Yareli / Pre-release feedback + Initial thoughts

[(NSW)Greybones]

13 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

Everything is relative, but I wouldn't agree with this statement.

• Sevagoth - Neither good nor bad, simply a frame you use if you like them. (Yes, even considering their heavy attack)
• Lavos - Pretty bad IMO. One of those frames that have their heavy damage overly balanced by long and needlessly "complex" set ups. And I don't think what he does between presses of his 4 is enjoyable IMO.
• Xaku - Really really bad at launch, but now he's one of the best frames in the game.
• Protea - Pretty decent, even before the polish she got after release. But IMO Helminth is what really made her good.
• Grendel - Has probably remained the worst frame they've made since I joined in early 2018. He has similar problems to Lavos-type frames, with not as many upsides.
• Gauss - Again, kinda meh as release, but a bunch of buffs later he's pretty good for a weapon user. Really good if you need a low level nuker.
• Etc...

So IMO only about half were released in a good state, or buffed to be so.

Are you talking Steel Path when you gauge a Warframe’s usefulness…?

[KitMeHarder]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Are you talking Steel Path when you gauge a Warframe’s usefulness…?

No, the whole game. Although I don't really value a frame's ability to do the SP. If I did, frames like Lavos/Grendel miiiight be rated a bit higher. But even then, their set up is still too long until you probably get to around level ~500 SP. Where as Xaku is basically just as strong at level 30 as he is at level 9999 SP, and he has way better KPS (and survivability at those levels). Even Protea isn't really slowed down by the early SP, because of the massive enemy density.

DE originally said the SP was for testing builds in other places besides the Simulacrum, and cosmetics. IDK why they're now deciding to balance the entire game and a large chunk of the reward system around it.

[LagartoPunkarra]

On 2021-06-01 at 10:48 AM, (PSN)c1234567890alvi said:

Honestly? She feels like the third gimmick frame in a row. I mean Sevagoth and Lavos are not bad, Lavos is the best RJ pilot and Sevagoth introduced gloom. But aside from that they seem so limited/ineffective in their use and Yareli seems the same. If you want CC, you have Vauban, Khora or Zephyr, if you want mobility Wukong, Titania, Gauss and Volt got your back. Introducing a Warframe for the sake of using K-Drives in Levels seems kinda redundant, you could also instead work a little on K-Drives in general.

Though having these thoughts frustrates me to no end, since I really like her design and her aqua blades are the closest thing we probably ever get to Vergils summoned swords...

Well, that was bound to happen as more Warframes are introduced, some abilities overlapping with other Warframes abilities.

Still, I like her design, concept and, of what I seen, gameplay, even if the K-Drive she has can be a bit clunky it won't stop me of having fun when I get her.

[Tesseract7777]

I think it is interesting how short sighted some people are being. 

This is the next logical step towards having kdrives in regular tileset missions, and if you haven't seen the potential yet there, you have completely ignored kdrives and their mods. 

Just check out the mods "Quick Escape" and "Juice" and tell me you still wouldn't be interested in having them in missions as a utility tool if nothing else. 

Then just give the damage mods for kdrives some decent scaling or inflate their numbers to something that would do something, and kdrives could be far more than just a mobility tool. 

They could be another part of your overall arsenal in regular missions. Some already use them this way in open world missions, like using them against Eidolons to get quick invuln and get back some energy with a couple tricks if they need, saving resources on pads. 

[Birdframe_Prime]

5 hours ago, selig_fay said:

The problem is that the defense maps are quite large even in narrow places.

You would think that, but there's a funny thing that DE did when designing their tile-sets...

All the doors have the same width and clearance for Warframes, at minimum, and get larger. Every walking space has limited sight-lines, but is always wide enough for a player character to move down one side to avoid something on the other.

While some tile sets have narrow corridors or low ceilings, less and less have them over time, and more and more reworked tile sets have much larger areas to work with and connect to other tiles with.

Defense tiles might appear to have more space due to their arena-like construction, but with the railings, overhead walkways, line-of-sight blockers for enemies to hide behind... it's only slightly more generous than any other tile in the game.

For example, many people know me as a Zephyr player. Guess what I did when they changed her last, buffing the base damage of Dive Bomb? I took a Target Fixation build to the Kuva Fortress, with all its winding passages and tiny corners. I maintained my combo with that mod for well over an hour while moving around to use the Kuva Towers.

If you think that Yareli looks unweildy for the spaces we move in, try bunny-hopping that Target Fixation build around those spaces with less than 2 seconds at a time on the ground. It's surprisingly possible.

I think the size of the model is going to be offset by the size of the collision box. More-over, this:

No ragdoll for collisions, even if they're hard enough to knock you off.

[Veknanita]

1) This ability is meh, imo it would be better if we could place the bubbles where we want so we can control choke points or whatever.

2) A mess. Try using it on kuba tile sets or anything other than open worlds. Also it appears that it only has 5k damage pool (maybe more if we can mode it but who knows). So yeah 5k even with damage reduction wont get you anywhere on SP so good luck with that.

3) This seems alright but the verticality of it has me worried.

4) Terrible, its just like they took the worst parts of og Zephyr's ultimate and called it a day. The last part were the enemies are blown away its ridiculous and goes against the ability itself rendering it useless (unless only the dead enemies are the ones flying away and the live ones remain at the bottom of the cyclone).

Just some quick thoughts but again, this is not finished work and we havent even tried her so this may all change. All I am saying is that her kit has room for improvement.

 

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

10 hours ago, SuperSmog said:

Ability looks solid. ... Ability looks #*!%ing dope. ... Looks good for the most part

16 minutes ago, Veknanita said:

This ability is meh ... A mess. ... Terrible

There are two kinds of people.

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

Pre-release feedback doesn't make sense to me. So many abilities have interactions and hidden multipliers that you have to test out yourself, and we don't know enough about Yareli's kit to actually judge it.

Imagine how stupid I'd look if I said a frame was complete garbage without even owning them, based off of watching a YouTube video where someone played the frame for one mission.

[quxier]

35 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

No ragdoll for collisions, even if they're hard enough to knock you off.

I wonder what Pablo meant by "if you do"... if we dance or something?

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

41 minutes ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

Imagine how stupid I'd look if I said a frame was complete garbage without even owning them, based off of watching a YouTube video where someone played the frame for one mission.

For one mission where you're not told exactly what the ability does, how it scales, if it has any maximums, and so on. That's devstreams for you. Who would've thought that Gloom would be able to reach 95% slow?

I don't blame them, though. The balance might not be final, and it'd probably be a snoozefest to hear about each individual detail. 

 

[Kitsushadow]

It's disturbing that so many people seem to be hung up on the idea of modern concepts and references showing up in a game which is set (roughly) ten thousand or so years in the future.

Bear in mind that from a storytelling standpoint, you have to make what you write relatable to the reader. It doesn't matter if your book or movie or whatever is filled with incomprehensible gibberish and made-up slang terms. If no one can follow it, and no one wants to get invested in the character's issues and background, the reader won't care one way or another what happens to those involved.

So, do the Warframes and game world make references to things in our own world today? Absolutely. Because we can't be expected to care about a social issue involving semi-sentient plankton growing on an unrecognizable planet cultivated by strange, barely humanoid cyborgs. But we can be expected to care about a cloned human army building a bioweapon to destroy the rainforests of Earth, while we pilot mechanized human weapons to stop them. By using references we can connect with, the story means more to us, and that gets us engaged.

So, yes. There are references to current culture in the game. They're there to enhance your ability to connect to the game and care about the characters. Move on. :)

[(NSW)Greybones]

8 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

DE originally said the SP was for testing builds in other places besides the Simulacrum, and cosmetics. IDK why they're now deciding to balance the entire game and a large chunk of the reward system around it.

Huh. What makes you say that they’re balancing the game and a large chunk of the reward system around Steel Path?

[Tesseract7777]

4 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Huh. What makes you say that they’re balancing the game and a large chunk of the reward system around Steel Path?

It's just typical forum over-dramatics. 

[KitMeHarder]

13 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Huh. What makes you say that they’re balancing the game and a large chunk of the reward system around Steel Path?

• It has already gone way past what they stated it would be, adding umbral forma, exclusive mods, rivens, endo, etc... And it remains the best place to grind kuva (basically the only thing a lot of vets do) despite many nerfs.
• This gun vs melee discussion spawned from how weapons preform in SP. Of which the devs used a meme video from Shy to bring this to the communities attention. Nerfing melee yet again, because they for some reason felt like nerfing it in 2019... but they went about it the wrong way (melee 3.0 removed the niches guns used to have), so might as well do it again I guess.
• Etc...

[Tesseract7777]

7 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

• It has already gone way past what they stated it would be, adding umbral forma, exclusive mods, rivens, endo, etc... And it remains the best place to grind kuva (basically the only thing a lot of vets do) despite many nerfs.
• This gun vs melee discussion spawned from how weapons preform in SP. Of which the devs used a meme video from Shy to bring this to the communities attention. Nerfing melee yet again, because they for some reason felt like nerfing it in 2019... but they went about it the wrong way (melee 3.0 removed the niches guns used to have), so might as well do it again I guess.
• Etc...

I am not really sure that is what they said. I mean, yes SP videos from Reb/Shy did make them think they need to act, but just because SP showed the disparity between them (guns versus melee), doesn't mean they are now balancing the game around SP. 

And as for the first part, of course it is going farther than they first said, because people want it to. People still want more SP stuff. Those with lots of gear want to start off against stronger enemies. It doesn't mean DE is now balancing for SP. 

 

[(NSW)Greybones]

13 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

• It has already gone way past what they stated it would be, and it remains the best place to grind kuva (basically the only thing a lot of vets do) despite many nerfs.
• This gun vs melee discussion spawned from how weapons preform in SP. Of which the devs used a meme video from Shy to bring this to the communities attention. Nerfing melee yet again, because they for some reason felt like nerfing it in 2019... but they went about it the wrong way (melee 3.0 removed the niches guns used to have), so might as well do it again I guess.
• Etc...

Hmm. That "Etc" might need expanding. I can see how the talk about melee performance might have come from SP, but I can say that even with all the mods removed, melee is killing way more effectively than guns. If their nerfing of melee trickles down throughout the rest of the game, it feels like that's a pleasant cross-game balance pass, rather than a SP specific one (though that'd depend on how they nerf it).

I'm not sure I'd say that a large chunk of the reward system is being balanced around SP. Is there something I won't be able to get from non-SP stuff (what are these exclusive mods)? Because I find my challenge outside of SP, and thus will probably not engage in it very much. (I get this is going a little off-topic, so this'll most likely be my last question on the matter)

edit: I see you made an edit to your post, so I'll update my response to reflect it 👍

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

33 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Huh. What makes you say that they’re balancing the game and a large chunk of the reward system around Steel Path?

 

people complain not enough good rewards in SP shop.

DE responds by putting better things in SP shop.

when some items have SP as best loot source (Umbra) => larger chunk of rewards system is now based on SP.

 

some people wanted it that way. some people want SP to stay with only unimportant rewards (optional)

can't be both.

 

as time passes its inevitable that more good loot will be available in SP to keep it relevant. power creep

[(NSW)Greybones]

1 minute ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

 

people complain not enough good rewards in SP shop.

DE responds by putting better things in SP shop.

when some items have SP as best loot source (Umbra) => larger chunk of rewards system is now based on SP.

 

some people wanted it that way. some people want SP to stay with only unimportant rewards (optional)

can't be both.

 

as time passes its inevitable that more good loot will be available in SP to keep it relevant. power creep

Maybe we have different ideas of what "reward system" means 🤔

I'm coming from the angle of "What rewards can I only get from SP"

I think you're coming from the angle of "Where can I most effectively get rewards"?

[KitMeHarder]

20 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I am not really sure that is what they said.

You can look up when they pitched it. It was just meant to be for some cosmetics, because Scott hates the simulacrum, and a sense of "end game" was not supposed to be found there.

20 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

doesn't mean they are now balancing the game around SP.

It does, because otherwise our guns don't need to do more damage. Unless they're adding mods that make the guns like the Rubico (truly) multi-target, with almost no downtime from reloading, having the gun hit harder isn't going to accomplish anything in the base game.

20 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

because people want it to.

People are just there for the kuva, and that won't change after the update. The point is the SP was meant to have very little reward past cosmetics, giving people that already did pointless endurance runs the means to do it faster.

16 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

If Kuva is the only valid reward, I wouldn't say that a large chunk of the reward system is being balanced around SP. Is there something I won't be able to get from non-SP stuff?

I edited my other post, but I guess you're too fast. But with kuva there is the only way to farm umbral forma, one of only three ways to get rivens, the "new" Cadus weapon, the new shotgun recoil mod will be exclusive to SP, as will a large chunk of the new gun mods DE is using to balance gun vs melee, etc...

[(PSN)Vexx757]

Tbh it`s his opinion and it`s just one person, people have a right to give an opinion based on what they have seen. I do the same thing and people say to me "don`t judge before you get the frame" and I keep on saying "I still going to do it anyways" remember ppl talking about Garuda and Rev`s 4th is the reason why it got changed and their 4th are way better than the 1st concept.

So if ppl want to give their opinion on something before playing, leave them along and let them do it coz if ppl were prasing a new frame and saying it was good, ppl wouldn't be saying anything to them.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

2 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I think you're coming from the angle of "Where can I most effectively get rewards"?

Yes, well in a grind focused game, efficiency is very relevant.

so the SP issue matters.

[(NSW)Greybones]

9 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

Yes, well in a grind focused game, efficiency is very relevant.

so the SP issue matters.

Ick.

Been a good chat though. I've de-railed this enough 👍

(also, it seems this topic was merged)

[Perisie]

If I were to offer a suggestion based on what we know so far to make her k drive more usable in normal maps, it'd be this:

1. Remove stagger/ragdoll when you run into objects entirely. While we're at it, remove stagger from archwing also. It isn't fun, it's incredibly annoying.

2. While riding Merulina, pressing melee dismounts like normal, but pressing 2 launches Yareli in a bullet jump in the direction you're facing. I feel like this would help a lot with navigating the narrow sections, press 2 to launch through them then hit 2 again to hop right back on the board.

[PsiWarp]

K-Drive aside, the rest of the surface value of Yareli's other abilities leave me wanting for more.

Wishlist:

Sea Snares - Ability Strength to affect globule count. Let weapons + Aquablades burst the bubbles on the ensnared enemy ala Spores to do AoE stagger and Gas damage with procs.

Aquablades - each blade (I counted around 3?) deals damage and proc chance on hit with a chance to stagger. Equipped melee damage mods can affect Aquablades' damage and damage type to proc other Elemental status. Reactivate to send the ring of blades flying toward the reticle for some distance.

Cyclone Strike - living enemies are clustered up at the bottom of the spiral when this ability ends. Dead bodies fly away still for hilarity. Damage is per tick, made of both Magnetic and Corrosive, can proc. Tap for the current fast-cast version. Hold to channel and sustain the water geyser dealing damage per tick and draining energy per second, deactivate with another tap to collapse it.

[selig_fay]

8 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

No ragdoll for collisions, even if they're hard enough to knock you off.

This is a very vague description. You can make no ragdoll with mods or abilities. The problem is that k-drive will be canceled anyway. If pablo means that k-drive won't be canceled, then that sounds good to many players. But this is basically a philosophical question. It looks now like we need to nerf all the weaknesses for this to work. Although, they just might just do some heavy collision damage, since k-drive has hp. It's funny that the Titania experience already has some solutions.