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Do you think relic matchmaking system would be worth developing?


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4 hours ago, Krankbert said:

Have you ever played a game with a matchmaking system where the time you're willing to wait is an option you set in advance and not determined by you leaving the queue when it's been too long? Have you ever played a game with a matchmaking system that didn't just add people until your squad was full? Have you ever played a game with a matchmaking system with a set of ranked preferences of what you'd rather do instead if you can't find a group for what you're queueing for?

You're going out of your way to make matchmaking sound way more complicated than it has to be. There actually is a middle ground between a giant overcomplicated monstrosity that allows you to set every conceivable option in advance and nothing.

Have you ever tried reading the rest of the forum thread to view a post you're replying to in context instead of just imagining what that context might be?

All I did was make a realistic list of features a matchmaking system would have to support to do what the OP (and the first few people agreeing with him) wants it to do. The fact that such a system instantly becomes a "giant overcomplicated monstrosity" was kind of the whole point!

As for "middle ground" - have a go and try to describe what that middle ground would be! But make sure to include specific features/logic such middle ground would need to support and specific situations this would be useful in.

You will very quickly find that this is not as easy as you think, and that anything with a realistic use case (except the blatantly toxic stuff like MR/gear requirements/blacklists) would actually be rather tricky to specify, not to mention implement!

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Just now, (NSW)BalticBarbarian said:

Have you ever tried reading the rest of the forum thread to view a post you're replying to in context instead of just imagining what that context might be?

All I did was make a realistic list of features a matchmaking system would have to support to do what the OP (and the first few people agreeing with him) wants it to do. The fact that such a system instantly becomes a "giant overcomplicated monstrosity" was kind of the whole point!

As for "middle ground" - have a go and try to describe what that middle ground would be! But make sure to include specific features/logic such middle ground would need to support and specific situations this would be useful in.

You will very quickly find that this is not as easy as you think, and that anything with a realistic use case (except the blatantly toxic stuff like MR/gear requirements/blacklists) would actually be rather tricky to specify, not to mention implement!

Select relic, relic you want, or relic level (and/or)

Queue for game, people with relics get matched with people who want those relics and are given host.  People who want a relic get matched with people who have those relics, you choose which queue you're going for.  Relic level is a filter.

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4 minutes ago, SheikaVoid said:

Select relic, relic you want, or relic level (and/or)

Queue for game, people with relics get matched with people who want those relics and are given host.  People who want a relic get matched with people who have those relics, you choose which queue you're going for.  Relic level is a filter.

When would that be useful? In what specific situation would this make people's experience better?

  • For people trying to run a rare vaulted relic, this would be worthless - nobody would want to spend 20 minutes in the "you are in a queue" screen! And when people are joining such groups, it's usually not because 4 people independently and simultaneously decided to crack that particular relic at the same time - it's because the first person tried running it and the other 3 saw that message and thought "hey, I have one of those!". And this would simply not happen in an automated system
  • For people trying to radshare relics that have just been released, this would also be pretty pointless - when a new prime gets released you usually get 5 people messaging "inv" within seconds of you advertising for a new relic's radshare in chat. So making up a whole new system just to save people the 10 seconds they spend clicking on the names of people messaging them and pressing "Invite"? Sounds like quite a bit of an overkill!
  • New player trying to farm up some basic primes? This time is so short in fleeting in each player's playthrough that they would likely not find out about this fancy matchmaking system until long after they've finished farming the basic primes (judging by how long players take to figure out the "enable timestamps" chat option)

Or are you suggesting that when you are running random relics you want the system to automatically select a relic from your inventory just because someone else wants to run it? I'm not sure many players would support that idea!

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Posted (edited)
Le 04/06/2021 à 10:06, _R_o_g_u_e_ a dit :

The fact of the matter is, primes are already exceedingly easy to get.

If we look back to the earlier days of warframe and see things like, the equinox grind, Nidus, Harrow, Ivara hell even boss frames can be annoying elusive. By comparison, primes are extremely simple to unlock, to the point where a significant amount of my primes I just about build by accident.

DE has no incentive to make them any easier, and any work they do in that direction will just hurt themselves and the game by further eroding the in game economy.

Watch what happens to the price of new primes within the first 24-48 hours of their release. People are selling Mesa and wukong sets for 20-40p.

Regardless of wether this would be better or not for the players, it would be even more devastating to the games economy.

Well if i look back i remember the time when there was no trade system AT ALL in the game and some prime parts were hidden in defense at like 2% chance, add to that that it was only in the void for primes, always on the same tileset.

We came from very far.

Edited by Alpha56
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15 hours ago, (NSW)BalticBarbarian said:

When would that be useful? In what specific situation would this make people's experience better?

Already posted earlier.

 

Prevent some ppl from putting in 'wrong relic' in share runs. (It has been done both by mistake and purposefully)

Lets you play with other language setting ppl with different language settings, so you will have more wider pull of players to play together instead of stuck in your language option.

 

And why are you assuming this automated system can't have any kind of advertising itself? In most matchmaking system it would show list of rooms available. 

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vor 15 Stunden schrieb (NSW)BalticBarbarian:

Have you ever tried reading the rest of the forum thread to view a post you're replying to in context instead of just imagining what that context might be?

How about you just go back, this time assume that I did understand your comment and proceed from there.

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25 minutes ago, OwlOfJune said:

Prevent some ppl from putting in 'wrong relic' in share runs.

After everyone's selected their relics, there is a 5-10 second countdown before the mission actually starts. Plenty of time to cancel the mission if some of the selections are incorrect. Or just check the relic your teammates selected first thing after you load into the mission If something is wrong - cancel and reform.

You are suggesting removing this easy check (takes 2 seconds, usually requires no further action) at the cost of adding a whole extra options selection screen before you queue for every fissure mission. This is not going to make anyone's life better or easier!

 

29 minutes ago, OwlOfJune said:

Lets you play with other language setting ppl with different language settings, so you will have more wider pull of players to play together instead of stuck in your language option.

writing and recognising phrases like "[Relic] radshare 2/4" doesn't exactly take much linguistic ability! If you've been playing for a while, you should be able to communicate with other people in your region at this basic level. At the very least, you should have seen these messages in chat and you should have gotten to recognise them in most languages common to your region's chat. So if you are stuck in your "language option" - it is purely your own fault.

I have lived in many countries in very different regions, some of them very multicultural. And the inability of people to communicate on a basic level is never due to the lack of technical means - it's always due to their unwillingness to try! And before someone tries that dumb argument: no, English is not my first language.

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Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

How about you just go back, this time assume that I did understand your comment and proceed from there.

Tried it from the start. In the wider thread's context, your post makes absolutely zero sense. I was giving you more credit, assuming you wouldn't write something like that if you knew what that context was. My mistake!

Edited by (NSW)BalticBarbarian
fixed a typo
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Gerade eben schrieb (NSW)BalticBarbarian:

Tried it from the start. In the wider thread's context, your post makes absolutely zero sense. I was giving you more credit, assuming you wouldn't write something like that if you knew what that context was. My mistake!

vor 3 Minuten schrieb (NSW)BalticBarbarian:

the inability of people to communicate on a basic level is never due to the lack of technical means - it's always due to their unwillingness to try!

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Gerade eben schrieb (NSW)BalticBarbarian:

Nice job, pulling more statements out of context!

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought that was an opinion you held generally. I didn't know that by "people" you meant "other people".

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1 hour ago, Krankbert said:

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought that was an opinion you held generally. I didn't know that by "people" you meant "other people".

You might want to look at other parts of the quote, not just the one that suits your narrative! The issue was not with the word "people" - it was with the word "basic".

The post you grabbed the quote from (i.e. the quote's context) specified exactly what "basic" level of communication it was referring to - things like knowing the term for "radiant" in the language of a country next to yours. Discussing things in multi-page forum threads requires a somewhat higher level of linguistic proficiency - making the quote you used inapplicable to that topic!

That said, I understood perfectly well what argument you were trying to make (emphasis on "trying") - it was just a bad argument that did not fit the context of the discussion! Initially, I was happy to give you the benefit of doubt and assume you simply haven't read the thread's context. But now I'm beginning to suspect that you're actually just acting in bad faith!

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1 hour ago, (NSW)BalticBarbarian said:

Nice job, pulling more statements out of context!

 

1 hour ago, Krankbert said:

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought that was an opinion you held generally. I didn't know that by "people" you meant "other people".

Stop bickering and derailing the topic. If you don't think this idea isn't useful enough, then it is okay. 

 

1 hour ago, (NSW)BalticBarbarian said:

 

. At the very least, you should have seen these messages in chat and you should have gotten to recognise them in most languages common to your region's chat.

 

One literally cannot see other languages. In Korean client, only Korean comments shall be shown. In Japanese, only Japanese. In Chinese, only Chinese. Everything but our own language shows up as *** and is filtered out, and there is no way to see them at all. 

Alternative is to go to English client in Asian server, which then locks me out of my own language options as it will only show *** to others.

This system is to offer to bypass that problem.

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Perhaps better offer might been split of specific region chat (which allows my own language) and server wide chat (which allows to recruit others from different language play, in English most likely)

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1 minute ago, OwlOfJune said:

One literally cannot see other languages. In Korean client, only Korean comments shall be shown. In Japanese, only Japanese. In Chinese, only Chinese. Everything but our own language shows up as *** and is filtered out, and there is no way to see them at all. 

Alternative is to go to English client in Asian server, which then locks me out of my own language options as it will only show *** to others.

This system is to offer to bypass that problem.

Ok, I did not know that part - thanks for clarifying. But in that case, you are trying to fix the wrong part of the of the system. You need to look at the chat system, not the matchmaking system.

A solution here is actually quite simple and quite common - you have a selection of "canned phrasses" that you can use in chat (In many games, you see this as a sort of "communication wheel") Once such phrase is posted, each client will display the localised version of it. For example, if someone selects "hosting"->"[relic]"->"radshare", you would see the message that they want to host a radshare for this relic in the language appropriate to your client.

This solution is much more simple, much more standard and much more effective than any sort of matchmaking options screen. And it might even be a good idea to lock recruiting chat to only allow input through this system - that would keep a lot of irrelevant spam out of it.

 

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Just now, (NSW)BalticBarbarian said:

Ok, I did not know that part - thanks for clarifying. But in that case, you are trying to fix the wrong part of the of the system. You need to look at the chat system, not the matchmaking system.

A solution here is actually quite simple and quite common - you have a selection of "canned phrasses" that you can use in chat (In many games, you see this as a sort of "communication wheel") Once such phrase is posted, each client will display the localised version of it. For example, if someone selects "hosting"->"[relic]"->"radshare", you would see the message that they want to host a radshare for this relic in the language appropriate to your client.

This solution is much more simple, much more standard and much more effective than any sort of matchmaking options screen. And it might even be a good idea to lock recruiting chat to only allow input through this system - that would keep a lot of irrelevant spam out of it.

 

Yes this idea could perhaps work better than my just posed two recruit chat idea. Unfortunately currently linking items become broke in current Warframe too, so not sure how doable it may be.

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1 minute ago, OwlOfJune said:

Unfortunately currently linking items become broke in current Warframe too, so not sure how doable it may be.

The wheel would have an explicit button for "select item to link". That's actually much easier to implement and much less fragile than trying to parse free-form text, looking for phrases that refer to known linkable in-game items

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