so how can I say no? He was able to get the Hespasm for the alloy, but when he needed the auroxium alloy he needed two more ranks in Cetus. He doesn't have a choice in what to do. He HAS to play Cetus if he wants the Tatsu. Sure he can go do other content to pass the time, but how is that any different from going and playing another game? He is being told 'go do something else.' and he doesn't want to do something else. He wants to play Warframe. The resort is the aforementioned providing fish strategy. I'm not saying that fish standing should be reduced, that's not what anyone wants. I just think that there are better and more entertaining ways to grind standing, but the cap just makes it a goal to reach and quit.

When Fortuna came out, I almost quit the game. I felt like I wasn't going anywhere and I had to go do something else. The problem is that I HAD done everything else. I didn't have a choice. Yes, this is a very unique problem, but I can understand why the cap just existing is draining. 

In retrospect, a soft cap isn't a solution. I think our best bet is implementing the token system into the previous two open worlds. It would still feel like I can grind out standing, and prevent blowing through content in a few days. 

I genuinely appreciate the replies from all of you, and the feedback you've given me. You all have some wonderful ideas and points of view. I hope that DE will see this and understand where we all are coming from with this. I believe a change is needed. We shall see if one is ever made.

They have already raised the daily standing cap recently, and another time not that long ago, so I think they realize it can be frustrating for newer players. 

I'm not against having a token system on every open world -- I think it is a good system, and it makes it feel like you can sort of keep progressing to a certain extent, even if you are gated by how much standing you can give in a day. 

I understand what you are saying in that DE has often painted themselves into a corner, and sometimes it really shows. The open worlds are ill defined, available to players early on, but plenty of content in them is meant more for veterans, and now a lot of things are soft-locked behind open world progression because of syndicate supplies you need.

For example, say someone sees Gauss and decides they want him? They can't just grind for Gauss. Sure, they can frustrate themselves doing disruptions until they get the pieces, but if they are a newer player who doesn't have their open worlds done, they need a minimum of a rank 4 in both Solaris United and the Ostrons, and then they need a bunch more standing to get the gem blueprints. Trying to grind Gauss entirely F2P is locked behind a whole bunch of high level open world resource farming. 

In general I think DE should do an audit of new player progression in general, end taxiing, streamline how stuff is built so progression makes more sense for starting players, and overhaul the whole dang thing. 

However, one little thing I have thought of they could do now, is provide some kind of system to let a player spend a little more than their standing cap that day, if they are really close to the next rank. Some kind of thing where if you are within X percentage points of getting to the next rank, then you can use tokens up to that much to complete the next rank. 

As someone who came back to the game after a while and was grinding the open worlds, nothing was more annoying than getting within 1-2K of the next rank, and then having to wait for the next daily reset because I was capped out on standing. That is extremely irritating, and I remember it just making me log off for the day when otherwise I would have played more. If I could have gotten to the next rank, I would have gotten my syndicate reward, played a few other missions, tried some other stuff I needed to grind for... instead I just felt artificially blocked, and didn't feel like playing until the daily reset would let me get over that hurdle. 

[Redfeather75]

I got a suggestion that I think will really make the progression of hubs more attractive to new and old players both!

Using a tree like screen with nodes and ranks similar to focus schools.

As a player earns standing they can spend it in nodes to rank them up or unlock new nodes down a path. Each vendor, their levels of saleable wares, store discounts, additional special services, backroom access, etc... can all be gated by nodes and node ranks. This way there is a lot of progression potential in the system but it is not linear and nobody will feel a tedious grind of having to farm enough standing to unlock X, when all they wanted was access to Y.

Does that sound nice?

 

 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

DE have no plans to remove standing caps that are already in place: the most we can hope for is that they keep doing as they did with Deimos' Token System and ensure that future caps won't prove as problematic.

[EternalSigma]

33 minutes ago, Redfeather75 said:

I got a suggestion that I think will really make the progression of hubs more attractive to new and old players both!

Using a tree like screen with nodes and ranks similar to focus schools.

As a player earns standing they can spend it in nodes to rank them up or unlock new nodes down a path. Each vendor, their levels of saleable wares, store discounts, additional special services, backroom access, etc... can all be gated by nodes and node ranks. This way there is a lot of progression potential in the system but it is not linear and nobody will feel a tedious grind of having to farm enough standing to unlock X, when all they wanted was access to Y.

Does that sound nice?

 

 

Interesting... I think you are on to something...