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I feel like the devs are becoming a little overeager implementing staggering attacks


Xana_Skullsunder
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I just went through 3 different activities and was really frustrated by the amount of of ways our warframes get knocked around.

First Instance- Infested Disruption, Ur, Uranus. I realize I've gone the wrong way and a Demolyst is getting close to the conduit. Okay, not a huge deal, I've been killing them pretty fast, I just need to turn arou-
Stagger
Okay, I've still got time, but I really need t-
Stagger
I can hear the Demolyst, I need to get out of this corridor and back to-
Knockdown
Conduit Destroyed
🙃

Second Instance: Railjack. I'm out in Archwing mode after clearing a side objective, I see the ship is getting swarmed and think I may as well try to shoot down some fighters. I'm using Elytron, so I don't have any defensive abilities, but at least I can pop Thumper and deal some damage while I try to line up a shot with my Phaedr-
Stagger
Oh god not this again, I just wanna shoot down a single fight-
Stagger
Please game I'm begging you, I actually leveled my Archwing kit I wanna us-
Stagger
Can't I ju-
Stagger
😑

Third Instance: Mining on Deimos, I'm not even going to type out what happened because you know what happened if you've been paying any attention. I clear the enemies around me when I get a chance, but switching back between melee and my mining laser is clunky and obnoxious and I just wanna mine I'm not even trying to pick fights at this point please DE stop making enemies stagger me I just wanna play the game.
😭

I get it, frames are pretty tanky these days, and you need more ways to make the combat engaging so we don't just hold M1 and delete everything on screen with an Ignis Wraith but tossing me around like a dust bunny inside a dyson is not a fun time either. Maybe we could get some sort of grace period between staggers at least? On the railjack example the entire exchange took place within about 5 seconds.

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Primed Sure Footed. Handspring. Pain Threshold. Negate. Negation Swarm. Iron Skin. Warding Halo. Kinetic Plating. Not-Using-Elytron for any Archwing activity. Any and all forms of Crowd Control(includes death of the enemy). Invisibility. Hell, even NYX. 

Just Adapt. 

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1 hour ago, Xana_Skullsunder said:

Infested Disruption [...] Archwing [...] Mining on Deimos

On foot, use one of the many mods or abilities that help with staggers and/or knock downs. Or CC enemies before they stagger you. In Archwing, use Amesha. It is the only Archwing, the others are handicaps. If you want to mine in peace, use invisibility and the silence upgrade.

"I want to play the game how I like to, and not be forced to put in effort to overcome problems!" Play Hello Kitty Island Adventure then.

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Posted (edited)

It's annoying, and I'll maintain that it's annoying, and we should have more AW choices than the one with an actual invincibility, and more counterplay than "slap a mod on it."

Edited by Xana_Skullsunder
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1 hour ago, Xana_Skullsunder said:

and more counterplay than "slap a mod on it."

For regular play, rolls, and well-timed ability usage make you temporarily immune to most staggers, and jumps work with some of them.   Some melee weapon attacks used to do so as well, but I'm not sure if this is still the case.  For self-staggers there is a jump counter...but this is tricky for me to pull off and not that useful when I do IMO.

Since you used the word "counterplay" I'd presume you don't care as much about longer term immunity.  But if you do, your choices are slapping a mod or mods on it, using a frame that has stagger immunity/helminthing Spellbind , or relying on CC / Invisibility / long range damage / enemy ability suppression to lower the frequency of staggers.

My knowledge of Archwing is rudimentary, so if there are more options there I'll leave it to someone else to talk about them.

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4 hours ago, ShichiseitenYasha said:

Primed Sure Footed. Handspring. Pain Threshold. Negate. Negation Swarm. Iron Skin. Warding Halo. Kinetic Plating. Not-Using-Elytron for any Archwing activity. Any and all forms of Crowd Control(includes death of the enemy). Invisibility. Hell, even NYX. 

Just Adapt. 

what you say is true, but overall your solution boils down to "become immune to bad design".. How about we'd just stop with bad designs?

It's not that difficult, really. Plenty of games did it right, or.. less wrong.

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15 minutes ago, deothor said:

what you say is true, but overall your solution boils down to "become immune to bad design".. How about we'd just stop with bad designs?

It's not that difficult, really. Plenty of games did it right, or.. less wrong.

Warframe isn't those games. 

Stagger, at this point, is insanely easy to overcome due to the wellspring of equipment we have to avoid it. It was designed to be countered by just using one of those items. The entire point of the modding system. 

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Posted (edited)

I absolutely hate these incessant staggering effects/knockdowns built into the weapons’ animation as we use them or from enemies. Who come up with these ideas? They kill the signature and smooth game flow Warframe used to have. 
DE please remove all of them from weapons and from most ordinary enemies. 

Edited by George_PPS
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24 minutes ago, George_PPS said:

I absolutely hate these incessant staggering effects/knockdowns built into the weapons’ animation as we use them (...) . Who come up with these ideas?

People: "Self-damage is bad and frustrating."

Me and others: "No! Don't say it!"

People: "Self-damage should be removed from the game."

Monkey Paw DE: "Ok."

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4 hours ago, ShichiseitenYasha said:

Warframe isn't those games. 

Stagger, at this point, is insanely easy to overcome due to the wellspring of equipment we have to avoid it. It was designed to be countered by just using one of those items. The entire point of the modding system. 

Open your eyes to see all the PERVASIVE implementations of staggers and knockdowns knock downs since 2017. They are NOT fun. They kill the flows of the game. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

sure footed arcane for the operator would be nice + a mod for archwing, if you slightly touch any surface you do the same annoying roll like when you crash into a wall with godspeed.

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On 2021-06-05 at 7:37 PM, ShichiseitenYasha said:

Primed Sure Footed. Handspring. Pain Threshold. Negate. Negation Swarm. Iron Skin. Warding Halo. Kinetic Plating. Not-Using-Elytron for any Archwing activity. Any and all forms of Crowd Control(includes death of the enemy). Invisibility. Hell, even NYX. 

Band Aids are Not Solutions....

 

On 2021-06-05 at 7:51 PM, SpicyDinosaur said:

Elytron got nerfed into the ground an eternity ago, for what it is worth. Thumper used to be amazing. It's like Itzal's 1, they just never changed anything to make it functional again.

Well.... If they do make it functional again.... Il be ready.... I dedicated one Affinity Booster Weekend exclusively to Levelling Up and Optimising Every single Archwing.... 

The only way DE is going to catch me off guard is if they add a new Archwing all together 😈 !!!

On 2021-06-05 at 8:22 PM, Traumtulpe said:

 

"I want to play the game how I like to, and not be forced to put in effort to overcome problems!" Play Hello Kitty Island Adventure then.

You know what.... I think I will... Hmmmmmmph 😤 !!!

On 2021-06-06 at 12:28 AM, ShichiseitenYasha said:

Warframe isn't those games. 

Stagger, at this point, is insanely easy to overcome due to the wellspring of equipment we have to avoid it. It was designed to be countered by just using one of those items. The entire point of the modding system. 

If that were actually true then there's no reason to keep the Stagger Mechanic.... Am I wrong ?

I'm fairly Staggers aren't so easy to overcome for everyone else as it is for you.... You just happen to enjoy using one of the options that allow you to avoid staggers hence you think it's easy to avoid them.... 

On 2021-06-06 at 4:25 AM, RazerXPrime said:

I hardly ever get staggered unless I shoot a point blank ogris. I don't use sure footed mod. What the hell are you doing that you get staggered all the time?

Playing Normally from what I can read.... 

You can't even accuse OP for being too passive because his first example explains how he got Chain Staggered while he was In motion.

Also fun fact.... You can get Chain Staggered in other games too.... I was playing Tomb Raider, Assassin's Creed and Far Cry Primal recently and I got Chain Knocked down into death in all 3 Games.... Far Cry Primal being the worst of the three because Of the Sabretooth Tiger, it's the Fastest Creature in Oros, it's deals the most Damage and it has.... The 2nd Highest Health among all the predator's.... It can Chain Knockdown You into a guaranteed death.... All Predatory Beasts are also excluded from the Hunter Vision Highlight Feature so they always See you before you can see them....

I guess I just find it funny to encounter something  that's just as bad as it is in Warframe.... It doesn't happen often but atleast now I know for sure other Developers suck at these things too sometimes.... It's not just DE 😝 !!!!

 

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It's only oppressive against high level (steel path) infested.  I think infested need an overhaul, not staggering itself.  As others have said, we have plenty of ways to mitigate it.  Infested are the culprit here:

  • too many CC attacks
  • unreadable animations
  • messy ancient auras and clouds result in visual chaos
  • too much access to untelegraphed bypassing of shield gate (one hit kills)
  • inconsistent headshots and other weak points
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On 2021-06-05 at 2:16 PM, Xana_Skullsunder said:

Mining on Deimos, I'm not even going to type out what happened because you know what happened if you've been paying any attention. I clear the enemies around me when I get a chance, but switching back between melee and my mining laser is clunky and obnoxious and I just wanna mine I'm not even trying to pick fights at this point please DE stop making enemies stagger me I just wanna play the game.

in deimos, fishing is even worse, enemies encounters scares fish away.
the resources to fish on deimos are expensive and enemies make you lose fishing if your frame is not invisible.

looks nice there could be a feature to fend off enemies while fishing, but if you wield a weapon the item starts a cooldown timer 60s

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10 hours ago, Joezone619 said:

I agree, have you ever tried to list off everything that staggers you? I have, the list is grotesquely large for how stagger mechanics should work.

Conversely, I imagine the lists for other forms of player-affecting CC are grotesquely short for how those mechanics "should work".

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