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Why not add PVE conclave?


Jackdarsan
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So for all the die hard Conclave players, DE should keep what exists, no change to your PVP progress or leader boards, etc. 

Since DE don't seem to care enough to make the conclave rep be attainable by alternative methods. Just suggesting, since conclave is dead, to add additional PVE game modes or an option to only do PVE conclave,  that allow people to play conclave games. Kind of like a steel path Sedna arena/Index but on steroids.

The conclave games look like fun but its way behind the rest of the game unless you join dedicated discords or make premade groups which I don't think is something that DE intended.   

This could then bring in the options to have money making items come into the game like dedicated skins or items which should make it appealing enough for DE to do something. 

#Make Conclave great again

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Conclave can die its slow inevitable death. After being so adamant about it never being a part of warframe i was stunned when they decided to include it.

There are more important things needing work than the conclave anyhow.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, ---RV---Maniac said:

Destiny has pretty fun pve modes where 2 squads fight against each other in pve settings.
Warframe could work that into their game modes and make conclave more enjoyable for a lot of people. 

The problem of PVE conclave would be the same as PVP conclave. If you're allowed to use PVE loadouts then there is a wild disparity between high end players and low end players.

If they did passive PVPVE (compete but do not physically interact with one another. IE no player killing) this could be pretty fun. 

Edited by Leqesai
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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Jackdarsan said:

So for all the die hard Conclave players, DE should keep what exists, no change to your PVP progress or leader boards, etc. 

Since DE don't seem to care enough to make the conclave rep be attainable by alternative methods. Just suggesting, since conclave is dead, to add additional PVE game modes or an option to only do PVE conclave,  that allow people to play conclave games. Kind of like a steel path Sedna arena/Index but on steroids.

The conclave games look like fun but its way behind the rest of the game unless you join dedicated discords or make premade groups which I don't think is something that DE intended.   

This could then bring in the options to have money making items come into the game like dedicated skins or items which should make it appealing enough for DE to do something. 

#Make Conclave great again

How about no. U posted #make conclave great again but what you're suggesting has nothing to do with conclave at all. Just another case of pve players being salty they cant get the rewards without playing conclave.  Dude just go play conclave its not hard to farm standing lol just play the game ffs. Conclave is PVP 

Edited by (XBOX)GameGhost123
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9 hours ago, (XBOX)GameGhost123 said:

How about no. U posted #make conclave great again but what you're suggesting has nothing to do with conclave at all. Just another case of pve players being salty they cant get the rewards without playing conclave.  Dude just go play conclave its not hard to farm standing lol just play the game ffs. Conclave is PVP 

This response clearly shows you are the salty one. The suggestion is addition too conclave not a change to it. Soo..... if you could read you would of understood that. 

Conclave is dead and its people lie you that are keeping it dead. 

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On 2021-06-06 at 7:20 PM, Zhoyzu said:

Conclave can die its slow inevitable death. After being so adamant about it never being a part of warframe i was stunned when they decided to include it.

There are more important things needing work than the conclave anyhow.

Why are you posting in the Conclave section if you don't want it to exist? As for more important things, Conclave isn't currently taking resources away from anything. 

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4 hours ago, Jackdarsan said:

This response clearly shows you are the salty one. The suggestion is addition too conclave not a change to it. Soo..... if you could read you would of understood that. 

Conclave is dead and its people lie you that are keeping it dead. 

I think you're right but to be fair, I think this needs to be understood with some historical context. In Warframe there has been a long history of PvE-Only players insisting that they deserve PvP rewards even without playing PvP. These kinds of requests often come with some really harsh, mean insults towards anybody who plays / enjoys Conclave. 

Due to this history, many Conclave players nowadays respond negatively to any new requests for PvE to reward PvP items (as you saw above!). In your case, you did not make any insults towards the PvP community in your request, in fact you even made sure to state that the current conclave should be maintained for its fans! So I think we should try to be a bit nicer :)

Unfortunately, I don't really agree with your idea as stated. Different game-modes have their own rewards, and if you offer the rewards from a specific game-mode in another way, players will flock to whichever one is the easiest / fastest.

For example, Arcanes are primarily earned through Eidolon hunting. This is a nice and unique game-mode requiring specific knowledge and tactics. It would be much faster and easier for players if Arcanes were also rewarded from all capture missions on the star chart, but that would greatly diminish the number of players willing to try the unique and interesting mechanics of Eidolon hunts.

In the same way, if Conclave rewards were available in PvE then nobody would even try the unique and interesting gameplay of Conclave! However, I think there's still room for us to agree.

An extra variable is the time required to obtain an item. For example, if it took 1000 captures to obtain an Arcane, then people would still do Eidolon hunts, even though the captures are easier. So I agree with you that conclave standing should be earned in PvE, but it should be extremely slow in comparison to the actual PvP conclave. Even a player who joins a conclave match and performs extremely badly should earn way more than somebody doing PvE / fighting bots, etc... I think this is the right way to go, because it would allow people to dip their toes in conclave to get a feeling for the mode, without the pressure of farming standing, before trying it against other players. The standing gained is infinitesimal, so once the player feels ready then they can start gaining real standing by joining the real Conclave.

I think that is an idea we could all get behind :) and might boost the popularity of Conclave over the long term! Let me know what you think.

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23 hours ago, Jackdarsan said:

This response clearly shows you are the salty one. The suggestion is addition too conclave not a change to it. Soo..... if you could read you would of understood that. 

Conclave is dead and its people lie you that are keeping it dead. 

I apologize I agree with what sevek said I could have responded a little better. U did say to keep conclave the way it is i respect that. Unfortunately also like sevek I don't agree with your idea conclave is pvp and what u had suggested was make conclave have a pve mode. Doing that will make players only play the pve version it will not "#make conclave great again" as u said. Alot of players just want alternative ways to farm conclave standing that's not pvp. Sorry for assuming that was u there's just alot of ppl like that on the forums.

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19 hours ago, Sevek7 said:

I think that is an idea we could all get behind :) and might boost the popularity of Conclave over the long term! Let me know what you think.

To be fair, was this not effectively how universal medallions could have operated (perhaps with an adjustment to standing for Conclave) before they were dropped from Conclave applicability? I certainly am for having alternate ways to gain Conclave standing, and always stand behind making those rewards tradeable so there is less requirement to play to get those things, but still incentive for those willing - the same format we have for Arcanes, for example. But I feel like we were right at the precipice of that idea becoming reality and it was yoinked away because of the strict "PvP (stuff) must come from PvP" philosophy.

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Just now, Tyreaus said:

To be fair, was this not effectively how universal medallions could have operated (perhaps with an adjustment to standing for Conclave) before they were dropped from Conclave applicability? I certainly am for having alternate ways to gain Conclave standing, and always stand behind making those rewards tradeable so there is less requirement to play to get those things, but still incentive for those willing - the same format we have for Arcanes, for example. But I feel like we were right at the precipice of that idea becoming reality and it was yoinked away because of the strict "PvP (stuff) must come from PvP" philosophy.

Yeah I think Conclave players had a knee-jerk reaction to the universal medallions. DE had stopped fixing Conclave bugs for over a year and then suddenly announced that we can earn the rewards through PvE instead. It sounded bad! However, as you point out, if we had taken the time to do the math, we would have realized that earning Conclave rewards through medallions would be an unbearable grind (I think someone made a calculation that it would take several thousand hours to get a decent chunk of the Conclave items by farming medallions). So in hindsight we should probably have welcomed the medallions, since players would likely give up the grind and actually try Conclave itself instead! 

It's easier to see with hindsight ;)

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On 2021-06-09 at 3:43 AM, Sevek7 said:

Yeah I think Conclave players had a knee-jerk reaction to the universal medallions.

Based on what i've seen, most conclave regulars don't even care about exclusive rewards and wouldn't even mind to see those dumb low resolution skins and the sigils being obtained in some other way as long as conclave got to see a blance pass, bug fixes (hasn't it been almost 2 years and Telos Boltace remains bugged?), proper matchmaking and perhaps useful rewards instead of pointless "prestige" stuff.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Sevek7 said:

Yeah I think Conclave players had a knee-jerk reaction to the universal medallions.

As far as I recall, it was one tweet, DE saying "makes sense" to that tweet, and everyone else kind of shrugging with general apathy - what with Conclave being such a small thing in the first place. I think the strict form of the philosophy is owned more by DE than any playerbase (like Legacy above mentions).

6 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Based on what i've seen, most conclave regulars don't even care about exclusive rewards and wouldn't even mind to see those dumb low resolution skins and the sigils being obtained in some other way as long as conclave got to see a blance pass, bug fixes (hasn't it been almost 2 years and Telos Boltace remains bugged?), proper matchmaking and perhaps useful rewards instead of pointless "prestige" stuff.

Hard not to see a touch of Stockholm Syndrome or something I'm not a psychiatrist. "We'll do anything, make the rewards free, just give us something!"

(That's a joke, mind. Well, partly...)

Edited by Tyreaus
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21 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

As far as I recall, it was one tweet, DE saying "makes sense" to that tweet, and everyone else kind of shrugging with general apathy - what with Conclave being such a small thing in the first place. I think the strict form of the philosophy is owned more by DE than any playerbase (like Legacy above mentions).

The tweet was obviously written by someone who "farmed" Conclave to get the rewards, enjoyed their feeling of exclusivity, and wanted to continue feeling exclusive despite not even enjoying Conclave. That was not the same feeling that the Conclave community had, in general. Nevertheless, the community did have complaints.

I was active on the Conclave discord at the time, and there were big complaints from many in the Conclave community when DE first floated the idea of the medallions. There were also forum threads where Conclave players complained. The main complaint from Conclave players was not that their rewards were becoming less exclusive, instead the complaint was that this would give DE yet another reason to ignore feedback and let exploits and cheaters run free in Conclave. 

So, as with every narrative, there's a bit of truth but the reality is more nuanced and complicated.

 

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19 hours ago, Sevek7 said:

The tweet was obviously written by someone who "farmed" Conclave to get the rewards, enjoyed their feeling of exclusivity, and wanted to continue feeling exclusive despite not even enjoying Conclave.

Are you a mind reader? You probably should avoid making assumptions of other players, especially if you don't actually know them or at least never had the chance to interact with them.

19 hours ago, Sevek7 said:

That was not the same feeling that the Conclave community had, in general. Nevertheless, the community did have complaints

Of course there would be complaints. DE had not touched conclave in any way for months, perhaps years, and suddenly tje biggest change made is allowing to bypass the mode even harder than it can already be bypassed thanks to the awful matchmaking system. Did you expect players to throw out parties or something?

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18 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Are you a mind reader? You probably should avoid making assumptions of other players, especially if you don't actually know them or at least never had the chance to interact with them.

I based it on the language chosen and the tone of the tweet, as well as the fact that the person was totally unknown to the Conclave community. It's more of an educated guess than an assumption.

18 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Of course there would be complaints. DE had not touched conclave in any way for months, perhaps years, and suddenly tje biggest change made is allowing to bypass the mode even harder than it can already be bypassed thanks to the awful matchmaking system. Did you expect players to throw out parties or something?

Right! Glad we agree. No of course I did not expect parties, I was simply trying to point out that there were more complaints than just a single tweet, and not all of the complaints were the same.

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On 2021-06-08 at 4:29 PM, Sevek7 said:

I think that is an idea we could all get behind :) and might boost the popularity of Conclave over the long term! Let me know what you think.

Look I agree with what you are saying and wanted to reiterate that I would not want to change Conclave. Just trying to think of alternatives that can draw people to this game mode. 

Was even talking to a few people while in a conclave match (yay finally no longer neutral) about alternatives like 'hide and seek'. Either as the frames or objects. 

Or even tag, just alternative game modes that are still PVPish but not killing each other. 

However I still stand to my original post that having a base/practice setting (with hard bots) for each mode that gives little rep would allow more people to get into concalve. Much like the Index quest which gradually got harder to introduce people to that game mode, instead of just leaving it to a side and not explaining what it is for. 

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9 hours ago, Jackdarsan said:

Look I agree with what you are saying and wanted to reiterate that I would not want to change Conclave. Just trying to think of alternatives that can draw people to this game mode. 

Was even talking to a few people while in a conclave match (yay finally no longer neutral) about alternatives like 'hide and seek'. Either as the frames or objects. 

Or even tag, just alternative game modes that are still PVPish but not killing each other. 

However I still stand to my original post that having a base/practice setting (with hard bots) for each mode that gives little rep would allow more people to get into concalve. Much like the Index quest which gradually got harder to introduce people to that game mode, instead of just leaving it to a side and not explaining what it is for. 

From a gameplay perspective, this is hardly new and they already did all these things:

  • PvE Conclave: Index/Rathuum. (The former is what made them change the great compact Gas City map into the big slow one we have now and I fear what they'll do to Outpost when that tile set is reworked.)
     
  • "alternative game modes that are still PVPish but not killing each other": Lunaro was specifically made for people who don't want to shoot each other
     
  • "alternatives that can draw people": Opticor Variant, and the mini-events: Snowday Showdown, Quick Steel, valentine's. These were simple like Dog Days and anyone could hop right in. Removed/never brought back.

What they didn't do yet, but hinted at in streams over a year ago is probably some kind of race/speed running competition (dubbed "Warframekart", "Track & Field").

 

But honestly, before they introduce anything actually new, I'd rather see them fix bugs and exploits in the existing modes or bring back one of those they removed. We all know their ADHD makes them drop proper maintenance on modes after a few months/years in. And at least some maintenance is necessary because they don't bother to properly separate things enough.

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It's a great idea! If DE could develop a player like AI which had a warframe, full set of wepons and full ability set. Although PVE would kinda defeat the purpose of conclave.

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I'd like to see AI in conclave because I never really get to play it. A lich/queenpin pvp mode would be cool too, and a lot more controllable balance wise with the limited amount of weapons. I personally always felt conclave should have a limited set of weapons that can be used because there's too many weapons to balance.

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On 2021-06-09 at 4:43 AM, Sevek7 said:

Yeah I think Conclave players had a knee-jerk reaction to the universal medallions. DE had stopped fixing Conclave bugs for over a year and then suddenly announced that we can earn the rewards through PvE instead. It sounded bad! 

Wasn't it the pve players who already boosted through Conclave that got vocal against the uni meds? Pretty sure most pvp regulars didn't give a shiet and even if they didn't like the idea it would've shut up the idiocracy of those who'd constantly pull random conspiracy against pvp outta thin air, just so they could get easier ways to obtain the rewards or kill the entire section of the game entirely... so they kept quiet about it beside some small discussions.

Putting the ridiculous suggestions aside, that would wreck the entire uni med system to begin with  ofc

Edited by Loxyen
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On 2021-06-18 at 10:42 AM, NecroPed said:

I'd like to see AI in conclave because I never really get to play it. A lich/queenpin pvp mode would be cool too, and a lot more controllable balance wise with the limited amount of weapons. I personally always felt conclave should have a limited set of weapons that can be used because there's too many weapons to balance.

Was thinking like having how Sedna has the arenas (differently level of difficulty with different award structure) , have the AI modes offer very little rep but still give people a chance to play the different conclave modes.  

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On 2021-06-21 at 6:47 PM, Jackdarsan said:

Was thinking like having how Sedna has the arenas (differently level of difficulty with different award structure) , have the AI modes offer very little rep but still give people a chance to play the different conclave modes.  

Conclave is PVP I like your ideas for different game modes to add into the game but conclave standing should come from pvp cuz that's what conclave is. Adding pve modes wouldn't be conclave anymore.  Only thing I'd agree with gaining conclave standing is if they add a pvevp mode like dark sector conflicts. Where players and ai are both fighting against you together.  Not 1 or the other. 

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On 2021-06-17 at 8:42 PM, NecroPed said:

I'd like to see AI in conclave because I never really get to play it. A lich/queenpin pvp mode would be cool too, and a lot more controllable balance wise with the limited amount of weapons. I personally always felt conclave should have a limited set of weapons that can be used because there's too many weapons to balance.

There's not too many weapons to balance.  DE just doesn't balance anything nor care to they put it in conclave and that's it and bugs fixes or balancing that needs to be done either takes a very long time or doesn't get done at all. Most notably how telos boltace's passive is still in conclave when all it would literally take is literally a click of a mouse to remove it. I'd be ok with limited weapon modes. But there's so many fun weapons out there that would be great to use if only conclave was worked on. DE just needs to learn to have at least 1 guy consistently work on conclave cuz this is ridiculous.  Way worse than destiny's situation 

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