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Damage 2.0 And Armor 2.0, What Are They?


TheLoneNinja
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I have heard both of these mentioned, referenced, and discussed recently on the forum and I have little to no idea what they are. I am still moderately new to Warframe, been playing for about a month, but at the same time a very loyal player and an active member of the community. So, I would assume it was at some point mentioned in one of the live stream, although I do not know which one to look in! Considering that all the life's stream are usualy 1-2 hours long I simply don't have time to watch them all just to look for the answer to this one question.

So, if someone knows what these are please explain them and their significants to me. If you do happen to know which life stream and (preferably) the time they talk about the subject please leave that below.

Thank you for your time,

-TheLoneNinja

Edited by TheLoneNinja
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armor now is crazy high in the higher mob levels, making armor ignore damage the only viable weapons (serrated, AP, poison, physics impact).

 

Also, weapon mod loadouts are either rainbow or max crit at this point. 

 

The damage 2.0 will allow different elementals to produce a secondary elemental (random example: electricity and fire also produces blast damage).

 

There's a picture of it on reddit, on the latest livestream, and in the design council.

 

Armor 2.0 will deal with the crazy enemy armor in high levels.

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Alrighty.

 

The biggest problem in Warframe right now is that enemies gain Armour as they level up. This creates a huge gap between weapons that ignore Armour and those that don't. Once you hit the higher level missions there just aren't more than a handful of weapons that remain viable.

 

Armour 2.0 (or as it is now called Damage 2.0) was first simply going to reduce Armour scaling on mobs - hence Armour 2.0. However, DE went further and decided to rework all the damage types and Armour at the same time - hence Damage 2.0.'

 

We don't really know much more than that right now.

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It is a rework to the current armor and damage systems in the game. Currently things like armor scale far too well in to the end game (for enemies, not the players) and it is what makes anything that does not do AP (armor piercing) damage be considered bad or underpowered.

 

DE has talked about fixing it a bit now but have seem to have gone silent about the whole thing as it was meant to go live at the start of Update 10.

 

The importance of the changes is that weapons that do bullet (normal) damage will scale in to the end-game and AP weapons will only scale against high armored enemies. Also melees should feel less like you're hitting things with a wet noodle.

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I have heard both of these mentioned, referenced, and discussed recently on the forum and I have little to no idea what they are. I am still moderately new to Warframe, been playing for about a month, but at the same time a very loyal player and an active member of the community. So, I would assume it was at some point mentioned in one of the live stream, although I do not know which one to look in! Considering that all the life's stream are usualy 1-2 hours long I simply don't have time to watch them all just to look for the answer to this one question.

So, if someone knows what these are please explain them and their significants to me. If you do happen to know which life stream and (preferably) the time they talk about the subject please leave that below.

Thank you for your time,

-TheLoneNinja

When people refer to specifics about armor 2.0 and damage 2.0, they're usually referring to the charts that were released in the council.

Basically, to understand the new system, you have to understand why it was necessary:

Currently, in this game armor scales upward with enemy level exponentially, meaning that at higher levels (above level 70 or thereabouts), weapons that ignore armor in some fashion (ie acrid, physics impact weapons like kunai and gremlins, anything that does serrated blade damage, etc) become dominant. At the highest levels this game supports naturally, T3 void defense/survival, other weapons will generally do 1s and 2s.

Meaning there's no reason to use the lion's share of weapons in high level play.

There's another issue in that currently there are only two 'viable' builds - either a crit build for certain guns (ie Soma), or a 'rainbow' build that has one of every element. This is also something that damage 2.0 is fixing.

Armor 2.0 and damage 2.0 is the system that DE's implementing to rectify this.

First, armor no longer scales exponentially. Second, elemental damage is now operating off a proc-based system, one that appears on first glance similar to what they have in Borderlands or Mass Effect 3. Damage 2.0 is also making it so that elements will combine for new effects and effectiveness vs different targets.

The example given is fire + cold = blast, losing out on the damage bonus vs infested and shields to gain AOE and awesomeness. It generally looks pretty snazzy and should, in theory, help contribute to build variety. Currently some enemies take bonus damage from AP or fire/blade, but the new system is turning this variety up to the max.

To go along with these new systems, nearly every weapon in the game will be getting a balance pass to fit in with the new system at some point.

So yeah. That's what's coming, probably in U11.

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armor now is crazy high in the higher mob levels, making armor ignore damage the only viable weapons (serrated, AP, poison, physics impact).

 

Also, weapon mod loadouts are either rainbow or max crit at this point. 

 

The damage 2.0 will allow different elementals to produce a secondary elemental (random example: electricity and fire also produces blast damage).

 

There's a picture of it on reddit, on the latest livestream, and in the design council.

 

Armor 2.0 will deal with the crazy enemy armor in high levels.

  

Alrighty.

 

The biggest problem in Warframe right now is that enemies gain Armour as they level up. This creates a huge gap between weapons that ignore Armour and those that don't. Once you hit the higher level missions there just aren't more than a handful of weapons that remain viable.

 

Armour 2.0 (or as it is now called Damage 2.0) was first simply going to reduce Armour scaling on mobs - hence Armour 2.0. However, DE went further and decided to rework all the damage types and Armour at the same time - hence Damage 2.0.'

 

We don't really know much more than that right now.

What level (number) planet and/or level name are considered "higher levels"?

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Guest Shibboleet

  

What level (number) planet and/or level name are considered "higher levels"?

When you hit wave 85 on a defense or 1 hour on a survival you hit levels 200+

At around level 500 you start hitting 99% armor

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What kind of gear are you people using to get that high!?!?!?!

(vs. infested) get a vauban with bastille, nova, banshee and +1 (saryn)...

vauban uses bastille, nova either spamming antimatter drop or mprime, banshe keeps her sonar up and the + 1 is spamming aoe (saryn would do venom)

+ ap weapons

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(vs. infested) get a vauban with bastille, nova, banshee and +1 (saryn)...

vauban uses bastille, nova either spamming antimatter drop or mprime, banshe keeps her sonar up and the + 1 is spamming aoe (saryn would do venom)

+ ap weapons

 

Wave 85 and 1hour on survival still seems a bit excessive.  What are the rewards for a wave 85 defense? Or the 1 hour mark on a survival?

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There are no specific rewards for wave 85 or 1 hour of survival, only those you can get for wave 5 and 5 minutes as well. But we do it, because we can.

 

 

 

I need to up my game!!  I start getting tired and running out of steam at around wave 30 or 35-min mark...  

 

 

Guess I need more practice!!

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i did some 1h+ defense runs with clanmates but its really no fun at all for us... it was just to come as far as we could...

i think my personal record is around 45min+ on some survival maps... and its definetly more fun those defense missions because you can run around freely... and i dont wanna talk about those rewards... they are crappy as helll and not effectiv as playing 3 times 15min... -.-

 

i dont know what we are allowed to post about amor 2.0/dmg 2.0 but lets say they changing the whole dmg system, because the amor rating scales to high and the ap dmg type is superior over the other "elements" ... that will change...

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What kind of gear are you people using to get that high!?!?!?!

 

First, few people consistently bother with doing defense or survival that high. The armor is simply so bad, I would discourage trying anything like that until the new armor system, which should make that kind of stuff more interesting.

 

Endgame (imo) is characterized by a few things:

- 100+ level mobs

- 30+ minutes survival

- 50+ waves defense

- Buying weapons JUST to max them out (ie, heat dagger or ceramic dagger)

 

I'm on the edge of going into endgame, as I don't really bother doing all the high level stuff, and I just try to rank up as many weapons as possible. I repurchased the sicarus, lato, skana, and mk1-braton to do this, as I sold all that stuff within a week of starting.

 

 

Frames like Banshee, Nova, and Rhino can increase damage output by a lot. Unmodded, Banshee gives you 500% damage boost if you hit specific spots, Nova gives you 200% and slows the speed, and Rhino gives you 50%. These also affect abilities you use, but Banshee's buff will only work if the yellow zone is on the torso, as that's the bodypart targeted by warframe abilities.

 

Frost, Vauban, Rhino, Loki, Nyx and Banshee are also awesome utility/crowd control warframes, with Nyx and Vauban being the current royalty with chaos, bastille, and vortex. Frost's uber works an area crowd control, Rhino's uber puts them in stasis for a period of time, Loki permenantly disarms, and Banshee has her 1st ability to knock mobs away.

 

Frost is god of defense, except against railguns, napalms, bombards, and shockwave moas. Those should be high targets in a defense/survival mission. Replace with Vauban when you're going against infested.

 

My ideal time would consist of a Frost, Nyx, and Banshee with some other frame as the 4th. This gives a really balanced team imo. Just replace Frost with Vauban for infested.

 

Banshee, Nova, and Rhino to do crazy damage, and then Frost for defensive ability.

 

EDIT: omg I completely forgot about Trinity. I kid you not, awesomest warframe to have on your team on low to mid-endgame. Don't know what it's like playing as one, and haven't had one for crazy high endgame, but she's awesome to have. Replenish health and energy, AND grants invincibility with her 4th ability (Crowd control still affects you tho)

Edited by michaelwii
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Guest Shibboleet

What kind of gear are you people using to get that high!?!?!?!

Acrid is armor ignore. I'll drop this hint ;)

 

do they still give low xp? ie 85-670

Sadly the highest I've seen from a heavy is only in the thousands, and defenses over wave 100 only give less than 6k credits ;_;

 

 

Somehow I got to wave 125 with a frost for that Xini competition. It worked well. (infested)

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/122678-attention-all-frost-a-challenge-to-the-community-with-rewards/

Edited by Shibboleet
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Frost, Vauban, Rhino, Loki, Nyx and Banshee are also awesome utility/crowd control warframes, with Nyx and Vauban being the current royalty with chaos, bastille, and vortex.

 

Quick question: in your opinion, how does Nekros (Shadows of the Dead) compare to Nyx (Chaos). You did not mention Nekros, so just wondering if there is something about Nyx's Chaos that makes it a lot better? I have Nekros but haven't played with Nyx, so just curious what other people think.  :)

 

Thanks.

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Quick question: in your opinion, how does Nekros (Shadows of the Dead) compare to Nyx (Chaos). You did not mention Nekros, so just wondering if there is something about Nyx's Chaos that makes it a lot better? I have Nekros but haven't played with Nyx, so just curious what other people think.  :)

 

Thanks.

 

TLDR: I'm basing this off of having the frames as teammates. Nyx's chaos can be considered better b/c you don't have to chase down mobs (it can only be recast when they're all dead, similar to Terror), but it's worse because of the risk of getting shot at. Mind Control on a healer is a more constant hp return than Desecrate, and is less likely to not work because of lag.

 

Realize, I don't have experience with Nekros, Nyx, Frost, or Trinity. I'm only commenting on how it's felt to have those frames as teammates. Only reason I haven't thought about him is I haven't partied with one often enough to ever think "wow, I'm glad he's on my team" whereas I expect a Nyx/Frost/Vauban/Loki to use their appropriate "best" skill (this may be to him being a new frame and being harder to get than those frames). Also, it only took 1 mission for me to love having Trinity, so I guess Nekros is a true support frame in the sense that you often don't realize the pros of having him on your team.That being said, from what I've gathered from friends who use Nekros and/or Nyx, Nekros' abilities are a bit more useful than Nyx. Also, his terror has a slightly larger range than Nyx's Chaos. Quick runthrough of her best abilities:

 

Chaos- Mobs target closest target, including tenno/objective if that's the closest, for the duration of the ability. You can't recast until all affected targets are dead.

Mind Control - Only affects one target, but they help you out for the duration of the ability. Control a healer and you get 100hp per pulse (or 50).

Absorb - Only seen it a few times post-buff, but it now does a guaranteed base damage plus whatever damage it takes in, which includes fire from teammates. Also draws aggro so it's fun.

 

However, Nyx's mind control on an ancient healer provides steady, guaranteed (for the duration) hp returns, while Nekros is dependent on the number of corpses lying around, which despawn. I also think it's dependent on whether they'e despawned for the host, so lag is also a factor of its viability. 

 

Honestly, It's just that Nyx has been the best in terms of crowd control for so long, before (imo) power creep became a real thing in terms of updates to warframes. Objectively, and off of the stats, I would say Nekros is better because of the armor reduction with Terror and its larger range and his desecrate. I would venture to say you should get both and try out both, but only forma the one you enjoy more. Both are viable in endgame, just that Nekros is newer and not as many people can bear testament of his capabilities.

Edited by michaelwii
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Very cool, thanks michaelwii! I love hearing about higher level players expleriences with this stuff.   :)

 

Last question (hopefully, hehe). So if those are the warframes your teammates were playing, what do you use at high level yourself?

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Very cool, thanks michaelwii! I love hearing about higher level players expleriences with this stuff.   :)

 

Last question (hopefully, hehe). So if those are the warframes your teammates were playing, what do you use at high level yourself?

 

Sorry it took so long to respond. Was randomly revisiting threads I've posted in and found this. You should "quote" a post if you want someone to respond, as they get a little notification when that's the case.

 

I've been using Rhino a lot lately, as I'm leveling a lot of weapons that are subpar. I enjoy high survival more than defense, and I like playing as Vauban as I tend to throw bastilles (with max stretch) all over the place to make it 10 times easier to kill mobs.

 

Nyx is so oftenly used (and Nekros now that I've been doing a lot more defense missions), that I tend to play as other frames. Mag and her Pull is also really good now that I think about it, but I think the cry for a range nerf on it will make her less viable. So I use Vauban and Rhino most, and will probably play a lot of Trinity once I finish leveling weapons and start playing her. 

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Sorry it took so long to respond. Was randomly revisiting threads I've posted in and found this. You should "quote" a post if you want someone to respond, as they get a little notification when that's the case.

 

I've been using Rhino a lot lately, as I'm leveling a lot of weapons that are subpar. I enjoy high survival more than defense, and I like playing as Vauban as I tend to throw bastilles (with max stretch) all over the place to make it 10 times easier to kill mobs.

 

Nyx is so oftenly used (and Nekros now that I've been doing a lot more defense missions), that I tend to play as other frames. Mag and her Pull is also really good now that I think about it, but I think the cry for a range nerf on it will make her less viable. So I use Vauban and Rhino most, and will probably play a lot of Trinity once I finish leveling weapons and start playing her. 

 

Ah, thanks for the tip on quoting. Didn't know that.

 

Very cool, thanks for all the great feedback. I sincerely appreciate it!  :)

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