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Wall running instead of wall hanging.


Prexades

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Watching the Gara Prime trailer, I think it would be more interesting if we could get a wall running option back. As I understand it was part of the game long ago before the movement system was changed to include bullet jumps. Still wall runs are featured from time to time in the Warframe trailers and I think it would make a fitting alternative to just hanging from a wall, which aside from a few riven unlocks, I rarely use.

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2 minutes ago, pascaLLL_ said:

Did they remove wall running or something?

I think what we have is more like wall hopping, and there’s very few places where it’s even possible to execute. Just about every wall has stuff on it that’ll cause you to get stuck

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Pretty sure returning them in place of the wall hopping is something the devs have discussed previously. Problem is that it's likely a painfully low priority considering wall hopping isn't even relevant to begin with. Wall latching however is at least used in at least used in a few cases on Lua.

Also their original reason for replacing it with the hopping in the first place never made sense anyways. IIRC it was so that it doesn't get caught on map geometry yet the old animation rarely had that issue and is completely irrelevant now with modern map designs.

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26 minutes ago, Prexades said:

We only have small bunny hops, while clinging to a wall

Will you use the wall-run option if you're bulletjumping everywhere already? 🤔

I wall-hop/climb everywhere. If you want some tips, I can give them. The change to the movement system has been my all-time favourite update, and bulletjumping isn't the reason why

edit: If you're thinking the old parkour system was smooth as silk, it was a nightmare to really use effectively. You could sort of get places, but it was really really fiddly. You had to position yourself just right to start a wall climb, and while wallruns were a little easier to initiate, it was such a pain to try and dismount well (not to mention if you started your wallrun a tiny bit lower than your destination, you were sort of locked into the run and would crash against a little ledge or something). And dismounting was quite restrictive; you couldn't run up a wall and then jump off to the side, it was a straight back-flip or nothing

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56 minutes ago, trst said:

Pretty sure returning them in place of the wall hopping is something the devs have discussed previously. Problem is that it's likely a painfully low priority considering wall hopping isn't even relevant to begin with. Wall latching however is at least used in at least used in a few cases on Lua.

I remember them discussing it prior to the release of the Gas City (Jupiter) rework, but nothing came of it. It was either scrapped or is in development limbo (and it'll remain that way for a LONG time).

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1 hour ago, trst said:

Pretty sure returning them in place of the wall hopping is something the devs have discussed previously. Problem is that it's likely a painfully low priority considering wall hopping isn't even relevant to begin with. Wall latching however is at least used in at least used in a few cases on Lua.

Also their original reason for replacing it with the hopping in the first place never made sense anyways. IIRC it was so that it doesn't get caught on map geometry yet the old animation rarely had that issue and is completely irrelevant now with modern map designs.

A much simpler solution would’ve been to just enable the wall run animation to clip through “wall decorations.”

Instead they gave us a new wall running system, and apparently never checked to see if it still had the same problems?

Cause it does.

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Wallrun mechanic is one of the most satisfying thing to do in videogames if it got executed even just decently. It is on par with other legendary mechanics in videogames such as headshots, cover shooting, qte finishers, swinging, or counter parrying.

Totally legit studies have also long confirmed that having a character that are able to do wallrun will increase their baddassery by 5 points minimal. Which is invaluable for adding personality to the whole IP itself.

So when i started playing warframe and got the tutorial for wallrun, I thought to myself "of course this awesome character can wall run. Why wouldn't it?? I mean it can do all these gravity defying bullet jumps, even can double jump as a basic ability. Why wouldn't it wallrun??"

 

Imagine my disappointment upon learning that it's just some lame awkward wall hopping thing...

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11 minutes ago, Soy77 said:

Wallrun mechanic is one of the most satisfying thing to do in videogames if it got executed even just decently. It is on par with other legendary mechanics in videogames such as headshots, cover shooting, qte finishers, swinging, or counter parrying.

Totally legit studies have also long confirmed that having a character that are able to do wallrun will increase their baddassery by 5 points minimal. Which is invaluable for adding personality to the whole IP itself.

So when i started playing warframe and got the tutorial for wallrun, I thought to myself "of course this awesome character can wall run. Why wouldn't it?? I mean it can do all these gravity defying bullet jumps, even can double jump as a basic ability. Why wouldn't it wallrun??"

 

Imagine my disappointment upon learning that it's just some lame awkward wall hopping thing...

Can relate. In Ghostrunner wall running is automatic. If you are airborne next to a wall you will start wall running. This wouldn’t work for warframe, as our maps aren’t designed with enough intentionality, we would need a dedicated button for it.

But wall latching would actually be a really dope mechanic to mix in with wall running. To be able to stop at any point and open fire from an elevated position. However, wall latching in isolation is pretty garbage.

Unfortunately the head of design prefers to take away things rather than add them. So I guess we’ll never know how good a system like that would be in warframe.

IMO there’s actually a lot warframe really needs to catch up on. Like, we have our Parazon, and in cutscenes we use it like a grapple, yet there’s been no grapple points added anywhere in game?

Core warframe is good, but core warframe is and has been dated for a while. 
 

on stream the devs did say that core warframe would be receiving same major updates at Tennocon. I don’t know what to expect, but I know I’m already doubtful and hesitant :D

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In my opinion, the wall-hop is a conceptually superior method. What I mean by that is that it makes far more sense mechanically, logically and contextually. I see it as a clever use of our "wall-latch" ability. It also feels more natural to be able to just suddenly stop the hopping and transition into a latch then it is from a proper run. Wall-running would look "cooler" in some instances and if the game was in first person the hopping would make the game unbearably wobbly. But the game is not in first person.

One other issue that people might not immediately think of is that we are too fast to wall-run. Walls that are big enough to warrant this are few and far between with the best exception being the new Jupiter tileset. But even there I'll argue that when simply running along a wall, we wouldn't have enough control over our movements to not have to stop, hop around a bit and continue running that it would essentially boil down to what we have now. 

I will, however, posit that it would be perfect on a frame that can move freely along walls and ceilings. Now the trick there is to figure out how it would work mechanically without a third of the player-base needing a bucket to play, but if we had a frame the shtick of which is that it moves along any surface the same way, hopping there would just be weird. 

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29 minutes ago, Lakais said:

In my opinion, the wall-hop is a conceptually superior method. What I mean by that is that it makes far more sense mechanically, logically and contextually. I see it as a clever use of our "wall-latch" ability. It also feels more natural to be able to just suddenly stop the hopping and transition into a latch then it is from a proper run. Wall-running would look "cooler" in some instances and if the game was in first person the hopping would make the game unbearably wobbly. But the game is not in first person.

One other issue that people might not immediately think of is that we are too fast to wall-run. Walls that are big enough to warrant this are few and far between with the best exception being the new Jupiter tileset. But even there I'll argue that when simply running along a wall, we wouldn't have enough control over our movements to not have to stop, hop around a bit and continue running that it would essentially boil down to what we have now. 

I will, however, posit that it would be perfect on a frame that can move freely along walls and ceilings. Now the trick there is to figure out how it would work mechanically without a third of the player-base needing a bucket to play, but if we had a frame the shtick of which is that it moves along any surface the same way, hopping there would just be weird. 

I hadn’t thought of this, and I’m studying animation 😋. Good points

The wall-hop flows well as a dodging tool (as well as most walls that a player’d be wall-climbing on are quite small). I often just sort of touch onto a wall before bouncing off in the opposite direction, and for poles and pillars around the level it makes sense for it to be a bounce instead of a whole transition into a wall run that's just going to awkwardly transition back out into a jump almost immediately after.

(The Orokin tileset as well as the Jupiter tileset has a lot of tiles that are fantastic for wall-hopping, and each of the other tilesets has a handful of large-enough spaces that bouncing around is practical)

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tl;dr; void dash is more badass and stronger than old wall running

Movement is one of the rare things that I feel are still really good in wf(and it will probably be the most memorable features of the game), ofc like most players I loved pre parkour thing, however current parkour mechanics are pretty neat because it requires some degree or precision to get things right in many tilesets and it's generic enough so all frames, especially the slow ones, can move pretty well assuming the player knows what he is doing. On that regard wall running makes no sense anymore, we are bullet jumping all the time from different trajectories or void dashing, wall latching is a o S#&$ manoeuver that let you stay there and keep moving slower. wich overall imho makes more sense on vertical surfaces and is kind of balanced as well "oh so you are bad, I guess you'll have to climb".

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7 hours ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

Can relate. In Ghostrunner wall running is automatic. If you are airborne next to a wall you will start wall running. This wouldn’t work for warframe, as our maps aren’t designed with enough intentionality, we would need a dedicated button for it.

But wall latching would actually be a really dope mechanic to mix in with wall running. To be able to stop at any point and open fire from an elevated position. However, wall latching in isolation is pretty garbage.

Unfortunately the head of design prefers to take away things rather than add them. So I guess we’ll never know how good a system like that would be in warframe.

IMO there’s actually a lot warframe really needs to catch up on. Like, we have our Parazon, and in cutscenes we use it like a grapple, yet there’s been no grapple points added anywhere in game?

Core warframe is good, but core warframe is and has been dated for a while. 
 

on stream the devs did say that core warframe would be receiving same major updates at Tennocon. I don’t know what to expect, but I know I’m already doubtful and hesitant :D

I whole fully agree.

Also when it comes to warframe, i curb my expectations to below zero. So whatever crap we'll get, at least in my head it'll always be better than nothing.

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10 hours ago, trst said:

Pretty sure returning them in place of the wall hopping is something the devs have discussed previously. Problem is that it's likely a painfully low priority considering wall hopping isn't even relevant to begin with. Wall latching however is at least used in at least used in a few cases on Lua.

Also their original reason for replacing it with the hopping in the first place never made sense anyways. IIRC it was so that it doesn't get caught on map geometry yet the old animation rarely had that issue and is completely irrelevant now with modern map designs.

I feel like they need to redesign more levels that makes it madatory to wall run. Boss fights aswell.

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7 hours ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

Can relate. In Ghostrunner wall running is automatic. If you are airborne next to a wall you will start wall running. This wouldn’t work for warframe, as our maps aren’t designed with enough intentionality, we would need a dedicated button for it.

But wall latching would actually be a really dope mechanic to mix in with wall running. To be able to stop at any point and open fire from an elevated position. However, wall latching in isolation is pretty garbage.

Unfortunately the head of design prefers to take away things rather than add them. So I guess we’ll never know how good a system like that would be in warframe.

IMO there’s actually a lot warframe really needs to catch up on. Like, we have our Parazon, and in cutscenes we use it like a grapple, yet there’s been no grapple points added anywhere in game?

Core warframe is good, but core warframe is and has been dated for a while. 
 

on stream the devs did say that core warframe would be receiving same major updates at Tennocon. I don’t know what to expect, but I know I’m already doubtful and hesitant :D

Core gameplay really needs an update. 

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8 hours ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

on stream the devs did say that core warframe would be receiving same major updates at Tennocon. I don’t know what to expect, but I know I’m already doubtful and hesitant :D

They did? Which stream?

Also, i know people want to get the durviri paradox and new war, but i would rather have it put on ice in favor of adding to the core gameplay and giving the combat more depth.

I am kinda done with railjack and open world stuff. Give me some good old fashion core gameplay content

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25 minutes ago, (XBOX)WafflyLearner89 said:

They did? Which stream?

Also, i know people want to get the durviri paradox and new war, but i would rather have it put on ice in favor of adding to the core gameplay and giving the combat more depth.

I am kinda done with railjack and open world stuff. Give me some good old fashion core gameplay content

The most recent one. When talking about Tennocon. They repeat it. Multiple times.

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14 hours ago, Lakais said:

n my opinion, the wall-hop is a conceptually superior method.

conceptually, sure.. but we also wanna look cool too, and you just can't make hopping on a wall look good.. running is far more stylish and more fun, anyone who's played Titanfall 2 will know.

Wallrunning - Titanfall GIF - Titanfall WallRunning Wall - Discover & Share  GIFs | Titanfall, Gif, Cool gifs

I think a good compromise would be to program a separate animation for smooth and rough walls:  with  specific walls that are straight and smooth, you could wall-run, whilst hopping would be used to navigate the rest where running would otherwise cause issues such as clipping and falling off. that way we can enjoy both: wall-hops don't lose functionality, but we can still enjoy proper wall-running from time to time. of course, future tilesets can be made with rooms that have more straight walls sometimes as well as curved ones.

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38 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

conceptually, sure.. but we also wanna look cool too, and you just can't make hopping on a wall look good.. running is far more stylish and more fun, anyone who's played Titanfall 2 will know.

Wallrunning - Titanfall GIF - Titanfall WallRunning Wall - Discover & Share  GIFs | Titanfall, Gif, Cool gifs

As someone who loves the Titanfall series (a contributing factor as to why I have three posts in this topic; someone had to bring Titanfall up eventually), I still feel like the wall hop is a fine, active representation of the concept.

As it stands, I’m not convinced the people wanting a wall-run will even use it when they just bulletjump everywhere. Maybe the first few times as a novelty, but when it starts eating into their mission times, eventually they’ll transition back into bypassing any semblance of level design outside of the clearest straight path.

And just as it took practice in Titanfall, the current Warframe wall-hop takes practice as well, and the hypothetical wall-run will take practice. But again, why practice when you can bulletjump?

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