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What if Melee enemies could disarm melee weapons?


0_The_F00l

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I thought of this while going through some of the recent discussions,

Just as there is the Drahk master that can disarm ranged weapons from us , what if we had melee enemies be able to take away our melee weapons ,

Either though a grapple hook or just a melee block.

Currently we can steam roll though a mission by just pressing melee (not that everyone does it , but its just a convenient way to clear a mission) ,

There are a few occasional enemies that can block some of the melee attacks (guardsman) but its not 100% ,

What if these enemies and a few others with "grapple hook" attacks could disarm your melee as well? (and then use it against you :P)

 

I personally feel it would be interesting, but how would you feel if you are suddenly deprived of your murder death stick when surrounded by enemies ?

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13 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

What if these enemies and a few others with "grapple hook" attacks could disarm your melee as well? (and then use it against you :P)

 

I did that in Assassins Creed games, I'd block their attack and do another move and steal their weapon then kill them with it, nothing finer. 

It would make for an interesting time in Steel Path suddenly losing your melee weapon hahahahaha.

 

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Nah, I think melee only needs enemies that can block melee attacks or have some time of counter that knocks you back or simply do high damage to prevent players from spamming E to victory.

These same enemies should be extremely vulnerable to guns.  Same should happen to AoE guns, a new enemy that can counter it

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2 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I thought of this while going through some of the recent discussions,

Just as there is the Drahk master that can disarm ranged weapons from us , what if we had melee enemies be able to take away our melee weapons ,

Either though a grapple hook or just a melee block.

Currently we can steam roll though a mission by just pressing melee (not that everyone does it , but its just a convenient way to clear a mission) ,

There are a few occasional enemies that can block some of the melee attacks (guardsman) but its not 100% ,

What if these enemies and a few others with "grapple hook" attacks could disarm your melee as well? (and then use it against you :P)

 

I personally feel it would be interesting, but how would you feel if you are suddenly deprived of your murder death stick when surrounded by enemies ?

Depending on how weapon recovery works, it could be a little awkward in melee-only sorties. :P   It's pretty amusing to imagine having to deal with this on a stat-stick frame.

I think there's the foundation of a good idea there, but it should be a fairly rare mechanic.   If it's like Drahk disarm, and the weapon is just dropped and marked, that's really not too bad IMO.  If a unit actually steals a weapon, it should be marked, and the weapon should be recoverable by killing it...or by landing a few fist attacks.   It be sort of nice to have those more present in the game, as I'd bet a lot of players don't know or have forgotten they exist.

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Having a ranged enemy steal your ranged weapon works, having a melee enemy steal your melee weapon doesn't.  Why?  Because when you lose a ranged weapon, you still have a ranged weapon, and hence you lose access to one flavor of your ability to do ranged combat, but not your entire ability to engage in ranged combat.

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20 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

Having a ranged enemy steal your ranged weapon works, having a melee enemy steal your melee weapon doesn't.  Why?  Because when you lose a ranged weapon, you still have a ranged weapon, and hence you lose access to one flavor of your ability to do ranged combat, but not your entire ability to engage in ranged combat.

Not completely accurate as you can lose both ranged weapons to a drahk attack.

 

1 hour ago, --F--NerevarCM said:

Nah, I think melee only needs enemies that can block melee attacks or have some time of counter that knocks you back or simply do high damage to prevent players from spamming E to victory.

These same enemies should be extremely vulnerable to guns.  Same should happen to AoE guns, a new enemy that can counter it

 

3 hours ago, Genitive said:

I would rather see more enemies that can block melee effectively or have some kind of counterattack. I don't like when games take away my stuff for the sake of difficulty. It would get annoying very quickly.

Those already exist and are not noticeable.

41 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Depending on how weapon recovery works, it could be a little awkward in melee-only sorties. :P   It's pretty amusing to imagine having to deal with this on a stat-stick frame.

I think there's the foundation of a good idea there, but it should be a fairly rare mechanic.   If it's like Drahk disarm, and the weapon is just dropped and marked, that's really not too bad IMO.  If a unit actually steals a weapon, it should be marked, and the weapon should be recoverable by killing it...or by landing a few fist attacks.   It be sort of nice to have those more present in the game, as I'd bet a lot of players don't know or have forgotten they exist.

The objective is fun after all. Something to spice up the brain-dead monotony.

2 hours ago, JackHargreav said:

It's already annoying when I loose my guns. If I loose even my melee weapon I'd #*!% my self in the eye.

Wait would you stab yourself or #*!% yourself ? It would be horrifying either way.

37 minutes ago, (XBOX)TyeGoo said:

This idea is as bad as the lifting status.. I'd pass on that.

I don't quite know what to make of that.

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13 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Not completely accurate as you can lose both ranged weapons to a drahk attack.

No, it's completely accurate because I'm talking about the effects of a single enemy action on the player.  No single enemy action can remove your ability to use ranged weaponry entirely.

Is it technically possible for a Drahk friend to eventually completely remove a player's ability to shoot?  Yes...but it's incredibly unlikely.  In all my years of playing Warframe, this has never happened to me.  Whereas if you introduce an enemy that steals melee weapons, I can guarantee you that I would end up losing melee and blocking functionality immediately.  Despite the similarities of the attacks, the context of the Tenno arsenal makes them drastically different concepts.

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Instead of disarming you, ranged enemies should get Lich style evasive abilities and actively run away from you if you get within blender distance XD. 

Melee enemies should actually swing at you. Why do they wind up for an eternity before each swing lol 

 

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I'm against having your melee removed, as you can already lose your guns and be forced to fallback to melee if you have a few drahk masters spawn simultaneously. It's happened, and it's annoying. Having the potential for ALL your non-cast offensive options removed is a bad idea.

I would be interested if they could interrupt your attacks momentarily and unstack your combo counter a multiplier or two though. Right now running at max combo/cycling heavy attacks is pretty strong and if the enemy could mess with that cycle there's more potential for play/counterplay there.

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7 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

There are a few occasional enemies that can block some of the melee attacks (guardsman) but its not 100%

Go into a group of enemies and find a singular guardsman hidden there that's channel blocking you and see how fun it is getting staggered out of your attack over and over. They basically turn off your melee capabilities altogether. Only solution is putting away your melee and shooting them because there is nothing you can do about it.

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7 hours ago, Genitive said:

I would rather see more enemies that can block melee effectively or have some kind of counterattack. I don't like when games take away my stuff for the sake of difficulty. It would get annoying very quickly.

I liked that comment but... I think the horde grinder veterans don't support this kind of mechanics as they are lazily accustomed to nuclear weapons.

 

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8 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I personally feel it would be interesting, but how would you feel if you are suddenly deprived of your murder death stick when surrounded by enemies ?

two things:

- in game terms, people would be pretty irritated, especially considering how much people tend to use melee. plsu you'd be screwed if they took both guns and your melee, especially as a frame with zero real damage on abilities, like Trinity.

- in lore terms, Tenno are martial arts masters, who would probably be familiar with disarming techniques and how to counter them: the only reason the Drahk Masters get away with it is because their Halikar flies quickly to you,  grabs the weapon and flies off before you can try to wrench it back. 

I wouldn't be against having more elite versions of melee enemies that can block melee attacks and require flanking, slide attacks or some other tactic to break their defense, but having them disarm us even more? no thanks. 

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56 minutes ago, (PSN)Yggranya said:

Go into a group of enemies and find a singular guardsman hidden there that's channel blocking you and see how fun it is getting staggered out of your attack over and over. They basically turn off your melee capabilities altogether. Only solution is putting away your melee and shooting them because there is nothing you can do about it.

Thats the point, to stop swinging your melee once you realise something is blocking you ,

Also it doesn't quite work as you have written as the enemies only block front facing attacks , and many many of our attacks simply bypass their blocks so it is not even noticeable most of the time.

So what you have given as a problem rarely ever happens.

34 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

two things:

- in game terms, people would be pretty irritated, especially considering how much people tend to use melee. plsu you'd be screwed if they took both guns and your melee, especially as a frame with zero real damage on abilities, like Trinity.

- in lore terms, Tenno are martial arts masters, who would probably be familiar with disarming techniques and how to counter them: the only reason the Drahk Masters get away with it is because their Halikar flies quickly to you,  grabs the weapon and flies off before you can try to wrench it back. 

I wouldn't be against having more elite versions of melee enemies that can block melee attacks and require flanking, slide attacks or some other tactic to break their defense, but having them disarm us even more? no thanks. 

 

8 hours ago, dudefaceguy said:

I would feel intensely irritated.

Oh yes , the irritation ,

would it be more or less irritating than the scorpions and ancients that drag you with your face in the mud/asphalt/ other terrain from behind cover and your ass open to enemy fire?

Or the friendship doors that depend on your squad mates to keep up with you?

Or the magnetic laser doors that sap all your energy?

The game is full of irritating mechanics intented to slow you down , there are so many mechanics in the game that allow you to be faster and more fluid , and some that act as blocks to those movements.

Over time the ease and feature creep has overcome whatever primitive blocks existed , so it is time to add some new ones. And melee especially has practically no drawback as of now i am just thinking up means to torture the tenno challenge the meta.

The mechanic is absolutely supposed to be a hindrance and every hindrance is an irritation or an annoyance, until you build the skills to overcome it.

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4 minutes ago, AlexMercer said:

No.

Such eloquence and sound reasoning. There is no possible way for me to counter such a well articulated argument.

But I will try.

"Yes".

15 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I think this is an interesting idea. 

I am surprised to see such negative feedback towards it. 

It is expected , anything that interferes with getting rewards (or slows it down) is going to be disliked by the average player.

It is an unfortunate situation where the game has become more and more a slot machine than an actual shooty slashy action game.

Bigger numbers are preferred over interesting engagements.

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This is the solution I've been suggesting whenever melee-ranged balance comes up.  IMO, the disarm (or perhaps just a nasty stagger) should occur when you hit said enemy with your melee attack, and not be an attack by the enemy.  It should not be aim towards depriving you of your melee weapon/attack, but rather to deter the kind of blind button mashing we see right now.  So instead of bullet jumping at the first group of enemies you see and mashing E, we will have to keep our eyes open for these party poopers.

The real-life weapons used for such disarming maneuvers were called "main gauche" / "swordbreaker" / "trident daggers" (in Europe) or "jutte" / "jitte" (in Japan).  These new enemy units could carry stylized/futuristic versions of these weapons rather conspicuously as obvious tells for us to switch tactics.

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1 hour ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Such eloquence and sound reasoning. There is no possible way for me to counter such a well articulated argument.

But I will try.

"Yes".

It is expected , anything that interferes with getting rewards (or slows it down) is going to be disliked by the average player.

It is an unfortunate situation where the game has become more and more a slot machine than an actual shooty slashy action game.

Bigger numbers are preferred over interesting engagements.

I was not trying to argue just stating my opinion on that matter with a simple no but if you want a better reason for that no it sounds annoying and im not interested in another mechanic that makes the game harder we already have a version of this for primary and secondary don’t need another one for melee.

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