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Gara Prime: Hotfix 30.3.5


[DE]Megan
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19 hours ago, master_of_destiny said:

 

 

Finally, let's discuss responses.  Steve never admits a bad decision, because to some extent he's the auteur leading the project with a vision.  If he admitted error it'd no longer be his vision...so I guess that things are as they are.  Scott is always joked about as the one delivering nerfs.  This is a tactic to address outrage before it can happen by making it a joke.  Etcetera.  What you usually get is Rebecca and the community management team cleaning things up...and boy do I think they earn their paycheck.  Rebecca is regularly open about community perceived failures...and even seems to be a member of the internal group addressing things like the melee nerf and gun buff proactively.  Instead of commenting on the leak, they announce a delayed developer workshop...going over it and helminth system changes.

While a part of me seriously is asking WTF, the other part of me is willing to listen.  Maybe it'll be good.  Maybe.  That'd tacitly not be admitting to what the community has already deemed a failure of a response, but realistically packaging it with something else to deny it the ability to fester.  Say what you will, but Rebecca and team really do earn their keep given all the crap that seems to constantly be drawing almost universal community ire.

That sums up how DE ride their bicycle. 

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This is all in service to a simple point.  Indies with no money need to listen.  Indies with money sell out (anything Zenimax), or become auteurs (Phil Fish). 

 

Amen, my good sir. I can't say it better. 

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DE definitely pretends to be an auteur....but instead of listening they pay people in PR to fix their insanity as needed. 

 

This has been the quotidian practice since day one. Finally someone verbalized it with dead accurate precision. 

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In this way the parties responsible are never held to account.  They never have to say sorry, because they have paid people to do that.  They, to an extent, have sold out.  You can't reasonably say otherwise given the pricing scheme on some of those skins.  If you get to play both sides of the argument, get the benefits of whatever you claim this week, and never truly have to truly reconcile this insanity, then why should you?  If I were in this position I'd make someone else have to take responsibility for my errors.  Oh...I'm that someone professionally.  I made myself sad.

Indeed. 

The design of this product never connects people with the responsibility of quality delivery. For example, CDPR sold a lie and called it a day. They got their money despite their aftermath. They went out feeding pockets of hopes for a redemption with a future fix. The epitaph of a second chance will not redeem the game despite the effort. With Warframe, DE has the license to screw up and try again without consequences due to the TOS we signed . Cyberpunk 77 had a lot of critical flaws during the development time but it went out pretending to be Warframe where such debugging where about to be paid by the costumer. No Man Sky happened once. That trend rarely will happen twice in the video game market. 

We need to understand the basics here. DE doesn't have the burden of establishing a policy with their clients. We have the duty and obligation of forming our policies and politics around their products. Doesn't matter how they try to sell or how they try weaseling out their professional responsibilities. They don't owe us anything. It's up to us if we endorse or critique with our actions their performance. 

Those are our only feasible democratic options. 

I do not condemn or endorse DE. That is what DE must care about with their own actions and delivery of the game. If the game doesn't hold up in reference to current standards I simply pick up Insomniac;'s Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart game and carry on my free time with a product that I feel satisfied with. Are they willing to hear our critiques towards them? No. Are they willing to accept debugging information from us for free? Yes. That's the purpose of these forums. 

Clean products like Horizon Zero 1 will have a continuous standing ovation because behind such policy of game creation the priority was quality in the delivery. Warframe operates under different rules where the creation of the product is cheaper during the process. We rather coupe with what DE delivers or we look elsewhere when the product stagnate. 

It's quite simple. It always was. 

Edited by Felsagger
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Isolation vault drop table is waaay too big. Vault runs are supposed to reward, not to punish. Arum Spinosa part drop chance is idiotic. I have 8 blueprints already, yet only have one part for it. Why Guardian Necramechs drop Scintillant is instead of one of the vault drops is beyond me, since we can find several Scintillants inside the vault hanging around nearly everytime.

Also can you come up with Damaged Necramech Weapon thingy shorter? It is not visible if it is a requirement for certain weapons. All I see is "Damaged Necramech Wea".

And whoever came up with that "Hold to Exit the Vault" idea by the tentacle at the end of the mission needs to be fired. With recent updates it tends to disappear midway while holding and you have to wait and move around for few seconds for it to re-appear.

 

Oh oh, also, could you guys implement the voiceovers of the mission descriptions for veteran players running the mission 10000th time?

Like Isolation Vault voiceover which we have to listen at the beginning, again and again. Why not have alternative line said if players played the mission before: "Hey This is Isolation vault, you know what to do." Or when we encounter Guardian or any other boss. By the time the poor voiceover is finished the boss/guardian are killed long ago. So why not just stop voiceover and run the line, like: Oh, that was quick, carry on. That would bring the sense that whoever is explaining things to you during the mission is actually aware of what is happening, instead of repeat the same unskipable story over and over

Edited by muziqaz
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remove the mission failed title from abort mission and call it what it is which is MISSION ABORTED. cant fail something you did nothing in. and have lotus chime in, since you have rebb

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On 2021-06-10 at 10:59 PM, DieHardBoneHead said:

Please Give us the Option to Convert Relic's (Like 3x Lesser Relic's for a Random Better 1x Relic / 3x Bronze for 1 random Silver 3x Silver for 1x randon Gold ect.) just a Idea

btw for this idea i do not want anyting in return so you guys can do what you please 

Greetings from DieHardBoneHead

You really think nobody at DE has never thought of such a system? 😀

 

Should they implement a system like that there is absolutely no reason to compensate you for it.

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I see that they fixed the profit taker heist exploit but didn't fixed the instant leg regeneration when you destroy a leg immediately after shield down of profit taker. And also haven't fixed aoe damage for which the hitbox is at her bottom than her whole big head, her head is at her bottom. 

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2 minutes ago, TensorAn said:

I see that they fixed the profit taker heist exploit but didn't fixed the instant leg regeneration when you destroy a leg immediately after shield down of profit taker. And also haven't fixed aoe damage for which the hitbox is at her bottom than her whole big head, her head is at her bottom. 

What exploit?

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I don't really know what is that exploit. I think it's called pylon skip but I never came across such a bug. Apparently you can skip a pylon phase when you deal large enough damage with velocitus groll riven to 1 shot her health. 

As I said, I don't really know what that bug is but if they fixed that exploit, they should have also fixed the other bugs I mentioned, at the same time.

Edited by TensorAn
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3 minutes ago, TensorAn said:

I don't really know what is that exploit. I think it's called pylon skip but I never came across such a bug. Apparently you can skip a pylon phase when you deal large enough damage with velocitus groll riven to 1 shot her health. 

As I said, I don't really know what that bug is but if they fixed that exploit, they should have also fixed the other bugs I mentioned at the same time.

I'd say it's the infinite punch through from a certain gun, that shoots through the pylon shields, but that gun is meant to do that.

edit:
Unless there was an exploit I hadn't heard of, who knows. lol I read about the fixes in patch notes.

Edited by Slayer-.
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5 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

I'd say it's the infinite punch through from a certain gun, that shoots through the pylon shields, but that gun is meant to do that.

Oh that's zenith, but I wasn't referring to this case. There are 2 phases of pylons, and I think with aforementioned exploit you can actually skip a pylon phase, basically meaning, you can actually skip a phase with this boss fight. There are 3 phases in profit taker fight, but with the exploit you can skip 1 phase.

There is no problem or bug with the zenith and this gun shooting the pylons through infinite punch through

Edited by TensorAn
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1 minute ago, TensorAn said:

Oh that's zenith, but I wasn't referring to this case. There are 2 phases of pylons, and I think with aforementioned exploit you can actually skip a pylon phase, basically meaning, you can actually skip a phase with this boss fight. There are 3 phases in profit taker fight, but with the exploit you can skip 1 phase.

 

Ok never heard of that one, I read about exploit fixed when their post in hotfixes.

Geez who tries to find out ways to get around stuff like this, just play the damn game properly I say. :(

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On 2021-06-24 at 8:23 AM, Slayer-. said:

Ok never heard of that one, I read about exploit fixed when their post in hotfixes.

Geez who tries to find out ways to get around stuff like this, just play the damn game properly I say. :(

 

Fair and unfair.

 

Let's review with some actual facts.  The Exploiter Orb had about 3 phases while in the cave.  That is wall perch to initial cooling duct destruction, cold slams and spawns until two subsequent ducts are destroyed, and a final situation where the orb would climb up top and drop enemies until enough damage was accumulated.

 

The "Exploit" that you are referring to is using a Nova to prime the orb, and slow it down.  If you the simultaneously destroyed the last two cooling ducts at once you'd skip the fial phase of the fight inside.  It was, at most, skipping a situation where enemies dropped onto your head.  Nothing great...

 

The "fix" was to artificially limit the number of vents that could be destroyed in any one phase.  This was not an exploit, you still blew up all of the cooling vents.  It was simply skipping another over long animation that you'd have to wait for, in order to continue the fight.  The fact that DE did this was not to stop "cheating."  It was because they thought that doing this was not what they intended...because they want us locked into another 30-60 seconds of useless animation twice....because that's their vision.

 

 

If it isn't clear, I hated this change.  It was taking a player found way of speeding up a boss fight, and claiming it was dishonest.  It's then linked to a boss that requires you grind for thermia, grind out the boss fight, and then hope for a rare ephemera drop.  Because fashion frame is endgame...but getting there at most two minutes sooner is cheating.

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32 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

 

Fair and unfair.

 

Let's review with some actual facts.  The Exploiter Orb had about 3 phases while in the cave.  That is wall perch to initial cooling duct destruction, cold slams and spawns until two subsequent ducts are destroyed, and a final situation where the orb would climb up top and drop enemies until enough damage was accumulated.

 

The "Exploit" that you are referring to is using a Nova to prime the orb, and slow it down.  If you the simultaneously destroyed the last two cooling ducts at once you'd skip the fial phase of the fight inside.  It was, at most, skipping a situation where enemies dropped onto your head.  Nothing great...

 

The "fix" was to artificially limit the number of vents that could be destroyed in any one phase.  This was not an exploit, you still blew up all of the cooling vents.  It was simply skipping another over long animation that you'd have to wait for, in order to continue the fight.  The fact that DE did this was not to stop "cheating."  It was because they thought that doing this was not what they intended...because they want us locked into another 30-60 seconds of useless animation twice....because that's their vision.

 

 

If it isn't clear, I hated this change.  It was taking a player found way of speeding up a boss fight, and claiming it was dishonest.  It's then linked to a boss that requires you grind for thermia, grind out the boss fight, and then hope for a rare ephemera drop.  Because fashion frame is endgame...but getting there at most two minutes sooner is cheating.

I knew about the Nova one but never bothered with it, then DE put out a hotfix, end of it.

You know DE don't want us to go through stuff/content fast, look at the new mods going to a gamemode that's time gated and tedious, they need to keep us occupied by any means at their disposal.  :tongue:

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15 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

I knew about the Nova one but never bothered with it, then DE put out a hotfix, end of it.

You know DE don't want us to go through stuff/content fast, look at the new mods going to a gamemode that's time gated and tedious, they need to keep us occupied by any means at their disposal.  :tongue:

 

I don't disagree.

 

The problem I have is their justifications.  On one hand, it's a small team.  On another hand, they're an indie developer that should be allowed to release a buggy mess.  On the next hand their grand vision gave us Railjack 1.0.  On yet another hand they are angry that we aren't watching their amazing animations, that mean we can't kill things in a horde shooter, while I then cannot use my Stropha for regular attacks while a Mesa Prime....because it only works for air slams because it bugged out.

 

The consistent shoveling of inconsistent crap, to justify whatever they say this week, is getting old.  Like "it's time for another two year break" old.  I'm getting tired of every single discussion being about how the next grind is going to be fine.  It'll be the one to give us power, in this power fantasy game.  The result is then a resounding wet slap of manure against pavement.  Any time we find ways to make things better it's patched out.  Then you wait two years, DE discovers that things have 0 player participation, and they decrease the grind...because only new players will engage, and if they had a 30+ hour grind they'd simply tune out.

 

 

Ahh, but I digress.  I have been grinding arbitrations to try and earn arcanes...as those five arcanes are literally the only thing left for me to complete everything.  It's been years.  I have all of the shop stuff.  I have 0 completed arcanes, and 578 vitus essence.  All I can say is that it'll be nice to feel like the stuff matters...even if only for the 20 seconds it takes to get one of each mod.  Then more than 4 million endo I'm sitting on will be easy to plow into these (at about 40k a pop that's 3*4*40000=580000 endo...or about 600,000 total).  That means day one I've got no grind at all....except the acolytes to get the arcanes...and the arcane unlockers....and the umbral forma.  Hmmm....it seems like DE has changed the definition of evergreen to ever grind.  Ouch.

Edited by master_of_destiny
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So...

I see that we still haven't learned about the whole perpetual nightwave...because this week marks being able to get to level 60.  Unsurprisingly we're locked out of getting more standing and there's no announced end to this "intermission."

 

Come on DE.  Are we asleep at the wheel....because content that was too big for Railack 3.0 is still awaiting release more than three months later?  Ah well...I look forward to hastily slapping another 15-20 levels onto this thing, announcing an end to it at Tennocon, and another hastily slapped on 15 levels between that announcement and the actual transition.  By which point I'll have enough catalysts and reactors that three years of content will barely make a dent in the pile.  

It makes me sad that new users are bound to this system.  If I started six months ago I'd only have seen an intermission (I'm looking a 2-1-2021 with today as 6-28-21, so about 3 days of nothing as well).  Oh boy, has this been an improvement over alerts...like a shattered knee is an improvement over a fractured spinal column.  Sometimes the difference seems minimal....but we still wind-up with an experience that is unpleasant.  The illusion of choice is better than the certainty of RNG though...just like the current structure of rewards....too soon?

 

 

3 hours ago, AeliosZero said:

I mean if DE needs more hands, I'd be happy to help! HMU DE!

 

This is an insane notion.  I cannot even believe it continues to be relevant.  DE is reporting that it has 300+ employees.  As they have no other projects...because each died a miserable death...you have to assume that at least 150 of those 300 are developing the game.  That's giving a large estimation of their overhead staff...but I'm willing to run with it.

 

What do comparable studios release with that kind of staff?  Obsidian had about 200 staff when they released the Outer Worlds.  A game based off of Unreal 4...and heavily modified to support a competent RPG.  200/300 is 67% as many people.

 

Honestly I don't want to spend a few hours searching this out.  The real short of this is that DE is a small indie when what they release is garbage.  They're an arm of Ten Cent when it comes to monetization...despite claiming no influence...because a 7 USD skin is definitely a free-to-play tactic of charging for cosmetics.  Lord knows, even the developers joke that fashion frame is endgame.  We really need to stop letting DE get away with this, and hold them to task for what has been released.

 

What do I know though?  It's not like the last 4 years have been a two release per year cycle...with DE admitting that they consistently are not ready to release when they do.  Seriously, go back and read their statements to the media about "working to the 11th hour on features they were not sure if they could get done on-time for the release."  It's like being in high school again, and watching someone slap together a presentation for class the night before.  The catch is DE was the student, and they defined when a thing was due.  It's...laughable.

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can there be a means to have syndicates pay out medallions after your capped. when your capped and noting to buy you have no reason to do the missions, the reward goes to the void and your just collecting the medallions, in the end. its no different then doing diemos missions, stocking up points. having the missions payout medallions would nice. alternatively.

i would like to have a nightwave-ish means to all the syndicates so i can gain a item without have any relation to them. or you can still do that multi tenno thing i left somewhere LOL

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On 2021-06-28 at 10:13 PM, xXkrentonXx said:

can there be a means to have syndicates pay out medallions after your capped. when your capped and noting to buy you have no reason to do the missions, the reward goes to the void and your just collecting the medallions, in the end. its no different then doing diemos missions, stocking up points. having the missions payout medallions would nice. alternatively.

i would like to have a nightwave-ish means to all the syndicates so i can gain a item without have any relation to them. or you can still do that multi tenno thing i left somewhere LOL

 

?  

 

The "evergreen" reward here is the relic packs.  You can continue to collect them nearly forever.  I say this because you need prime junk for Baro, you need a source for forma blue prints, and if you're feeling froggy you can trade some prime items for platinum.  

 

I don't think DE will ever offer the standing-medallions situation.  Imagine for a moment that they did.  The medallions can be turned in infinitely.  As such, on the date of a new prime access you'd get people turning in literal thousands of medallions to get a flood of relics...so they could get the new prime quickly.  That's just bad business when you can instead charge people more than the price of a new AAA game for some platinum, 1 frame, 2 weapons, and the related slots/reactors/catalysts.  

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On 2021-06-28 at 6:45 AM, master_of_destiny said:

 

What do I know though?  It's not like the last 4 years have been a two release per year cycle...with DE admitting that they consistently are not ready to release when they do. 

Indeed. 

Many people on these forums knows how to prevent this. DE MUST PLAY THEIR OWN GAME before the release of these updates. DE IS NOT PLAY TESTING THEIR OWN UPDATES FOR THE GAME. Many of these mistakes are fundamental.  It takes few plays with the content to uncover them. Many suggested that few players play test first the content and see if the proposal of the 'grind' makes sense with the rest of the game. 

Why not let few veteran players playtest the game and address the possible recommendations? 

 

On 2021-06-28 at 6:45 AM, master_of_destiny said:

Seriously, go back and read their statements to the media about "working to the 11th hour on features they were not sure if they could get done on-time for the release."  It's like being in high school again, and watching someone slap together a presentation for class the night before.  The catch is DE was the student, and they defined when a thing was due.  It's...laughable.

Pretty much. Experimentalism should not be the philosophy of game design when people pays for a product. However improvisation on content for Warframe is the quotidian practice because the nature of this product is based on another form of indirect payment.  

1. MORE GRINDING IS NOT CONTENT, DE. How could anyone consider time sinks, time foundry gates, gear checks, XP gates and RNG content for a game? Isn't that Pachinko?

 Do you remember how amazing was Second Dream? Do you know how amazing was the Sevagoth quest with those chanty music? Yes, this is what we love about DE. We want more of that strangeness and enigmatic approach to the Warframe Universe. Content like this is hard to produce but when is done right the impact on the game is positive. 

2. CAPITALIZE ON WHAT PEOPLE ENJOY THE MOST, DE. We all like customization and design. We like exploration and puzzle solving. We like and enjoy exploring hidden items in the game. 

Somehow the Tenno customization is a bit limited and rudimentary. I would like to customize the colors independently the sleeves, legs, hood and suit However some colors are tied to the whole suit ruining my idea. People invest money for these options because they enjoy them. More customization tools always provides more variety and personalization for the game. 

Hydron is the presentation card of the game for many users. Make farming levels more interesting instead of an up and down piston in the case of Hydron. The new tileset of mars and the new corpus ships is amazing.  

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Is Catabolyst not auto-reloading a design feature or a bug? Whenever I empty the clip it just sits there at 0 and I have to manually reload weapon each time

nearly a month later, I am still after that stupid Arum Spinosa Rivet. I have crap tonne of other parts, especially the main blueprint, yet this magical rivet is nowhere to be seen. This getting stupid beyond belief on a level of some super rare prime parts. This is just a weapon, and I have loads of other items from the drop table of Isolation Vault, yet a simple weapon part eludes me for months.

And Arcana Isolation vault rewards are even more stupid than normal Isolation Vault ones. Seeing how you have to go past Isolation Vault in order to get to Arcana, how does that make any sense?

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On 2021-06-24 at 2:04 PM, TensorAn said:

I see that they fixed the profit taker heist exploit but didn't fixed the instant leg regeneration when you destroy a leg immediately after shield down of profit taker. And also haven't fixed aoe damage for which the hitbox is at her bottom than her whole big head, her head is at her bottom. 

 

On 2021-06-24 at 2:08 PM, Slayer-. said:

What exploit?

That's what I want to know 🤔

On 2021-06-24 at 2:14 PM, TensorAn said:

I don't really know what is that exploit. I think it's called pylon skip but I never came across such a bug. Apparently you can skip a pylon phase when you deal large enough damage with velocitus groll riven to 1 shot her health. 

As I said, I don't really know what that bug is but if they fixed that exploit, they should have also fixed the other bugs I mentioned, at the same time.

This is news....

And yeah... I'm not surprised they ner--- err I mean "Fixed" it.... It turns an extremely long tedious fight into an Moderately Short Tedious Fight....

 

Can't have that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ !!!

On 2021-06-24 at 2:23 PM, Slayer-. said:

Geez who tries to find out ways to get around stuff like this, just play the damn game properly I say. :(

NEVER 😠 !!!

On 2021-06-27 at 7:02 AM, master_of_destiny said:

 

The problem I have is their justifications.  On one hand, it's a small team. 

Digital Extremes is still considered small ? 🤔

Don't they have over 100 Employees at their main office alone ?

Not to mention there's a seperate studio working on the Chinese version of the game ?

I thought DE was big time and has been for 3 Years now... 

On 2021-06-28 at 12:45 PM, master_of_destiny said:

This is an insane notion.  I cannot even believe it continues to be relevant.  DE is reporting that it has 300+ employees.  As they have no other projects...because each died a miserable death...you have to assume that at least 150 of those 300 are developing the game.  That's giving a large estimation of their overhead staff...but I'm willing to run with it.

Yep... I suspected as much 😁...

On 2021-06-30 at 6:28 AM, master_of_destiny said:

That's just bad business when you can instead charge people more than the price of a new AAA game for some platinum, 1 frame, 2 weapons, and the related slots/reactors/catalysts.  

Pretty much.... I know it's subjective... The value for money you get out of Warframe seems pretty lobsided when you compare it with anything else you can spend it on in steam whether it's on sale or not.... And there's always something on sale...

 

 

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