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Petition to remove grab bags from stream


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11 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

OP, how can you complain about something free that wasnt there at all before? You compare it to the tea set and other things. Those didnt come from the daily/weekly "community" streams, they came from the Devstreams or special streams only, or from something related to a release in the game (like the tea set).

How did 2FA lock you out of twitch?

As far as i'm concerned I just made the discussion to happen, personally, i don't like the idea of loot bags, but those are free items so hey!
But what I really don't like and one of the stronger reasons that I made this post was because I have a strong feeling that DE just started to neglect/ignore what people are saying to them and still claim that they're moved by the community's desire.

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14 hours ago, FlamingCore said:

As far as i'm concerned I just made the discussion to happen, personally, i don't like the idea of loot bags, but those are free items so hey!
But what I really don't like and one of the stronger reasons that I made this post was because I have a strong feeling that DE just started to neglect/ignore what people are saying to them and still claim that they're moved by the community's desire.

Wouldnt pointing out some examples to strengthen that idea be better than to complain about free stuff from an extrernal source?

If anything, since RJ and Liches were released DE have shown that all they do is listen and get moved by the community desire. Even if it is for the worse, like oversimplyfying things and making things so easy to obtain that it removes every point there is to grinding in a grinder game, and they've practically made RNG a non-factor in those cases with those changes.

I just dont see how grab bags have anything to do with the actual game.

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I think the grab bags are perfectly fine, with the exception of when they have "rare" drops.  Rare drops are manipulative.  If all of the drops are of roughly the same quality and desirability, having them be random is totally fine.

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16 hours ago, FlamingCore said:

As far as i'm concerned I just made the discussion to happen, personally, i don't like the idea of loot bags, but those are free items so hey!
But what I really don't like and one of the stronger reasons that I made this post was because I have a strong feeling that DE just started to neglect/ignore what people are saying to them and still claim that they're moved by the community's desire.

The "community" doesn't desire  any one thing--it's a huge group of people with different desires.  And each individual in it prioritizes what they want differently.  I guarantee you that for every person that's upset about grab bags, there are others who are happy with the way they are or really don't give a **** and would view any effort DE put into this as a waste.

So don't fool yourself that you know what the community wants--none of  us do.  All you can know is what -you- want.  And honestly, how is DE even going to know what -you- want, seeing as you made a thread that's ostensibly about one thing, but you say is actually about another.

And how is this thread going to prove to you that DE does listen?   If they get rid of grab bags, are they listening to you but ignoring others?  If they don't get rid of grab bags, are they ignoring you, or just prioritizing other things?  If they respond to you directly in this thread but nothing changes, does that mean anything?

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On 2021-06-16 at 5:42 PM, Soy77 said:

okay, first of all i'm flattered. thank you.

however, along my stay in this forum, i've learned a couple stuff. there are two reasons why i don't make new threads:

1. some people generally click on threads if they think they can massacre the OP, especially in General Discussion. you'll see people go out of their ways to type long ass replies just so they can prove someone else is wrong. people who agrees, on the other hand, would just generally drop a like and move on, people put less efforts to show support here.
funny story of mine that some other members here will definitely relate to: at one point we got our reply wildly upvoted at a random thread. so we think to ourselves, hey i bet if i make a whole thread about it, people will support the idea just like they did here! always a huge mistake. people who come, only come to disagree. people who agree, won't take their time to drop by.
people new to the forums see so many threads about ideas and suggestions from players, they see liberalism, chance to share their ideas as well. forum veterans actually read those thread's contents and realize that 8 out of 10 those threads are actually met with disagreement, so most of them simply don't waste time starting new threads.

2. yes i'm pretty critical about the streams. some of my posts on page one of every week's announcements got upvoted pretty hard by others.
so hard, at one point helen herself actually addressed most of my complaints with a long ass reply that's basically a very polite and diplomatic version of "nobody is forcing you to watch. if you don't like it then don't watch it". dissappointing, i know. what a bummer. but the reply was made publicly, and the others will continue to use that argument as their ultimate weapon.

=======================

I do like the grab bag for the time flexibility in its nature. people can pick and choose when they want to get their drops. people who want two drops can tune in early. people who get 5 drops in 3 streams can skip 1 stream on that week. etc. so grab bag actually would be PERFECT for single item drops, because no rng there, people can benefit from grab bag's flexibility, since everyone are getting the same items anyway. why they set it for selection of items instead, i have absolutely no idea and whaddaya know, nakak pearls -a single item, was actually dropped as grab bag. i watched the stream from monday to wednesday, got all 250 pearls, and i can skip thursday stream.

there are a lot of things that are wrong about warframe and at this point just impossible to fix, but i'd like to think of the stream as a small isolated content that DE can still actually do right. probably.. just probably, if they can do this one thing right, i can hold on to the hope that one day warframe could be fixed too. that's why i haven't give up on providing feedbacks about it.

in the end, feel free to do any campaign that you want. i'm just here to give you a friendly wake up call that most people here probably won't rejoice at the wonderful news that you bring.

I’m with this guy, but I want to add something different here. 
 

For those who look at the reply’s of the livestream posts, you’ll notice sometimes I’m one of the people arguing about grab bags. I wholeheartedly believe they harm their streamer base, but the issue extends to DE as a whole and their streaming culture. If you notice they almost always end their streams as soon as possible, especially when it comes to these basic community streams. I understand people like grab bags for some reason or another, but what I don’t understand is the whole “don’t like it? Don’t watch!” arguments people make. I think it’s stupid, and as I mentioned in a post a while back, a really dumb argument. No duh, guess what I did when I got what I wanted this week? I didn’t watch the streams. However, my other issue is that most of the drops are things people consider really easy to get in game. What happened to the basic decorations that cost plat only? My orbiter is full of decorations I either farmed or were gifted due to the streams. Those are some examples of good rewards. Why not put them in the grab bags? If they want to stick with them, make them useful. Or how about mods? People always need mods. While I am against RNG in any form in the streams, I can’t argue about them without acknowledging the lack of enthusiasm DE seems to have with their streams. For those who like the streams, you should have notice this by now. Posts being made pretty late (5:30-6, possibly 7 in the evening) when they used to be posted around noon last summer. If you want to talk about grab bags, you need to talk about DE’s lack of enthusiasm about their own streams.

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12 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Wouldnt pointing out some examples to strengthen that idea be better than to complain about free stuff from an extrernal source?

If anything, since RJ and Liches were released DE have shown that all they do is listen and get moved by the community desire. Even if it is for the worse, like oversimplyfying things and making things so easy to obtain that it removes every point there is to grinding in a grinder game, and they've practically made RNG a non-factor in those cases with those changes.

I just dont see how grab bags have anything to do with the actual game.

There are a lot of stuff that need patching in warframe, this post was to create a discussion on one aspect, you want railjack fixes, make your own post lol

10 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

The "community" doesn't desire  any one thing--it's a huge group of people with different desires.  And each individual in it prioritizes what they want differently.  I guarantee you that for every person that's upset about grab bags, there are others who are happy with the way they are or really don't give a **** and would view any effort DE put into this as a waste.

So don't fool yourself that you know what the community wants--none of  us do.  All you can know is what -you- want.  And honestly, how is DE even going to know what -you- want, seeing as you made a thread that's ostensibly about one thing, but you say is actually about another.

And how is this thread going to prove to you that DE does listen?   If they get rid of grab bags, are they listening to you but ignoring others?  If they don't get rid of grab bags, are they ignoring you, or just prioritizing other things?  If they respond to you directly in this thread but nothing changes, does that mean anything?

have you ever went to streams and time table posts and read actual comments before making that statement?

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12 hours ago, FlamingCore said:

There are a lot of stuff that need patching in warframe, this post was to create a discussion on one aspect, you want railjack fixes, make your own post lol

What is your post about besides complaining about free stuff from an external source? I was also not asking for RJ fixes (or fixes in general), I was highlighting that DE has listened to and implemented/changed alot based on player feedback, even things that have resulted in something worse overall.

And as you can see in your very own thread, the "community" isnt a unified thing, so who should DE listen to? For each one of you there is one who wants the grab bags just the way they are and for each one of the two of you there is a me, someone who doesnt care if the grab bags are there or not. Which one of these 3 types are right and should be listened to?

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Posted (edited)
On 2021-06-19 at 2:42 PM, SneakyErvin said:

What is your post about besides complaining about free stuff from an external source? I was also not asking for RJ fixes (or fixes in general), I was highlighting that DE has listened to and implemented/changed alot based on player feedback, even things that have resulted in something worse overall.

And as you can see in your very own thread, the "community" isnt a unified thing, so who should DE listen to? For each one of you there is one who wants the grab bags just the way they are and for each one of the two of you there is a me, someone who doesnt care if the grab bags are there or not. Which one of these 3 types are right and should be listened to?

The majority of the warframe players that are still active in warframe and watch the streams, which coincidentally are the same majority that don't like the loot bags.
You think the people who don't like it are less than the majority? Make a poll.

Edited by FlamingCore
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vor 22 Minuten schrieb FlamingCore:

The majority of the warframe players that are still active in warframe and watch the streams, which coincidentally are the same majority that don't like the loot bags.
You think the people who don't like it are less than the majority? Make a poll.

If you get to assert without evidence that the marority of players share your opinion, then so does he. If you think such assertions need to be backed by a representative poll, then that also applies to you.

Edited by Krankbert
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1 minute ago, Krankbert said:

If you get to assert without evidence that the marority of players share your opinion, then so does he.

I'v already done my research. He didn't, and i'm under no obligation to share it.

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vor 4 Minuten schrieb FlamingCore:

I'v already done my research. He didn't, and i'm under no obligation to share it.

You're free to not share this "research" and I'm free to assume that you won't share it because it doesn't exist or you know it's garbage. However, you're the one who made this thread, buddy, and I'm assuming it wasn't just because you like to hear yourself talk, so you may want to re-examine what your goal here is and re-evaluate your strategy.

Edited by Krankbert
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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

You're free to not share this "research" and I'm free to assume that you won't share it because it doesn't exist or you know it's garbage. However, you're the one who made this thread, buddy, and I'm assuming it wasn't just because you like to hear yourself talk, so you may want to re-examine what your goal here is and re-evaluate your strategy.

The goal stayed the same as it was before. 
To raise a topic and to make people discuss it.
As for your claims about my research, feel free to think whatever.

Edited by FlamingCore
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42 minutes ago, FlamingCore said:

The majority of the warframe players that are still active in warframe and watch the streams, which coincidentally are the same majority that don't like the loot bags.
You think the people who don't like it are less than the majority? Make a poll.

You have no proof that the majority of still active warframe players that watch the streams are in a majority of disliking loot bags. The burden of proof rests with you. All I've said is that the community isnt a unified thing, and that proof is here in your own very thread since we have multiple different opinions at hand here already, from -pro, against and indifferent.

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  • 3 months later...

I really despise grab bags myself. Stopped watching DE livestreams since they became the norm. In the past you simply checked the drops for the week, saw which streams had cool drops you really wanted (like the Teshin Statue,  a Shawzin you didn't have or a Warframe Articula), then you just had to watch the stream and get your drop. Simple, clean, efficient !! I was excited each week to check what drops were supposed to be there each day of the week, and would make sure not to miss any stream that had a cool deco I didn't own.

With grab bags, you usually get a vague description like "Cetus grab bag"... And you have to google what's included in said bag, and if there's anything you care about in them. Rewards in the actual grab bag are usually rather terrible (small amount of common ressources, floofs, maybe a random lens, stuff you can usually get in-game with minimal effort) , and when you do want , let's say one specific decoration item in a grab bag like a Konzu Noggle , there's no way to ensure you get it either. It's all RNG... As if we didn't have enough RNG in our gaming sessions already !

So you start watching a stream, only to get a duplicate of an item you already have 25 of. There's no duplicate protection either, so the next day, you get the same duplicate item , pissing you off even more... The Week ends, the grab bag is now gone and you simply didn't get that one item you wanted... Really sucks since you just essentially wasted a week watching streams only to miss out on the one item you really wanted to get...

So yeah, I'm no longer even bothering to pretend to care about watching a bunch of WF devs playing a game I've already played to death and I can't bring myself to play anymore since there's no content for a small % chance the drop I get is relevant to me.

Edited by (PSN)Stealth_Cobra
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1 hour ago, (PSN)Stealth_Cobra said:

I can't bring myself to play anymore

i actually liked your reply a lot until this sentence.

in my most honest personal opinion, people who already stop playing warframe should stop getting involved in warframe conversations as well. their replies will mostly be subjective opinions, and none based on current situations in the game.

but please don't take it negatively. wish you a good day, mate.

8 minutes ago, (XBOX)The Neko Otaku said:

Okay so is op mad that we get free stuff from just watching streams or mad that we aren't getting ultra exclusive rare things?

It's a dumb thing to complain about either way.

you like free stuff so much?

gimme your email i'll send you a free virus 🤣

Edited by Soy77
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15 minutes ago, Soy77 said:

i actually liked your reply a lot until this sentence.

in my most honest personal opinion, people who already stop playing warframe should stop getting involved in warframe conversations as well. their replies will mostly be subjective opinions, and none based on current situations in the game.

but please don't take it negatively. wish you a good day, mate.

you like free stuff so much?

gimme your email i'll send you a free virus.

Not my fault i'm Legendary Rank 1 with most of stuff already owned and there's been like a two months and a half worth of new content in the last two years... You can only run in circles in your orbiter for so long watching recycled events like thermia fractures , ghoul invasions, balor fomorians and having intermissions repeat over and over again before moving on to games that get regular content through out the year... But yeah, I really have very little drive to watch Rebecca do a random 20 wave defense mission on stream for a grab bag that gives me the same floof five days in a row, let's leave it at that.

If it's any consolation i still log on everyday, see there's nothing new to do , then log off... Which means i'm probably as active as 85% of the vets that still "play" this game...

Edited by (PSN)Stealth_Cobra
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32 minutes ago, (PSN)Stealth_Cobra said:

Not my fault i'm Legendary Rank 1 with most of stuff already owned and there's been like a two months and a half worth of new content in the last two years... You can only run in circles in your orbiter for so long watching recycled events like thermia fractures , ghoul invasions, balor fomorians and having intermissions repeat over and over again before moving on to games that get regular content through out the year... But yeah, I really have very little drive to watch Rebecca do a random 20 wave defense mission on stream for a grab bag that gives me the same floof five days in a row, let's leave it at that.

If it's any consolation i still log on everyday, see there's nothing new to do , then log off... Which means i'm probably as active as 85% of the vets that still "play" this game...

Could alway be a legendary 1 like me and have to start a clan from scratch cause you clan leader who hasn't played in 4 years gets on and basically destroys 4 years of work in a hour. Then you'll have plenty to do. God screw respecting the grind for hema lower the cost cause im willing to grind to get this clan to tip performance right away but im not grinding those mutagen samples i have a life now

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On 2021-06-16 at 6:53 PM, FlamingCore said:

I'm quoting @Soy77  since it applies for me too, and I want to make an official post about it (not that I looked if one exists already)
DE claims it listens to it's players, so here is your chance to shine people.

...

Even the most loyal tennos merely tolerate rng, the majority rest are hating it. why are you so persistent on keeping a feature that nobody wants? it doesn't sound like DE who values what their players wants.

I mean, most of us are adults here. If you guys signed a contract with twitch that forces you to do grab bags or whatever, then just say it. we'll definitely understand and not bother you guys again. We even got your backs covered if some kids come complaining about the rng in the future.

Just tell us, why?


Your Post title is "Petition to remove grab bags from stream" but you just ask "why ?" :

FIRST, why ? Because the Twitch's rewards are usually plats or special access to very few players ... but what abou the rest of all others ? Nothing. Grab bags may be not a good solution but it IS the LESS WORST. And some people like that ^^ but YOUR way of doing thing is like the Skepticism Doctrine : Contest everything, Propose nothing. This why nobody but trolls will hear and talk to you (An why @Soy77 stop to post thing). 🧐

[Troll Mode ON]

SECOND, I must thanks your for you post because like a friend of mine said : SALT is essential for human, and with the vast amount of your tears, I've got a week worth intake of salt, thank you it's delicious, sluuuurp. 😋

Third, I must thanks your for you post because like another friend of mine said : §everyone must laugh 15min per day ... and you make my day friend, so THANKS A LOT 🤣

[Troll Mode OFF]

To resume : If You don't like it, pass your way or propose something new. 😉

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