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The weapon rebalance (as in new mods) really might just be the most engaging and fun WF has been in a while.


Doraz_
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I don't wanna say " the famous last words" xD but I am truly hyped for the primary/melee changes.

 

In the best of outcomes, it will result in the entire community having days and weeks of experimentarion and farming to figure out (hopefully) which of the new-found freedoms build-wise are more fun to use.

 

And we have (debatably) actual new content to test it :D ... instead of the simulacrum.

 

What's the word ... " carefull optimism" ?

 

no ... "exited as HEK can be!", yeah that's it :3

 

Edited by Doraz_
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  • Doraz_ changed the title to The weapon rebalance (as in new mods) really might just be the most engaging and fun WF has been in a while.
13 minutes ago, Voltage said:

I am skeptical given how Warframe Revised heavily trivialized the melee system as well as enemy threat level.

Honestly, whilst I was very happy with the armour changes at the time, that was under the assumption that further changes would be made down the line - that it was a springboard.

Revised kind of just... made armour easier without really addressing the problem with it in the first place. You still need to build to deal with armour most of the time or your build will suck, but now it's just... easier.

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16 minutes ago, Awazx said:

I was just as optimistic before PoE.

I was just as optimistic before Railjack.

even me who likes them, it would be hard for me to believe that people exist out there, that were actually satisfied with what was delivered.

 

The potential just isn't realized, regardless of what one could have gone in expecting.

 

The hype-trailers cdrtaibly don't help ... and even when DE shows a gameplay Live at Devcon, it's a completely different product ...

 

I would say that i hope DE doesn't do that in the future ... but really, what else is the marketing Team supposed to do xD?

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14 minutes ago, Doraz_ said:

even me who likes them, it would be hard for me to believe that people exist out there, that were actually satisfied with what was delivered.

Depends what you mean by satisfied. Of course, the fact I say that at all says quite a lot. But at the time it was released, I said Railjack was either the best demo I'd ever played, or one of the worst games on the market, all hinging on which one it actually was

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5 hours ago, Doraz_ said:

In the best of outcomes, it will result in the entire community having days and weeks of experimentarion and farming to figure out (hopefully) which of the new-found freedoms build-wise are more fun to use.

and the more likely outcome: people will spend the next week or so pi$$ing and moaning that their favourite melee is now "garbage" and how DE sucks and they are gonna quit Warframe for sure this time, definitely.

makes me wonder why they've delayed the workshop. perhaps there was some stuff fin it that they know might be controversial and are trying to find a new way to dress it up that doesn't sound so bad... I do like that they're gonna look at Parazon Finishers though, I just hope that they are gonna let us have Sisters of Parvos before then: as much as I want to kill the new Liches with style, I mainly just want to kill them sooner rather than later, but I understand if DE holds off to put some of these changes in the update as well.

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i'm absolutely utterly ultimately marvelously rock bottom pessimistic about any changes in warframe.

like, i face updates like an employee facing his boss after he crashes the company car, onto the boss's house. i prepare for the absolute worst.

 

i learned that's the only way to not get disappointed no matter how trash the updates are.

the more hopeful you are, the more disappointed you could possibly be.

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I wish I had your optimism. If only DE hadn't just added mods that replace crappy damage types with a low percentage to proc Slash and think that fixes bad game design. Seriously, if DE just replaced Impact and Puncture with Slash so many more weapons would be worth using and Primaries would be less bad. 

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8 minutes ago, KosmicKerman said:

I wish I had your optimism. If only DE hadn't just added mods that replace crappy damage types with a low percentage to proc Slash and think that fixes bad game design. Seriously, if DE just replaced Impact and Puncture with Slash so many more weapons would be worth using and Primaries would be less bad. 

 

1 hour ago, Voltage said:

INB4 Puncture does slash procs mod gets added.

unknown.png

yo, guys...

My idea for puncture rework was that puncture damage conpletely bypasses armor and shields.

 

They would become suddently a completely new type of weapons, that incentivizes you to drop the usual corrosive element, as they can finally deal with armor in a different way.

 

What do you think?  Fart or Fartn't?

 

Regarding impact ... I liked the idea of a status that increased the parazon chance, but it feels bad.

 

Maybe, because it's still too RNG. A possible fix is to simply enable the parazon finisher while the target has the impact status proc.

 

DE made it a requirement for the target to be low health probably to fix impact having the chance to one-shot by finiaher every enemy regardless of health missing.

 

A possible fix yet again, is to give the parazon a cooldown!

 

That way, mods for the parazon can be buffed aa we can't spam them anymore.

 

The cooldown would still be very brief like 12 seconds,  but you tennos and DE have for sure a better judgment on this ... I play the game very ... creatively 😎

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Just wait for a few days until some youtuber releases a meta setup and we’re all back to square one where everyone settled on one setup and stick with it. 

2 hours ago, Voltage said:

INB4 Puncture does slash procs mod gets added.

unknown.png

Might as well just remove IPS entirely and merge them into one damage type. The damage system is so bloated the best way to fix it is to trim it down slightly. Removing IPS and merging them into one is a good start for that. Instead of having to balance 11 damage types, DE now only needs to balance 9.

Edited by DrivaMain
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2 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

Might as well just remove IPS entirely and merge them into one damage type. The damage system is so bloated the best way to fix it to trim it down slightly. Removing IPS and merging them into one is a good start for that. Instead of having to balance 11 damage types, DE now only needs to balance 8.

Oh I totally agree. However, we both know we're taking this discussion onto the latest safari in the Void. It's pointless

Might as well make a joke about the bandaid attempts at fundamental core issues each major update after another.

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Just now, DrivaMain said:

Just wait for a few days until some youtuber releases a meta setup and we’re all back to square one where everyone settled on one setup and stick with it. 

Might as well just remove IPS entirely and merge them into one damage type. The damage system is so bloated the best way to fix it to trim it down slightly. Removing IPS and merging them into one is a good start for that. Instead of having to balance 11 damage types, DE now only needs to balance 8.

I was thinking about it, and it's attractive, but I ended up disagreeing.

 

Having 3 types of damage ( ips ) has the ability to make weapons really feel unique.

 

Both from a in-game world building perspective, as the stats themselves reflect how a weapon behaves and how it compares to others, AND for gameplay, as the effects of such a split actually translates in the enemy being afflicted by one specific element more than others.

 

Problems tho are several:

1) Warframe is fast ... too fast for letting the player experience this system, and the player might be even just farming not paying attention to the gams

2) effects are boring and non-imactful enough ... given, in the case of shield damage and to a lesser extent electric damage, it got better with the last changes

3) visual noise ... as you said, it's quite common to see am enemy with all those 12 elements combined, all with each of its visual effects and damage UI numbers.

 

It's a big mess tho ... the current system is functional, but it just isn't as engaging as the reason that made it the way it is would suggest.

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3 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

Hype culture is really ruinning every form of media. Books, movies, music, games... All ruinned by meaningless hype. Shame.

Excitement (and pessimism) weren't invented recently. This comment doesn't even make sense. If players discussing their perspective on upcoming updates ruins the content for you, you're free to just remove yourself from the Forums until it's live.

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1 minute ago, Doraz_ said:

I was thinking about it, and it's attractive, but I ended up disagreeing.

 

Having 3 types of damage ( ips ) has the ability to make weapons really feel unique.

 

Both from a in-game world building perspective, as the stats themselves reflect how a weapon behaves and how it compares to others, AND for gameplay, as the effects of such a split actually translates in the enemy being afflicted by one specific element more than others.

 

Problems tho are several:

1) Warframe is fast ... too fast for letting the player experience this system, and the player might be even just farming not paying attention to the gams

2) effects are boring and non-imactful enough ... given, in the case of shield damage and to a lesser extent electric damage, it got better with the last changes

3) visual noise ... as you said, it's quite common to see am enemy with all those 12 elements combined, all with each of its visual effects and damage UI numbers.

 

It's a big mess tho ... the current system is functional, but it just isn't as engaging as the reason that made it the way it is would suggest.

IPS is perfectly balanced early game when enemy armor is low and low MR weapons have unreliable status %. 

Before new players get a fully ranked Serration, multi-shot, Crit mods and potatoes, damage types matter. New players notice how a Boltor shreds Grineer, but tickles Corpus shields. 

But, throw in a potato, maxed Serration, multi-shot, crits and the base resistances don't even matter anymore. The obstacle to our damage that rears its head as levels rise is just armor scaling. It doesn't matter that armor modifiers double dip. Viral+Slash out-scales Corrosive and Radiation because it bypasses armor scaling. 

As armor --> Infinity, non-True Damage --> 0.

It's armor scaling that breaks the damage balance to heavily favor Bleed. If enemy armor didn't scale, Bleed would be on the same level (if not worse) than the other DOTs.

Viral would still be busted though. 

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