Lich corpus update flop?

[16Bitman]

10 minutes ago, Vaml77 said:

Most used corpus weapon is amprex, lenz, normal opticor, staticor and lanka(nobody use anymore because rubico or chakkur against eidolons)...thats it.

Want to compare with grinner weapons? bramma, tonkor, twin stubbas, ogris, khom, chakkur, vulkar, brakk, karak, vaykor hek and now kuva hek.  kuva nukor, kuva seer,...the list is big...!

 

The Kuva Bramma has no "normal" variant.

The Tonkor was entirely dead before self damage changes (so it's hard to compare) and I still don't see either variant used often in missions.

Kuva Twin stubbas do not have a normal variant, nobody uses normal single Stubba, I don't see Kuva Stubbas on randoms either.

It's impossible to miss the Napalm Ogris mod when people use it, I see it more often, but I also hardly ever saw it before self damage changes, hard to compare.

Kuva Chakkur has no normal variant, it was used often after it was brand new, but now I hardly see it, a non hitscan sniper is hard to use, especially in a meta that doesn't leave much room for snipers to be used.

I heard good things about the vulkar, but it's still a sniper, one that focusses heavily on headshots, doesn't get used in sniper land of Eidolons thanks to that, no kuva variant.

Brakk was the best gun for a while, used for damage not fun unique fun mechanics, outdated and unused for years before the Kuva version, Kuva Brakk is still lacking compared to alternative options.

The Hek is newbies favorite tool, amazing gun with the augument, definitely popular! If the Kuva Hek can use the augment, it will be a very popular shotgun for higher ranks again.

The Nukor was never popular past Harrow and Adaraza forced crit fun builds, completely unused if you didn't want to show off funny microwaved enemy models. The Kuva Nukor is a heavily buffed Nukor that also has the beam chain mechanics of the Atomos build in, essentially two guns in one and could easily have received a new name showcasing that.

Seer was not used past funny "wow that zoom!" and "look at my zoom riven!" screenshots, which eventually got reduced so it doesn't even have that anymore. Kuva Seer is a "nostalgia" gun for older higher ranks to remind them of their first crafted gun.

 

tl;dr:

The majority of the guns you listed were super unpopular before they got Kuva variants, give the Granum variants a chance to prove themselves before you declare them to be bad.

DE has seen better player retention with players that go for liches, vs those without. They will make sure not to add a boatload of fodder no informed newb would ever touch.

[-Krism-]

12 minutes ago, 16Bitman said:

The majority of the guns you listed were super unpopular before they got Kuva variants, give the Granum variants a chance to prove themselves before you declare them to be bad.

@Vaml77Agrees with the quote, except for the Hek, all other regulars were very underwhelming, now even the worst Kuva weapon is at least decent

 

41 minutes ago, Vaml77 said:

Want to compare with grinner weapons? [...] the list is big...!

So what? Kuva Liches have been out for about two~three years now, & they are just getting new weapons

The Sisters will get more later, just have some patience

[smashedwookie]

For the Sister weapon list, who's to says that DE revealed all the one that will come with the patch on the devstream. For all we know there could be more of them they haven't shown us yet.

[NekroArts]

30 minutes ago, Vaml77 said:

Want to compare with grinner weapons? bramma, tonkor, twin stubbas, ogris, khom, chakkur, vulkar, brakk, karak, vaykor hek and now kuva hek.  kuva nukor, kuva seer,...the list is big...!

Before the Kuva Lich update, 2 were powerful but fell off due to either nerf or time (Tonkor and Brakk), 4 only exist after the update (Bramma, Chakkhurr, Twin Stubba, and Shildeg), and 2 have been doing well before the update (Kohm and Hek). The rest sat as mediocre. 

Grineer weapons were in the same spot as what you describe for the current Corpus weapons. Kuva weapons, with a base version, have increase stats and few have additional/improved mechanics. The Corpus Lich weapons are definitely going to experience the same thing.

[Galuf]

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Amprex

This weapon has been the meta gun for a very long time. Meta changes OP, you have started the game probably late but Amprex was king of the hill when nightmare missions got release(it was a long time ago) also if you speak about meta back then mag was OP in in corpus and void missions because it was deleting everything offscreen with one cast of her second ability. Nowadays Mag is great but for other reasons(or a mix of reasons ^^') and Amprex, while still having a kind of reasonnable dps, doesn't compete what so ever with anything.

So yeah meta changes drastically and can make U turns over time, Kuva weapons are a big part of the current weapon metagame(they are still the tools to beat even further updates down the line for certain playstyles) and I except that at least few of the corpus lich weapons will be on top and scramble powerlevels quite a bit. However even if I truelly loved the Greener liches mechanics, I'm afraid for other reasons according to what has been said in dev stream(for instance the fact that you will face your lich only once at the end makes me feel more like it is a normalized arbitrary grind more than a skill/game knowledge test wich really sux). I disagree firmly with almost every recent implementations in the game, and I dont expect anything good of the new lich and reworked system. However be sure I'll be there day one to try this new system out because I really loved the kuva liches and I'm a persistant fan.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

5 hours ago, Vaml77 said:

This is not new...tell me something new.

In the hunt for forma, you'll gain other weapons and frames to trade for enough plat to buy tons of forma while still obtaining free forma in that while process. What more do you need to know? Why do you need more than the correct information?

[samaban]

1 hour ago, Vaml77 said:

Most used corpus weapon is amprex, lenz, normal opticor, staticor and lanka(nobody use anymore because rubico or chakkur against eidolons)...thats it.

Want to compare with grinner weapons? bramma, tonkor, twin stubbas, ogris, khom, chakkur, vulkar, brakk, karak, vaykor hek and now kuva hek.  kuva nukor, kuva seer,...the list is big...!

Corpus weapon are very outdated, old and they are in much less numbers....who wants to play with this weapons? Just benginners and thats it. They are in general super boring weapons!

The meta is tenno weapons and grinners.

Everything related to corpus including all railjack corpus update its so much disapointment.

 

So the most used grineer weapons are  kuva variant because there's no kuva corpus variant into the game yet.ok then... 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

9 hours ago, Vaml77 said:

I don't see myself putting 5 shapes into corpus weapons that no one has ever liked....

Its just my opinion.

until the variants of the Corpus weapons come out, you can't possibly know for sure whether they'll be good or not. once you've started putting Forma into them, THEN you can have an opinion. out of the ones mentioned, the Arca Plasmor is by far the strongest in it's vanilla form, but that's not to say it's variant will be the strongest overall Corpus Lich weapon. most people never expected the Kuva Nukor to be so good, and the Kuva Tonkor to literally just be a faster reloading version with a bit more damage..

I imagine Cycron or Flux Rifle will get some kind of chaining function for hitting multiple weapons, no idea what Tetra and Arca Plasmor will get, I look forward to finding out though.

 

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

6 hours ago, Vaml77 said:

I'm not speaking for others...I see it daily in the game. It's a fact.

That doesn't mean S#&$, you saw an incredibly small amount of the playerbase and are drawing a false conclusion. That's like me saying everyone uses only excal now a days but i don't mention that I've be playing only on earth on public to farm the hell out of plants for sliver grove farming. 

Give me an actual source, Citations aren't narrow perspectives

 

[mrpyro12345678]

В 08.06.2021 в 18:45, Kaotyke сказал:

But you MUST use 5 Forma on ALL Kuva Weapons to max them! Your OCD DEMANDS it!

Megan pumps a shotgun and says "DEW ET!", you have no choice.

Off topic, but that's pretty much the entire warframe community right now in my opinion.
They all have a completionist instinct and the desire to optimise everything as much as possible, even if it means ruining their fun.

I myself tend to make meme builds that fit my playstyle (20 FIRERATE DRAKGOON HERE WE GOOO-)
Heck I even did a DMC5 inspired fashionframe for Ash and I constantly use his 4 like it's Judgement Cut XD
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
PROVOKING
BLACK CLOUDS IN ISOLATION

[SneakyErvin]

5 minutes ago, mrpyro12345678 said:

Off topic, but that's pretty much the entire warframe community right now in my opinion.
They all have a completionist instinct and the desire to optimise everything as much as possible, even if it means ruining their fun.
 

The difference is that in the case of Kuva weapons people do it for the mastery. If mastery was payed in full at the first rank 30 run of a Kuva weapon most people would settle with far less forma invested in them. This would actually also give them a niche bonus over normal weapons since they wouldnt only get polarized with a forma, the first 5 forma spent would also increase their capacity. We do however not need all of that extra capacity, so there is really no benefit with them giving the extra capacity right now when we are "forced" to spend 5 forma to gain max mastery from them eitherway, since 5 forma alone tends to be enough to max out a weapon.

[DealerOfAbsolutes]

5 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

The difference is that in the case of Kuva weapons people do it for the mastery. If mastery was payed in full at the first rank 30 run of a Kuva weapon most people would settle with far less forma invested in them. This would actually also give them a niche bonus over normal weapons since they wouldnt only get polarized with a forma, the first 5 forma spent would also increase their capacity. We do however not need all of that extra capacity, so there is really no benefit with them giving the extra capacity right now when we are "forced" to spend 5 forma to gain max mastery from them eitherway, since 5 forma alone tends to be enough to max out a weapon.

Worst part is that we can't put focus lenses on them until we max them. Just wasting focus if we use them. We can already reach MR 30 without them, so Mastery isn't such a big deal anymore.

[(PSN)KCGrimReaper15]

The Arca Plasmor & Detron Corpus Lich Weapons will definitely be the 2 must have the others as of RN are kinda meh...

[SneakyErvin]

14 minutes ago, (PSN)KCLegionOfZoom20 said:

The Arca Plasmor & Detron Corpus Lich Weapons will definitely be the 2 must have the others as of RN are kinda meh...

I'd say it depends on how much the others change. Obviously Plasmor and Detron are already good weapons, but we had the same deal with grineer weapons. Most were "meh" prior to liches and now all of them are more or less useful. Nukor went from a S#&$ty "haha" gun to one of the best ranged weapons in the game with liches. Tonkor kinda went the same route, while Kohm went from great with a riven to not needing a riven at all.

[bad4youLT]

On 2021-06-08 at 3:46 PM, Ailia_Grimm said:

It's a sidegrade

 

 

[mrpyro12345678]

3 минуты назад, bad4youLT сказал:

 

 

This video needs to spread.

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, mrpyro12345678 said:

This video needs to spread.

And that video doesnt even cover the massive benefit that the vandal had over the regular opticor on release, back when Gas still worked the old way. Which made it even better at the time with the right modding, allowing for numerous hunter munition procs and so on.

[Kaotyke]

1 hour ago, mrpyro12345678 said:

I myself tend to make meme builds that fit my playstyle (20 FIRERATE DRAKGOON HERE WE GOOO-)

And I have a 30 Magazine Carmine Penta. It was given to me as +dmg +ms. I used 45 Steel Essence to make it a +Magazine, then I rolled it again because it was 3 positives and I wanted 2 positives and 1 negative and T got a +80 Magazine +Cold -CD, its puuurrrrrfect. 

Now DE has to give us the option to change the position of our Primary weapons and I shall be Sam Porter Bridges.

[(PSN)FromOtherSpace]

Le 08/06/2021 à 19:09, Vaml77 a dit :

The meta is tenno weapons and grinners.

 

You know it better than me.

 

In my opinion, Corpus weapons are fun, more than Tenno and Grinner, tied with Infested things they are the ones with most strange behaviors or mechanic. Also many of their design are awesome (for me), superslim Dera, fatty Supra, cycling Cestra, etc.

But they're not the powerful, so most stick to others weapons (me included, often I don't play with it because, well, I have to kill things, you know...)

[MqToasty]

While I am excited for the new weapons, I have to agree with the others that the compulsory 5 forma upgrade for max rank thing is a drag. It's not the forma cost itself, but having to level the same weapon 6 times, each additional time only netting 200 more affinity.

Now, I understand wanting to utilize the sunk cost fallacy to make you more attached to your weapons and thus buy more slots, but this is borderline abusive. I guess the silver lining is that, at least we don't have to us a Orokin Catalyst to max some of these weapons?

[Prexades]

I have a soft spot for energy weapons. Even when most are mediocre or get nerfed into the ground if they are actually good.

[Dairaion]

On 2021-06-08 at 8:41 AM, Vaml77 said:

After what I saw on Devstream about the lichs and weapons I have an almost distinct feeling that this update isn't going to impress much. For several reasons that I will mention here. The first is that it will share the prominence with weapons, the new kuva weapons that are coming and also why grinner weapons are the most popular among players. Corpus weapons in general are not interesting and naturally little used. If we analyze the corpus weapons that will gain new variants are forgotten weapons and without charisma before players such as the cycron, the flux rifle, the tetra (one of the worst weapons ever made), and what is left is the arca plasmor. I think DE should release a new variant of opticor, lenz and staticor. I mentioned the opticor because the vandal variant disappointed me a lot. I wouldn't even call the vandal opticor a variant but another weapon. The feeling I have is that many will initially want to take the new kuva weapons and leave the corpus later on. I don't see myself putting 5 shapes into corpus weapons that no one has ever liked....

Its just my opinion.

You’re right the grineer are cool and fit the universe, the corpus are clownshoes. Stop and think for a moment.

1. What has allowed the corpus, who are prone to infighting and betrayal to survive a millennia against everyone.

2. How can they be taken seriously if they never do anything truly evil and are always thwarted.

3. Their weird cyber-punk aesthetic wasn’t even cool a decade ago in old world blues.

4. People joke about the Tenno committing war crimes and owning slaves (not here of course), but the Corpus do that, all the time, and are never taken as seriously in universe. They’re literally being slowed by a scrappy group of cockney krangs, literally none of this should be happening.

5. What is left as to why this will fall flat could fill a video.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

On 2021-06-08 at 9:29 AM, Aldain said:

Citation needed.

The problem is not Corpus weapons…it’s the Corpus weapons that were chosen that seems to be the issue.

Imagine a Queenpin Amprex SECONDARY variant that could be used with the new Glaive mods…

or even a Queenpin Amprex primary.

[Hypernaut1]

On 2021-06-08 at 10:41 AM, KosmicKerman said:

I think requiring 5 forma for the Kuva weapons was a mistake. Repeating that with the Corpus weapons is really horrible. Levelling each weapon 5 times was soul crushing. And the total forma cost for all of the Kuva weapons was not insignificant. Moreover, Warframe currently has been pretty light on new content that is both fun and replayable  (YMMV with RJ but I found the new missions to be less enjoyable than the old ones). Simply adding a bunch of new weapons that require leveling 5 times is not a good solution and will likely increase burn out among longstanding players. 

So don't forma a weapon 5x if you don't want to. Or just don't rush it. That way, when there's a double affinity weekend, you have something to level. 

Don't crush your soul by trying to rush it. I have a few kuva weapons waiting for forma. I only do it when I have an affinity booster and absolutely nothing else left to rank. That's their intended purpose I think. It's just busy work to give a bit of context to your daily grind. Most of them don't need 5 forma. It's just the "end game" grind. 

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, Dairaion said:

1. What has allowed the corpus, who are prone to infighting and betrayal to survive a millennia against everyone.

For most of that, their only real competition has been themselves. The Grineer, whilst a 'threat' were mere raiders at first, especially during the rebuilding process. They only really became a full on empire 'recently' in the grand scheme of things.

1 hour ago, Dairaion said:

2. How can they be taken seriously if they never do anything truly evil and are always thwarted.

Because the Corpus aren't intended to necessarily be the 'mustache twirling evil' faction compared to the Grineer. They always were a second-rate threat, which is why historically the Tenno have been more willing to outright side with them. Pretty much, their role is the reason why the Tenno can't just assassinate all the leaders of the Grineer - because then the Corpus status quo will reassert itself, and a backstabbing, cutthroat society with no clear leadership is harder to beat with the Tenno's tactics, and the Tenno would no longer be able to rely on their divided attention.

1 hour ago, Dairaion said:

3. Their weird cyber-punk aesthetic wasn’t even cool a decade ago in old world blues.

To each their own, but I disagree. Their aesthetic is charming.

1 hour ago, Dairaion said:

4. People joke about the Tenno committing war crimes and owning slaves (not here of course), but the Corpus do that, all the time, and are never taken as seriously in universe. They’re literally being slowed by a scrappy group of cockney krangs, literally none of this should be happening.

This is a repeat of point 3, really. They're the secondary antagonists - well, tertiary now the Sentients have shown up. Warframe's also not a gritty, super-serious franchise to begin with, which is why it doesn't ever descend into grimdark despite everything.

2 hours ago, Dairaion said:

5. What is left as to why this will fall flat could fill a video.

Perhaps, but that doesn't necessarily mean such a video would be correct.