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Let's Talk Glaives


ThePunkyReason

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The Situation

Glaives are hilariously over-tuned, particularly glaive prime. A standard glaive heavy attack build with volatile quick return guarantees 66,000 damage slash ticks on glaive prime. I have a friend who uses the cerata, which is a horrible weapon, yet it is still able to pull off similarly ludicrous damage numbers. This deletes everything in one shot even into level 500 steel path enemies in a huge AoE. It is safe to say that the game has never seen anything remotely this powerful, except maybe maiming strike atterax, even kuva bramma or tonkor at their most powerful were nowhere in the same ballpark as glaives.

The Problem

Many people are understandably skeptical of nerfs, but glaives (and most melees in general, but especially glaives) are so powerful that any DPS frame except one that is buffing weapon damage is completely outclassed by any frame just spamming a glaive. Frames like Vauban or Khora that group up enemies make these weapons even more absurd and it is not unusual for my vauban to score 80-90% of team damage in missions despite being a support/cc frame. Mesa, baruuk, or lavos would kill to have damage like that, but they don't. So why would you use the DPS frames if the point is they are doing more damage than if you went a non-damage frame, but the best damage comes from glaives? There isn't a reason, you will always go a buffer, cc or tanky frame and spam glaives. 

Nerf glaives, nerf melee and make dps frames relevant again. 

 

 

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People dismissed this in the past, I can still see the problems with it but in general, even with the powercreep, the general playerbase still doesnt use them, so I think it'll continue in this state until notorious youtubers starts complaining about it

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6 minutes ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

The only changes I want to glaives are:

Glaives and other one handed weapons when? 1RX5X8D.jpg

Give glaives Ash’s mark feature.

I don't. I want dual wielding completely gone from the game. Nuke it. Blow it all up.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Eject_Magazine

Quick attack already works very well between melee/primary... I'd like the same behavior for melee/secondary.

 

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While I agree that glaives are overtuned as all Hek they aren't pushing out dps frames. The damage glaives output is extreme overkill in over 99% of the game while taking a greater degree of effort than frames (you know the game is in a bad state when a generous timing system and lazily aiming towards enemies is too much effort). Plus frames have better range then glaives while some can also ignore walls entirely.

Also, imo, they should get nerfed but still remained somewhat overtuned. Just for how iconic they are and the history they have with the game and Darksector.

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1 hour ago, vanaukas said:

People dismissed this in the past, I can still see the problems with it but in general, even with the powercreep, the general playerbase still doesnt use them, so I think it'll continue in this state until notorious youtubers starts complaining about it

This is my thought. I think Glaives are the Octavia of melee weapons: stupidly powerful, but for whatever reason, don't jive with players enough that they catch on.

And it kinda makes sense. The strength of Glaives is in using them as anything but a melee weapon. If you're the sort that doesn't want a melee weapon, that thing is right up your alley. But those aren't very common. (Personally I theorize it has to do with Warframe being in a third-person perspective. I've played other TPS games where things progressed toward the melee end. I guess it just feels more comfortable?)

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10 hours ago, ThePunkyReason said:

I have a friend who uses the cerata, which is a horrible weapon, yet it is still able to pull off similarly ludicrous damage numbers. This deletes everything in one shot even into level 500 steel path enemies in a huge AoE.

Why would it be a horrible weapon then...? You're just saying that to inflate your argument. 

And that is more than likely not level 500 Grineer, unless you're exploiting one of the frames massively bugged with Glaives, like Chroma.

10 hours ago, ThePunkyReason said:

So why would you use the DPS frames if the point is they are doing more damage than if you went a non-damage frame

Because overkill damage doesn't matter, and it's this thought process that caused DE to hide said stat when they updated the UI.

And DPS frames matter because they kill enemies in a 50m radius, not a 7m one. And that is 100% relevant in any content that's relevant. 

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As a player who's been a glaive user as long as I've played Warframe its been nice to have them actually be decent. Would like them to stay good for a while before we nerf them back into obscurity. I must be doing something though wrong because my glavies don't delete anything over 150-60 "instantly" like all these builds people claim to have do. I have what i'd consider a pretty "standard" build on my Glaive prime (no riven they're way to expensive) and its not nearly as OP as folks are saying. They must be using some specialized loadouts with frames and arcanes to rack up those numbers and if so, that should not be a basis to nerf an entire weapon class on.

Really though this is the first PvE game I've ever played where the community complains about good gear and actively seeks nerfs. lol

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Is it really a problem?

I dont really see glaives that often , probably because its more like a tonkor, ogris or chakurr when used for the heavy explosives (with internal bleeding/HM maybe?).

which requires some aiming ,

then a little bit of waiting for the glaive to return ,

and has the knockback if you use it too close.

And to top it all ,it is not affected by Condition overload on explosions.

None of these are issues that exist for regular melee weapons , so it makes sense that glaives are not used as often,

I personally feel they are in a good state where they are.

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Here's the thing: you're not wrong. Glaives do have an extreme damage capability right now. 

But people generally still don't use them. Why?

Because Glaives require watching the screen, aiming the throw, and detonating it at the right moment. In a grind game that is simply too much effort.

Most of us have acclimated to the fact that Warframe is a grind game that doesn't require skill, so we're choosing the easiest possible option. It doesn't matter how fun your gameplay is, if you require players to repeat the same mission several dozen times, they will get bored. So most of us are just equipping a melee weapon with even a substandard mod build and spamming E while waving the mouse around a bit. Why? Because we can do this while watching Netflix, which helps a lot because of the low drop chance RNG grinds in the game. If you need to repeat the same activity several dozen times, you'll choose a method where you can distract yourself to combat the inevitable boredom. 

This is why single-target guns will never be meta for general missions (only AOE stuff like Simulor, Ignis, Bramma, etc...), and why Glaives will never be a meta melee weapon. Sure, your glaive can kill the enemies faster, but why would you bother, when you can kill them fast enough using spam E while watching Netflix?

Basically, you can buff glaives to do infinite damage and it won't matter, they still won't be meta because they require the basic minimum of actually paying attention which is not advisable in a game fully loaded with grind and RNG.

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In a grind you spend dozens of hours playing, you can't use something which needs too much focus
ATM you can use glaives for fun but once you need to Farm something for 15 hours using a glaive is just tedious.

But who knows once melee are nerfs and becomes tedious, maybe people will start using glaves which will be also nerfed then...

Srsly never seen a community calling for nerfs, so more items become useless, usually companies do that themself to sell the new stuff, some even want p2w battle pass and such

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7 hours ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

The only changes I want to glaives are:

Glaives and other one handed weapons when? 

Happy GIF

it's nice that someone else remembers DE's old promise of making dual-wielding a thing for all one handed weapons. sometimes I wonder if I'm crazy and they never actually said that, and I'm just imagining it because I want it.

IMO, Glaives do have ludicrous damage, which is probably going to be hit hard in the upcoming balancing changes. I do think that they should be somewhat stronger than other melees when thrown though: it's still more effort to keep throwing glaives accurately (especially aiming for heads) than it is to just mash a single button with other types. let's also not forget that gunblades are in a similar Position: Stropha/Redeemer prime Meta is still going strong. 

if Glaives were made to automatically home in on enemies without any aiming requirement whatsoever, I'd be fine with them taking a damage nerf to compensate, but IMO the need to take a moment to aim for an enemy's head and throw properly justifies the higher damage, same as with other precision weapons like Snipers.  

 

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I use the Orvius, mainly because it's a callback to the smart disc from Predator 2 with Danny Glover, so I can't speak for Glaive Prime, Pathocyst or any of the other versions.

 

I modded the Orvius for crit damage, taking advantage of the "x2 for heavy attacks" and mainly throw it to detonate. Probably I haven't even built it right.

Still, since the damage is so high, I started removing damage mods, and instead put on Lifestrike and Dispatch Overdrive.

In practice, that means I fully heal myself on every detonation, more or less one-hit everything, and have 60% movement speed.

On top of that, the Orvius has autoaim, to the point I almost don't even have to aim in the general direction. The autoaim can also be used around corners, so I don't even have open myself to being hit. Additionally, it also has AOE damage, splash damage and long range for a melee weapon, because my disc will get to the npc, before other melee users can reach the target.

When I play now I try to stay out of people's kills, if I can see they are going for something, I do pauses strictly thinking I need to let other people play too.

Usually I end up getting up to 90% of the damage, even when people got twice as many kills as me.

Only if an active Mesa or Saryn shows up their range steals the kills.

 

 

 

 

 

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Quote

Let's Talk Glaives

Let's not...
There is nothing to talk about - de finally did something great, but it was so good that the community will make it trash again. End of topic.
Have fun with them while you can, after that >>> in the trash with all the other things that were overnerfed.

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8 hours ago, vegetosayajin said:

Let's not...
There is nothing to talk about - de finally did something great, but it was so good that the community will make it trash again. End of topic.
Have fun with them while you can, after that >>> in the trash with all the other things that were overnerfed.

*cough* Glaives don't work with Condition Overload, therefore they are already trash. Nothing to see here folks. Glaives are trash, just forget you ever saw this topic and let us Glaive users enjoy our trashy buggy weapons that can't even use meta mods like Condition Overload!

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I don't get it. For a long time glaives were pretty irrelevant and rarely used. People wanted it buffed. Now that they are buffed and relevant again, people want them nerfed.

I don't see too many people using glaives anyway and other melees are just as capable of mowing down steel path mobs. Upcoming melee and guns balancing will probably nerf glaives and then the 'de has destroyed melee' posts will begin. 

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On 2021-06-10 at 7:34 PM, xcrimsonlegendx said:

As a player who's been a glaive user as long as I've played Warframe its been nice to have them actually be decent. Would like them to stay good for a while before we nerf them back into obscurity. I must be doing something though wrong because my glavies don't delete anything over 150-60 "instantly" like all these builds people claim to have do. I have what i'd consider a pretty "standard" build on my Glaive prime (no riven they're way to expensive) and its not nearly as OP as folks are saying. They must be using some specialized loadouts with frames and arcanes to rack up those numbers and if so, that should not be a basis to nerf an entire weapon class on.

Really though this is the first PvE game I've ever played where the community complains about good gear and actively seeks nerfs. lol

I think it's because people just can't help being...people. Just reviewing 2020 and 2021 American behavior should be enough to examine that.

As for glaives being op, I love it! They are powerful but quirky options, completely changes your typical melee play style and compliments certain Warframes well while not so much others. Yet again, a nice boost to variety.

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