Melee Nerf Concern

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

14 minutes ago, Crossfire78 said:

go on, tell me more?

 

yet you used the mods not for the speed but rather the 30% crit chance on top...

 

thats true for how many.. 5-6 wpns?... I'm NOT interested in those though cuz I'm a dual sword b*tch and they just lacking now

 

yet you wouldn't bring them to a SP endurance run...

 

for your few meta picks maybe but not for my preffered way of playing

If you want to use the Gladiator mods, do it. No one is stopping you.  You just can't use the EXPLOIT anymore.  Stop being mad that the broken thing was fixed.

No, most weapons play just fine with current mods.  I killed on Steel Path WITHOUT using Helios. You can too.

I would absolutely bring any weapons I'd use in a regular SP mission on an Endurance Run.  BUT the difference, and ISSUE, here with your logic is ..  THE MORE NICHE and the MORE HIGH LEVEL you push the game, the more BOTTLENECKED your options will be... THAT'S NORMAL,  That's how PROGRESSION WORKS. 

That's not a flaw of DE's design...  that's how ANY game works.  You don't run endgame missions on WoW or Zelda or Final Fantasy or Destiny with beginner gear, ever!  The tougher the boss, the more stats/gimmicks matter.

That you choose to push the game on SP Endurance Runs, and then complain when it pushes back harder than you were prepared for, is laughable in its irony.


And as for meta, I don't..   I've never been a meta-follower.  I play casually, for fun, for stream..  Life is stressful enough without me manufacturing issues in GAMES to be stressed about.  And even my casual self gets through this just fine.

Stop complaining about the new challenge before you, and rise to meet it.  You can make excuses, or you can make progress... not both.

[Crossfire78]

1 hour ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

You just can't use the EXPLOIT anymore.  Stop being mad that the broken thing was fixed.

yet they left it in for years? and if thats true, why are stat sticks still a thing?

cuz that hits the same corner :P

1 hour ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

I killed on Steel Path WITHOUT using Helios. You can too.

Good for you! what weapon did you use? Did you preproc the enemies with your Nukor or Epitaph?

Did you use Harrow by any chance or Blade Charger or other crit raising arcanes?

Then you're the hero who didn't bother to read all of it cuz i excluded these options i my explanations :)

1 hour ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

THE MORE NICHE and the MORE HIGH LEVEL you push the game, the more BOTTLENECKED your options will be... THAT'S NORMAL,  That's how PROGRESSION WORKS. 

So you progress to a singluar point and then what?

Warframe was always about choice, yet you tell me there is none?

That DE lied to us (again) by claiming they do all to give us meaningful choice when at the end of the day everything is just the one or two meta sets?

And mind you I'm not complaing that i can't use my Twin Krohkurs till lvl 5000 in SP anymore.

I comlain that it is slower to kill enemies even in a grineer void proxima void storm mission compared to the kuva quartak or sporelacer etc (w/o the galvanized mods)

I comlain that they and you kleep telling me thats all done to give us more choice when actually its taken away from me.

I complain that I as a non-meta player get punished and then barfed on by some (~scrambled~) who knows it all ;-)

1 hour ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

That's not a flaw of DE's design...  that's how ANY game works.  You don't run endgame missions on WoW or Zelda or Final Fantasy or Destiny with beginner gear, ever!  The tougher the boss, the more stats/gimmicks matter.

1st simpy not true... DE claims to make those balance changes so you have more choice and more weapons are viable for SP yet come Melee its the opposite...

2nd I do not use beginner gear? not sure how or where you that impression from...

1 hour ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

That you choose to push the game on SP Endurance Runs, and then complain when it pushes back harder than you were prepared for, is laughable in its irony.

I don't, that was just an example? Do you mix up other comments with mine here by any chance?

 

1 hour ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

and as for meta, I don't..   I've never been a meta-follower.  I play casually, for fun, for stream..  Life is stressful enough without me manufacturing issues in GAMES to be stressed about.  And even my casual self gets through this just fine.

cool, nice for you..really! But please make sure you keep in mind thats YOU not everyone else. Your life is in balance, perfect, enjoy it!

Other don't have that luxury...

 

1 hour ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

Stop complaining about the new challenge before you, and rise to meet it.  You can make excuses, or you can make progress... not both.

Again are you mixing my comments up with someone elses?

When did i complained about the challenge? oO

Literally ALL is said is that with the current nerfs dual swords in their pure form and playstyle, w/o using arcanes or tempoary kavat buffs or certain frames, are lacking... and i do not talk about attack speed either, i never used berserker...

[SneakyErvin]

Like I said in another thread. I havent noticed anything really regarding the melee nerf, still killing at the same pace. What I did notice was a substantial improvement to ranged viability, I dont regret pulling out the gun now to kill things, especially the Knukor. That gun actually got better with the nerf and the addition of a certain mod being allowed as exilus (finaly!!!). It may not spread to as many targets now, but with the addition of some of the galv mods, arcanes and that oh so sweet extra reach it kills better now than it did before.

It would have been silly to have allowed it to stay with the same number of chains along with the new modding. You kill hordes of enemies just as fast (or even faster) now with it as we did before in Steel Path, this is because the targets we hit and link to die faster due to the increased damage from the mods and the arcanes, you just need to sweep a wee bit more. It also starts its killing at a much longer range now.

The buff to the crit based corrupted mods was a nice addition too, especially for shotties.

 

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

 

10 hours ago, Crossfire78 said:

yet they left it in for years? and if thats true, why are stat sticks still a thing?

cuz that hits the same corner :P

Did they ever release patch notes or Devstream updates SPECIFICALLY saying this was an intentional interaction? No?  Because they DID do that with most stat-sticks. There's a difference between whether an interaction is intentional and is not. That's obvious.



 

11 hours ago, Crossfire78 said:

Good for you! what weapon did you use? Did you preproc the enemies with your Nukor or Epitaph?

Did you use Harrow by any chance or Blade Charger or other crit raising arcanes?

Then you're the hero who didn't bother to read all of it cuz i excluded these options i my explanations :)

No. I never preproc intentionally.  Never needed to.  
No, I didn't use Harrow.  I used Wukong without any abilities active.  
No, I don't even own Blade Charger or other crit arcanes.
No, I didn't ignore what you wrote.  You simply made a bunch of assumptions about me being wrong, and you being "right", and treated your imagination like factual reality, which it was not.

 

11 hours ago, Crossfire78 said:

So you progress to a singluar point and then what?

Warframe was always about choice, yet you tell me there is none?

That DE lied to us (again) by claiming they do all to give us meaningful choice when at the end of the day everything is just the one or two meta sets?

And mind you I'm not complaing that i can't use my Twin Krohkurs till lvl 5000 in SP anymore.

I comlain that it is slower to kill enemies even in a grineer void proxima void storm mission compared to the kuva quartak or sporelacer etc (w/o the galvanized mods)

I comlain that they and you kleep telling me thats all done to give us more choice when actually its taken away from me.

I complain that I as a non-meta player get punished and then barfed on by some (~scrambled~) who knows it all ;-)

No, see, I'm NOT saying that... That's you building a Strawman that I never said.   

EVERY game has an END.  A LIMIT.  You may not LIKE that there are limits, but that's irrelevant to objective reality.
I have NOT said there "is no choice".  There are quite a lot of choices in loadouts.  ALL I SAID is that AS YOU APPROACH your limits, you are going to find your loadout being pressured harder and harder, which is going to bottleneck your choices.  

That isn't some sadistic control designed by DE... that's simply how HIGH END CONTENT in ANY game system WORKS!   Unless ALL weapons have the EXACT SAME STATS AND MECHANICS, you're going to be LIMITED as you progress, because weaker weapons, or less effective weapons, are going to fall off naturally.

META is not a creation of DE's doing.  META will ALWAYS exist in game systems.  There will ALWAYS BE a "Most Efficient Tactic Available" (not where the word came from, but a handy acronym, nonetheless).  Case in point, DE is NOT stopping you from taking a Mk-1 Bo into Steel Path.  You can ABSOLUTELY do that.  It is limited by its own stats, so you will struggle more than with, say, an Orthos Prime... or Kronen Prime...  but that is just the nature of the tool.  DE didn't tell you you "can't do it". YOU did.

 

11 hours ago, Crossfire78 said:

1st simpy not true... DE claims to make those balance changes so you have more choice and more weapons are viable for SP yet come Melee its the opposite...

2nd I do not use beginner gear? not sure how or where you that impression from...

It IS true.  DE added mods that made MORE WEAPONS STRONGER, thus giving you, the player, MORE OPTIONS FOR "STRONG".  That's a mathematical fact, and is not up for debate.   Could they be stronger still? Sure!  But they are OBJECTIVELY stronger now than they were 3 days ago.

 

11 hours ago, Crossfire78 said:

I don't, that was just an example? Do you mix up other comments with mine here by any chance?

I'm here debating with the examples YOU give.  Don't build a point, and then attack me for making use of it.  If you made a bad example, then own it.

 

11 hours ago, Crossfire78 said:

cool, nice for you..really! But please make sure you keep in mind thats YOU not everyone else. Your life is in balance, perfect, enjoy it!

Other don't have that luxury...

My life is FAR from "balanced".  That's exactly WHY I don't make a stressful situation of my leisure, too! LOL  Try it.  It's a GAME, it's not your JOB.  If you're not having fun with the FREE ENTERTAINMENT PROGRAM, then turn it off and play something else xD   It's YOU making it sound like they robbed you of your childhood, ffs xD

And what "luxury" are you talking about?  You're not even making sense!  I'm literally just telling you that I play casually, not by the meta. I'm not a min-maxer.  How is that a "luxury"?  I have access to ALL the same equipment that you do.  Same GAME you're playing.  

 

11 hours ago, Crossfire78 said:

Again are you mixing my comments up with someone elses?

When did i complained about the challenge? oO

Literally ALL is said is that with the current nerfs dual swords in their pure form and playstyle, w/o using arcanes or tempoary kavat buffs or certain frames, are lacking... and i do not talk about attack speed either, i never used berserker...

If you never used Berserker, then what is your issue with the update?  The dual swords perform JUST fine.  If you're not looking for a challenge, then why still play Steel Path vs other modes?  The majority of the game (read: NOT SP) sees most melee killing SUPER easily.  I know, I main melee.  

If you're insisting that they lost efficacy specifically on higher end content, namely SP since you've mentioned it, then you ARE, INDEED, complaining about the increase of challenge... since you CAN still kill with them. 

YES, some weapons need more help now. That's the POINT.  DE did not want melee to just BE the game, without using ANY other systems they gave us (Companions, Frame buffs, spectres, allies, etc).  They want you, ESPECIALLY in higher content like SP, to use MORE/ALL of your tools at your disposal. 

If you're clearing level 5000 Grineer with little more effort than level 100, then the levels are meaningless, and the "challenge mode", which is what SP is designed to be, is not challenging you enough.... or more specifically, not challenging you as much as the developer (read: The artists who CREATED this work) intended, so they are moving things around... some things get a buff, some things get a nerf.  It's how you BALANCE things.

And it's NOT the last update. They might look at the next few weeks' data, and decide to change it again, adding a small bit of power BACK to melee, perhaps... or buffing guns up... who knows?  

Regardless, this back-and-forth is proving pointless, and I have no intention of wasting precious time arguing for the sake of argument or ego.  

Play the game or don't.  If you have FEEDBACK, leave it in FEEDBACK... otherwise, it's just complaining.  

The update is what it is, and you can adapt or just sit here and whine unproductively about it.  That's on you, not the Devs.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

11 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Like I said in another thread. I havent noticed anything really regarding the melee nerf, still killing at the same pace. What I did notice was a substantial improvement to ranged viability, I dont regret pulling out the gun now to kill things, especially the Knukor. That gun actually got better with the nerf and the addition of a certain mod being allowed as exilus (finaly!!!). It may not spread to as many targets now, but with the addition of some of the galv mods, arcanes and that oh so sweet extra reach it kills better now than it did before.

It would have been silly to have allowed it to stay with the same number of chains along with the new modding. You kill hordes of enemies just as fast (or even faster) now with it as we did before in Steel Path, this is because the targets we hit and link to die faster due to the increased damage from the mods and the arcanes, you just need to sweep a wee bit more. It also starts its killing at a much longer range now.

The buff to the crit based corrupted mods was a nice addition too, especially for shotties.

 

Thank. You. O_O 

I've noticed the same, tbh.  I'm all for people expressing their opinions on these forums, but at this point people aren't stating them as opinions, but they're, instead, treating their personal feelings as "objective facts", and it's nuts.

Actual experience proves this update to be successful in doing exactly what it said it would do.  I really don't get why people insist otherwise..  I love melee.  I STILL love melee.  It's absolutely still god-tier weaponry..  Guns just pack more punch now, too.  I really don't get where these people think there's a major issue O_O

[(XBOX)ScooterLaroo]

12 hours ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

If you want to use the Gladiator mods, do it. No one is stopping you.  You just can't use the EXPLOIT anymore.  Stop being mad that the broken thing was fixed.

 

Then how come they left it in for Vigilante mods? Surely if it was a broken system as they claim it to be they would've gotten rid of Vigilante mods working for primaries, right? But they didn't. They made a dumb excuse to nerf it. It wasn't an exploit in the slightest, they just wanted to nerf melee. Mind you, they did this silently, they didn't put it in with the rest of the nerfs, they actively hid this away from the main page on it. That itself is very suspicious.

Also, you may have been able to kill enemies on Steel Path without it, but was that before or after the nerf? If it was before it was because most of the pillar mods for melee builds were basically bashed down. 

They could've left it all alone and actually focused on fixing guns to be more viable, but instead they did the lazy route and up and hurt melee, thinking it would make guns better.

Personally it would've been smarter to ask for actual gun buffs than melee nerfs, but people kept falsely saying that melee was going to be the thing to kill warframe.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

19 minutes ago, (XBOX)ScooterLaroo said:

Then how come they left it in for Vigilante mods? Surely if it was a broken system as they claim it to be they would've gotten rid of Vigilante mods working for primaries, right? But they didn't. They made a dumb excuse to nerf it. It wasn't an exploit in the slightest, they just wanted to nerf melee. Mind you, they did this silently, they didn't put it in with the rest of the nerfs, they actively hid this away from the main page on it. That itself is very suspicious.

Also, you may have been able to kill enemies on Steel Path without it, but was that before or after the nerf? If it was before it was because most of the pillar mods for melee builds were basically bashed down. 

They could've left it all alone and actually focused on fixing guns to be more viable, but instead they did the lazy route and up and hurt melee, thinking it would make guns better.

Personally it would've been smarter to ask for actual gun buffs than melee nerfs, but people kept falsely saying that melee was going to be the thing to kill warframe.

1. Vigilante mods don't have the Blood Rush effect built in, so wasn't the focus.  They may still be removed, as well, tbh.

2. It was an exploit.  It was not equipped to your melee, but it was affecting your melee, despite being a mod only meant to affect melee to which it was equipped (it's NOT an aura mod).

3. It was NOT hidden.  Rebb openly posted about it in Dev Notes.

4. I cleared enemies on SP without it BOTH PRE- AND POST-UPDATE. lol    Again, it's a non-issue.

5. To bring guns and melee closer together... rather, to bring ANY two things closer together, it makes PERFECT SENSE to bring each one closer to the middle... not just MOVE THE MIDDLE.   They moved guns WAY up, and they bumped melee down A TINY BIT.   I LOVE melee, I almost use EXCLUSIVELY melee... and I'm telling you it's still perfectly capable of killing ANYTHING in the game that it could kill pre-update.  WITHOUT EXPLOITS.

 

[(XBOX)ScooterLaroo]

5 minutes ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

1. Vigilante mods don't have the Blood Rush effect built in, so wasn't the focus.  They may still be removed, as well, tbh.

2. It was an exploit.  It was not equipped to your melee, but it was affecting your melee, despite being a mod only meant to affect melee to which it was equipped (it's NOT an aura mod).

3. It was NOT hidden.  Rebb openly posted about it in Dev Notes.

4. I cleared enemies on SP without it BOTH PRE- AND POST-UPDATE. lol    Again, it's a non-issue.

5. To bring guns and melee closer together... rather, to bring ANY two things closer together, it makes PERFECT SENSE to bring each one closer to the middle... not just MOVE THE MIDDLE.   They moved guns WAY up, and they bumped melee down A TINY BIT.   I LOVE melee, I almost use EXCLUSIVELY melee... and I'm telling you it's still perfectly capable of killing ANYTHING in the game that it could kill pre-update.  WITHOUT EXPLOITS.

 

1. So? It's still an exploit by your own idea.

2. So I guess Gladiator Armor and Health are also exploits? They're not attached to your melee weapon but they still give a boost.

3. Then why didn't they put it on the main-line update page where they posted everything else? Couldn't they just have added it to that?

4. So if it's not an issue, why remove it to begin with?

5. Then they could've done that by actually just buffing guns? And it wasn't just "a tiny bit" either. Even if it was, then there would be no reason to do so, right? Since it's apparently so small it has no lasting effects!

It was never an exploit. Most actual exploits get fixed before a month has passed, maybe a few. This has been in the game for far too long. If that is considered an exploit so is Vigilante, but I guess it's alright for them to have it instead and just make it to where basically no one will actually use gladiator anymore.

They didn't even move guns "way up", they do jack damage against liches. And what most people don't understand is the COST of making them worth while. I could make a very powerful melee weapon with just 1-3 forma, maybe 4 if I'm going for a heavy attack build. With guns most of them have 4-7 forma to make them worth while. The mods they added just means more forma that needs to be added instead of any actual buffs they could've given to guns. It was lazy. Very, VERY lazy on DE's part. 

If it's so perfectly capable doing so much damage, may I, as a fellow Tenno who also has a love for both melee and guns, ask for your build? I like a challenge, don't get me wrong, but when it comes to melee it felt more pointless than anything.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)ScooterLaroo said:

1. So? It's still an exploit by your own idea.

2. So I guess Gladiator Armor and Health are also exploits? They're not attached to your melee weapon but they still give a boost.

3. Then why didn't they put it on the main-line update page where they posted everything else? Couldn't they just have added it to that?

4. So if it's not an issue, why remove it to begin with?

5. Then they could've done that by actually just buffing guns? And it wasn't just "a tiny bit" either. Even if it was, then there would be no reason to do so, right? Since it's apparently so small it has no lasting effects!

It was never an exploit. Most actual exploits get fixed before a month has passed, maybe a few. This has been in the game for far too long. If that is considered an exploit so is Vigilante, but I guess it's alright for them to have it instead and just make it to where basically no one will actually use gladiator anymore.

They didn't even move guns "way up", they do jack damage against liches. And what most people don't understand is the COST of making them worth while. I could make a very powerful melee weapon with just 1-3 forma, maybe 4 if I'm going for a heavy attack build. With guns most of them have 4-7 forma to make them worth while. The mods they added just means more forma that needs to be added instead of any actual buffs they could've given to guns. It was lazy. Very, VERY lazy on DE's part. 

If it's so perfectly capable doing so much damage, may I, as a fellow Tenno who also has a love for both melee and guns, ask for your build? I like a challenge, don't get me wrong, but when it comes to melee it felt more pointless than anything.

Tell me you're not actually serious now, and this is just trolling, yeah?   This is juvenile reasoning, at best.

1. It's not MY idea, but the DEV'S admission/assertion.  And since this is the DEV'S game, that makes it so.  Historical evidence, available to anyone with Google, proves the case.

2. Read the mods.  READ 'em.  Do they say "melee" or do they say "Warframe" on them?  Hm?  "Warframe"?  Oh! I guess they're for WARFRAMES then.  If they were able to equip to a SENTINEL and still AFFECT your Warframe, then YES, THAT would be an exploit, UNLESS Devs said it was intentional (which they have not).

3. They've got their BIGGEST EVENT OF THE YEAR in less than 2 weeks, they packed a TON of changes into this update, and they're doing ALL of this FROM HOME, DURING A PANDEMIC.  Forgive Rebb if she missed one or two things on the initial post, ffs.

4. Because it was AN UNINTENDED EXPLOIT, meaning it was functioning in a way the game was NOT intended to function.  Thus, they removed it.  The exploit made Melee FAR more powerful than intended because it BYPASSED the limitations of loadouts... and thus, it was removed.

5. When I said it "was a non-issue", I was talking about POST-nerf, not pre-.   Meaning, NOT having the exploit is not hurting your ability to deal with Steel Path mobs, or indeed any other mobs, at all.  You can still kill without it.  So why leave a bug in the game when removing it hurts nothing, but HELPS the goal of balance? Hm?

You ABSOLUTELY do NOT need 4-7 forma to make most guns useful.  Get off of youtube xD  Vigilante set does NOT affect guns the same way that Gladiator mods affect melee.  I still use Gladiator mods in my loadouts, btw.  And BRAND NEW BOSSES, like Liches, are NOT the benchmark by which to measure the efficacy of new mods xD    They ABSOLUTELY do buff gun damage BY A LOT.  We know this because WE HAVE EYEBALLS and ALSO have the game on our consoles. lol

If you think exploits "mostly get fixed quickly", you must be new to Warframe.  In fact, the rest of your reply kinda sets that tone, too.  And that's fine, being new to the game... welcome aboard!  But don't come on here telling everyone who has thousands of hours in the game "how it's supposed to be", much LESS yelling at the devs as if you know better than they do about why they do what they do, contrary to their own words/experiences.

There's way too damn much Dunning-Kruger here...

[(XBOX)ScooterLaroo]

13 minutes ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

You ABSOLUTELY do NOT need 4-7 forma to make most guns useful.  Get off of youtube xD  Vigilante set does NOT affect guns the same way that Gladiator mods affect melee.  I still use Gladiator mods in my loadouts, btw.  And BRAND NEW BOSSES, like Liches, are NOT the benchmark by which to measure the efficacy of new mods xD    They ABSOLUTELY do buff gun damage BY A LOT.  We know this because WE HAVE EYEBALLS and ALSO have the game on our consoles. lol
 

Prove it. I also don't use youtube, thanks for making an assumption. Even if it doesn't it still considered an exploit, by your definition or by the Dev's definition. 

. When I said it "was a non-issue", I was talking about POST-nerf, not pre-.   Meaning, NOT having the exploit is not hurting your ability to deal with Steel Path mobs, or indeed any other mobs, at all.  You can still kill without it.  So why leave a bug in the game when removing it hurts nothing, but HELPS the goal of balance? Hm?

Because it never actually helped balancing. The mods are already bugged.

If you think exploits "mostly get fixed quickly", you must be new to Warframe.  In fact, the rest of your reply kinda sets that tone, too.  And that's fine, being new to the game... welcome aboard!  But don't come on here telling everyone who has thousands of hours in the game "how it's supposed to be", much LESS yelling at the devs as if you know better than they do about why they do what they do, contrary to their own words/experiences.

I've been playing for 3 years. Don't try to act like you're better than me because you wasted more time on a game than I have. I'm not much yelling at the devs as I am holding them for their lying. The only person here who is being juvenile is the person attacking everyone else, acting like they're better than someone because of how many hours they have in a game, and generally spitting out points made by other youtubers.

4. Because it was AN UNINTENDED EXPLOIT, meaning it was functioning in a way the game was NOT intended to function.  Thus, they removed it.  The exploit made Melee FAR more powerful than intended because it BYPASSED the limitations of loadouts... and thus, it was removed.

Any proof of that claim? If it's unintended then how come it has not been removed for companion guns? I'm just holding them to their word. It's still an exploit.

2. Read the mods.  READ 'em.  Do they say "melee" or do they say "Warframe" on them?  Hm?  "Warframe"?  Oh! I guess they're for WARFRAMES then.  If they were able to equip to a SENTINEL and still AFFECT your Warframe, then YES, THAT would be an exploit, UNLESS Devs said it was intentional (which they have not).

Exploit: a software tool designed to take advantage of a flaw in a computer system, typically for malicious purposes such as installing malware.

This definition only helps to prove my other points on the vigilante sets.

Also, can you stop using caps? You sound like a new player yourself.

I'm going to be ending this debate because all I'm getting from you is someone who shouts to make their point and acts like they're superior to others because of how many hours in the game they have. While also making baseless observations. That and I've seen how you argued with others. 

Also, if you do reply to this, I have a good feeling you're going to insult me for playing for 3 years and not sharing your own opinion on everything. 

Have a good day.

[Crossfire78]

 

13 hours ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

-snip-

 

 

Sorry i'll stop here now cuz its not leading to anything other us trying o rip our hearts out and devours each other souls xD

Kinda like we talk past each other cuz .. well yeah.. STAHP... k...

In all seriousness, If you, with your playstyle and your loadout choices, do not feel any negative impact, thats great.

I however do feel it and had to revert back to normal swords to get the flow somehow back i had before the update.

Its not your fault that i just dislike any melee other then swords/dual swords :-) (and i do not feel this contradicting with my "more choice" post cuz that was a statement DE's for all tenno and its different if I myself choose to limit my options... if anytiing it actually showcases that a general nerf only hits those who did not follow the meta or found their playstyle, that makes certain values not as important)

DE always treated dual versions in a way that crit goes down and status goes up.

Crit is still kinda king in sp though and if your lazy as I am and do not like the switch-a-roo playstyle that came with CO then yeah... single swords it is...sadly

I personally also dislike DE's approach to remove the Gladiator set w/o prior announcement... just like.. oh by the way we nerfed your melee and all but we nerf it even more by taking away another 30% crit chance... makes me a bit salty :P

[SneakyErvin]

15 hours ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

Thank. You. O_O 

I've noticed the same, tbh.  I'm all for people expressing their opinions on these forums, but at this point people aren't stating them as opinions, but they're, instead, treating their personal feelings as "objective facts", and it's nuts.

Actual experience proves this update to be successful in doing exactly what it said it would do.  I really don't get why people insist otherwise..  I love melee.  I STILL love melee.  It's absolutely still god-tier weaponry..  Guns just pack more punch now, too.  I really don't get where these people think there's a major issue O_O

And to add to this. The single class of weapons that took the absolutely biggest nerf, namely glaives, still wreck in Steel Path like there is no tomorrow.

I did notice one quirky thing with them though, it seems like Swift Momentum's charge up reduction no longer works as it should with holding E while amalgam organ shatter and finishing blow (that is the name right?) work. Unless they removed the charge up cap, which would obviously mean you'd see an impact more easily with AOS and FB since both would result in 120% speed up, while AOS and SM grants 90%.

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

I've never run "overpowered" builds (or meta builds) in the past, so every time they whittle away at the power, I feel it. It wasn't knocking my damage down from millions (most I've had wouldn't break 1mil damage), but it still decreased my output when I really need every ounce I can muster (Steel Path, mainly... and they SAID they wouldn't balance around the Steel Path... right...) So, on regular star chart missions, not much has changed... but where it counts, it's noticably changed for the worse. I also run solo, so it's not a group at a now lower power level, it's me and my only source of damage (my guns are mainly ornaments.)

Doesn't matter to me, that anyone else can come in here and say nothing has changed... it certainly has for me, and I don't like it one bit.

[DealerOfAbsolutes]

None of this even matters because the enemies that actually matter will sport damage caps and scaling damage reduction.

I wouldn't mind lower numbers across the board, all damage increases made additive with Base Damage if that is what it takes for DE to keep enemies consistent in place of whatever voodoo mathematics is used to make Corpus Liches tanky.

[f0ba]

Kinda off topic and bad to pull up an old forum, but what was the recent "Frost nerf" OP was talking about?

[Numerikuu]

On 2021-07-08 at 11:22 PM, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

1. Vigilante mods don't have the Blood Rush effect built in, so wasn't the focus.  They may still be removed, as well, tbh.

2. It was an exploit.  It was not equipped to your melee, but it was affecting your melee, despite being a mod only meant to affect melee to which it was equipped (it's NOT an aura mod).

3. It was NOT hidden.  Rebb openly posted about it in Dev Notes.

4. I cleared enemies on SP without it BOTH PRE- AND POST-UPDATE. lol    Again, it's a non-issue.

5. To bring guns and melee closer together... rather, to bring ANY two things closer together, it makes PERFECT SENSE to bring each one closer to the middle... not just MOVE THE MIDDLE.   They moved guns WAY up, and they bumped melee down A TINY BIT.   I LOVE melee, I almost use EXCLUSIVELY melee... and I'm telling you it's still perfectly capable of killing ANYTHING in the game that it could kill pre-update.  WITHOUT EXPLOITS.

 

^This. People get so hell bent on looking at stats and numbers some times that they forget the bigger picture, or have yet to even see how things perform in game.

Not sure why they changed the Glaive's charge up speed, but other than that? Everything's fine yo. Calm your tits. Melee was super over-tuned. Pretending it wasn't isn't healthy for the game. Could DE have sorted/tested this all better ages ago? Yes. But it is how it is. Anyone with half a braincell knew when melee 2.0 came out that the changes wouldn't be final and knew melee damage was a bit too much lol.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

On 2021-07-08 at 7:00 PM, (XBOX)ScooterLaroo said:

Prove it. I also don't use youtube, thanks for making an assumption. Even if it doesn't it still considered an exploit, by your definition or by the Dev's definition. 

. When I said it "was a non-issue", I was talking about POST-nerf, not pre-.   Meaning, NOT having the exploit is not hurting your ability to deal with Steel Path mobs, or indeed any other mobs, at all.  You can still kill without it.  So why leave a bug in the game when removing it hurts nothing, but HELPS the goal of balance? Hm?

Because it never actually helped balancing. The mods are already bugged.

If you think exploits "mostly get fixed quickly", you must be new to Warframe.  In fact, the rest of your reply kinda sets that tone, too.  And that's fine, being new to the game... welcome aboard!  But don't come on here telling everyone who has thousands of hours in the game "how it's supposed to be", much LESS yelling at the devs as if you know better than they do about why they do what they do, contrary to their own words/experiences.

I've been playing for 3 years. Don't try to act like you're better than me because you wasted more time on a game than I have. I'm not much yelling at the devs as I am holding them for their lying. The only person here who is being juvenile is the person attacking everyone else, acting like they're better than someone because of how many hours they have in a game, and generally spitting out points made by other youtubers.

4. Because it was AN UNINTENDED EXPLOIT, meaning it was functioning in a way the game was NOT intended to function.  Thus, they removed it.  The exploit made Melee FAR more powerful than intended because it BYPASSED the limitations of loadouts... and thus, it was removed.

Any proof of that claim? If it's unintended then how come it has not been removed for companion guns? I'm just holding them to their word. It's still an exploit.

2. Read the mods.  READ 'em.  Do they say "melee" or do they say "Warframe" on them?  Hm?  "Warframe"?  Oh! I guess they're for WARFRAMES then.  If they were able to equip to a SENTINEL and still AFFECT your Warframe, then YES, THAT would be an exploit, UNLESS Devs said it was intentional (which they have not).

Exploit: a software tool designed to take advantage of a flaw in a computer system, typically for malicious purposes such as installing malware.

This definition only helps to prove my other points on the vigilante sets.

Also, can you stop using caps? You sound like a new player yourself.

I'm going to be ending this debate because all I'm getting from you is someone who shouts to make their point and acts like they're superior to others because of how many hours in the game they have. While also making baseless observations. That and I've seen how you argued with others. 

Also, if you do reply to this, I have a good feeling you're going to insult me for playing for 3 years and not sharing your own opinion on everything. 

Have a good day.

Proof:

On 2021-07-05 at 11:59 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Hi Tenno,

The Sisters of Parvos update will bring three new Modular Hound Companions, each with a unique Melee weapon. While reviewing these Companion Weapons, we noticed the Helios-old problem that there’s a lot of Melee Mods that you can equip, but don’t really function on companion Melee. There’s also some ‘invisible gear hopping’ where if you put Mods on your Deconstructor (or Prime), the carry over to your Melee which is a many-year-old oversight we’ve lived with, but are approaching changes more thoroughly with this Update and as a result we’re patching up this behaviour. 

These are mostly Mods that deal with combos or heavy attacks, since Companions do not have these features as well as other certain outliers. As a result the following Mods will be incompatible with the upcoming three Hound weapons and retroactively will no longer work with the Deconstructor and Deconstructor Prime:

• Amalgam Organ Shatter
• Corrupt Charge
• Enduring Strike
• Body Count
• Blood Rush
• Dispatch Overdrive
• Drifting Contact
• Energy Channel
• Finishing Touch
• Focus Energy
• Focused Defense
• Guardian Derision
• Killing Blow
• Life Strike
• Maiming Strike
• Parry
• Quickening
• Reflex Coil
• Relentless Combination
• Seismic Wave
• True Punishment
• Weeping Wounds
   

 

• Gladiator Might
• Gladiator Rush
• Gladiator Vice
• Carnis Mandible
• Jugulus Barbs
• Saxum Thorax
• Motus Impact
• Proton Snap
• Tek Gravity
• Strain Infection

This is all public knowledge. Yelling at me or others that we're "making this up" doesn't make it less valid. 

Sidenote: Using CAPS is to EMPHASIZE certain parts of the post, NOT to "yell".  Same could be done by highlighting, emboldening, etc, but it's just simpler to CAP it. lol

And I'm not putting anyone down...  I'm simply pointing out when you're wrong, you're wrong.  The fact that you're objectively incorrect in your assertion about something is not MY fault, nor is it out-of-line for me to point it out and correct it, lest the misinformation be furthered amongst those who are not aware of the facts.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

16 hours ago, Numerikuu said:

^This. People get so hell bent on looking at stats and numbers some times that they forget the bigger picture, or have yet to even see how things perform in game.

Not sure why they changed the Glaive's charge up speed, but other than that? Everything's fine yo. Calm your tits. Melee was super over-tuned. Pretending it wasn't isn't healthy for the game. Could DE have sorted/tested this all better ages ago? Yes. But it is how it is. Anyone with half a braincell knew when melee 2.0 came out that the changes wouldn't be final and knew melee damage was a bit too much lol.

Thank. You. :)  I LOVE melee, and I've not had one single issue post-update with using any of it xD  I really don't see the issues people are making. 

And I'm not even a try-hard.  Like, I'm super casual, and I have no issues with Steel Path, or Arbi's, Sorties, etc.  Not even a little...  MUCH LESS regular star chart stuff.

It's just a non-issue.  People can have OPINIONS on it, and that's fine, but people here aren't speaking their opinions as such, they're insisting their personal opinions are OBJECTIVE FACTS, which is just wrong.

[S1mplyFresh]

This thread is still alive?

It's already been debunked. Melee is not nerfed. Melee is still godly. Bottom line is: learn to theory-craft.

If something isn't working for you but it's working for many others, perhaps you only have yourself to blame and not the game.

[Butterfly85]

Have to admit, Helios nerf stings given theres no equivalent nerf for the vigilante set (so calling one a bug and not the other is bullsheet).

That aside, only thing I've had to get used to is Beserker being "on kill" now, but you can kill 2 enemies in a second so becomes a non issue afterwards.

Truth be told all my usual melee builds are pretty much untouched as I go for raw crit over CO builds and my crit is so high it means I just see red crits a little higher up the combo count than i used to. Crap still insta dies at the levels i play at, so ... 🤷‍♀️

[Numerikuu]

7 hours ago, Butterfly85 said:

Have to admit, Helios nerf stings given theres no equivalent nerf for the vigilante set (so calling one a bug and not the other is bullsheet).

That aside, only thing I've had to get used to is Beserker being "on kill" now, but you can kill 2 enemies in a second so becomes a non issue afterwards.

Truth be told all my usual melee builds are pretty much untouched as I go for raw crit over CO builds and my crit is so high it means I just see red crits a little higher up the combo count than i used to. Crap still insta dies at the levels i play at, so ... 🤷‍♀️

I guess the reason the vigilante mods were left alone (unless they were just overlooked) was due to them being a low change to activate, whereas the melee variant was a flat boost and not chance based at all.

[Anaktoria]

On 2021-07-08 at 3:29 AM, Crossfire78 said:

Good for you! what weapon did you use? Did you preproc the enemies with your Nukor or Epitaph?

Did you use Harrow by any chance or Blade Charger or other crit raising arcanes?

Then you're the hero who didn't bother to read all of it cuz i excluded these options i my explanations :)

I have no horse in this race either way, but I just wanted to pop in and mention that if you run a standard Condition Overload/Blood Rush/Weeping Wounds build on a good melee, you can certainly run Steel Path endurance without any of the things you mentioned. I soloed 22 rounds of Steel Path Kuva Fortress disruption (before getting too tired to continue) using that setup plus viral, Organ Shatter, Berserker, and Primed Reach on Venka Prime - I used Valkyr Prime as my warframe, my arcanes of choice were Strike and Guardian, and my pet was a Panzer Vulpaphyla, but without the viral proccing quill mod equipped (for a very stupid reason: my pet has pink energy and that clashes with my fashion). My secondary was a Lex Prime and my primary was a Vectis Prime, so no status priming from an exterior source was involved. I don't know if that'd work differently post-melee changes per U30.5, but I imagine it probably would be, as I was overkilling things with that setup. So in my findings, it's definitely possible to run endurance, without using any of the things you mentioned, even on Steel Path.

Again, not saying anything either way on whether XYZ nerf or buff was good or bad, just wanted to make that small note. Cheers!

[TheSarkY]

Im also against melee nerf, this one did not affect normal gameplay but did affect Steel Path ALOT. And yea melee has good damage there are some overpowered weapons as glaive was but thats problem in those weapons not all melee. but im for primary and secondary mod buffs, they need some work but some people like melee some poeple like primary and thats how it is, and you should not be forced to play both if you dont want to, just buff one that is not as strong, because you can play normal game without half of mods but when it comes to high level things you do need stronger weapons/mods. So in the end stop nerfing melee and buff primary/secondary.

[Crossfire78]

On 2021-07-14 at 6:00 PM, Anaktoria said:

I have no horse in this race either way, but I just wanted to pop in and mention that if you run a standard Condition Overload/Blood Rush/Weeping Wounds build on a good melee, you can certainly run Steel Path endurance without any of the things you mentioned. I soloed 22 rounds of Steel Path Kuva Fortress disruption (before getting too tired to continue) using that setup plus viral, Organ Shatter, Berserker, and Primed Reach on Venka Prime - I used Valkyr Prime as my warframe, my arcanes of choice were Strike and Guardian, and my pet was a Panzer Vulpaphyla, but without the viral proccing quill mod equipped (for a very stupid reason: my pet has pink energy and that clashes with my fashion). My secondary was a Lex Prime and my primary was a Vectis Prime, so no status priming from an exterior source was involved. I don't know if that'd work differently post-melee changes per U30.5, but I imagine it probably would be, as I was overkilling things with that setup. So in my findings, it's definitely possible to run endurance, without using any of the things you mentioned, even on Steel Path.

Again, not saying anything either way on whether XYZ nerf or buff was good or bad, just wanted to make that small note. Cheers!

Thats alright but besides the point.

I love dual swords and they were my Melee of choice.

After the changes, dual swords are lacking, end of story.

Other Melee still works great, take Pangolin Prime or Dakra Prime for example... but they aren't dual swords.

 

BR

[Crossfire78]

On 2021-07-14 at 6:21 AM, S1mplyFresh said:

This thread is still alive?

It's already been debunked. Melee is not nerfed. Melee is still godly. Bottom line is: learn to theory-craft.

If something isn't working for you but it's working for many others, perhaps you only have yourself to blame and not the game.

And another Ai Dee Ten Tea

yes certain melee weapons still work flawlessly, even "godly" but you, like lots of others, keep forgetting that there lots more Melee available then the 3-4 meta's

Let me cite a sister...

I'm so proud of your but you need to be quiet now!