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Arcane Victory > Arcane Grace (personal opinion)


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Posted (edited)
On 2021-06-05 at 7:39 AM, 0_The_F00l said:

getting headshot kills at higher levels is harder to achieve as enemies are tankier so the logic of enemies at higher levelsbis equally valid on both arcanes

tbh, its not as hard as people make it/say so. as my main post already said, Warframe is still so broken, you can literally melee kill someone and get a heads-h-o-t kill - and to be fair, if you have to fight on a higher difficulty im also sure you bring a more tankier frame with you anyway (or at least one which can take a punch or resist damage).

 

On 2021-06-05 at 6:41 PM, (PSN)Unstar said:

That said, as others have pointed out, SpoilerMode arcanes are vastly superior healing arcanes in general use because the trigger condition is "i press a button to heal".

using them makes them not automaticly better. it basicly was said all over the thread/topic that people use grace only coz they are lazy to actually "play the game" and "aim", thats all. I understand that "SOMEHOW" but that pretty much doesnt change my mind nor the "near fact" that basicly victory is a all the time health-regan-mode wile grace "can be happen" and helpful if its already, in most cases, to late anyways. Again to quote myself:

On 2021-06-04 at 10:03 PM, Leon-Darkheart said:

Arcane victory is able to trigger ALL THE GAWD DANG TIME with FULL health and FULL shield wile for grace you literally HAVE to take health damage first,

as for other stuff, sure magus elevate or magus repair are also a thing but guys, i was not talking about those, i understand that you go more for those "if i need healing" but than i was talking only about grace and victory here. :3

Edited by Leon-Darkheart
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OP has good points, but...

Arcane Victory requires weapon kills for the most part. So I'm not going to use Victory if I'm focused on ability kills, obviously.  (Likewise for boss fights without many trash spawns.)

 And if I'm using weapons to kill things, one of my Arcanes at optimally going to be a weapon enhancer.  Because of the existence of other heal options, the other one is -not- likely  to be either Victory or Grace.

So for me the question is pretty moot.

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28 minutes ago, Leon-Darkheart said:

using them makes them not automaticly better. it basicly was said all over the thread/topic that people use grace only coz they are lazy to actually "play the game" and "aim", thats all. I understand that "SOMEHOW" but that pretty much doesnt change my mind nor the "near fact" that basicly victory is a all the time health-regan-mode wile grace "can be happen" and helpful if its already, in most cases, to late anyways. Again to quote myself:

Victory does nothing if you're not getting headshots that simultaneously kill enemies.  If that happens to be the way you play, congrats, it sounds like Victory is for you.  But if your play style isn't about getting frequent head shot kills, Victory isn't going to help you much.  That's what makes Victory more niche.  Which is why for general use SpoilerMode arcanes are better recommendations, because regardless of the players' frame, damage output, or playstyle, they give health on-demand in any context.

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1 hour ago, Leon-Darkheart said:

tbh, its not as hard as people make it/say so. as my main post already said, Warframe is still so broken, you can literally melee kill someone and get a heads-h-o-t kill - and to be fair, if you have to fight on a higher difficulty im also sure you bring a more tankier frame with you anyway (or at least one which can take a punch or resist damage).

Its not hard , just harder,

let me explain; enemies need to die to headshots, if my melee kills them to body shots or they die to procs that is one less chance to trigger the arcane.

I can easily get direct damage kills up to level 100 or so with my ranged weapon setup , higher level enemies tend to die to the slash procs or CO boosted body shots more often than direct damage.

And as mentioned, there are better ways to heal so i would prefer to use warframe arcanes that are better utility (consequence, energize) over either of grace or victory.

Once again , your preference is not wrong , i just dont agree that its better than the other healing alternatives.

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Posted (edited)
On 2021-06-04 at 4:46 PM, Leon-Darkheart said:

oh i know that but if each of said bullet is from an lvl 90+ cannon guy, which will pretty much likely turn you into swiss cheese, i doubt you will survive that with a 9% chance.

pretty much that mate heh.

lol seems like for a lot of the people.

and for that a beer mate!

Some play for headshots for buffs.

 Some like Corrupt Charge/Heavy Attack/Slam AoE Melee Crits and Status/Crit Hybrids that inflict millions of damage collectively to multiple targets at once.

Horde mechanics is horde mechanics.

”Lazy” argument is, ironically, lazy lol

Edited by (PSN)Silverback73
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On 2021-06-05 at 10:47 AM, Fallen77 said:

"X definable technical item is better than Y definable technical item, but it's only my opinion"...

Can't wait for the next EFAP all about this thread

You’re a romantic deep down aren’t you.  Don’t be scared.  You can admit it.

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Le 08/06/2021 à 01:03, (PSN)Silverback73 a dit :

You’re a romantic deep down aren’t you.  Don’t be scared.  You can admit it.

...not sure what you mean by that but sure ! I can admit that much.

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Posted (edited)
On 2021-06-07 at 6:28 PM, (PSN)Unstar said:

Victory does nothing if you're not getting headshots that simultaneously kill enemies.

well duh. sorry but same can be said with grace: if you dont get shot in your ninja toes, you dont grain health back as well. :3

 

and so far i only see that people seem to have problems to actually aim on enemy heads.

Srsly to say AND ask: Do you guys have really such "hardcore" problems to aim on the gigantic heads warframe enemys actually have? I could understand this "its hard to do and hard to get" arguments if its literally "HARD" to hit headshots and such but than i have to remember that i play warframe where not only the hitboxes are broken but enemies heads are GIGANTIC, EASY to see and easy to hit AND, again, you literally can get headS-H-O-T kills viva melee...

The only argument i can take for real so far is

On 2021-06-07 at 10:40 PM, (PSN)Silverback73 said:

 Some like Corrupt Charge/Heavy Attack/Slam AoE Melee Crits and Status/Crit Hybrids that inflict millions of damage collectively to multiple targets at once.

Horde mechanics is horde mechanics.

”Lazy” argument is, ironically, lazy lol

Coz even if you have such heavy attack/ AoE Builds, you get such headS-H-O-T kills from time to time.

Im not here and be mad but so far, i dont saw a lot people which went for numbers or actual gameplay or chances or similar. I mean, again, i pretty much went with a wall of text there and wanted just to start something for people to see that "you know, the other opinion is there and "might" be even the better one" but so far, all i see (for the most part) is "nah, grace is better coz its for the lazy people"...

Edited by Leon-Darkheart
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Am 4.6.2021 um 22:03 schrieb Leon-Darkheart:

Since i play around now for a long time and was literally bored with some of my builds i tested some "stuff" and actually came to a statement. This might be a personal opinion BUT:

Arcane victory is way much better than the harder to get arcane Grace.

 

Listen, before you go on and already throw literally knifes at me, hear me out and let me explain why for a moment.

A lot people love to put just arcane grace in their warframes since it seems like the "go to" arcane for, as sample, a lot warframe youtubers. when ever you watch a youtube video about a warframe build you see literally (if its not a melee frame...) 2 arcanes which are: Energize AND Grace.

For people which doesnt know: Arcance energize gives you and your team mates, which HAVE to be "around" you, when you pick up energie up to an extra 150 energie which sure is cool and helpful and no doubt, hats down, holes in the cheese, is just good and doesnt need to explained further why everyone and his grandson uses it.

HOWEVER~

In the other hand, people uses the arcane grace which has a pretty itzy bitzy tiny chance (even on rank 5...which is just 9%) to when ever you get hit/direct damage on your HEALTH (aka when your shield is gone or similar) that youre able to recover some said health back. In fact, on the highest rank its 6% of your max health per second 9 seconds long, making a total of wooping 54% of your health back in 9 seconds.

This all sounds good and great and might be an "emergency tool" which CAN help you if you get shot in your tiny ninja toes and begin to bleed out coz some enemy across the map had to sniper your said toes from accross the map.

BUT THAN I HAVE TO REMIND YOU:

- Even on rank 5, the chance is just 9% so calculating it, its not even every 10th shot of an enemy that your "regen" arcane magic will happen.

- You HAVE to be damaged FIRST before the buff actually CAN hit you with said chance, making an impact of an mine feels like the old german saying "its so much easier to move if the pain goes away".

So if you think about that overall, in higher difficulties, the chance youre getting such arcane buff are literally near to ZERO since the enemies make way to fast way to much damage on your health that you might already just run into the enemies with no weapons and give them a hug wile they literally blast your feet away.

 

In the other hand...

Say hello to mommy arcane Victory~

Arcane victory works as followed:

Arcane victory provides a chance to gain health regeneration for a short time upon achieving a head shot kill.

Ok, hold on this sounds now like the "total opposite" but think about it for a second: When are you in "need" of health? If you are in a fight and hold your position OR if you already nearly out of breath and TRY to hold your position? Again, if your shield is down and you have to literally "wait" till a low chance arcane "suddendly triggers" with a chance from just 9% on full rank, you will know BUT OH BOI lets compare that to an arcane which has a trigger chance on headshots from freaking 75% mah boi!

Yes, On full rank, Arcane Victory has a trigger chance from 75% on each headshot kill and since Warframe is SO broken sometimes that you can even GET such kill by just swinging a freaking sword at some people in their kneecaps and it STILL counts as headS-H-O-T kill, you can guess how often THIS will trigger compared to grace and its 9% chance.

Ok now i can already hear people screaming in the background "But DUUUUUUUUDE! grace heals you 6%/sec for 9 seconds full rank wile victory only heals you 3%/sec for 9 seconds!!!!111one"

Granted, Grace is ABLE to heal you more and faster in the same time as victory would - which is "just" 3%/sec for 9 seconds so "only" 27% (about half what grace WOULD heal) of your total health

BUT

Compare a 9% getting damaged on YOUR health chance to a killing YOUR enemy with a headshot 75% chance here and you can already see who will be able to stay longer in fire fights.

And again:

- Arcane victory is able to trigger ALL THE GAWD DANG TIME with FULL health and FULL shield wile for grace you literally HAVE to take health damage first, making the acrane victory basicly something like an "all time pretty good health regan" opinion than an actual "emergency tool" arcane grace is.

- Youre MORE likely to get health from actually KILLING enemies FIRST than actually getting SHOT first.

- Victory is also WAY cheaper AND easier to get (Plat wise) than Grace for what ever reason.

- The differ of the chances are just...WAY to high. Again: we are talking 9% GETTING shot VS 75% KILLING someone, basicly.

 

So yea, after testing that, judge me here but my point stands that im more likely to use the arcane victory than arcane grace. Its just way to good and helps you survive better in the long run and fights. Whats your opinion? Maybe you can change ma mind boi but i doubt. I mean See my points there? wanna say somthin? lets go than!

But yea, sure, tell me what you think about this opinion and which of the arcanes YOU think is better and why. Would be nice to know actually.

 

interesting experience. I don't think much of grace. why invest for something like that when there are other skills. operator arcane or vaz dash. they are much more reliable. and when i need healing, enemies do BURST DAMAGE! yes burst damage !!!
and with inaros hardly anyone will stand afk in the corner. with adaptation it doesn't go down at all. besides, most of them have panzer pet with heal mod on it or fetishists also use armor arcane. then it is almost impossible to die.

and many warframes can hardly be killed on SP. so i just take more damage for mele or other weapons. is worth a lot more!
in addition, the costs for certain arcanes are too high. and these heliungs things are probably only interesting for beginners.

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51 minutes ago, Leon-Darkheart said:

well duh. sorry but same can be said with grace: if you dont get shot in your ninja toes, you dont grain health back as well. :3

You didn't read any of my post after the sentence you quoted, did you?  If you had, you would know that we were comparing SpoilerMode arcanes and Victory; Grace has nothing to do with it.

54 minutes ago, Leon-Darkheart said:

Srsly to say AND ask: Do you guys have really such "hardcore" problems to aim on the gigantic heads warframe enemys actually have?

Again, I suggest that you finish reading my post you replied to.  I guarantee that if you read it in good faith, your question will be more than answered.

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