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Revenant and why we need to remove his Eidolon themeing when his Primed version gets released


ElecDeathblade
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Let me explain. His abilities are functional and all, but he's supposed to be themed after Eidolons and Sentients. However, 3 of his 4 abilities are better suited for a vampiric Warframe. Heck, even in the Wiki shows that one of his themes are Vampirism. Also, his backstory is that he was a warden of the Unum's tower that slayed Eidolons, then he disappears and returns, possesed by an Eidolon. Removing the Eidolon theme in his Primed version would make total sense, as it could show how he could look before getting possesed.

Also, even if the Eidolon theme gets removed, Danse Macabre could still make sense, as a warrior that slayed Eidolons he could've mimic some of the Sentinet's moves as one of his own, learning from what he slays.

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1 hour ago, ElecDeathblade said:

Primed version would make total sense, as it could show how he could look before getting possesed.

Prime and vanilla versions are 2 different warframes by lore. It's not a before and after, it's more like original and pirated.

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It does need to be removed otherwise he will be so horribly disconnected from the timeline that it is sad. There is no reason the orokin willingly created a frame with sentient parts in it, since the prior sentient related creations resulted in the very war the frames were built for. There is also zero lore to support a prime getting corrupted by sentients, more specifically eidolons, since eidolons werent a thing until the sentient on Earth got kaboomed by Gara at the very end of the war. The eidolons are found nowhere else, not even on Uranus where Hunhow rests.

Danse can easily have a different animation and be just fine. Since his theme is part vampiric and most of the skills fit that they could just let his Danse take a further step towards the death theme rooted in its name. Either some spinning spectral scythe or just some life draining shadow tendrils striking out from his hands. Tendrils would fit the best probably given how the skill works and that the frame itself isnt death themed as a whole, just the name of his #4 is.

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2 hours ago, kyori said:

Prime and vanilla versions are 2 different warframes by lore. It's not a before and after, it's more like original and pirated.

I know, but could show how the standard Revenant kinda looked before he gets possesed.

 

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

The eidolons are found nowhere else, not even on Uranus where Hunhow rests.

You could say that the Ropalolyst is the closest to an Eidolon outside the plains, but yes, Eidolons can't be found outside of the plains.

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1 minute ago, ElecDeathblade said:

You could say that the Ropalolyst is the closest to an Eidolon outside the plains, but yes, Eidolons can't be found outside of the plains.

Kinda, but it got revamped pre-release and turned into a "true" sentient that ended up on Jupiter instead.

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we are not going back in time, we are, with the primes, just reviving his original body. But his Oro is already tainted by the eidolon energy

so no, it doesn't even have in lore reasons to his prime be different.

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1 hour ago, DoomFruit said:

That ship sailed along time ago when Valkyr Prime got released - something else whose lore conflicts with its very existence. Did DE care? Nope.

On the other hand... if they want us Revenant players to spend forma and a catalyst on his prime version, base stat tweaks aren't going to provide any incentive given how Mesmer Skin works. 

If they change the 4th skill, then there will be a reason to invest in Revenant Prime if you already have a decked out Revenant.

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People saying that DE won't change him and that this is bait.

Well, Ivara was inspired by a poisonous frog and her prime is inspired by a jellyfish.

I'm just saying to change ONE THING of his design, nothing more. No nerfs, no buffs, just a cosmetic stuff.

If you're butthurt because I brought that up or you think this is bait, then I invite you to say it with your motives, because of the 4 I've seen that disagree with me, only 2 give reasons while the other 2 say that this is bait or that this is a waste of time.

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22 hours ago, LupoDWolf said:

But his Oro is already tainted by the eidolon energy

Well, two things.

1. The Revenant that was tainted was the normal one, the prime one is a different Revenant. Primes are different to the normal ones. Like someone said in this thread:

On 2021-06-16 at 2:01 PM, kyori said:

it's more like original and pirated.

2. Prime versions are made by the Orokin. Do you think the Orokin would make a Warframe based on a Sentient, one of their biggest failures and mistakes? If they did, then the Orokin were really dumb.

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22 hours ago, Dauggie said:

DE aint changing S#&$.. cmon don't waste your time. 

Ivara is a poisonous frog and Ivara Prime is a jellyfish. If they changed something so minuscule, sure they can change Revenant Prime to remove the Eidolon themeing.

And if you think I'm wasting my time, then look to other threads, I've seen people complaining about Yareli despite her not gewtting released yet.

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On 2021-06-16 at 6:27 AM, ElecDeathblade said:

Let me explain. His abilities are functional and all, but he's supposed to be themed after Eidolons and Sentients. However, 3 of his 4 abilities are better suited for a vampiric Warframe. Heck, even in the Wiki shows that one of his themes are Vampirism. Also, his backstory is that he was a warden of the Unum's tower that slayed Eidolons, then he disappears and returns, possesed by an Eidolon.

Logically, it makes perfect sense. Revenant was created to seal the sentient drone fragments generated after the destruction of the drone by Gara, which means absorbing their energy. Energy can be absorbed through a resonance, which needs a combination of frequencies of regular energy and Tau. Vampirism is a similar thing, without Tau. If amount of absorbed Tau energy exceeds the capacity, the Tau cores incorporated into the frame may overcome, apparently power-wise, standard Helminth cores. So, Revenant was unable to convert or otherwise utilize this Tau energy and decided to become dormant, probably after Unum concluded that the mission is accomplished and overall Tau on the Plains is sufficiently weakened to a point when it is unable to breach the barriers. Seems like it is all centered around vampirism, which is energy absorption. IDK of course, but seems rather consistent. At least, I don't see any issues here lore-wise.

Operator has no issues with Tau due to substantial and critcal role of Tau energy in transference. Hence, prime variant makes perfect sense, should be completely functional.

Edited by akots
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49 minutes ago, ElecDeathblade said:

2. Prime versions are made by the Orokin. Do you think the Orokin would make a Warframe based on a Sentient, one of their biggest failures and mistakes? If they did, then the Orokin were really dumb.

Ya tell it to the one who wrote that lore in DE.

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16 minutes ago, akots said:

Logically, it makes perfect sense. Revenant was created to seals the sentient drone fragments generated after the destruction of the drone by Gara, which means absorbing their energy. Energy can be absorbed through a resonance, which needs a combination of frequencies of regular energy and Tau. Vampirism is a similar thing, without Tau. If amount of absorbed Tau energy exceeds the capacity, the Tau cores incorporated into the frame may overcome, apparently power-wise, standard Helminth cores. So, Revenant was unable to convert or otherwise utilize this Tau energy and decided to become dormant, probably after Unum concluded that the mission is accomplished and overall Tau on the Plains is sufficiently weakened to a point when it is unable to breach the barriers. Seems like it is all centered around vampirism, which is energy absorption. IDK of course, but seems rather consistent. At least, I don't see any issues here lore-wise.

Operator has no issues with Tau due to substantial and critcal role of Tau energy in transference. Hence, prime variant makes perfect sense, should be completely functional.

I mean, your explanaition makes a lot of sense, but I still think that the Eidolon themeing for the Prime version wouldn't be good. Orokin wouldn't design a warframe based on a Sentient (if DE don't #*!% up the lore), specially a Sentient type that only started appearing in one point of Earth supposedly long after they designed that Primed warframe.

Still, by how someone said this is a bait and someone else said that I'm wasting my time, I think people just don't care anymore, at least in these forums.

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7 minutes ago, ElecDeathblade said:

Orokin wouldn't design a warframe based on a Sentient (if DE don't #*!% up the lore), specially a Sentient type that only started appearing in one point of Earth supposedly long after they designed that Primed warframe.

I'm not sure why not. Unum has been the core of the empire, which gives it a unity, apart from basic means of tower construction, and if Unum falls, all hope is lost for everyone, So, IMHO, just a word from a reliable agent about the future and a possible need for setient containment should be enough to design and create a frame specifically for that purpose. Also, spacetime, which does not seem to be a problem for Unum, at least in terms of analysis of possible ramifications and outcomes. A Quills quote:

"A secretive order, loyal to the mysterious and reclusive 'Unum'. Some say their relationship to cause and effect is unnatural, their knowledge profane. When a Quill acts, things change."

Seems that the Council of Seven actually listened at least in terms of warframe design. IMO, Unum protection should have been their rational priority in the Old War.

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3 hours ago, ElecDeathblade said:

People saying that DE won't change him and that this is bait.

Well, Ivara was inspired by a poisonous frog and her prime is inspired by a jellyfish.

Seems like we might agree that Bootleg Yareli Prime's not a real match of a skin for Ivara's core theme, at least, even if we disagree elsewhere.

3 hours ago, ElecDeathblade said:

2. Prime versions are made by the Orokin. Do you think the Orokin would make a Warframe based on a Sentient, one of their biggest failures and mistakes? If they did, then the Orokin were really dumb.

Nidus Prime will hit the same notes. And the Orokin are too arrogant to not be idiots in the process. "Well if I just mash the thing that didn't work into THIS that I think I can control better, it's bound to work and be as strong as both!" is right up their alley.

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5 hours ago, ElecDeathblade said:

 

1. The Revenant that was tainted was the normal one, the prime one is a different Revenant. Primes are different to the normal ones. Like someone said in this thread:

 

1. where do you saw that? because nowhere in the lore specifies that.
2. ah, nope. Normal warframes are just what the Tenno can make now with our technology. 

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It's a damn video game and not real life. DE can, and will, do whatever they please. (As they've done in the past) They created the game, what you think makes no sense today, can land officially in the leverian, codex and wiki the next day. 

Seriously, unless y'all buy the franchise, you shouldn't run around pointing fingers while acting the world is on fire and saying 'this needs to be removed' when it's not actually affecting anything, especially not "we need" (majority lives happily without giving a darn), "you have to" (the only thing they have to do is keep doing what they're doing). It's a game about space magic after all, literally anything can make sense if DE wants it or changes it to do so. 

Personally, I'm looking forward to all future primes. :) I'm actually excited for the prime roster next year, if they "make sense" or not.

Edited by (XBOX)TyeGoo
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15 hours ago, akots said:

Logically, it makes perfect sense. Revenant was created to seal the sentient drone fragments generated after the destruction of the drone by Gara, which means absorbing their energy. Energy can be absorbed through a resonance, which needs a combination of frequencies of regular energy and Tau. Vampirism is a similar thing, without Tau. If amount of absorbed Tau energy exceeds the capacity, the Tau cores incorporated into the frame may overcome, apparently power-wise, standard Helminth cores. So, Revenant was unable to convert or otherwise utilize this Tau energy and decided to become dormant, probably after Unum concluded that the mission is accomplished and overall Tau on the Plains is sufficiently weakened to a point when it is unable to breach the barriers. Seems like it is all centered around vampirism, which is energy absorption. IDK of course, but seems rather consistent. At least, I don't see any issues here lore-wise.

Operator has no issues with Tau due to substantial and critcal role of Tau energy in transference. Hence, prime variant makes perfect sense, should be completely functional.

What are you rambling on about here? Revenant was not created to "seal the sentient drone fragments". This particular Revenant chose to stay on Earth and battle the Eidolon fragments, night after night. You forget that there would've been multiple Revenant frames created back then. They would not have all been made with the same purpose. This Revenant has only merged with the Eidolon energy because it was tricked to give itself over, thus trapping him. I've no clue where you started a tangent about "cores". What drone did Gara destroy? She destroyed a full on Sentient. Sentients are not "drones". The Eidolons are referred to as "drones". And the Operator doesn't deal in Tau energy, they are powered by Void energy.

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7 hours ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

What are you rambling on about here? Revenant was not created to "seal the sentient drone fragments". This particular Revenant chose to stay on Earth and battle the Eidolon fragments, night after night. You forget that there would've been multiple Revenant frames created back then. They would not have all been made with the same purpose. This Revenant has only merged with the Eidolon energy because it was tricked to give itself over, thus trapping him. I've no clue where you started a tangent about "cores". What drone did Gara destroy? She destroyed a full on Sentient. Sentients are not "drones". The Eidolons are referred to as "drones". And the Operator doesn't deal in Tau energy, they are powered by Void energy.

Sure, you seem to have another point of view. Not going to argue with that.

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The simpliest solution: don't make prime revenant. Maybe go another road and just make another tier, like umbra, but this time 'sentient' or even play with amalgams more.

 

IMO both nidus and revenant shouldn't have prime versions. Both of them do not feel like orokin design, but rather them being an outcome of someone trying to make another types of frames after orokin fell. Ofcourse you can disagree with me. It's just what i feel. No facts nor anything.

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This is exactly what I was thinking with Revenant Prime too. It’s really not a complicated at all. You just have to correlate back to his lore.

Revenant used to be a regular Warframe, with vampiric abilities and all, and got corrupted by the Eidolons. It’s why all of his abilities have an appropriate flare to them, but are not mechanically tied in the same way. Revenant Prime will simply be a gilded vampire with some small flames on his body, and abilities with said theme.

And it would be pretty easy to explain his Dance Macabre too: since the Orokin were developing the Sentients, they probably would have wanted an anti-Sentient tool, so lo and behold Revenant. Plus it would tie back to how pre-corrupted Revenant essentially dedicated his time to fighting off the Eidolons. It’s really that simple.

I guess the only other to worry about in regards to Rev, is his signatures. Although to be honest, a weapon that mainly fires a beam of radiation and a sword that can use the souls of slain victims at its disposal, both sound appropriately Orokin ideas (in my opinion).

Edited by Scruffel
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