Smeeta multiple affinity charms ending when the first charm timer finishes

[-AncientWarrior-]

Heya fello Tennos,

I have been noticing a strange issue with Smeeta Affinity charms lately and just wondering if anyone has experienced this, if its a known bug or what... 

What I am  seeing is:-

My KubaKat Smeeta gives me an affinity charm .. during the 156 seconds I get a second affinity charm.. (I go into operator and see a different affinity timer counting down and it says Affinity) but what is happening sometimes is when the first charm timer ends, even if I still see time remaining on my second charm, both affinity timers abruptly finish and I only get a single charm buff pickup not the second  .. Ill try to get some screenshots later today but thought someone might know of this and be able to help?  It doesnt happen all the time but often enough to have a noticable affect on my Kuva count at the end of the survival runs.

I am using Khora and have no primary or secondary weapons equipped if that makes a difference at all to this issue.  My Smeeta has Charm mod, fetch, tek enhance, tek assault, primed animal instinct, primed pack leader, synth fiber and the 3 link mods. 

Ive seen this happening for a little while but thought it might have been just me but my clan mates have now witnessed this as well.. I was thinking that due to the fact I dont get the reload buff charm (even though we hear the charm noise) if this was affecting the other charm timers?

Edited from yesterday: 
100min Requiem Survival run ..  sorry in advance for the image placement and long winded story ..  anyway ..

this was a double charm I tried to capture this happening .. first image shows 40.2 sec left on affinity buff at 18:54

second image you can see 7.5 sec at 19:26 and down the bottom 1000 affinity - still double charm running

this image 1 second later into operator and we can see 35.7 sec affinity which was ticking down, now there was only 7.5 sec left on the first charm @19:26

@19:33 first charm was just about to run out and still had second charm of 29.5 second left

this image less than a second later just as the first affinity charm finished the 29.5 sec remaining of the second disappears.. and the pickups were straight back to non-charm pickup amounts.

 

Now I thought about this and maybe it was just as the others above said, very politely I might add .. "its just me seeing more into this than what is actually happening", but the difference is during this run we had 2 Khoras running the same build with no guns only melee, and a wisp with guns, the 2 Khoras got very similar amounts of Kuva ..  I think the totals were 70.7k and 71.3k, which is what we normally see in these runs we all seem to get around the same figures on average, but the Wisp with the guns in his loadout got more than 10k above our figures.. and the wisp got many more double buffs where as both Khoras only got 1 or 2 each, even though we each saw double charms hit we only were getting 2x amounts..    

Where this gets even more interesting is during the next run I did some checking, i.e.  single affinity charm, go into operator, there is no extra affinity timer running.. double charm running go into operator the extra charm timer was there.. several times over the next 2hrs I checked it happens sometimes that the second charm buff timer stays after the first one finishes and then sometimes the second one disappears exactly when the first timer runs out. 

What I did notice is when the sound of a charm happened but no visual display of any charm appeared .. this seemed to be when this disappearing timer occurred.   (definately needs more testing)

I find this really interesting as I said to one of the Tennos who responded to the initial post I have done hundreds of these missions as Kuva is all I really play for in the game atm, and I keep a close eye on the buffs, which ones they are, what they are, how long they have to run etc etc.. and this is recent development for me.. again I may be totally wrong and being an old fart I could understand that.. But.. KubaKat is working hard to get me my Kuba buffs and to see them disappearing when they normally didnt .. this definately perked my interest...  maybe the way of checking the affinity buffs was altered at some stage.. idk but what I see is I / we are losing out on duration of some of the affinity buffs .. and damn that mean less stuff.. and I like the red stuff! 

Cheers, from Ancient Tenno

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

My Impression

is that the Timer changing when going into Operator mode is just a Visual Glitch

and does Not Represent a second timer for the second buff or anything useful

 

Because, even with a single buff, I've seen the timer change numbers when viewed in Operator. And the buff lost effect based on the Warframe timer numbers, not the Op numbers.

 

So, if your only measure of buff running out early is that OP Timer, then its possible there's actually nothing amiss. Timer in Op mode cannot be trusted. Next time use a pair of IRL stopwatches.

[Lutesque]

On 2021-06-05 at 11:06 AM, -AncientWarrior- said:

yes I understand this but its not what Im trying to say.. whats happening is both timers ending ..

I have a question.... When was Charm's Interface updated to show Multiple Timers ? Because this is new to me 😱 !!!

[x_xGamerx_x]

On 2021-06-06 at 3:28 AM, -AncientWarrior- said:

why then does it sometimes have an affect and sometime it doesnt,

Are you hosting the missions or not that could be the problem. Edit: if not than thats the problem with a peer to peer matchmaking :D

-Thats why you should get the frame time 

On 2021-06-06 at 3:28 AM, -AncientWarrior- said:

What I have been seeing is the second buffs time remaining disappearing as soon as the first one does.. this shouldn't be happening.. each buff should last the full 156 sec yes?

Yes, each drop buff does have its own timer. 

[x_xGamerx_x]

On 2021-06-05 at 6:39 AM, -AncientWarrior- said:

go into operator, there is no extra affinity timer running.. double charm running go into operator the extra charm timer was there

On 2021-06-05 at 6:39 AM, -AncientWarrior- said:

this image less than a second later just as the first affinity charm finished the 29.5 sec remaining of the second disappears.. and the pickups were straight back to non-charm pickup amounts.

Ok so i looked at the screenshots you provided. Kinda off that operators dont share the same timer as the frame - maybe i gotta look into it. Nevertheless...

 

So the first 2x drop buff from 19.26 which lasts 7.5 sec meaining it is over at 19.33. I think that this false time from your operators is misleading as you should get the timer from your frame (btw are you hosting these missions?)

 

 

 

 

 

 

----

On 2021-06-05 at 6:39 AM, -AncientWarrior- said:

KubaKat is working hard to get me my Kuba

WTB reliable buff procing cat

[-AncientWarrior-]

40 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

Glitches don't have to be Consistent. They can be influenced by random factors that you aren't expecting; this is why they're Glitches.

So even if the timer is right Usually, but there's a chance it can Sometimes glitch out and be wrong, then you can't trust its validity at Any Time. Because you'd never know for sure if the current instance is or is not glitched.

 

You've seen the op timer be accurate, I've seen the op timer be inaccurate. Therefore, the timer is Not Always accurate.

Not Always Accurate is not good enough.

Sorry you lost me a bit here, you said your impression was its a visual glitch, then it shouldnt have any affect on the said buff rewards yes? why then does it sometimes have an affect and sometime it doesnt, this seems to me to be more than a visual glitch .... but I think we have slid sideways and focused on the timers not on the lose of the buffs.. What I have been seeing is the second buffs time remaining disappearing as soon as the first one does.. this shouldn't be happening.. each buff should last the full 156 sec yes? .. they overlap for a period of time which creates the 4x 8x 16x 32x .. with staggered times diminishing according to when they were triggered based on the previous buff..  first one expires at 156, second 156 sec after it triggered etc etc.. but what we have noticed is the second one sometimes doesn't do this, and no it's not consistant but it has happened enough to be noticed by us farming the red gold.  DE could just put each affinity timer up as its own separate display icon and that would surely prove/solve the issue.

if its being influenced by random factors thats a bigger problem surely, random factors in this type of mechanic would be a worry for any programmer, (if random factors can affect this where/what else in the games code is it affecting) ...  But anyway its not why I posted this.. to me its something that is strange and interesting and I for one would love to know what is causing it.. -CdG-Zilchy has said its been around for a while now, so I have obviously missed this until update 29.0 or around then, but I thought it good to get input from fellow tenno who understand the game mechanics and to see if there are work arounds, lately I have seen too many double scratches become nada after the first one times out.. 

[-AncientWarrior-]

44 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

I've never checked it in operator mode but I can tell you that since we got Tek Enhance and I was farming Toroids in a group in Orb Vallis I was noticing the timer for each buff so yeh, it's been like that for a long time now.

cheers for that ..

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

2 minutes ago, -AncientWarrior- said:

If this is the case it should be consistant.. its not, we have seen timers in op accurately display the buffs..

Glitches don't have to be Consistent. They can be influenced by random factors that you aren't expecting; this is why they're Glitches.

So even if the timer is right Usually, but there's a chance it can Sometimes glitch out and be wrong, then you can't trust its validity at Any Time. Because you'd never know for sure if the current instance is or is not glitched.

 

You've seen the op timer be accurate, I've seen the op timer be inaccurate. Therefore, the timer is Not Always accurate.

Not Always Accurate is not good enough.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 hour ago, -AncientWarrior- said:

Now thats interesting that you say this, as I always have used the same method to check if the 2x 4x 8x etc is running, go into operator to see if an extra timer is running .. but I havent noticed the timer just disappearing while there was still time on the clock.. damn if this is the case, and you say this is how its meant to work thats a bit confusing as in, why would a timer be counting down and disappear before it reached zero?  Well anyway, I don't like it one bit, I'm old and grumpy .. I want those extra second back, do you realise how much of that red gold I have missed out on by this time displacement .. (eerie sound goes here) ..  ;)  Ok coffee then back to Kuva Survival ..

I've never checked it in operator mode but I can tell you that since we got Tek Enhance and I was farming Toroids in a group in Orb Vallis I was noticing the timer for each buff so yeh, it's been like that for a long time now.

[-AncientWarrior-]

9 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

My Impression

is that the Timer changing when going into Operator mode is just a Visual Glitch

and does Not Represent a second timer for the second buff or anything useful

 

Because, even with a single buff, I've seen the timer change numbers when viewed in Operator. And the buff lost effect based on the Warframe timer numbers, not the Op numbers.

 

So, if your only measure of buff running out early is that OP Timer, then its possible there's actually nothing amiss. Timer in Op mode cannot be trusted. Next time use a pair of IRL stopwatches.

If this is the case it should be consistant.. its not, we have seen timers in op accurately display the buffs.. my main issue is why is it there in the first place, why does it happen sometimes and not other times, why when we picked up items sometimes when we see a double scratch, it give correct amount (4x) yet when the first timer stops it picks up normal amount not a 2x for the remaining time.. 

[-AncientWarrior-]

11 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

It made sense lol. 

I've always seen the extra buff run out so it sounds like it's working correctly to me.

Now thats interesting that you say this, as I always have used the same method to check if the 2x 4x 8x etc is running, go into operator to see if an extra timer is running .. but I havent noticed the timer just disappearing while there was still time on the clock.. damn if this is the case, and you say this is how its meant to work thats a bit confusing as in, why would a timer be counting down and disappear before it reached zero?  Well anyway, I don't like it one bit, I'm old and grumpy .. I want those extra second back, do you realise how much of that red gold I have missed out on by this time displacement .. (eerie sound goes here) ..  ;)  Ok coffee then back to Kuva Survival ..

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 hour ago, -AncientWarrior- said:

I have only been seeing this since I think 29.0 update or around that time.. Ive never seen the buff timers stop when the first one runs out.. A few minutes ago we were running Requiem K Survival and got a double buff.. 156.. run down to 86 approx, then got the second buff, back to 156 again.. so the first buff still should have run for 50 odd seconds and then it should be down to the 2x buff for its remainder of its time, but it didnt..  second buff still had 60 odd second to run and it disappeared.. damn i hope that makes some kind of sense .. 

 

It made sense lol. 

I've always seen the extra buff run out so it sounds like it's working correctly to me.

[RazerXPrime]

Damn that's a nasty bug if it's true.

[-AncientWarrior-]

2 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

This has always been the case,  players just didn't notice it as much before Tek Enhance was added.

I have only been seeing this since I think 29.0 update or around that time.. Ive never seen the buff timers stop when the first one runs out.. A few minutes ago we were running Requiem K Survival and got a double buff.. 156.. run down to 86 approx, then got the second buff, back to 156 again.. so the first buff still should have run for 50 odd seconds and then it should be down to the 2x buff for its remainder of its time, but it didnt..  second buff still had 60 odd second to run and it disappeared.. damn i hope that makes some kind of sense .. 

 

[-AncientWarrior-]

2 hours ago, x_xGamerx_x said:

Yes a common misconcept. All your smeeta buffs have their own duration.

Example:

Say you get the 2x drop buff and you have on that 156s duration. Now you get a second 2x drop buff at the 17s mark. Visually the latter buff is displayed, giving you the false impression of having the 4x drop buff for 156s, however that is not true. 

You have the first buff still running on its 17s duration, while the last one is running for 156s. So you have an effective time of 17s for 4x drops. And after these 17s its back to 2x drops.

yes I understand this but its not what Im trying to say.. whats happening is both timers ending .. when, in the case you've suggested at the end of the 17s buff the other one should still be running for the remaining time of its buff.. but its not .. both are ending when the first buff runs out.. damn its hard to explain.. Ill try to get a video of it as its much easier to see..  I run tons of Kuva survivals and we wait for the buffs before cracking the towers .. so we are always aware of the buff timers, especially 2x 4x and 8x .. but recently they have all been disappearing when the first buff ends ..

[-CdG-Zilchy]

This has always been the case,  players just didn't notice it as much before Tek Enhance was added.

[x_xGamerx_x]

1 hour ago, -AncientWarrior- said:

when the first charm timer ends, even if I still see time remaining on my second charm, both affinity timers abruptly finish and I only get a single charm buff pickup not the second

Yes a common misconcept. All your smeeta buffs have their own duration.

Example:

Say you get the 2x drop buff and you have on that 156s duration. Now you get a second 2x drop buff at the 17s mark. Visually the latter buff is displayed, giving you the false impression of having the 4x drop buff for 156s, however that is not true. 

You have the first buff still running on its 17s duration, while the last one is running for 156s. So you have an effective time of 17s for 4x drops. And after these 17s its back to 2x drops.