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Thoughts on nuking after returning


Femuru
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So ive taken a long break of over a year by now and there are some things I just wanted to bring up. To start I still remember when they were basically nerfing ash and banshee nuking capability, even now see ember had a rework after waiting years for it before and thought huh it might be nice if we changed out of nuking but nope. Years later saryn, mesa, and octavia are still apparently the queens of the game and now I just think do they want to keep the nuke meta or not? I mean I still want a frame to be good but essentially most of the time about half of the roster feels really useless compared to them so now I just say either just fully embrace the idea of nuking by giving everyone a strong nuke button or just do away with it. In a player vs horde ai scaling game it just not going to work as you wanted to because itll either be useless scaling or itll be overpowered at all lvl if they base the kit around it. any thoughts? should we go full out and base most the game by nuke abilities making everything feel viable or rework them for intricate playstyles but take alot of effort to do?

Also because ive been gone for so long, im not sure if DE touched the topic or if another company owns it now but if you do please just let me know.

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15 minutes ago, Femuru said:

I just say either just fully embrace the idea of nuking by giving everyone a strong nuke button or just do away with it.

You can put Thermal Sunder on every Warframe. It's quite a good nuke.

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In terms of ownership. Leyou owns DE and Leyou was bought by Tencent last year.

With regards to nuking. That's more of a playstyle thing than it is anything else. Any and all frames are viable at any point in the game. It's all balanced that way. Sure some frames are better at dispatching enemies than others and some frames are better at defending or healing or applying CC.

In the end it's all about what you prefer. If you keep going back to nuke frames and dismiss the others then the nuke frame part isn't a valid complaint, because it is your choice. I rarely play those nuke frames unless I want to do something specific. Octavia is good for affinity gain for both focus and levelling up an amp. For anything else I fid her unreliable and meh.

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28 minutes ago, Femuru said:

I just say either just fully embrace the idea of nuking by giving everyone a strong nuke button

Essentially you can do this  on any frame  by using AoE weapons or a combination of parkour and decent range melee.  They don't have the range of the classic nukers but usually scale better. Which leads to...

...If you haven't gotten into Steel Path yet, try that.  AoE is still the name of the game, but you'll see  less domination of missions by a few spammed nuke ults.  It's not close to perfect, but it's a huge improvement over basic  star chart random squads.

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Posted (edited)

The official reason why Ash, Banshee and Ember were changed/nerfed was because of the non-active playstyle their aoe damage had. Ash, press 4 watch a cutscene. Banshee, press 4 and go afk. Ember, press 4 and go afk or be underperforming on higher levels. Even the evil Saryn has to press 4 multiple times to nuke level 20 mobs and actually play, manage spore counts and worry about surviving on higher levels.

Edited by (PSN)Deeceem
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1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

Essentially you can do this  on any frame  by using AoE weapons or a combination of parkour and decent range melee.  They don't have the range of the classic nukers but usually scale better. Which leads to...

...If you haven't gotten into Steel Path yet, try that.  AoE is still the name of the game, but you'll see  less domination of missions by a few spammed nuke ults.  It's not close to perfect, but it's a huge improvement over basic  star chart random squads.

yeah but weapons are weapons thats a whole other titan to tackle, I just mostly want most the frames to feel they have value themselves but rn it kinda feels like one of those gacha games with ranked tiers without saying their tiers where some are just better versions of another, idk thats just how I processed it.

56 minutes ago, (PSN)Deeceem said:

The official reason why Ash, Banshee and Ember were changed/nerfed was because of the non-active playstyle their aoe damage had. Ash, press 4 watch a cutscene. Banshee, press 4 and go afk. Ember, press 4 and go afk or be underperforming on higher levels. Even the evil Saryn has to press 4 multiple times to nuke level 20 mobs and actually play, manage spore counts and worry about surviving on higher levels.

and thats a fair point that I can agree afk nuking is a far worse design than nuking alone but I'm still trying to point out how nuking can still either be a general issue or needs to be accepted as a whole because as is about half the frames do feel useless in terms of efficiency compared to the concept because of the layout of the game and I dont just mean about talking lvl 20 I mean even lvl 100 and above theyre still pretty over bearing compared to the rest. 

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You will never win. Over 75% of community only want nuking. Best option as you have done is step away from the AFK nuking all together. Or never talk about in forum because you'll just get the heat of the community. There is a reason why many like yourself have left Warframe. The few left is what keeps it alive.

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21 minutes ago, kwlingo said:

You will never win. Over 75% of community only want nuking. Best option as you have done is step away from the AFK nuking all together. Or never talk about in forum because you'll just get the heat of the community. There is a reason why many like yourself have left Warframe. The few left is what keeps it alive.

well thats why I bring up the topic of do we get rid of it or do we just say fudge it and give all the frames a nuke button so that theyre all more viable and not worry so much about it. at this point I could take either or the other but I just dont think tip toeing works considering its mostly just a straight up ai horde mode, all i ask is that they make it consistent on what they want. im not really here to argue with ppl, like i said all i want is for the devs to make a choice and be consistent with it.

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Just now, Femuru said:

well thats why I bring up the topic of do we get rid of it or do we just say fudge it and give all the frames a nuke button so that theyre all more viable and not worry so much about it. at this point I could take either or the other but I just dont think tip toeing works considering its mostly just a straight up ai horde mode, all i ask is that they make it consistent on what they want. im not really here to argue with ppl, like i said all i want is for the devs to make a choice and be consistent with it.

You do neither.

You realize all the frames and weapons are different and unique and are supposed to not be the exact same.

You realize everything is viable and the game isn't solely built around seeing who can nuke a spawn before your teammates. That's a human/ego issue and has nothing to do with the game.

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3 hours ago, Femuru said:

well thats why I bring up the topic of do we get rid of it or do we just say fudge it and give all the frames a nuke button so that theyre all more viable and not worry so much about it. at this point I could take either or the other but I just dont think tip toeing works considering its mostly just a straight up ai horde mode, all i ask is that they make it consistent on what they want. im not really here to argue with ppl, like i said all i want is for the devs to make a choice and be consistent with it.

I agree with you afk nuking is the worst way to play any game. Im just saying the community wont agree with this idea because they always have the same reasoning, its a casual game and if players don't like it, they must leave. They don't care about Warframe getting mechanically better but want it more casual than the updates prior. They justify this with the reasoning because of "grind." Its always the same counter argument on the nuking meta side.

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Posted (edited)

I agree with your but the problem you trying to say need to be more clarify so it wont be miss the point like people above did.

Of course every frame has it's use and every frame is viable because the game is braindead easy.

It's more about nuke ability vs other damage ability or single target weapon vs aoe weapon.

The real question is how single target damage compete with aoe in a horde shooter.

As the current state of game. If a damage ability is not scaling and do aoe damage. then it's a Helminth slot and there are a lot of them.

Edited by BRZZAFK
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I'm most concerned about your "nuke" choice. Saryn is a nuker, yes, but doesn't scale well. Mesa though, well she isn't a nuker at all, she's DPS, and also doesn't scale well.

Every frame has some viability, lots of them could use some QoL changes but they mostly have solid cores to their kits.

If you want a real, well scaling nuker, try Mag or Zephyr with a proper setup. Nova works as well.

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