Jump to content

Arcane Victory > Arcane Grace (personal opinion)


Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Since i play around now for a long time and was literally bored with some of my builds i tested some "stuff" and actually came to a statement. This might be a personal opinion BUT:

Arcane victory is way much better than the harder to get arcane Grace.

 

Listen, before you go on and already throw literally knifes at me, hear me out and let me explain why for a moment.

A lot people love to put just arcane grace in their warframes since it seems like the "go to" arcane for, as sample, a lot warframe youtubers. when ever you watch a youtube video about a warframe build you see literally (if its not a melee frame...) 2 arcanes which are: Energize AND Grace.

For people which doesnt know: Arcance energize gives you and your team mates, which HAVE to be "around" you, when you pick up energie up to an extra 150 energie which sure is cool and helpful and no doubt, hats down, holes in the cheese, is just good and doesnt need to explained further why everyone and his grandson uses it.

HOWEVER~

In the other hand, people uses the arcane grace which has a pretty itzy bitzy tiny chance (even on rank 5...which is just 9%) to when ever you get hit/direct damage on your HEALTH (aka when your shield is gone or similar) that youre able to recover some said health back. In fact, on the highest rank its 6% of your max health per second 9 seconds long, making a total of wooping 54% of your health back in 9 seconds.

This all sounds good and great and might be an "emergency tool" which CAN help you if you get shot in your tiny ninja toes and begin to bleed out coz some enemy across the map had to sniper your said toes from accross the map.

BUT THAN I HAVE TO REMIND YOU:

- Even on rank 5, the chance is just 9% so calculating it, its not even every 10th shot of an enemy that your "regen" arcane magic will happen.

- You HAVE to be damaged FIRST before the buff actually CAN hit you with said chance, making an impact of an mine feels like the old german saying "its so much easier to move if the pain goes away".

So if you think about that overall, in higher difficulties, the chance youre getting such arcane buff are literally near to ZERO since the enemies make way to fast way to much damage on your health that you might already just run into the enemies with no weapons and give them a hug wile they literally blast your feet away.

 

In the other hand...

Say hello to mommy arcane Victory~

Arcane victory works as followed:

Arcane victory provides a chance to gain health regeneration for a short time upon achieving a head shot kill.

Ok, hold on this sounds now like the "total opposite" but think about it for a second: When are you in "need" of health? If you are in a fight and hold your position OR if you already nearly out of breath and TRY to hold your position? Again, if your shield is down and you have to literally "wait" till a low chance arcane "suddendly triggers" with a chance from just 9% on full rank, you will know BUT OH BOI lets compare that to an arcane which has a trigger chance on headshots from freaking 75% mah boi!

Yes, On full rank, Arcane Victory has a trigger chance from 75% on each headshot kill and since Warframe is SO broken sometimes that you can even GET such kill by just swinging a freaking sword at some people in their kneecaps and it STILL counts as headS-H-O-T kill, you can guess how often THIS will trigger compared to grace and its 9% chance.

Ok now i can already hear people screaming in the background "But DUUUUUUUUDE! grace heals you 6%/sec for 9 seconds full rank wile victory only heals you 3%/sec for 9 seconds!!!!111one"

Granted, Grace is ABLE to heal you more and faster in the same time as victory would - which is "just" 3%/sec for 9 seconds so "only" 27% (about half what grace WOULD heal) of your total health

BUT

Compare a 9% getting damaged on YOUR health chance to a killing YOUR enemy with a headshot 75% chance here and you can already see who will be able to stay longer in fire fights.

And again:

- Arcane victory is able to trigger ALL THE GAWD DANG TIME with FULL health and FULL shield wile for grace you literally HAVE to take health damage first, making the acrane victory basicly something like an "all time pretty good health regan" opinion than an actual "emergency tool" arcane grace is.

- Youre MORE likely to get health from actually KILLING enemies FIRST than actually getting SHOT first.

- Victory is also WAY cheaper AND easier to get (Plat wise) than Grace for what ever reason.

- The differ of the chances are just...WAY to high. Again: we are talking 9% GETTING shot VS 75% KILLING someone, basicly.

 

So yea, after testing that, judge me here but my point stands that im more likely to use the arcane victory than arcane grace. Its just way to good and helps you survive better in the long run and fights. Whats your opinion? Maybe you can change ma mind boi but i doubt. I mean See my points there? wanna say somthin? lets go than!

But yea, sure, tell me what you think about this opinion and which of the arcanes YOU think is better and why. Would be nice to know actually.

 

Edited by Leon-Darkheart
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Leon-Darkheart said:

Since i play around now for a long time and was literally bored with some of my builds i tested some "stuff" and actually came to a statement. This might be a personal opinion BUT:

Arcane victory is way much better than the harder to get arcane Grace.

 

Listen, before you go on and already throw literally knifes at me, hear me out and let me explain why for a moment.

A lot people love to put just arcane grace in their warframes since it seems like the "go to" arcane for, as sample, a lot warframe youtubers. when ever you watch a youtube video about a warframe build you see literally (if its not a melee frame...) 2 arcanes which are: Energize AND Grace.

For people which doesnt know: Arcance energize gives you and your team mates, which HAVE to be "around" you, when you pick up energie up to an extra 150 energie which sure is cool and helpful and no doubt, hats down, holes in the cheese, is just good and doesnt need to explained further why everyone and his grandson uses it.

HOWEVER~

In the other hand, people uses the arcane grace which has a pretty itzy bitzy tiny chance (even on rank 5...which is just 9%) to when ever you get hit/direct damage on your HEALTH (aka when your shield is gone or similar) that youre able to recover some said health back. In fact, on the highest rank its 6% of your max health per second 9 seconds long, making a total of wooping 54% of your health back in 9 seconds.

This all sounds good and great and might be an "emergency tool" which CAN help you if you get shot in your tiny ninja toes and begin to bleed out coz some enemy across the map had to sniper your said toes from accross the map.

BUT THAN I HAVE TO REMIND YOU:

- Even on rank 5, the change is just 9% so calculating it, its not even every 10th shot of an enemy that your "regen" arcane magic will happen.

- You HAVE to be damaged FIRST before the buff actually CAN hit you with said chance, making an impact of an mine feels like the old german saying "its so much easier to move if the pain goes away".

So if you think about that overall, in higher difficulties, the chance youre getting such arcane buff are literally near to ZERO since the enemies make way to fast way to much damage on your health that you might already just run into the enemies with no weapons and give them a hug wile they literally blast your feet away.

 

In the other hand...

Say hello to mommy arcane Victory~

Arcane victory works as followed:

Arcane victory provides a chance to gain health regeneration for a short time upon achieving a head shot kill.

Ok, hold on this sounds now like the "total opposite" but think about it for a second: When are you in "need" of health? If you are in a fight and hold your position OR if you already nearly out of breath and TRY to hold your position? Again, if your shield is down and you have to literally "wait" till a low chance arcane "suddendly triggers" with a chance from just 9% on full rank, you will know BUT OH BOI lets compare that to an arcane which has a trigger chance on headshots from freaking 75% mah boi!

Yes, On full rank, Arcane Victory has a trigger chance from 75% on each headshot kill and since Warframe is SO broken sometimes that you can even GET such kill by just swinging a freaking sword at some people in their kneecaps and it STILL counts as headS-H-O-T kill, you can guess how often THIS will trigger compared to grace and its 9% chance.

Ok now i can already hear people screaming in the background "But DUUUUUUUUDE! grace heals you 6%/sec for 9 seconds full rank wile victory only heals you 3%/sec for 9 seconds!!!!111one"

Granted, Grace is ABLE to heal you more and faster in the same time as victory would - which is "just" 3%/sec for 9 seconds so "only" 27% (about half what grace WOULD heal) of your total health

BUT

Compare a 9% getting damaged on YOUR health chance to a killing YOUR enemy with a headshot 75% chance here and you can already see who will be able to stay longer in fire fights.

And again:

- Arcane victory is able to trigger ALL THE GAWD DANG TIME with FULL health and FULL shield wile for grace you literally HAVE to take health damage first, making the acrane victory basicly something like an "all time pretty good health regan" opinion than an actual "emergency tool" arcane grace is.

- Youre MORE likely to get health from actually KILLING enemies FIRST than actually getting SHOT first.

- Victory is also WAY cheaper AND easier to get (Plat wise) than Grace for what ever reason.

- The differ of the chances are just...WAY to high. Again: we are talking 9% GETTING shot VS 75% KILLING someone, basicly.

 

So yea, after testing that, judge me here but my point stands that im more likely to use the arcane victory than arcane grace. Its just way to good and helps you survive better in the long run and fights. Whats your opinion? Maybe you can change ma mind boi but i doubt. I mean See my points there? wanna say somthin? lets go than!

But yea, sure, tell me what you think about this opinion and which of the arcanes YOU think is better and why. Would be nice to know actually.

 

I really dont care wich is better

I only want to clarify you on something
That tinny chance on grace is to be triggered on each hit
So if u take 20 bullets in ur butt in idk 3 secs you have 20 chances to trigger it in other words passive activation without your input

With victory its only when you actually head shot "aim" into heads and shoot them
Well aim i somehow get headshots with killing with melee so "aim" so anyway it require your input
And then comes the factor of if enemies are far away or if you use khora strangledome or vaubans vortex how do you want to headshot?

SO not judging your choice not promoting my choice i just wanted to explain to you why ppl choose grace over victory
If you still dont get it its the reason why we take limbo to mobile def "easy win less input"

Same story with magus repair vs elevate while elevate seems better repair seems like easier input and works 100% removing RNG aspect from it
If you go with elevate you need to look did it trigger did u get healed
With repair u just press 5 duck for few secs and after some time with muscle memory you even know how long to crouch to heal how much

So in the end we are just lazy pigs we choose easier way even if its less efficient but makes us bother less about 1 more aspect or paying attention to it we go that route

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You have to account for the people that want Grace.

 

Your average Inaros player wants to play the game as little as possible.

Headshot Kill = Aim and Shoot or Spam E until you get a random headshot.

 

This is too much work.

Inaros is preceived as good because he doesn't die in the majority of content, even if you do not touch your keyboard.

 

Victory has a few instances in which it is better, like being on extremely low health, at which point you can take cover and snipe yourself to full health again.

But, there's a MUCH better and safer alternative to Victory, one that doesn't even consume one of your 2 precious Warframe arcane slots.

 

Magus Repair will heal you back to 100% health within 3 secconds, this applies to every single Warframe in the game, it will also heal your teammates within 30m of your operator, which means you can also always play Medic, even if you never choose a Warframe with healing powers.

 

So in short:

Grace is the option to choose to heal without effort.

Victory is the safer, but still not risk free, more reliable option to heal slower but with effort.

Repair is the absolute  safest option to heal, as you use it during void mode, much faster option to heal, but you need to quit combat to use it.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, ZeroX4 said:

I only want to clarify you on something
That tinny chance on grace is to be triggered on each hit
So if u take 20 bullets in ur butt in idk 3 secs you have 20 chances to trigger it in other words passive activation without your input

oh i know that but if each of said bullet is from an lvl 90+ cannon guy, which will pretty much likely turn you into swiss cheese, i doubt you will survive that with a 9% chance.

3 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

o in the end we are just lazy pigs we choose easier way even if its less efficient but makes us bother less about 1 more aspect or paying attention to it we go that route

pretty much that mate heh.

3 minutes ago, 16Bitman said:

Headshot Kill = Aim and Shoot or Spam E until you get a random headshot.

 

This is too much work.

lol seems like for a lot of the people.

4 minutes ago, 16Bitman said:

So in short:

Grace is the option to choose to heal without effort.

Victory is the safer, but still not risk free, more reliable option to heal slower but with effort.

Repair is the absolute  safest option to heal, as you use it during void mode, much faster option to heal, but you need to quit combat to use it.

and for that a beer mate!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Arcane Grace recovers health by percentage and is ideal for frames with armor and health above 1k,
6% of 1000 health = 60 health per second, 9 seconds = 540, so it's a good choice to any build.

My opnion:
The personal health recovery mod option (arcane, magus, healing return...) is extremely versatile in the game,
you can channel health recovery from any equipment, even companion can do that if your build is focused to do this.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Famecans said:

Arcane Grace recovers health by percentage and is ideal for frames with armor and health above 1k,
6% of 1000 health = 60 health per second, 9 seconds = 540, so it's a good choice to any build.

er, Arcane Victory does the same thing just half of it. As i said 3%/sec for 9 seconds, to go with your sample_

3% of 1000 health = 30 health per second, 9 seconds = 270

I just basicly said victory is more likely to trigger than grace since victory can trigger all the time wile for grace, you HAVE to get health damage. Its basicly even worse if your health is already low and you have your shield back up - with victory, its no problem since it can even trigger wile you have shield, healing you back up in the background basicly. with grace, it will not trigger whatsoever.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Leon-Darkheart said:

oh i know that but if each of said bullet is from an lvl 90+ cannon guy, which will pretty much likely turn you into swiss cheese, i doubt you will survive that with a 9% chance.

And here we are narrowing it down to essential problem
New player vs end game player

Problem is not with grace vs victory but how you supplement them with your mods

I really rarely die on sp i think its like 4 years already since i run out of revives on a single mission and like 3 years since i died more than twice on a single mission
(While i use inaros only for hijack missions)

At the same time new players have not much upgraded mods their HP and armor is extremely low and victory in that case looks like better option to them

So i believe problem is what we are healing with arcanes and not how arcanes are healing/being triggered

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Leon-Darkheart said:
9 minutes ago, Famecans said:

Arcane Grace recovers health by percentage and is ideal for frames with armor and health above 1k,
6% of 1000 health = 60 health per second, 9 seconds = 540, so it's a good choice to any build.

er, Arcane Victory does the same thing just half of it. As i said 3%/sec for 9 seconds, to go with your sample_

3% of 1000 health = 30 health per second, 9 seconds = 270

I just basicly said victory is more likely to trigger than grace since victory can trigger all the time wile for grace, you HAVE to get health damage. Its basicly even worse if your health is already low and you have your shield back up - with victory, its no problem since it can even trigger wile you have shield, healing you back up in the background basicly. with grace, it will not trigger whatsoever.

yep.

I said "to any build"
I wanted to say "to specific builds"

Sorry😅

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, ZeroX4 said:

And here we are narrowing it down to essential problem
New player vs end game player

Problem is not with grace vs victory but how you supplement them with your mods

I really rarely die on sp i think its like 4 years already since i run out of revives on a single mission and like 3 years since i died more than twice on a single mission
(While i use inaros only for hijack missions)

At the same time new players have not much upgraded mods their HP and armor is extremely low and victory in that case looks like better option to them

So i believe problem is what we are healing with arcanes and not how arcanes are healing/being triggered

yea which is kinda sad. i mean i said it already:

58 minutes ago, Leon-Darkheart said:

Arcane victory is able to trigger ALL THE GAWD DANG TIME with FULL health and FULL shield wile for grace you literally HAVE to take health damage first, making the acrane victory basicly something like an "all time pretty good health regan" opinion than an actual "emergency tool" arcane grace is.

 

1 minute ago, Famecans said:

yep.

I said "to any build"
I wanted to say "to specific builds"

granted. for some warframes grace "might" be the better opinion for healthpool reasons or like. I just still think about the chances.

i mean i literally said that as well:

1 hour ago, Leon-Darkheart said:

The differ of the chances are just...WAY to high. Again: we are talking 9% GETTING shot VS 75% KILLING someone, basicly.

:D

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought Grace was great until I started "settling" for Victory. Since getting Victory, most of my frames have become immortal (though sometimes I get panicky if my health is critical and it isn't proccing/I start missing), even at just 25% proc chance.

I usually don't have problems getting headshots, but I can see the appeal of both. Victory, imo, fits on more frames that rely on shields or "kill it first" abilities, but Grace fits better on "traditional" tanks. No idea at what point the differences matter, though I'm sure SP qualifies. Probably.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, TheSixOfDiamonds said:

I thought Grace was great until I started "settling" for Victory. Since getting Victory, most of my frames have become immortal (though sometimes I get panicky if my health is critical and it isn't proccing/I start missing), even at just 25% proc chance.

same here and victory has a 75% chance wile grace has only 9% (both on full rank)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see a lot of people saying they need to aim or whatnot... Explosive weapons can still get headshots, just less consistently. But just getting two headshot kills you have a very high chance of proccing Victory. 

Grace is just even lazier. Inaros does little other than take damage anyway, and his EHP is high enough that you don't have to really care that you are taking damage, so it's an entirely passive interaction. It's going to activate unless you're being one shot, and if you're being one shot it was probably time to leave anyway. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Magus repair on kiddo. No rng needed. It's always there, when I need it. No rng in acquiring the arcanes either, just a load of toroid grinding. Drop into void mode and recover a quarter of my health per tick. Full heal in about 2 seconds.

That said, I've since slapped Gloom and the rage mod on Inaros and run around with Arcane Avenger now. I always have energy for Gloom, which slows everything down and insta heals me whenever I hit something, and I hit things hard now 😈😂

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

While I am not against your preference to choose victory over grace (hehe ) 

I would not say if it is necessarily better (or worse)

Others have already highlighted that grace is passive and victory is an active arcane (kind of) so grace is appealing to the more "I couldn't be bothered to actually play the game I just wanna get S#&$ done" mindset.

And while you could frequently trigger victory more reliably at low level , getting headshot kills at higher levels is harder to achieve as enemies are tankier so the logic of enemies at higher levelsbis equally valid on both arcanes.

I used victory for some time on my savage Banshee , nekros and sharpshooter ivara builds , but honestly if i can reliably kill enemies with headshots quickly I am not in need of healing most of the time, 

And if the S#&$ hits the fan , I have magus repair (I actually have many many healing tricks up my sleeve to ensure I am very very tough to kill ) 

So I actually don't use either grace or victory on most of my loadouts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its all about the frame that uses the arcane, my chroma can tank steel path mot enemies (140lvl, x4 damage from void T4), so I can get hit enough to trigger grace, on a frame like mag you cant tank damage so velocity its better, but in the end its all about the frame that uses it, not the arcane itself.

The absolute true safe and quicker heal its magus repair, and paired with magus lockdown you literally heal you, cc the world arround and keep going.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, KittySkin said:

Its all about the frame that uses the arcane, my chroma can tank steel path mot enemies (140lvl, x4 damage from void T4), so I can get hit enough to trigger grace, on a frame like mag you cant tank damage so velocity its better, but in the end its all about the frame that uses it, not the arcane itself.

The absolute true safe and quicker heal its magus repair, and paired with magus lockdown you literally heal you, cc the world arround and keep going.

Exactly my setup for arcanes. :highfive:

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

haven't bothered with health regen since shieldgating was introduced, only frame that uses grace is inaros (kek) and i haven't used him in years

if you do need healing then operator arcanes are there and work with any frame, since they'er not on a frame  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, ZeroX4 said:

Well aim i somehow get headshots with killing with melee so "aim" so anyway it require your input

If you notice, some of your swings pass by the head of the enemy, so its not hard to see a headshot happening.

Overhead-down strikes are the ones that usually hit the head, so yeah, its doing what is supposed to do.

Its like when you grab a bottle of bear and wack it on the head of another dude. Somehow, your "aim" got a headshot! Somehow you hit the head. I dont know how a melee weapon did that, but it did.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

If you notice, some of your swings pass by the head of the enemy, so its not hard to see a headshot happening.

Overhead-down strikes are the ones that usually hit the head, so yeah, its doing what is supposed to do.

Its like when you grab a bottle of bear and wack it on the head of another dude. Somehow, your "aim" got a headshot! Somehow you hit the head. I dont know how a melee weapon did that, but it did.

You dont know who you talking to

My stats in games like counterstrike looks like 2-15 not to mention even performing a headshot
I am so aimless being its unbelievable

Never was good in mouse aiming thats why i run with astilla to shoot into the ground and still damage enemies
And i bet there are more ppl like me i wont headshot unless im in front of enemy with gun pointed into his head

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

It's almost like context matters and neither of them is actually outright better than the other.

That said, as others have pointed out, SpoilerMode arcanes are vastly superior healing arcanes in general use because the trigger condition is "i press a button to heal".

Edited by (PSN)Unstar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...