I am confused about Yareli and the overall art & story direction of the game [Spoilers for Second Dream and Sevagoth questline]

[Nadameru]

To preface this, this post isn't about Yareli's kit or mechanics. I'll just say that DE has done a tremendous job with this medium, and I like that they're experimenting with K-drives in normal missions.

I'm more concerned about the overall art/story direction the game has been heading towards

tldr; It's a bit too much pandering at this point, I think. I do hope Warframe regains its tighter focus on the narrative and art design.
 

• Clash in preexisting context and newer warframe designs
   

Warframe (the game) has pitted us against waves of transhuman factions in dark corridors, deserted landscapes and sterile space environments. When the sounds of ballistic weaponry and laser bolts weren't punctuating the air, there was always an eerie electronic tune humming in the oppressive silence, to remind you of how alien this world has become (props to the sound design for this). It was mysterious and depressive. A lone weapon in the dark invoking otherworldly powers, holding reality in its perilous grip.

Warframes themselves aren't much kinder either. They are supposed to be heavily corrupted organisms formed from an invasive and traumatic procedure. We've all played the Second Dream, The War Within, The New War. A child with autism sacrificing himself to keep vigil against a dark threat. A man forced to kill his firstborn at the whims of a cruel creator. There is a dark history behind the Warframes, these super-weapons built to be the last line of defense against existential threats in a hyper distant reality. So where does the warframe in a cute blue dress that surfboards and draws water hearts fit into this?

Between the warframe that turns the game into a rave party and disengages the basic combat loop of use gun shoot enemy(octavia) and the focus on family drama in what's supposed to be the heart of a devastating ultravirus (Heart of Deimos), I find that the game has lost its footing and the original reason why it was such a fascinating sci-fantasy medium. Its tight focus on mysterious futuristic or deteriorated corridors and dark individuals, now juxtaposed with brightly coloured and increasingly contemporary skins and designs. Appeal to human emotions and personal experiences are good and helpful in humanising environments, but when the actual story elements and art design take a backseat in favour of these qualities, the juxtaposition is violent and immersion breaking.
 

• Clash in preexisting themes and newer approach to writing

Here's an example to further elaborate what I found to be a problematic approach to writing in Warframe:
I played Sevagoth questline not too long ago. The premise was mysterious and tense; an ethereal ship untethered from reality responding to call signs. With my preexisting experience and knowledge of the game these questions came into my mind: Would there be more about the void? How has Sevagoth been affected by this? These questions served to hook me into the narrative and encouraged me to actively participate. All suspense related to the void and Sevagoth was promptly shattered by a sequence involving me pressing 2 and 4 to a person singing about their personal tragedy for 2min30s. Sevagoth gets unceremoniously jettisoned into space a minute after, and I'm no longer compelled by the narrative or any detail it had to offer after its conclusion.
 

• Conclusion

It's a bit too much pandering at this point, I think. It's very similar to Dr.Who storytelling. Too much visceral cute/sexy designs, too much appeal to human emotion, not enough substance to appreciate. It comes off as disingenuous at times, and I'm not sure how I feel about it.

To reiterate, I do hope Warframe regains its tighter focus on the narrative and art design.

I'm happy to discuss this and talk about it. Covid has ruined many plans for a lot of us, DE included, so its understandable if they are finding difficulty in producing content. What do you think?

[chofranc]

Before watching the devstream, i thought that Yareli was fine thematically but after watching the devstream and the cringe idle animations that they gave to her, they ruined her IMO and are immersion breaking when you know what is a warframe and their creators.

[Northern_Psycho]

While I did like Sevagoth's questline, I do agree the song part was really jarring and out of the blue.

On the Yareli part... Yeah, this seems a little silly. I know Warframe has tons of silly and weird content, but most things are usually in the background and not frontstage (Like fashion frame, which is mostly divorced completely from the story or setting). For me, Yareli is just a little, how should i put it... "Too UwU kawaii". Like OP said, the art/story direction of the game has shifted a lot.

5 hours ago, chofranc said:

Before watching the devstream, i thought that Yareli was fine thematically but after watching the devstream and the cringe idle animations that they gave to her, they ruined her IMO and are immersion breaking when you know what is a warframe and their creators.

Agreed. And you just KNOW a lot of players will buy the idle animation set and put on their PinkButterfly-Rhino because it's SO hilarious and quirky, ecksDee.

[Gamer_Auto]

Personal opinion: I like what's been coming out. I don't think Warframe has steered away from what made it so initially engaging. I do think that the main story is taking longer than they initially thought, and they're trying to give us fun content to keep us around while we wait. While Sevagoth's arena segment was rather jarring, I felt it was a nice introduction to how an "Exalted Warframe" could work, and what we had to look forward to upon completing the quest.

Also, I think you're forgetting the Nightwave tales. I'd say those fit rather well with the initial feel of the story. A mad Grineer breaking free from a prison that his own kind locked him in, the Infestation growing smarter with the use of the Arlo cult, an Orokin executioner returning to cast ancient judgement upon the modern world.

If I were a betting man, I'd wager that things will get right back to the dark and depressing stuff as soon as New War kicks off. And from the sound of what Steve has said, that could be sooner than we think. If they're starting to reign in their focus and tackle big promises that have yet to be fulfilled, you may very well get your wishes. We'll just have to wait for TennoCon to see what's what.

[MoonCrisis]

While shes anime cash grab, and definetly clashes with the game, there are more than 40 frames and there should always be something for everybody. That being said, they have zero artistic integrity as they removed Gara's glass armor interaction (the only frame that did this).

So my second point contradicts the first one.

[Nadameru]

3 hours ago, Gamer_Auto said:

If I were a betting man, I'd wager that things will get right back to the dark and depressing stuff as soon as New War kicks off. And from the sound of what Steve has said, that could be sooner than we think. If they're starting to reign in their focus and tackle big promises that have yet to be fulfilled, you may very well get your wishes. We'll just have to wait for TennoCon to see what's what.

I like your point about nightwaves. You are right. Though it is a pity there wasn't much to work off with, and the gameplay aspect of it was a bit dull.

Spoiler

I actually got physically nauseous doing the glassmaker segments. Something about having to focus hard in a first person view did my poor head in.

I do hope you're right about the narrative refocusing once they return to the New War. Parvos' arc looks promising too, I sincerely hope it doesn't devolve into another self indulgent family drama.

 

2 hours ago, MoonCrisis said:

While shes anime cash grab, and definitely clashes with the game, there are more than 40 frames and there should always be something for everybody. That being said, they have zero artistic integrity as they removed Gara's glass armor interaction (the only frame that did this).

So my second point contradicts the first one.

Yeah, she gave me Barbara vibes too. I wouldn't quite call it anime but it was a bit too girly. There's nothing wrong with girly aesthetics, but this is Warframe. You're going to be parkouring through dystopian realities, wrecking havoc with your lovecraftian powers, melting and twisting armies with into pools of viscera; it honestly doesn't quite work with what Yareli (and a few other warframes and primes) look like.

I've not heard about this Gara interaction. What is this?

[Polarwaved]

2 hours ago, Northern_Psycho said:

While I did like Sevagoth's questline, I do agree the song part was really jarring and out of the blue.

On the Yareli part... Yeah, this seems a little silly. I know Warframe has tons of silly and weird content, but most things are usually in the background and not frontstage (Like fashion frame, which is mostly divorced completely from the story or setting). For me, Yareli is just a little, how should i put it... "Too UwU kawaii". Like OP said, the art/story direction of the game has shifted a lot.

Agreed. And you just KNOW a lot of players will buy the idle animation set and put on their PinkButterfly-Rhino because it's SO hilarious and quirky, ecksDee.

I do agree on that the animations are a bit too much for me, but who cares? At the end of the day it's just an idle animation and if someone else likes it, so be it. Someone else playing as a pink rhino with anime idle animations won't ruin the game. I feel like people are taking this way too seriously. If you want to larp as a mighty Tenno warrior slaughtering countless enemies, go for it, if you want to play as a maid-surfer-warframe, do it.

[RazerXPrime]

15 minutes ago, Polarwaved said:

I do agree on that the animations are a bit too much for me, but who cares? At the end of the day it's just an idle animation and if someone else likes it, so be it. Someone else playing as a pink rhino with anime idle animations won't ruin the game. I feel like people are taking this way too seriously. If you want to larp as a mighty Tenno warrior slaughtering countless enemies, go for it, if you want to play as a maid-surfer-warframe, do it.

Issue is that it clashes with Warframe lore. They are supposed to be insane infested murderous creatures only managed to be controlled by void power. In what universe does Yareli and her hop skip prnacing around making hearts and acting insanely girly which only happens in anime fit this lore?

I'll help out. It does not fit. At all.

Not every frame has to be the same. Some can be cuter than others. We have Titania and Wisp that fit thematically with what they represent and still within warframe lore.

Yareli does not fit into that category at all. It's plain and simple. There's a lot of anime fans out there. We'll create an anime frame and people will flock to our game.

You don't care about lore. This is fine. Others do. And this frame challenges the foundation of what Warframe is supposed to be. It's only natural for people to be upset.

[quxier]

When they introduce new female frame there is lot of talks about assets. Some players laugh/chuckle, some don't mind and some don't like. However there are diversity.

Give a frame anime'esque vibe.... EVERYONE going crazy. I'm exaggerating here but it seems lots of players are affected. The WF universe is probably big. There is many different places and different characters. It's not extraordinary that there are "playful" characters like your friendly neighborhood Spider-man Yareli.

2 hours ago, Polarwaved said:

maid-surfer-warframe

She is maid... interesting.

 

2 hours ago, RazerXPrime said:

Issue is that it clashes with Warframe lore. They are supposed to be insane infested murderous creatures only managed to be controlled by void power. In what universe does Yareli and her hop skip prnacing around making hearts and acting insanely girly which only happens in anime fit this lore?

I'll help out. It does not fit. At all.

Not every frame has to be the same. Some can be cuter than others. We have Titania and Wisp that fit thematically with what they represent and still within warframe lore.

Yareli does not fit into that category at all. It's plain and simple. There's a lot of anime fans out there. We'll create an anime frame and people will flock to our game.

You don't care about lore. This is fine. Others do. And this frame challenges the foundation of what Warframe is supposed to be. It's only natural for people to be upset.

Some frames are less violent. Inaros were

Spoiler

protector of Mars people

Not saying they aren't violent but not every frame is "mad Valkyr"....

[RazerXPrime]

Just now, quxier said:

Some frames are less violent. Inaros were

  Reveal hidden contents

protector of Mars people

Not saying they aren't violent but not every frame is "mad Valkyr"....

This does not give a reason why we need a girly anime frame. Wonder what her lore will be like so that she's fit to do battle for the Orokin. It all sounds like the dumbest thing ever. Perhaps if the frame was created by a perverted Orokin scientist who wanted a waifu girly frame to do with as he pleased. That would be the only thing that would make kind of sense.

But yea

Warframe. Making hearts, skipping on one leg, acting girly as only is done in anime.

Warframe.

Rebrand to Animeframe

[Nadameru]

59 minutes ago, Polarwaved said:

I do agree on that the animations are a bit too much for me, but who cares? At the end of the day it's just an idle animation and if someone else likes it, so be it. Someone else playing as a pink rhino with anime idle animations won't ruin the game. I feel like people are taking this way too seriously. If you want to larp as a mighty Tenno warrior slaughtering countless enemies, go for it, if you want to play as a maid-surfer-warframe, do it.

I'm writing specifically about how the game's recent aesthetics are detracting from the atmosphere, the aesthetic and theme that the game has been built up from for so many years. You're right in saying that I can just ignore them when other players use horribly coloured joke warframe schemes, I have one myself, but it's a cause for concern when the game (I feel) which had a very unique design is slowly homogenising with mainstream media.

Remember how warframes very cleverly played on the faceless ninja theme in a futuristic environment. Strange tools, strange armour pieces. When warframe had eyes (ivara) they only had one, and it's in a sensible manner (it's a sharpshooter frame, intuitively the eye makes sense).  Even designed elements like limbo's british outfit was made to look like it melted onto his body, rather than an actual tophat+suit (unlike its prime variant). It's in contrast with this that Warframes like Yareli are a bit on the nose.

If it helps frame the picture, try imagine titanfall 2 suddenly turning into a wii golf. Every subsequent gamemode is no longer focused on pvp but on singleplayer golf, and every subsequent titan is basically 20 feet variation of a golf club. Sure it's all in good fun, the golf enthusiasts among us will enjoy it and tell the other titanfall2 players that they're taking it too seriously. But is it still titanfall 2?

You're more than welcome to play the surfer warframe if it suits you. Personally I think I will try her kit too. But I would like to remind us that there's a limit to the boundaries you can push before something becomes gauche in a composite art medium as extensive as Warframe.

[Nadameru]

But who knows. I'm a man with specific interests and I unfortunately have a bias towards the weird and the strange. Does anyone else have any other opinions? Do you think that a Warframe with a lighthearted theme will help you appreciate the game more?

[RazerXPrime]

1 hour ago, Nadameru said:

But who knows. I'm a man with specific interests and I unfortunately have a bias towards the weird and the strange. Does anyone else have any other opinions? Do you think that a Warframe with a lighthearted theme will help you appreciate the game more?

Kind of wonder what pulled people into the game in the first place. Since it's space ninja's in gory battles by controlling an insane infested construct. It's a dark premise. If people wanted something lighthearted they'd pick a game that does that. It's not that I personally don't like it. I just don't like it in Warframe. There's a difference.

I don't play Dark fantasy games because I want to see anime girls. If I want that, I pick those types of games. not every game needs to taylor to everything. It's just a sure way to lose your identity.

But who knows. Maybe in 10 years Warframe is an anime styled game, much like the path League of Legends is going. And people will wonder what all this infestation and the void nonsense is all about that the vets that stuck around talk about. Second Dream? War within? The Sacrifice??? Those were quests about controlling insane infested constructs tortured by the Orokin to do their bidding? No way that fits into Warframe lore. Good thing they got rid of it.

Next frame will be a Naruto frame with the rediculous Naruto running animation. 

[quxier]

1 hour ago, RazerXPrime said:

This does not give a reason why we need a girly anime frame

No, but it explain that's possible. Unusual? Maybe, but still possible.

1 hour ago, RazerXPrime said:

Wonder what her lore will be like so that she's fit to do battle for the Orokin. It all sounds like the dumbest thing ever. Perhaps if the frame was created by a perverted Orokin

That would explain probably the most female frames.

1 hour ago, RazerXPrime said:

That would be the only thing that would make kind of sense.

No, there are other things that make sense. Frames are not "just" used to kill. For example Ivara is stealth frame. She can be used to do "no kill spies" or stealthy eliminate targets.

Yareli could be like this. She dress/act all cute to make enemy think she is weak.... then she will slice enemy with her water blades. Or she could be psychopath (not sure about proper term) one time she laugh and all next time she is covered in blood. Or she could be body gourd of some rich daughter so she need to act cute and stuffs but need to be able to protect her lady.

There are probably many things that would make sense but HEY it's anime girl! She cannot kill or do "bloody" things (ha ha ha).

 

 

[RazerXPrime]

You watch too much anime. That's for sure. All the things you're bringing in defense are classic anime tropes.

[keTch-uP]

I actually had similar concerns when Octavia was released, however once I played her quest it made much more sense(war-drums) so here's hoping they will integrate her into the lore in a fitting way.

[Nadameru]

Perhaps. Part of me still feels strongly against octavia as a warframe, partly because of how awkward the questline was, and partly because of how much she warps the warframe combat loop. Side note I think the Shwazin was a more appropriate way to introduce player created music into warframe.

I don't have high hopes for Yareli, but I can see her existence hinting towards seperate, and in this case more humane, form warframe production, to explain why more autonomous and expressive warframes like Protea and Baruuk can exist. Newer 'model's of warframe seem to hint towards this too, especially Revenant, Xaku and Sevagoth, since multipart warframes intermingled with void magic are definitely not of orokin design.

Post-orokin warframes, anyone?

[Sloan441]

2 hours ago, quxier said:

She is maid... interesting.

Warframe draws a lot of creative inspiration from a much older game, Phantasy Star Online. 

PSO had a maid, the RAcaseal. 

The circle is complete. 

 

[quxier]

25 minutes ago, Sloan441 said:

Warframe draws a lot of creative inspiration from a much older game, Phantasy Star Online. 

PSO had a maid, the RAcaseal. 

The circle is complete. 

 

I'm not sure how Racaseal is similar to Yareli.

[Voltage]

1 hour ago, keTch-uP said:

I actually had similar concerns when Octavia was released, however once I played her quest it made much more sense(war-drums) so here's hoping they will integrate her into the lore in a fitting way.

Except Octavia doesn't look like she's heavily inspired by Genshin Impact .

[TenTonneSkeleton]

For me, as long as the main quest has continuity with their original aesthetic and themes I can mostly ignore everything else. I just create the personal experience that I want to have in the game. Yeah, sure the floofs, weird cosmetics, out of place warframes don't really fit in the games initial scope buuuut they are optional. Main quest stuff isn't and feels more like the core game to me than that stuff.

That said I do worry a bit that DE is running out of creative steam for whatever reason. I have a ton of awesome frame ideas that would fit well into the game without seeming hokey or borrowing too much from other kits.

And I remember a few quests being really cool - Chains of Harrow being the first one that comes to mind.

I would love to see more fun repeatable non-disposable content introduced that feels in line with the aforemetioned aethestic and themes.

 

[Hobie-wan]

Those with an overly forced cheerful exterior often have the darkest secrets buried within them.

But eh, we'll see. If she doesn't mesh with my play style, I can level her and then ignore her. Since I don't stand around in relays trying to show off or look at fashionframe, it's unlikely to bother me.

[Nadameru]

8 hours ago, (XBOX)TyeGoo said:

There's nothing shocking about her being "kawaii", when she literally was revealed that way. You specifically and purposely ignored that fact for month(s) now.

Yes, this is true. I've avoided commenting on teaser images/concept art/early model showcases because they are subject to change and lack context at these stages. It would be unfair to critique designs when even DE is unsure about how they should exist as a final product

 

8 hours ago, (XBOX)TyeGoo said:

It's been like this with half the frames, half the cosmetics, heck, even certain operator cosmetics are grinding people's gears. I remember the "game is dying" threads because of the Eros ephemera.. 🙄 and there's still people vomiting every. Single. Year. Because of festive cosmetics and how they're "ruining everything".

And that's the trouble with the entire business. We've reached the point where of 'half of the frames, half of the cosmetics' are like this. One-off cosmetics for events like christmas and valentines are fine. Funky one-off tennogens like giant butterfly wings and turbine engines are fine, they add a bit of levity and player choice/customisation to the game.

Once they reach a certain threshold however (like where we are now), there needs to be a certain evaluation to check whether this is beginning to muddy the aesthetic and player interaction of the game. Is warframe still warframe when we have up to 4 players riding on (horizontally wise) hallway sized surfboards. constantly clipping on edges, ragdolling enemies around and launching (sometimes) brightly coloured water? I'll leave that up to you to decide, but it doesn't sit right with me.

This is not specific to Yareli but part of this critique also ties in with a gripe I have against the current room-nuking warframe meta, especially considering how adamant they were against tonkor/rj excalibur/4ash/4saryn in the past. Abilityframes are not fun to play with, and especially with how saturated they are now. They have vastly infringed and taken over design space+combat loop that used to be reserved for problem solving encounters with precision gunplay. Further infringement by 'less warframe-y' designs will not be welcome. That being said she does have some interactions with secondary weapons, so compared to her recent predecessors, she's already more interesting to me than sevagoth/xaku/lavos

i would like to make it clear that I like games like genshin impact. I think they are wonderfully crafted and offer a good quality experience. Simultaneously make it clear that I do not think that being 'anime inspired' (which I dont like labelling Yareli as) is a bad thing. But just like Warframe, (I'll exaggerate to illustrate my point) if for the next 4 years I continuously introduce hypermobile infection-built faceless constructs with PBR models instead of cel-shaded ones into Genshin impact, that simultaneously fly in the face of the character switching, elemental combat in favour of gunning down and mutilating enemies with non-elemental ballistics. (or god forbid spamming 2 and 4 to clear every encounter). It will be a controversial decision and people will raise questions about it.
 

[Bakaguya-sama]

What's next? A little girl Warframe?  

Because I would absolutely love to get Warframe Klee. She won't even be out of place in Warframe considering that amount of AoE destruction she can dish out.  

Jokes aside, I thought we were long past the point of taking Warframe seriously. It's hard to pretend that that we are still space ninjas when we're busy mowing down enemies by the tons, clearing rooms every second with 1 or 2 button press.   

In anime terms: Warframe isn't Berserk, it's In Another World With My Smartphone.   

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

art direction

dude

we had a warframe who looked like a Pirate, and even had a Parrot for a sentinel

that ship has long since sailed (pun intended)