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Melee Nerf Concern


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Posted (edited)
On 2021-06-03 at 9:18 AM, ReddyDisco said:

2Y33.gif

time to make popcorn, extra large

Great build-up in that movie.

Anyway, Melee will still be the best part of the game.

And an enemy rework is what is truly needed.  More mobility and speed and better AI.

Sadly this is both costly and/or would likely involve system spec improvements that would knock a huge percentage of Warframe’s target market into obsolescence with potatoes that simply couldn’t run it, my PS4 included.

 

Edited by (PSN)Silverback73
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On 2021-06-01 at 2:21 PM, RazerXPrime said:

They should nerf it into the ground so I can go to the forums with popcorn.

It's interesting when people only look at the negative aspects of things. It's a balance update, but you choose to look at it from a "nerf" aka "negative" perspective.

No matter what happens you will be disappointed as this is the stance you've chosen towards this. Best be prepared.

If they didnt touch melee and buffed guns we wouldnt be having this conv would we 

DE never buffs anything without a nerf to something else

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37 minutes ago, (PSN)MJ-Cena7 said:

If they didnt touch melee and buffed guns we wouldnt be having this conv would we 

DE never buffs anything without a nerf to something else

Not really. DE buffed all guns by a substantial amount back in the Shrine of the Eidolon update. And they buffed melee up to 2-3x scaling levels back when 3.0 was first introduced, and whilst they nerfed Blood Rush a bunch, Blood Rush was only ever introduced because Melee without it or other scaling mods was kind of hot garbage. So, once melee was no longer hot garbage it only existed to be rule-breaking power creep. Same goes for Condition Overload. It's like Rivens on new primes before the variant splitting.

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On 2021-07-01 at 2:58 PM, S1mplyFresh said:

I think the majority of you (95% or more?) are just not very good at the game.

I pseudo-tested these upcoming changes, and I still wreck 500+ Steel Path Grineer. I wasn't able to test Condition Overload at 80%, but it's still not a big deal. The 5% AS reduction on Berserker is negligible. I am still wrecking Lv. 500+ Steel Path Grineer because I do a lot more than just a single repeated keystroke action. There are 3-4 other actions I do on top of Melee, along with various passive synergies from Arcanes, Operator, and Operator School. Not to mention which Warframe I am using, what Melee weapon, and what Status Effects. In total, there's like 10+ different tools that I use in synergy to amplify my damage output.

There are so many tools and mechanics available to the player, that can help you achieve optimal damage output and survivability. Believe it or not, it takes a lot more than just slapping on 3 mods and repeatedly pressing a single keystroke with little to no skill involved, and with little to no resistance or barriers. This is what DE is trying to address and I wholeheartedly agree with their upcoming balance changes.

It's quite clear that any time some level of theory-crafting, challenge, grind, or skill is involved, the pitch forks come out. DE might as well just give away everything for free with every update based on how many of you behave and react.

TL:DR - it's a 20% change... twenty... percent.

Test Server? 

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well I think im just not going to bother with melee at all after the update.  Put so much effort into my Glave Prime and got it to do 4.7Mil crits with Harrow...and now it does 45k... it does so much less than any other weapon i have its not worth using at all.  

This wasn't a Nerf, it was a slaughter.

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1 hour ago, Demoncushion said:

well I think im just not going to bother with melee at all after the update.  Put so much effort into my Glave Prime and got it to do 4.7Mil crits with Harrow...and now it does 45k... it does so much less than any other weapon i have its not worth using at all.  

This wasn't a Nerf, it was a slaughter.

This is precisely why it was changed.

The fact that all you need to do is heavy attack to throw your glaive, and do that much damage with little to no effort. So you're mad because you can't press 1 button to kill everything?

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2 minutes ago, S1mplyFresh said:

This is precisely why it was changed.

The fact that all you need to do is heavy attack to throw your glaive, and do that much damage with little to no effort. So you're mad because you can't press 1 button to kill everything?

It's a pve game about horde killing. You're supposed to be able to kill everything.

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9 minutes ago, S1mplyFresh said:

This is precisely why it was changed.

The fact that all you need to do is heavy attack to throw your glaive, and do that much damage with little to no effort. So you're mad because you can't press 1 button to kill everything?

I agree it was doing to much damage, but a 98% damage nerf is overkill.

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On 2021-07-01 at 8:58 PM, S1mplyFresh said:

I think the majority of you (95% or more?) are just not very good at the game.

I pseudo-tested these upcoming changes, and I still wreck 500+ Steel Path Grineer. I wasn't able to test Condition Overload at 80%, but it's still not a big deal. The 5% AS reduction on Berserker is negligible. I am still wrecking Lv. 500+ Steel Path Grineer because I do a lot more than just a single repeated keystroke action. There are 3-4 other actions I do on top of Melee, along with various passive synergies from Arcanes, Operator, and Operator School. Not to mention which Warframe I am using, what Melee weapon, and what Status Effects. In total, there's like 10+ different tools that I use in synergy to amplify my damage output.

There are so many tools and mechanics available to the player, that can help you achieve optimal damage output and survivability. Believe it or not, it takes a lot more than just slapping on 3 mods and repeatedly pressing a single keystroke with little to no skill involved, and with little to no resistance or barriers. This is what DE is trying to address and I wholeheartedly agree with their upcoming balance changes.

It's quite clear that any time some level of theory-crafting, challenge, grind, or skill is involved, the pitch forks come out. DE might as well just give away everything for free with every update based on how many of you behave and react.

TL:DR - it's a 20% change... twenty... percent.

Ohh look another Get Gud scrubs. You all boast about your achievements in the discussed game. But you never offer advise or tips. You are [REDACTED].

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1 hour ago, Julia_af_Scaniae said:

Ohh look another Get Gud scrubs. You all boast about your achievements in the discussed game. But you never offer advise or tips. You are [REDACTED].

Prolly an elitist MR 30 with nothing better to do than flex on other ppl. I wouldn't think much into it

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Posted (edited)

my 2 cents...

on sortie/arbitration/void storm content, killing an enemy with melee only using a dual sword "standart build" of CO, Primed Reach, Primed Fury, BR, WW, Organ Shatter, 1 elemental 1 riven (with toxin, crit chance and range or 2 elemntals for viral) takes up to 30-40% LONGER at combo counter 12 and SP feels more like 50%

That is without any crit buffing arcanes but deconstructor and gladiator mods on it (none of the frame)

Also there is a bug that some enemies become imune to your dmg... even though you do orange crits, they take only double digits in dmg (grineer, no eximus) for about 15-20 sec and then just die from an overdose. That can get pretty nasty if you are swarmed by enemies.

Next is the crit chance overall... example from above, wpn used is the Twin Krohkur, no crit buffing arcanes but gladiator mod set on deconstructor prime.

Before the update i mostly had red crits at cc12, now i get mostly yellow (2 steps down!) and occasionally orange ones.

Another example is the Paracesis.. same build as above (cuz i lprefer fast attacks over heavy ones) the cesis got me almost always reds with a very rare orange here and there.

After the update its a mix of yellow and orange.

So right now, long endurance in SP is kind off the table for me. Might be that the galvanized mods (which come in with 30k endo and 1.5 mill creds each) and primary and secondray arcanes will push guns to where melee was before or even higher but for me as melee focussed gamer, this update only reduced the fun i have/had with the game.

And its a long road if you can't afford to play the game 24x7 or don;t want to spend plat to get all the new stuff for all the wpns you like or you just want to test (why is the arcane slot not purchasable?)

So yeah, DE please re-balance melee a bit and up BR to at least 50% per stack? Or up CO a notch again?

Right now i don't feel like a ninja but a street thug with a broken bat :( ...

 

Edit:

Just realized that.... BR has the same output value as WW now (40% per stack) but is STILL a 10'er mod... wonder how that will be justified -.-

Edited by Crossfire78
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5 hours ago, (PSN)WolfieKidd060 said:

It's a pve game about horde killing. You're supposed to be able to kill everything.

That's an intentional misconstruction of the game, and you know it. You're supposed to be able to kill everything in any action game, from Kirby to Dark Souls. That doesn't mean that the process should be a completely mindless and uniform one

5 hours ago, Demoncushion said:

I agree it was doing to much damage, but a 98% damage nerf is overkill.

Think about it. Most weapons deal somewhere in the 100k range.  Weapons like the Bramma are noticable outliers, and Melee's are too for reasons I've discussed above.

If your glaive was dealing 4.7 million damage per burst, then it was above average by... well, literally millions.  It's hitting well over ten times the weight of everything else. So nerfing to well over a tenth of its original effectiveness is just what needs to happen. It's not overkill, it's the amount of kill that's needed.

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5 hours ago, Julia_af_Scaniae said:

Ohh look another Get Gud scrubs. You all boast about your achievements in the discussed game. But you never offer advise or tips. You are [REDACTED].

Advice is offered.....it's just not accepted. The whole point is people that are bad at the game blaming anyone but themselves. 

Looking inward isn't a common human trait, especially amongst "gamers". 

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On 2021-07-01 at 2:58 PM, S1mplyFresh said:

I think the majority of you (95% or more?) are just not very good at the game.

I pseudo-tested these upcoming changes, and I still wreck 500+ Steel Path Grineer. I wasn't able to test Condition Overload at 80%, but it's still not a big deal. The 5% AS reduction on Berserker is negligible. I am still wrecking Lv. 500+ Steel Path Grineer because I do a lot more than just a single repeated keystroke action. There are 3-4 other actions I do on top of Melee, along with various passive synergies from Arcanes, Operator, and Operator School. Not to mention which Warframe I am using, what Melee weapon, and what Status Effects. In total, there's like 10+ different tools that I use in synergy to amplify my damage output.

There are so many tools and mechanics available to the player, that can help you achieve optimal damage output and survivability. Believe it or not, it takes a lot more than just slapping on 3 mods and repeatedly pressing a single keystroke with little to no skill involved, and with little to no resistance or barriers. This is what DE is trying to address and I wholeheartedly agree with their upcoming balance changes.

It's quite clear that any time some level of theory-crafting, challenge, grind, or skill is involved, the pitch forks come out. DE might as well just give away everything for free with every update based on how many of you behave and react.

TL:DR - it's a 20% change... twenty... percent.

This is the real answer that's not said enough.

 

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4 hours ago, (PSN)WolfieKidd060 said:

Prolly an elitist MR 30 with nothing better to do than flex on other ppl. I wouldn't think much into it

There are MR 30s that couldn't even pass the MR 30 test. Being MR 30 or being a youtuber doesn't mean someone is good at the game.

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Honestly I can sum this thread up in one statement:

DE aren't going to nerf melee to the point where it's less viable than guns, they're bringing melee down a notch to allow guns some space to breathe, and they're definitely not going to nerf melee to the point where guns are superior either.

In my opinion, melee has been broken for some time (and probably still is), if the only viable option is "play sharp stick or you're doing it wrong" then it's not exactly the balanced arsenal DE are going for with these updates and new mods, the changes are there to encourage you to use your whole arsenal, even I forget I have a Heavy Weapon sometimes.

Sure, they're space ninjas, ninjas use swords and shurikens and whatever else, but it's pretty clear we have a huge arsenal (Of 500+ weapons) at our disposal and most of it goes unused in favour of the ones that can pump out the most DPS, as people tend to gravitate towards a new meta if it's easy/lazy (See Toxin/Heat).

And yeah, it is satisfying to dice the guy in front of you into tofu cubes, but if I wanted a hack and slash game I'd play a game where that's the main focus or gimmick (Metal Gear Rising comes to mind) as they offer a lot more options compared to what melee currently is (spamming one key repeatedly).

Being able to just slap on a couple mods and instantly hit Red Crits after a few kills is outright broken, bringing these mods back into line will make players think a bit more creatively about which mods to use and whether or not they need a Riven, etc, for a long time Primed Pressure Point was considered useless and it's one of the highest melee base damage mods in the game, as are some of the 120% status mods

 

And you also have to consider that the game is made by a company that has to make some money out of it to pay bills, staff, server costs, etc, with every new grind added it's there to incentivise you to either play longer if you're F2P, or to buy platinum to speed up the process and support the devs, it is a game made by a team of people at the end of the day, if you want to just breeze your way through the game, you've gotta invest the time or the money into it, however, the beauty of warframe is that putting money into the game is not necessary at all, only for stylistic fashionframe purchases and such (even Baro has free fashionframe items for basically free) or buying new frames via the Prime Access.

Even without throwing money at the devs you can still support the game via giving feedback on the forums about your experience, reporting bugs to help out other Tenno, or inviting your friends along for the ride.

 

As a side note though:

In regards to what S1mply has said, I can say for certain some of the comments on this forum are unfounded simply because either they haven't bothered to learn about the game's mechanics, or were misinformed at some point or another, it doesn't mean their concern isn't unfounded, because some changes can be somewhat questionable sometimes and feedback can be gathered to address obvious concerns (hence how the devs changed up the galvanised mod workshop before launch), but there are a few threads I've seen popping up recently that really serve no purpose than pushing a negative deconstructive narrative.

These threads don't even offer feedback and instead resort to threats of leaving the game, etc, and you have to keep that element in mind when replying on the forums, those people aren't really invested in the long-term of warframe and just want progress immediately, every game with a following will have some form of toxicity, and I think the forum rules should be changed to reflect that, and have threads with no purpose other than being negative to be locked, same way you'd want to distance yourself from negative people irl, there's really no need for it.

However that has nothing to do with OP's post, but I do feel like that should be addressed.

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need to quote myself...

12 hours ago, Crossfire78 said:

Next is the crit chance overall... example from above, wpn used is the Twin Krohkur, no crit buffing arcanes but gladiator mod set on deconstructor prime.

Before the update i mostly had red crits at cc12, now i get mostly yellow (2 steps down!) and occasionally orange ones.

Another example is the Paracesis.. same build as above (cuz i lprefer fast attacks over heavy ones) the cesis got me almost always reds with a very rare orange here and there.

After the update its a mix of yellow and orange.

cuz yeah...

 

On 2021-07-06 at 4:02 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

DECONSTRUCTOR MELEE MODDING CHANGES:

The Sisters of Parvos update will bring three new Modular Hound Companions, each with a unique Melee weapon. While reviewing these Companion Weapons, we noticed the Helios-old problem that there’s a lot of Melee Mods that you can equip, but don’t really function on companion Melee. There’s also some ‘invisible gear hopping’ where if you put Mods on your Deconstructor (or Prime), they carry over to your Melee which is a many-year-old oversight we’ve lived with, but are approaching changes more thoroughly with this Update and as a result we’re patching up this behaviour. 

These are mostly Mods that deal with combos or heavy attacks, since Companions do not have these features as well as other certain outliers. As a result the following Mods will be incompatible with the upcoming three Hound weapons and retroactively will no longer work with the Deconstructor and Deconstructor Prime:

Amalgam Organ Shatter
Corrupt Charge
Enduring Strike
Body Count
Blood Rush
Dispatch Overdrive
Drifting Contact
Energy Channel
Finishing Touch
Focus Energy
Focused Defense
Guardian Derision
Killing Blow
Life Strike
Maiming Strike
Parry
Quickening
Reflex Coil
Relentless Combination
Seismic Wave
True Punishment
Weeping Wounds
 
Gladiator Might
Gladiator Rush
Gladiator Vice
Carnis Mandible
Jugulus Barbs
Saxum Thorax
Motus Impact
Proton Snap
Tek Gravity
Strain Infection

 

so not only we got the base mod nerf but also they took away the gladiator boost...

No wonder my swords do not perform anymore 😭

 

 

 

 

 

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20 hours ago, (PSN)Silverback73 said:

Great build-up in that movie.

Anyway, Melee will still be the best part of the game.

And an enemy rework is what is truly needed.  More mobility and speed and better AI.

Sadly this is both costly and/or would likely involve system spec improvements that would knock a huge percentage of Warframe’s target market into obsolescence with potatoes that simply couldn’t run it, my PS4 included.

 

Indeed... and I believe Steve has even mentioned this, or similar, points several times in the past.  That's part of the issue that creates a divide between changes they WANT to make, and changes they DO make in the meantime..  

For example, on top gaming PCs, sure, you could handle INCREDIBLE stuff... but then the Nintendo Switch would DEFINTLEY be out, and the PS4/XB1 would suffer, as well..

...and given how expensive (and in many case, hard to acquire) PS5 alone has been.... not to mention people are still financially recovering in many places from a friggin' plague... It's just not where the playerbase is at right now.

In otherwords, I have no doubt DE wants to do better, but the fruit just ain't ripe for the picking yet...  

In the meantime, still enjoying the hell out of the game, regardless xD

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19 minutes ago, Crossfire78 said:

need to quote myself...

cuz yeah...

 

 

so not only we got the base mod nerf but also they took away the gladiator boost...

No wonder my swords do not perform anymore 😭

 

 

 

 

 

As a melee fanatic... You DO realize there are numerous other companions that DO interact as-intended (read: NOT exploits), like Smeeta, Adarza, etc..  That can still buff your melee game?

I mean, I miiiight change out Berserker Fury for P. Fury if I want more consistency (at the cost of potential speed), but beyond that... my builds aren't hurting one bit.

Most enemies don't HAVE millions of EHP... even in higher SP levels...  So the fact that weapons aren't DOING tens of millions in one strike is NOT unreasonable... it was never needed in the first place!

Melee is STILL godly.  

Also, the Gladiator set STILL WORKS JUST FINE, it just doesn't work on one specific sentinel's one specific weapon, because that was NOT intended.

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Julia_af_Scaniae said:

Ohh look another Get Gud scrubs. You all boast about your achievements in the discussed game. But you never offer advise or tips. You are [REDACTED].

https://ibb.co/wYfxVLf

Is this enough for you? I just screenshotted and I'm still going. This is Solo Steel Path Uranus > Ophelia. I can easily go to Lv. 800+ but that's another 2 hours, and I don't think I have the real life physical or mental fortitude for that.

And why would I advise or offer tips? I'm not down to write guides; you can theory-craft or search up builds yourself. Just know that it's very attainable.

I'm not even using Berserker Fury, Primed Fury, Quickening, or any AS mods. Just Arcane Strike. I'm also using Prisma Shade for the Invis.

Btw... there are players that do Lv. 1000 or even up to 5000. But I'm not about to run an 8 hour mission.

Edited by S1mplyFresh
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6 hours ago, S1mplyFresh said:

https://ibb.co/hgGDG6C

Is this enough for you? I just screenshotted and I'm still going. This is Solo Steel Path Uranus > Ophelia. I can easily go to Lv. 800+ but that's another 2 hours, and I don't think I have the real life physical or mental fortitude for that.

And why would I advise or offer tips? I'm not down to write guides; you can theory-craft or search up builds yourself. Just know that it's very attainable.

I'm not even using Berserker Fury, Primed Fury, Quickening, or any AS mods. Just Arcane Strike. I'm also using Prisma Shade for the Invis.

Btw... there are players that do Lv. 1000 or even up to 5000. But I'm not about to run an 8 hour mission.

The link doesn't work. Also, Octavia.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, (PSN)WolfieKidd060 said:

The link doesn't work. Also, Octavia.

I'm sorry, what?

Anyways... enjoy this one bud: https://ibb.co/7pCr1tM (Saturn > Titan, Solo Steel Path).

I could have done 2000+ but It's 4:30 AM here, so I'm beat. I think I've made my point. Nerfs are not real. Only balance and 'git gud'.

Edited by S1mplyFresh
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10 hours ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

As a melee fanatic... You DO realize there are numerous other companions that DO interact as-intended (read: NOT exploits), like Smeeta, Adarza, etc..

go on, tell me more?

 

10 hours ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

I mean, I miiiight change out Berserker Fury for P. Fury if I want more consistency (at the cost of potential speed), but beyond that... my builds aren't hurting one bit.

yet you used the mods not for the speed but rather the 30% crit chance on top...

 

10 hours ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

Most enemies don't HAVE millions of EHP... even in higher SP levels...  So the fact that weapons aren't DOING tens of millions in one strike is NOT unreasonable... it was never needed in the first place!

thats true for how many.. 5-6 wpns?... I'm NOT interested in those though cuz I'm a dual sword b*tch and they just lacking now

 

10 hours ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

Also, the Gladiator set STILL WORKS JUST FINE, it just doesn't work on one specific sentinel's one specific weapon, because that was NOT intended.

yet you wouldn't bring them to a SP endurance run...

 

10 hours ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

Melee is STILL godly. 

for your few meta picks maybe but not for my preffered way of playing

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