Forced Procs on Glaive explosion should get readjusted

[Duality52]

For reference, most Glaives in the game will be guaranteed to proc a specific Status effect upon detonation regardless of elemental mods. Examples include:

• Orvius: Cold
• Pathocyst: Viral
• Falcor/Xoris: Electric
• Cereta: Toxin

The Glaive Prime on the other hand, is guaranteed to proc Slash on enemies upon detonation. To be able to proc Slash like that is excessive, coupled with the overall speed and stats of the Glaive Prime, it neuters the Grineer entirely. This can rival the speed and killing power of a Sovereign Outcast Kronen Prime. Its only downside is against any enemies immune to Status procs.

My suggestion: explosions are fine to guarantee procs like Impact, but limit the specific procs to successful thrown Glaive impacts on direct hits. Think of this as similar to the Halikar (Wraith) on how it disarms enemies. It disarms enemies on direct thrown hits, not the explosion. Additionally, detonating the Glaive will cause the Glaive to hover in its place briefly (1-2 seconds) before returning to its user regardless of distance. This is done to limit the Heavy Attack detonation spam.

Thoughts?

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Glaive prime is a prime weapon. It has every excuse to be powerful.

there is zero reason to nerf its damage capabilities to be worse than regular weapons.

[Tyreaus]

9 hours ago, Duality52 said:

Thoughts?

First, one nerf or the other. Doing both would would be pretty rough.

Second, the "hover in place" thing kneecaps usability and QoL more than anything. It's just going to be a pain.

Third, the nerf to direct impact ends up having a similar RoF as other slash-focused heavy attack builds, like on rapiers and nikanas. If those are fine, then the glaive doing the same sort of thing (at a range but with less AoE) is probably about on-par.

Lastly, though, there's a sticking point with combo mods. If direct impacts don't count as heavy attacks, then the throw-happy slashy-slashy build neglects heavy attacks and could build for combo instead. (Upcoming melee nerfs make it questionable what kind of difference, if any, this might have on comparative damage output. It might be that glaive slash combos with those combo builds could be about equal on a single target as current heavy attack builds once that's all sorted.)

In short: Sure, take slash out of the explosion. Upcoming melee nerfs might mean that the transition to a combo build will keep it relevant, without being so overpowered. But don't overdo it and make it painful to use in the process.

 

EDIT: I am clearly drunk. Ignore comparisons between heavy attacks and combo attacks on glaives. I don't remember my numbers at all.

[Nira]

You're right, it sounds like Sovereign Outcast needs toning down.

[Kainosh]

14 hours ago, Duality52 said:

The Glaive Prime on the other hand, is guaranteed to proc Slash on enemies upon detonation.

Change Slash to Heat for detonation and its done.

[Traumtulpe]

17 hours ago, Duality52 said:

This can rival the speed and killing power of a Sovereign Outcast Kronen Prime.

I take it you made suggestions to nerf that weapn as well?

[Famecans]

the problem is not the glave, the problem is slash status linked to true damage

 

[TheLexiConArtist]

I have a feeling of deja vu. Could swear this was posted a couple months back or so...

 

To be fair, at least you only mention regular Grineer, not Extra Spongy Bois.

 

12 hours ago, Famecans said:

the problem is not the glave, the problem is slash status linked to true damage

Also in an amusing coincidence, I found this in my post history from roughly the same time, about Slash and 'true' damage:

So good news, if slash being linked to true is your problem, there is no problem because strictly speaking it isn't True.

[Famecans]

8 hours ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

So good news, if slash being linked to true is your problem, there is no problem because strictly speaking it isn't True

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Damage/Slash_Damage

[TheLexiConArtist]

8 minutes ago, Famecans said:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Damage/Slash_Damage

Wiki is user edited and carries the same misconception. Look at my old post that I linked. While both Finisher and True use the same ingame icon, and both do bypass armour, they are still not the same thing.

Example:

Damage from Inaros' Desiccate is True, its ticks deal direct-health damage that bypasses both shield and armour.
Damage from Inaros' Devour is Finisher, and must damage shields before damaging health (but still bypasses armour once it gets there).
Both use the same damage-type icon on the ability stats despite this observable difference.

Melee finishers do not bypass shields, but do bypass armour (Finisher). Slash procs no longer bypass shields, but do bypass armour; ergo finisher damage not True damage.

[Famecans]

42 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

Wiki is user edited and carries the same misconception. Look at my old post that I linked. While both Finisher and True use the same ingame icon, and both do bypass armour, they are still not the same thing.

Example:

Damage from Inaros' Desiccate is True, its ticks deal direct-health damage that bypasses both shield and armour.
Damage from Inaros' Devour is Finisher, and must damage shields before damaging health (but still bypasses armour once it gets there).
Both use the same damage-type icon on the ability stats despite this observable difference.

Melee finishers do not bypass shields, but do bypass armour (Finisher). Slash procs no longer bypass shields, but do bypass armour; ergo finisher damage not True damage.

you're right really, now i can see it. honestly the DE is messing up the whole damage system.

similar to this is the void damage... i can't kill all sentients with xaku because xaku's void damage is fake. xD