A Collection of Suggested Reworks/Revisits to Warframes

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

I wanted to compile all current and future ideas I have for Warframe changes into one post. These are the first few, and I'll be adding more as time goes on, rather than creating multiple posts for each Warframe.

Not every Warframe on here is bad in content, but the main purpose of these changes is to make an entire kit feel good, and move away from the "at least two good abilities" mentality. I'm also not expecting these changes to actually happen, but I'm still designing these kits as if they could actually be implemented.

If you have any questions, criticisms, or ideas of your own (for any frame), I'd love to see them, and I'll try to respond to them all.

Banshee

Spoiler

Passive

• Weapon silencing applies to Banshee and all allies in her affinity radius.

Sonic Boom

• Sonic Boom can be briefly charged by holding the ability key (charge time is identical to Nezha's Blazing Chakram).
  • Uncharged Sonic Boom slows enemies by 30%, scaling with ability strength.
  • Charged Sonic Boom will knock away enemies, applying the same slow and dealing 400 blast damage.
• Sonic Boom will hit enemies at full range through obstacles.
  • Enemies hit through obstacles with a charged Sonic Boom will receive a weaker knock back and less damage.
• Sonic Boom will hit a Sonar weak spot if there is one on the enemy (improved Sonar consistency)

Sonar

• Sonar will highlight weak spots through surfaces for all allies. 
  • Aiming down sights will outline any enemies affected by Sonar.

Silence

• Silence can be recast while active.
• Enemies affected by Silence have a reduced maximum distance that they can spot Banshee and her allies.
• Silence reduces enemy accuracy by 30%, scaling with ability strength up to 75%.

Sound Quake

• Sound Quake gains +200% damage for every Sonar spot on an enemy.
  • Sound Quake will not get a damage multiplier from Sonar, but will trigger Resonance on kills.
  • damage multiplier stacks additively, meaning that having 3 Sonar weak spots on a target will cause Sound Quake to deal +600% damage.
• Using Sonic Boom while channeling Sound Quake will release a Sonic Boom shockwave throughout the area of Sound Quake.

Frost

Spoiler

Stats

• Increased energy to 125 (150 for Prime).
• Reduced shield to 100 (both standard and Prime).
• Increased health to 125 (150 for Prime).

Passive

• Effect chance increased to 15% (from 10%).
• Effect duration reduced to 5s (from 20s).
• Now applies to ranged attacks.
  • Doesn't apply to DoT or AoE effects.

Freeze

• Freeze projectile travel speed increased dramatically.
• Freeze freezes enemies within a 3m volume of the projectile's impact point for 15s.
  • Effect lingers for 0.5s (unmoddable)
  • Freezing area is limited by LoS.
• Enemies that lose 75% of their health while frozen will shatter.
• Shattering an enemy will slow them by 30% for 3s.
  • Slow strength and duration scale with the appropriate mods.
• Using Freeze on a frozen enemy will shatter the enemy and deal 200% damage.
  • Enemies have a 1s (unmoddable) internal cooldown between shattering and being frozen again (to prevent shatter spam).
• Freeze has a 3.0x headshot multiplier.
  • This multiplier isn't affected by mods.

Ice Wave

• Ice Wave can be charged to deal 200% damage.
  • Charge time of 2s (this is less than Tempest Barrage).
• Ice Wave will shatter any frozen enemy, dealing 200% damage.

Snow Globe

• No longer breaks when touching a Corpus Nullifier bubble.
  • Instead, Nullifier bubbles will make all enemies inside the bubble immune to Snow Globe's slow effect.
• Allies are cleansed of negative status effects and gain status immunity while inside the Snow Globe.
• Allies can fire through the outside of the Snow Globe.
• Slow decreased to 30%.
• Slow effect now scales with strength, up to 85%.
• Augment change: Chilling Globe now allows Frost to create a mobile Snow Globe around himself for 10/15/20 seconds by holding the ability button.
  • If Frost becomes nullified, the Chilling Globe around him will break.
  • Recasting the held version of Snow Globe will refresh the Chilling Globe's health and duration.
  • Casting a normal Snow Globe while Chilling Globe is active will simply place a new Snow Globe that acts as a separate object from Chilling Globe
  • If we keep asking for this, DE will eventually do it.

Avalanche

• Armor reduction increased to 50% (from 40%).
• Enemies frozen by Avalanche will apply 1 cold proc to enemies within a 5m radius of them every 1 second.

Hydroid

Spoiler

Passive

• Increased chance of spawning a tentacle to 100%.
• True damage over time scales with power strength.

Tempest Barrage

• Projectiles begin firing instantly after casting.
• Duration increased to 7.5s-15s.
• Charging no longer increases energy cost.
• Corroding Barrage removes 5% of the target's maximum armor with every explosion.
  • Armor stripped is affected by ability strength.

Tidal Surge

• Reduced energy cost to 25.
• Tidal Surge grants Hydroid a 2s immunity period after Tidal Surge ends.
  • This duration isn't affected by mods.

Undertow.

• Damage dealt to Undertow by allies will no longer be divided among submerged enemies. Instead, dealing damage to an Undertow will deal 100% of weapon damage to all enemies inside.
  • Weapon damage retains its damage type composition, and is still subject to enemy resistances/armor.
• Removed energy drain over distance traveled.
• Undertow no longer halves the speed of Tidal Surge.
• Tidal Surge is free while in Undertow.

Tentacle Swarm

• Casting Tentacle Swarm creates a water trap (Undertow) at the target location with 50% more range (6m, scales with ability range the same as Undertow).
  • Enemies inside this water trap do not charge Hydroid energy for their death.
  • Damage is identical to the normal Undertow.
  • Enemies inside the water trap count as "held" for Pilfering Swarm.

Loki

Spoiler

Passive

• Along with wall latch duration, Loki's next bullet jump gains 100% extra parkour velocity after performing a wall latch.

Decoy

• Decoy is now invulnerable.
• Duration reduced to 15s (from 25s).
• Holding down the ability button will kill the active Decoy.
• If enemies cannot acquire a new target after Decoy expires or dies, they will reset their alert status.

Invisibility

• Invisibility can be toggled off by pressing the ability key again.
• Invisibility duration pauses while Loki is latched to a wall.

Switch Teleport

• Holding the ability key will cause Loki to Switch Teleport with a Decoy if one is active.
• Switching with an alerted target will attach an explosive to them, exploding when shot and dealing 500 Electricity damage in a 5m radius with 100% (unmoddable) status chance.
  • Explosives can be triggered by enemy shots.
  • Explosives trigger when the enemy takes damage, not when the explosive specifically is shot.
  • Decoy will receive an explosive if it is in its alerted (firing state). If Decoy is hit (regardless of it being invulnerable), the explosive will trigger.

Radial Disarm

• Enemy weapons explode upon being disarmed, dealing 200 blast damage to the enemy.
• Unaware enemies will instead have their weapon sabotaged, exploding when they attempt to fire.
• Sabotage explosion increases by 50% (unmoddable) for every 1s weapons remain sabotaged.

Mesa

Spoiler

Passive

• Health bonus now applies 25 health to Mesa's base health, rather than applying 50 health after calculations.
• Reload speed bonus applies to all of Mesa's equipped weapons.
• Fire rate bonus applies to any secondary weapon Mesa has equipped.
  • Regulators do not benefit from this bonus.

Ballistic Battery

• Damage cap increased to 2,500.
• Ballistic Battery will multiply the damage of the next shot fired by up to 2.5x, instead of adding the damage cap.
  • If the multiplied damage is less than the damage cap, the damage cap will be added instead.
• Upon activating Ballistic Battery's charged shot, Mesa's equipped weapon will reload a % of its missing magazine equal to Ballistic Battery's charge %.

Shooting Gallery

• Damage buff now stacks multiplicatively with damage increasing mods.
• Damage buff no longer applies to melee weapons
  • Gunblade ranged attacks will still get the damage bonus.

Shatter Shield

• Reduced maximum damage reduction to 85% (from 95%).
• Reduced base damage reduction to 70% (from 80%).
• Reflected shots will add 3% charge to Ballistic Battery
  • This effect has a 2s (unmoddable) cooldown per enemy.

Peacemaker

• Reduced firing range to 30m (from 50m).
• Peacemaker damage type composition changed to 25% Impact, 25% Puncture, 50% Slash.

Mirage

Spoiler

Passive

• Along with her current passive, Mirage gains 20% increased parkour velocity.

Hall of Mirrors

• Doppelgangers will negate the damage of enemy projectiles that pass through them (to prevent Mirage from getting hit afterwards).
• Doppelgangers will aim alongside Mirage, following her target when she is aiming.
• Hall of Mirrors can be refreshed while active.

Sleight of Hand

• Tap/Hold cast to create a light/dark jewel.
  • These jewels have the same light/dark effects as current Sleight of Hand.
• Created jewels will generate a 5m radius matching their lighting.
  • While in this area, Mirage is considered to be in maximum light/dark, depending on the aura.
  • Jewel radius is increased by 50% (7.5m) when Hall of Mirrors is active
• After a jewel is detonated by a nearby enemy, it will rearm itself after 3s.
  • Light/dark aura persists while the jewel is inactive.
• Detonation radius increased to 5m (from 2m).
• Detonation radius is now affected by ability range.
• Increased dark jewel explosion damage to 500 blast damage (from 200 blast damage)

Eclipse

• Damage reduction now applies to Toxin damage.
• Buff indicator now shows the buff's actual percentage, rather than the maximum percentage at all times.

Prism

• Reduced cast time to ~1.6s (equal to Natural Talent)
• Include Prism's ~100% per hit multiplier in the abilities section (either as part of the ability description or a tip).
• Prism's blind opens enemies to finishers.

 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Yeah sorry you immediately lost everyone with the mere suggestion of nerfing Mesa. Not to mention your suggested nerfs to Shatter shield are wholly unwarranted. Why would you ruin a perfectly fine tank ability?

 

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

7 minutes ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Yeah sorry you immediately lost everyone with the mere suggestion of nerfing Mesa. Not to mention your suggested nerfs to Shatter shield are wholly unwarranted. Why would you ruin a perfectly fine tank ability?

I understand that people hate nerfs, but the intention is making the entire kit good while trying to keep some semblance of balance. Mesa is already quite powerful, so only adding buffs to her would just make her unreasonably strong.

As for Shatter Shield specifically, it's not being ruined at all. It's still an effective ability, but it doesn't allow a DPS frame to have some of the highest EHP values in the game anymore, which I would consider to be fair. If her primary focus is DPS, she should not also have one of the best tank abilities in the game.

You should also consider that Mesa has other options for staying alive. Shooting Gallery and Staggering Shield provide really effective passive crowd control, and her buffed passive allows for significantly higher health pools to work well with Shatter Shield's damage reduction. You can also just kill the things that are trying to damage you, which is something Mesa is really good at.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

I understand that people hate nerfs, but the intention is making the entire kit good while trying to keep some semblance of balance. Mesa is already quite powerful, so only adding buffs to her would just make her unreasonably strong.

As for Shatter Shield specifically, it's not being ruined at all. It's still an effective ability, but it doesn't allow a DPS frame to have some of the highest EHP values in the game anymore, which I would consider to be fair. If her primary focus is DPS, she should not also have one of the best tank abilities in the game.

You should also consider that Mesa has other options for staying alive. Shooting Gallery and Staggering Shield provide really effective passive crowd control, and her buffed passive allows for significantly higher health pools to work well with Shatter Shield's damage reduction. You can also just kill the things that are trying to damage you, which is something Mesa is really good at.

You don’t have to make good abilities bad just to make bad abilities good. Not to mention your suggestion for Ballistic Battery isn’t going to fix it. The cap needs to be increased to like 500,000. 2,500 isn’t going to justify the absolute gutting of Peacemaker and Shatter shield.

You’re forgetting something very important about Shatter shield. It only defends against bullets. So it makes sense that it gives 95% DR because it doesn’t block any % of melee attacks.

 

[Sevek7]

4 hours ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

As for Shatter Shield specifically, it's not being ruined at all. It's still an effective ability, but it doesn't allow a DPS frame to have some of the highest EHP values in the game anymore, which I would consider to be fair. If her primary focus is DPS, she should not also have one of the best tank abilities in the game.

Honestly, if we want balance then DPS frames shouldn't have damage reduction abilities at all. 

[Tiltskillet]

I like your Banshee suggestions.  Fairly simple and fairly deep.

5 hours ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

Sonic Boom will hit enemies at full range through obstacles.

Is the current range reduced by barriers?  I know some aren't penetrable, but I do use it through many walls and around corners a lot.

[(PSN)zj0ker20]

I personally see no reason for Mesa's Shield to be nerfed.  Most of the time, it's the only thing keeping me alive while I use the Peacemaker.

As for other Frames to rework, my biggest suggestion would be a rework of Loki.  His abilities are absurdly lackluster when compared to the other spy Warframes.  I'd take Wukong into a spy mission over Loki.  The fact that his abilities don't actually do any damage is just icing on the proverbial cake.  

His Decoy is barely worth the energy cost.  The Augment for it doesn't really improve it.  Maybe it'll save your life once or twice, but Loki is at his best when he's invisible, so a good Loki player would never need to rely on it for an average mission.

His Switch-Teleport ability is just a crappier version of Ash's teleport, made worse since it doesn't kill the enemies targeted.  

The only two good abilities he has are his Invisibility and his Disarm, and even those have problems.  His Invisibility has more speed compared to Ivara, but her Augment to walk through lasers puts her on top.  The Augment is basically a rip-off of Banshee's passive ability, but worse.

The Disarm is probably his most useful ability outside of stealth, simply because of the fact that it disarms enemies.  But even then, the ability does nothing else except disarm and occasionally do Impact damage.  The Augment allows it to do radiation damage, but making enemies attack each other isn't as effective if they don't have their primary weapons.

This is my idea for a rework:

 

Passive:  Hushed:  The Hushed Invisibility Augment is folded into his regular kit, with the amount of noise Loki makes depends on what rank the Loki Warframe is.  Level 30 makes him completely silent to enemies even when not Invisible.

New First Ability:  Wall Walk:  Loki can walk on the walls and ceiling like they were the normal floor.  His weapons get increased Critical Chance while he's attached.  Duration based that drains energy while active.  Can turn Invisible while attached at double energy cost.

Invisibility Changes:  While Invisible, Loki has a 50% chance to Auto Hack consoles, and gains increased Stealth Damage.  All Throwing Knife weapons do double damage, and he can carry more ammo for them.  This includes the throwing mine weapons.

Switch Teleport Changes:  Swapping with an enemy inflicts a Bleeding status effect on them.  Charging the ability makes it so that, upon switching places, Loki leaves behind an explosive charge where you were standing.  Loki can now target objects with the ability.  The Safeguard Switch Augment is rolled into the main ability.

Radial Disarm Changes:  In addition to disarming enemies, this ability receives the Chroma treatment, allowing it to do radial elemental damage based on the Warframe's energy color.  The sub-elements of Blast, Corrosive, Radiation, Viral, Gas, and Magnetic are unlocked after the first Forma and are based on combining the two Energy Colors.  Unlike Chroma or Lavos, you cannot switch the elements mid-mission.

 

These changes would, in my opinion, make Loki much better while keeping his status as an effective stealth Warframe.

Please share your opinions.

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

4 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Is the current range reduced by barriers?  I know some aren't penetrable, but I do use it through many walls and around corners a lot.

According to the wiki, Sonic Boom doesn’t hit enemies through obstacles unless Banshee has LoS on them, to prevent small objects from getting in the way I suppose. If you’re hitting enemies that you can’t see behind walls, there are probably some LoS bugs, like there are with Khora’s Whipclaw. 
 

I guess the wording is weird, but I just mean that Sonic Boom will hit enemies in the range of Sonic Boom, regardless of if there’s a solid wall there. The effect might be reduced, since the sound is being muffled, but the effect will still happen. 

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

5 hours ago, Sevek7 said:

Honestly, if we want balance then DPS frames shouldn't have damage reduction abilities at all. 

I don’t agree that they shouldn’t have any damage reduction at all, but their ability to reduce damage should be less than that of a frame whose main purpose is tanking. 
 

That applies to every sort of role as well. If a frame is designed around being tanky, it can have damage abilities, but it shouldn’t be at the same level or better than the DPS frames. 

[(PSN)Vexx757]

Since this is about giving ideas, I strongly believe Ash needs a revisit and it doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks, stats and ppl`s actions proves he needs a revisit.

 I say Ash needs a revisit and ppl say "he`s perfect" and get upset with me but he`s not, Ash has issues most ppl don`t know about.

The reason being because;

• People use two of his augment 24/7 to the point where they completely ignore the issues of the abilities and act like they are ok.
• The way people use him and talk about him ("oh he can use seeking shuriken to strip armour and can kill lvl 100+ with bs) they can`t see his issues in a general sense.

So with that said here is my revisit to him that addresses all his issues.

 

Ash:

Spoiler

·       All abilities can be cast while on ziplines.

 

1st Ability:

·       If an enemy is killed in one hit it is considered as a stealth kill.

·       Holding the ability will make both shurikens target the enemy you`re aiming at dealing double slash damage and adds critical damage based on what crit damage mods you have equipped on your melee weapon, also headshots will do more damage.

·       The held version works like the way Nezha`s 2nd ability does. Quick cast, straight path and more damage.

·       The held version will have increased flight speed.

·       The more health the enemy loses, the slower the enemy moves when bleeding out.

·       When the enemy stops bleeding, it will go back to its normal movement speed.

·       If you hit the same enemy that was affected before, it will go back to the same slow speed and will keep getting slower until it`s lifeless.

·       It has a 1 second combo window. The more you use the ability, the more damage it does, the less energy it takes.

·       The built-up damage multi from spamming it can affect the held version of shuriken.

·       The held version can pause the 1 sec combo duration drain indicator so that you have time to get the full damage out of it but the decreased energy won`t carry over to it.

·       Depending on the damage built up from the combo multiplayer will determine the increase of critical damage from the held version, if high enough it can reach red crits.

 

2nd Ability:

·       Increase the cast stun duration to 4 sec.

·       The knockback is one sec and the stun is 3 secs.

·       The smoke left behind will last for 10 seconds.

·       The smoke cloud has a 5m radius which can be increased by range mods.

·       The 4sec stun also affects osprays by them visually float down to the ground before recovering.

·       The stun can interrupt and override enemies that`s already affected by a stun.

·       Enemies that enter the smoke will have a 6 sec stun duration and are 40% more susceptible to damage. If allies are in the cloud they cannot be targeted by enemies.

·       If Ash stays in the cloud the duration won`t start until either he leaves the cloud or the cloud duration runs out.

·       Allies that are in the cloud are visually translucent show that they are unseen by enemies.

·       All stun durations cannot be increased by duration mods.

·       When Ash is invisible, the apparitions from bs are also invisible.

·       Remove muffled sound while invisible.

 

3rd Ability:

·       Holding the ability will show an indicator of where he can teleport to from the radical.

·       The teleport stun can interrupt and override enemies that`s already affected by a stun.

·       When teleporting to enemies with the held version, enemies won`t detect you when in close proximity and it won`t open enemy to finishers.

·       The cast speed of the held version is half a second.

·       Teleporting to a wall will make ash hang to the wall for 10 seconds if you press the aim glide button (you don`t needs to hold the button to hang on to it). While hanging on the wall Ash can either bullet jump of the wall or teleport to an enemy or a surface.

·       Not only it can teleport to anything with a health bar, it can also teleport to anything that can be scanned.

·       You can teleport through windows if there are allies, npcs, enemies, objects with a health bar or is scannable objects on the other side of it.

·       If you can see an ally through a wall you can teleport to them.

·       You are able to teleport to enemies that are in the air.

·       After teleporting in the air, performing melee attacks will keep him in the air.

·       Even if an enemy is already stunned it is still able to be open to a finisher.

·       The cast speed of the held version is half a second.

·       If he targets an enemy behind cover, he will teleport behind it for a finisher instead of just standing above them.

·       He can perform front finishers on moas and infested enemies.

·       Make it be able to interrupt enemies’ movement/attack animations.

 

4th Ability:

·       When activating the ability, it will start instantly.

·       Pressing the ability will bring you into the animation while holding the ability will send clones out to kill instead of you.

·       If you want to jump out of bs, press the ability again and the clones will continue to kill enemies.

·       Enemies that are red can be killed by players.

·       It ignores los.

·       There is no limit to how many enemies he can kill within the radius of the enemy he`s aiming at.

·       On deactivation or when blade storm ends while in the animation, Ash teleports back to the position where he activated it.

·       An indicator is shown of the number of enemies that are going to be killed by bs.

·       Sliding before activating will increase the animation and clones` attack speed by 20%.

·       You sentinel will not only be invulnerable but will also visually disappear while in the animation, this also including visually pickups from vacuum.

 

Since Ash doesn`t have any synergy (or any good ones) here are some that will improve his performance;

 

Synergies:

Smoke Screen + Shuriken, Teleport & Blade Storm:

·       If you use any ability while you`re invisible, enemy bodies will disappear.

·       While smoke screen is active enemies won`t be able to detect Ash or enemies killed when in close proximity.

 

Shuriken + Teleport:

·       Using the 1st ability on an enemy will show their health bar through walls longer, making you able to teleport to them as long as they are continually receiving bleeding ticks.

 

Shuriken + Blade Storm:

To increase the damage of bs you must use shuriken. As long as enemies continuously keep receiving bleeding ticks, your damage will increase over time with no limit.

·       Enemies need to be alive and bleeding from the 1st ability for bs to build up damage.

·       If no enemies are affected by slash, you will have five seconds before the damage is lost.

·       If the five seconds is up, the stored-up damage will decay overtime instead of disappearing completely.

·       There will be an indicator showing the amount of damage you are accumulating and the amount of time you have left.

·       If you get downed, the timer won`t start until you are revived.

 

Fixes:

·       Make Ash be able to teleport in and out of the same grates instead of just one direction.

·       Make opening enemies up to finishers consistent with 3rd ability.

·       Sometime ash is glitched and stabbing the air and he is unseen when using bs due to camera angle.

·       Make the “clones” look like him (like wukong`s 1st ability) instead of looking like a hologram.

·       When blade storm is done, Ash doesn’t appear at the same place he started at but instead is teleported in a different location.

·       If he targets an enemy behind cover with his 3rd ability, he will teleport behind them for a finisher instead of just standing above them.

 

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

On 2021-06-09 at 8:32 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Since this is about giving ideas, I strongly believe Ash needs a revisit and it doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks, stats and ppl`s actions proves he needs a revisit.

 I say Ash needs a revisit and ppl say "he`s perfect" and get upset with me but he`s not, Ash has issues most ppl don`t know about.

 

On 2021-06-08 at 2:55 AM, (PSN)zj0ker20 said:

As for other Frames to rework, my biggest suggestion would be a rework of Loki.  His abilities are absurdly lackluster when compared to the other spy Warframes.  I'd take Wukong into a spy mission over Loki.  The fact that his abilities don't actually do any damage is just icing on the proverbial cake.  

I agree with both of these. Both Ash and Loki could do with an update to their kits. Neither is necessarily bad, but Loki ignores 60% of his kit, while Ash’s abilities feel like they should have more functions across all of them. 
 

I made a comment on your own topic about your Ash revisit. To summarize, I think your ideas for Shuriken, Smoke Screen, and Teleport are great, while the Blade Storm rework doesn’t seem great. 
 

For Blade Storm, I think it’s mostly good as is, but it feels like you’re getting robbed when your team kills marked enemies. To solve that, I’d suggest giving some sort of extra effect to marking enemies to make it feel like you’re getting your energy’s worth immediately, while the clones killing everything serves as a powerful bonus for those that have the time. 
 

For the proposed Loki Rework, I’m not really a fan. There are good effects there like auto hack bonuses and explosive traps, but the removal of Decoy doesn’t make sense when the only issue with the ability is its health, and the ability replacing it doesn’t fit thematically, nor does it serve much of a purpose (although the critical chance bonus could make it worth crippling your mobility). 

[(PSN)Vexx757]

@(XBOX)Regxxh

Just to ask, what is the issue with my idea of the 4th ability? you may have some insight that I might have mist. I just to correct you i`m not giving him a rework he just needs a revisit, his ability concept are solid they just need to be improved.

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

20 minutes ago, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Just to ask, what is the issue with my idea of the 4th ability? you may have some insight that I might have mist. I just to correct you i`m not giving him a rework he just needs a revisit, his ability concept are solid they just need to be improved.

It might be more that I'm not sure what you're describing with the changes, and I'm possibly getting the wrong impression. When you say that Blade Storm starts instantly, are you saying that there is no marking phase, and it just gets everyone in LoS, or is it that the slight delay between the marking phase and the killing phase is removed? If it's the latter, that's absolutely fine, but the former would repeat the same redundancy that Shuriken already has.

Second, when you say that you must use Shuriken to increase the dps, are the base numbers the same or lower, and does Blade Storm still scale with finisher damage? Shuriken being a way to increase dps past the existing dps seems unnecessary (but still good), while having decent dps be reliant on Shuriken seems really clunky, and it'd make Blade Storm feel a lot less powerful.

Other than those it seems like the rest of the changes are QoL, which is good. Just need some clarification, as it seems like Blade Storm is being made to auto mark and send out clones to kill everything in sight, and that's not good design.

[FacuNeko]

i made a lot of forums about nidus suggestions, and i think their worth to see

[(PSN)Vexx757]

@(XBOX)Regxxh

Ok let me explain

To put it simply, my idea is an amalgam of the old and the current way it works. The marking mechanic is gone (since that`s what's the abilities biggest problem), the only thing it`s taking from the way it works currently is the ability to send the clones to kill enemies. If you remember the way the old one works it pretty much works just like that except it removes the problems the old one has.

Pros

• You no longer have to sit and watch the animation coz you can press the ability again to jump out of it.
• It gives you the choice to press to be in the animation and hold to send clones out.
• it has no limit in how many enemies he can kill within the radius.
• He won`t be a kill stealer since other ppl can take his kills.
• The activation speed makes him be able to get to the enemies 1st before any other damage ability does.
• It`s balanced coz even through there is not limit and it has a fast activation speed, the clones still only kills in twos or threes, even if 50 enemies are red he can`t kill them all, he will get kills and his teammates will be able to kill them also.
• The extra 20% attack speed means you don`t have to put attack speed mods on your melee weapon and it will be capable in sortie missions where you can`t use a melee weapon.
• The indicator will let you know how many enemies are going to be killed and when you can use it again.
• it ignores los which makes sense coz teleporting is also based on memory so to make it make sense he has been around the tileset so many times that he remembers the locations and is able to reach an enemy behind an obstacle/wall even through he can`t see them anymore. Its practical coz it makes him more efficient at killing enemies.

Just to add maybe the radius could be around him which makes him have to jump in a group of enemies before he used it.

 

Yes its damage is being nerf coz the reason it was increased when he got a revisit is coz DE sacrificed speed for damage but since I'm bringing the speed back the damage can go back to 1,000 and the damage can only be increased is using the synergy with his 1, but it still can scale with finisher damage, that makes it balanced, me personally I don`t want the damage to be nerf but for the ppl that will complain about it being op that`s why I'm adding that in.

Overall these changes make his 4th way better than the way it use to work and the way it works currently with no downsides however if you see anything that will make my idea a con let me know.

 

 

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

I have added my ideas for Loki to the original post, so let me know what you think!

Next, I'm thinking of Trinity and Valkyr, so ideas for those two would be cool.

On 2021-06-11 at 1:39 PM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Ok let me explain

To put it simply, my idea is an amalgam of the old and the current way it works. The marking mechanic is gone (since that`s what's the abilities biggest problem), the only thing it`s taking from the way it works currently is the ability to send the clones to kill enemies. If you remember the way the old one works it pretty much works just like that except it removes the problems the old one has.

Pros

• You no longer have to sit and watch the animation coz you can press the ability again to jump out of it.
• It gives you the choice to press to be in the animation and hold to send clones out.
• it has no limit in how many enemies he can kill within the radius.
• He won`t be a kill stealer since other ppl can take his kills.
• The activation speed makes him be able to get to the enemies 1st before any other damage ability does.
• It`s balanced coz even through there is not limit and it has a fast activation speed, the clones still only kills in twos or threes, even if 50 enemies are red he can`t kill them all, he will get kills and his teammates will be able to kill them also.
• The extra 20% attack speed means you don`t have to put attack speed mods on your melee weapon and it will be capable in sortie missions where you can`t use a melee weapon.
• The indicator will let you know how many enemies are going to be killed and when you can use it again.
• it ignores los which makes sense coz teleporting is also based on memory so to make it make sense he has been around the tileset so many times that he remembers the locations and is able to reach an enemy behind an obstacle/wall even through he can`t see them anymore. Its practical coz it makes him more efficient at killing enemies.

Just to add maybe the radius could be around him which makes him have to jump in a group of enemies before he used it.

 

Yes its damage is being nerf coz the reason it was increased when he got a revisit is coz DE sacrificed speed for damage but since I'm bringing the speed back the damage can go back to 1,000 and the damage can only be increased is using the synergy with his 1, but it still can scale with finisher damage, that makes it balanced, me personally I don`t want the damage to be nerf but for the ppl that will complain about it being op that`s why I'm adding that in.

Overall these changes make his 4th way better than the way it use to work and the way it works currently with no downsides however if you see anything that will make my idea a con let me know.

I guess those changes aren't bad then, and they would make the ability better than it is. Personally, I wouldn't change the way Blade Storm works, as I don't see the marking phase as a problem, and I see these changes to Blade Storm's usage as changing the ability for change's sake, rather than to improve the ability.

The way I see it, Ash's three attacking abilities are used depending on the amount of enemies present. Teleport-finisher for a single heavy unit, Shuriken spam for small groups, and Blade Storm for the largest groups, where you'd need the extra assistance. Your changes to Blade Storm don't ruin that, but it could make Blade Storm more of an "all situations" ability rather than a tool needed for scenarios that fit a 4th "ultimate" ability. Even if Blade Storm isn't killing everything instantly, having the ability automatically target enemies would encourage me to use it 100% of the time (unless you plan to change the energy costs of Blade Storm). Basically, Blade Storm being instant, and thus faster than Shuriken and Teleport could sideline those abilities as offensive tools, and limit them to being a companion ability and a mobility tool respectively.

[TheLexiConArtist]

Top kek @ EasymodeFrame players getting salty that the OP is suggesting her excessive advantages are trimmed back a bit.

Imagine not having the strongest non-conditionally-scaled damage reduction ability on also one of the most overpowered damage output frames. Perish the thought.

On 2021-06-08 at 2:01 AM, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

• Snow Globe
• No longer breaks when touching a Corpus Nullifier bubble.
  • Instead, Nullifier bubbles will make all enemies inside the bubble immune to Snow Globe's slow effect.

This isn't really a Frost-specific change, it's just how Nullifiers used to work (and still should) with placed effects. Because nothing is more cheap than having your entire ability lol-noped away just because a bubble slightly grazed the perimeter.

Take Ivara's Cloak Arrow bubble for example: instead of Nullifiers just deleting the bubble outright, she was able to move around within its radius to remain hidden, unless actually inside the Nullification area that intersected the Cloak area.

I'd like to be able to use wide object-placing abilities without it working against me just because DE decided to throw more functions on an already overloaded enemy mechanic.

[(XBOX)anthropn]

I am not sure if this has been asked before or not. I am a new poster and have not ever posted comments before, but if each warframe can have 3 different config's why can't each of the configurations be formaed differently?

 

V/R

[(PSN)Vexx757]

@(XBOX)Regxxh

The marking mechanic is the biggest problem you said it yourself, other ppl taking his kills is an issues.

Here are more issues with his 4th

Spoiler

·       The two stages of the killing process make bs slow, because of this, other players can take his kills before you get a chance to kill them which makes him not helpful in the team, not fun to play and in a fast-pasted game this is bad.

 

·       Marking enemies for some players is sickening because of the motion of moving the cursor onto enemies, even though it`s easier (but still a problem) to do this using a mouse, doing this on a controller is not as easy, an ability should be able to be easy to use no matter what you use.

 

·       Because enemies are highlighted by your chosen energy colour, it will make enemies more visible to other players to go and kill them which in their minds is a top priority.

 

·       If you want the full damage of bs, you have to mark the enemies three times which will slow you down or  makes you stationary (if you want to do it quickly) to mark enemies with three marks. In low-level missions, your energy will be refunded back to you if you over mark and in high levels you obviously going to want the full damage of it so there is absolutely no point in having to choose the amount of damage you want to dish out. With the old bs, you had the full damage regardless.

 

·       Bodies disappearing makes it to where you can`t bring him in a desecrating team with a nekros. While bodies disappearing makes sense on paper for him being a ninja and I like the idea, unfortunately, this just makes him a problem in that team.

 

·       The indicator shows how many marks instead of how many enemies affected by bs. Because of this, you have no idea how many enemies are going to be killed. If it showed how many enemies affected by bs, it will let the play know when to use bs again.

 

·       Using your 2nd ability to use less energy is not synergy. Synergy is meant to be a choice that makes a difference in missions however, this so-called synergy is a must to use it consistently which makes it a bad gimmick.

 

·       Because of the synergy between his 2nd & 4th ability, you are forced to mod for duration to benefit from using less energy for bs since most people are not going to use bs while it`s taking more energy.

 

·       Using the 3rd ability to join the animation costs no energy but you need energy to be able to use it which makes no sense plus, in low-level missions, sometimes you`re not even going to get a chance use your 3rd ability because the apparitions have killed the enemies already. (depending on how many enemies you mark)

 

·       Apparitions (clones) appearance is not consistent. The visuals go from looking like you custom coloured Ash to a hologram version, to the original ash look with default colours. Also, this is a bug that the old bs had which means it has not been fixed.

 

·       When marking, you can`t mark enemies that are behind walls or objects which make you have to run around searching for enemies to kill and if you in a team, your marked enemies will be killed off by your teammates.

 

·       Even if Ash`s damage has increased to 2,000, (his damage now is still great) the damage is not as good compared to the old bs. The apparitions of the old bs was like Saryn`s 1st ability damage but slightly better, (and the terminator) the apparitions would not stop killing until the enemies were dead and even though attack speed mods can increase their killing speed, with the current bs, the apparitions only attack three times however the bleeding damage speed cannot.

 

·       Because of the way it works, it makes shuriken not favoured in use due to the amount of energy bs costs when modding and how much damage it does and how quick enemies will be killed when activated. This make some people use bs over shuriken.

 

·       The marking mechanic makes the ability ineffective in close-quarter, tight spaces which is what  the majority of the tilesets are, this makes the ability less effective and mostly useless even more so it a team.

 

·       You can`t pick and choose what enemies you want to kill; (which people claim you can do) on paper it makes sense however in practise the idea is not useful. For example, if you wanted to mark an energy eximus in-between two other enemies and you only have enough energy to mark one enemy, you are not able to.

 

Reasons;

· Enemies are running around to where you will either run out of energy or you simply can`t mark the eximus.

· You will have to stand there trying to mark that one enemy.

· You have a chance to get hit by a stray bullet or by an explosion whether you use your 2nd ability or not.

· If you’re playing in a team, someone WILL take the kill from you.

· Teleport can do it better and is faster at it. (this alone destroys the purpose of using it that way)

 

You said it will make the ability an all situation ability but is that not the same for Mesa`s, Saryn`s Ember`s and Equinox`s 4th also ppl will only use an ability like that if their either want to do the mission quickly, its high level or what happens mostly in a team. As for its energy cost it will go back to being 100 energy at least with this ppl wont be just spamming it coz if they do they will lose a lot of energy and if they mood for a certain amount of power strength it will increase the energy cost and vice versa. With this alone all the abilities have a use.

 

Based on my improvements

Spoiler

1st

Takes out a couple of weak enemies quick

That are escaping

build up damage for his 4th

Kill osprays

reach airborne enemies

 

3rd

Take out I high-level enemy quick

stealth takedown up close.

Mobility/combat Teleport

Keep you alive

Kill enemies without alerting them.

However this is not a damage ability, it just a gap closer.

 

4th

Kill hordes of enemies

Kill high-level hordes

Be in two places at once.

 

Even his 2 has a de-buff when enemies are in the smoke so now all the improvements make him strategic and have more creative ways of killing enemies what an assassin has.

 

 

[Drasiel]

I'd like to throw in some improvements to Ash's Fatal Teleport.

Fatal Teleport issues:

• It's only half a power
  • I don't mean that it sucks I mean literally it's half a power the "power" component of it is the teleport while the attack portion is actually a melee strike, this means you can't use it to attack enemies inside limbos rift
• It only works on enemies with finisher animations
  • If an enemy doesn't have a finisher animation you will still teleport them,  lose the 200% damage bonus since you can't hit them with a finisher, and not regain any energy because the finisher you can't make didn't kill them.

Solutions:

• Make the finisher strike part of the power so a limbo won't completely shut down this augment.
• Ideally We would finish giving every enemy finisher animations (front and back) as we were told years ago at this point. Alternatively if the enemy doesn't have a finisher just have the augment do a normal strike animation, and have it behave exactly as a finisher would under the hood ie finisher damage stat from the weapon, 200% bonus, if kills unit energy given back.

[_Achillean_]

Hello guys, i would like to give my ideas to a chroma rework abilities that i hope DE will see and may take some ideas from it or even change few things to fit their convinience......So lets begin and please read until the very end !!!

                              Passive :

Chroma could keep the fact that he has a second double jump. (it might be great with the use of a sniper or the strongest bows) but he could also have the ability that no other warframe will have and it is to be able to have self-damage on its own because now no one use chroma because of the fact that we can't get a high porcentage with vex armor without it.

                            1st Ability :

The same old spectral scream we have always know with of course the ability of choosing a element between fire, ice, electricity, and poison but it has way more punch (so we keep the 100% statut) And it has a synergy with the 2nd ability that i will explain soon.

                           2nd Ability :

Same old elemental ward with the effects that are provided by the elements ( fire give more health, ice give more armor, electricity give more shields, and poison has a chance of dealing poisoning to ennemies ) BUT lets talk about the synergy i've imagined !!! So my idea is based on the fact that  we can have now a fire breath but having at the same time a ice shield, correct ? So why not fuse the two differents elements. Let me explain, if at some point in a mission you need more armor then you can change the element to ice, cast the ice armor and then change the element to fire and so combine the elements and making a more powerful breath that deal explosive damage (blast) and there is 6 combination in total and if you had the same element in both abilities it just make the elemental breath even more powerful and thank to my idea chroma will be able to deal with every kind of foe and to use that combined element ability you only need to press one more time the 1st ability button after chose the elements like a normal spectral scream cast.

So let me explain my vision of this synergy and all combined elements of what it should looks like but of course they keep their advantage like Corrosive still strip ennemies armor by 25% or even more if we use vex armor and etc... :

Heat + Cold : Blast -> Release multiple fire stream that froze anything it touch and then the crystals explode after few seconds.

Electricity + toxin : Corrosive -> Release acid puddle on the path of Chroma where it aimed.

Heat + Toxin : Gas -> Release and spread clouds of gas that have a high chance to poisons anyone who dare breathes them.

Cold + Electricity : Release some sort of sphere made with ElectroMagnetic Pulse the disrupt the ennemies shields.

Heat + Electricity : Radiation -> Release a nuclear beam like Wisp more or less but with less graphics details than wisp. 

Cold + Toxin : Viral -> Release spores in the air that goes randomly around chroma and infect any foes to close to him. 

                           3rd Ability :

Typicaly a huge buff to vex armor so it still gives an enormous damage stacks to his abilities, weapons and like elemental ward, he shares it with fellow tenno on his team but with something new.......We all know that chroma transforms the damage he recieve into energy that make him stronger but my guess is where does all that energy go after the time limit, did it simply vanish ??

So my idea is that chroma could store all the energy he would amass during that time period and when he reach the limit, he focus all of the porcentage he got into a energy orb (with the size of an hand) on the palm of his right hand and then break it by clench his fist, this will create an huge burst so to say a massive explosion that will do void + current element of spectral scream damage. Or it can be something other than that, DE will be the judge of the final decision ;) 

                            4th Ability : 

For the ultimate, i have thought that we could keep the name effigy but change the whole ability by making chroma turn himself into a dragon. This ability, even so will be really good at apparence could make all of his abilities have a great range  so we can share even more buffs to far allies on the map and because vex armor boost only the damages not the range.

 I know there will be size problems so i think that on this form, chroma should stand on his arms and legs like an horse and will be big enough to still passes doors but bigger than his human size. In apparence, his wings will always been active. His claws, horns, tails, arms , legs and his neck will grow and gets bigger and sharper during the time limit and because of the fact that he can't use his weapons but only his abilities, and his signature melee weapon will be his tail. And with the different skin chroma has, he could transform into different types of dragon, for exemple a chinese dragon like with the dinasty deluxe skin but i understand that it will take an huge effort from DE to make all those dragons forms.

I really hope that you guys enjoy reading my ideas on this topic, and if so, don't hesitate to take and share those ideas so DE could saw them and maybe (in my dreams) they will apply and add them to the game so we can all enjoy chroma, the elemental dragon frame, once again !!!

(Ps: if you want to take my idea and call them your own I don't mind at all, you can even upgrade them at will. All I wish is to see one day those new power be given to chroma, my favorite warframe. )

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

6 hours ago, _Achillean_ said:

but he could also have the ability that no other warframe will have and it is to be able to have self-damage on its own because now no one use chroma because of the fact that we can't get a high porcentage with vex armor without it.

You can get a high percentage on Vex Armor without self damage, but you need to be playing against enemies that can deal significant damage to you, and they actually have to shoot you. My biggest issue with Vex Armor is that the amount of value you get out of it isn't consistent since it relies on enemies hitting you, but the energy cost is high. I don't agree that self damage should come back, as it would be an out of place crutch mechanic to make an ability good rather than just tweaking the ability.

6 hours ago, _Achillean_ said:

Same old elemental ward with the effects that are provided by the elements ( fire give more health, ice give more armor, electricity give more shields, and poison has a chance of dealing poisoning to ennemies ) BUT lets talk about the synergy i've imagined !!! So my idea is based on the fact that  we can have now a fire breath but having at the same time a ice shield, correct ? So why not fuse the two differents elements. Let me explain, if at some point in a mission you need more armor then you can change the element to ice, cast the ice armor and then change the element to fire and so combine the elements and making a more powerful breath that deal explosive damage (blast) and there is 6 combination in total and if you had the same element in both abilities it just make the elemental breath even more powerful and thank to my idea chroma will be able to deal with every kind of foe and to use that combined element ability you only need to press one more time the 1st ability button after chose the elements like a normal spectral scream cast.

So let me explain my vision of this synergy and all combined elements of what it should looks like but of course they keep their advantage like Corrosive still strip ennemies armor by 25% or even more if we use vex armor and etc... :

Heat + Cold : Blast -> Release multiple fire stream that froze anything it touch and then the crystals explode after few seconds.

Electricity + toxin : Corrosive -> Release acid puddle on the path of Chroma where it aimed.

Heat + Toxin : Gas -> Release and spread clouds of gas that have a high chance to poisons anyone who dare breathes them.

Cold + Electricity : Release some sort of sphere made with ElectroMagnetic Pulse the disrupt the ennemies shields.

Heat + Electricity : Radiation -> Release a nuclear beam like Wisp more or less but with less graphics details than wisp. 

Cold + Toxin : Viral -> Release spores in the air that goes randomly around chroma and infect any foes to close to him. 

So while I think combining elements would be cool, I think the different effects should go. Elemental Ward is already a complicated ability as is, and adding 4 new effects would make understanding the ability seem very unapproachable. I can get behind your Elemental Ward element combining with your Spectral Scream element to modify the damage type of Spectral Scream, although I do not think that would be powerful considering that Spectral Scream is slow and removes Chroma's ability to use weapons (unless you get the melee glitch). Spectral Scream needs a change to how it works to be a good ability.

6 hours ago, _Achillean_ said:

3rd Ability :

Typicaly a huge buff to vex armor so it still gives an enormous damage stacks to his abilities, weapons and like elemental ward, he shares it with fellow tenno on his team but with something new.......We all know that chroma transforms the damage he recieve into energy that make him stronger but my guess is where does all that energy go after the time limit, did it simply vanish ??

So my idea is that chroma could store all the energy he would amass during that time period and when he reach the limit, he focus all of the porcentage he got into a energy orb (with the size of an hand) on the palm of his right hand and then break it by clench his fist, this will create an huge burst so to say a massive explosion that will do void + current element of spectral scream damage. Or it can be something other than that, DE will be the judge of the final decision ;) 

I don't think Vex Armor needs to have a built in explosion upon deactivation. Not only is the ability powerful as is (it only needs consistency buffs), but the method by which you achieve the explosion is something you want to avoid as a Chroma player: You don't want to lose your Vex Armor because you lose a huge defensive and offensive buff, which you then need to recharge. So while it may look cool to have that explosion effect, it really goes against how the ability is supposed to be used.

6 hours ago, _Achillean_ said:

For the ultimate, i have thought that we could keep the name effigy but change the whole ability by making chroma turn himself into a dragon. This ability, even so will be really good at apparence could make all of his abilities have a great range  so we can share even more buffs to far allies on the map and because vex armor boost only the damages not the range.

 I know there will be size problems so i think that on this form, chroma should stand on his arms and legs like an horse and will be big enough to still passes doors but bigger than his human size. In apparence, his wings will always been active. His claws, horns, tails, arms , legs and his neck will grow and gets bigger and sharper during the time limit and because of the fact that he can't use his weapons but only his abilities, and his signature melee weapon will be his tail. And with the different skin chroma has, he could transform into different types of dragon, for exemple a chinese dragon like with the dinasty deluxe skin but i understand that it will take an huge effort from DE to make all those dragons forms.

Effigy isn't a bad ability concept, it just has bad stats and no synergy. There's no reason to change the core ability when you can just improve the stats and add an effect. Furthermore, I want to highlight that in functionality this is a better version of Sevagoth's Shadow, since you have access to Vex Armor buffs and you give those buffs in a large range. Would it look cool? Sure. Is it functionally a unique ability? No. Would it be a waste of time to implement compared to buffing Effigy? I'd say so.

[_Achillean_]

Ok i see your point and i agree with them maybe i wanted to make him too cool and too powerful but i still hope and believe that even they don't take my ideas, they might have better idea for his rework. And i will be waiting patiently until it gets release. 

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

1 minute ago, _Achillean_ said:

Ok i see your point and i agree with them maybe i wanted to make him too cool and too powerful but i still hope and believe that even they don't take my ideas, they might have better idea for his rework. And i will be waiting patiently until it gets release. 

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like DE has any reworks planned, based on the comments of DE Pablo. It also seems like they ditched their idea of making single adjustments to frames that need it on a consistent basis, something they wanted to start doing after HoD launched. Chroma is definitely among the frames that need a revisit the most, as his current gameplay is limited to refreshing 2 timers that give him better stats.

[_Achillean_]

il y a 6 minutes, (XBOX)Regxxh a dit :

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like DE has any reworks planned, based on the comments of DE Pablo. It also seems like they ditched their idea of making single adjustments to frames that need it on a consistent basis, something they wanted to start doing after HoD launched. Chroma is definitely among the frames that need a revisit the most, as his current gameplay is limited to refreshing 2 timers that give him better stats.

Yes you're right i've heard the same thing and he even say that there is a slight chance that they will make new reworks because now they too busy with the preparation of the new war. Maybe after, who knows ?  Well it was Nice to speak with you, maybe one day DE will finally answer our prayers.