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Is it possible that having to leave groups manually after a match has a negative impact on the community?


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2 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

So... I am playing with someone and enjoying it, then after the mission they leave, would I still contact them? Yes, I frequently do, including when I am the person who leaves. Well, I mean I send a friend request. Lets say I do a 50 minute Kuva Survival or Apollo Disruption, and the team seems efficient and friendly, or I do a Relic Farm on Earth with new players who have lots of questions. The act of leaving a group isn't inherently negative or positive, people have different goals, objectives, time frames, etiquette, so on. A lot of people don't accept the friend request either, but thats not necessarily negative or cause for insecurity or discomfort either. It really is nothing personal. 

As a default, I think the current system works, especially since many missions are endless types, and its better to opt out, than force restarts. I understand OP, that you are giving examples, that do not necessarily reflect how you personally feel, but it feels like an oddly idiosyncratic position to defend against. The idea that some may potentially have doubts and insecurity. Could it possibly have a negative effect on the community? Possibly, or possibly the benefits outweigh the negatives as far as its affect, the... I think we are getting too abstract from this angle. Hence why I understand why some of the other users are confused by your position. Since a good way to talk about such changes, is to talk about how we personally, sincerely, actually, feel with such situations, rather than using hypothetical examples. 

Alternatively if this is more about the social dynamics of Warframe, and how conducive it is to creating tight knit groups and friendships, in the context of mission types, modes and how people play, especially compared to other games, well thats more complicated and a longer conversation, because of what I touched on earlier about people having different priorities, and goals. Ironically, though, its longer quests where groups are by default set to stay together, where I have found the most friendly people, because thats where you can familiarise yourself with others, and get more time to talk in text. 

Thank you, I really appreciate your reply, that was a nice read.

I will definitively keep in mind that using hypothetical examples and taking positions isn't the best way to start a conversation. Normally when I do this, I use a lot of body language which people get (It works well at work when talking to the boss for example. It's a way to place the boss in the workers shoe). But few gets it in text form, like you. I will make use of your tips next time and I sincerely, personally and actually mean that.

I said earlier that I agree with the current system after hearing the others stories. It seems that the current systems creates fewer but stronger bonds. And also, sure it might not work for some, but it works for people like you, and you are someone who actually wants to talk and find friends. It is probably smarter to let the system compliment that instead of people who don't want to find friends.

 

2 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

So... I am playing with someone and enjoying it, then after the mission they leave, would I still contact them? Yes, I frequently do, including when I am the person who leaves. Well, I mean I send a friend request. Lets say I do a 50 minute Kuva Survival or Apollo Disruption, and the team seems efficient and friendly, or I do a Relic Farm on Earth with new players who have lots of questions. The act of leaving a group isn't inherently negative or positive, people have different goals, objectives, time frames, etiquette, so on. A lot of people don't accept the friend request either, but thats not necessarily negative or cause for insecurity or discomfort either. It really is nothing personal. 

As a default, I think the current system works, especially since many missions are endless types, and its better to opt out, than force restarts. I understand OP, that you are giving examples, that do not necessarily reflect how you personally feel, but it feels like an oddly idiosyncratic position to defend against. The idea that some may potentially have doubts and insecurity. Could it possibly have a negative effect on the community? Possibly, or possibly the benefits outweigh the negatives as far as its affect, the... I think we are getting too abstract from this angle. Hence why I understand why some of the other users are confused by your position. Since a good way to talk about such changes, is to talk about how we personally, sincerely, actually, feel with such situations, rather than using hypothetical examples. 

Alternatively if this is more about the social dynamics of Warframe, and how conducive it is to creating tight knit groups and friendships, in the context of mission types, modes and how people play, especially compared to other games, well thats more complicated and a longer conversation, because of what I touched on earlier about people having different priorities, and goals. Ironically, though, its longer quests where groups are by default set to stay together, where I have found the most friendly people, because thats where you can familiarise yourself with others, and get more time to talk in text. 

Thank you, I really appreciate your reply, that was a nice read.

I will definitively keep in mind that using hypothetical examples and taking positions isn't the best way to start a conversation. Normally when I do this, I use a lot of body language which people get (It works well at work when talking to the boss for example. It's a way to place the boss in the workers shoe). But few gets it in text form, like you. I will make use of your tips next time and I sincerely, personally and actually mean that.

I said earlier that I agree with the current system after hearing the others stories. It seems that the current systems creates fewer but stronger bonds. And also, sure it might not work for some, but it works for people like you, and you are someone who actually wants to talk and find friends. It is probably smarter to let the system compliment that instead of people who don't want to find friends.

 

2 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

So... I am playing with someone and enjoying it, then after the mission they leave, would I still contact them? Yes, I frequently do, including when I am the person who leaves. Well, I mean I send a friend request. Lets say I do a 50 minute Kuva Survival or Apollo Disruption, and the team seems efficient and friendly, or I do a Relic Farm on Earth with new players who have lots of questions. The act of leaving a group isn't inherently negative or positive, people have different goals, objectives, time frames, etiquette, so on. A lot of people don't accept the friend request either, but thats not necessarily negative or cause for insecurity or discomfort either. It really is nothing personal. 

As a default, I think the current system works, especially since many missions are endless types, and its better to opt out, than force restarts. I understand OP, that you are giving examples, that do not necessarily reflect how you personally feel, but it feels like an oddly idiosyncratic position to defend against. The idea that some may potentially have doubts and insecurity. Could it possibly have a negative effect on the community? Possibly, or possibly the benefits outweigh the negatives as far as its affect, the... I think we are getting too abstract from this angle. Hence why I understand why some of the other users are confused by your position. Since a good way to talk about such changes, is to talk about how we personally, sincerely, actually, feel with such situations, rather than using hypothetical examples. 

Alternatively if this is more about the social dynamics of Warframe, and how conducive it is to creating tight knit groups and friendships, in the context of mission types, modes and how people play, especially compared to other games, well thats more complicated and a longer conversation, because of what I touched on earlier about people having different priorities, and goals. Ironically, though, its longer quests where groups are by default set to stay together, where I have found the most friendly people, because thats where you can familiarise yourself with others, and get more time to talk in text. 

Thank you, I really appreciate your reply, that was a nice read.

I will definitively keep in mind that using hypothetical examples and taking positions isn't the best way to start a conversation. Normally when I do this, I use a lot of body language which people get (It works well at work when talking to the boss for example. It's a way to place the boss in the workers shoe). But few gets it in text form, like you. I will make use of your tips next time and I sincerely, personally and actually mean that.

I said earlier that I agree with the current system after hearing the others stories. It seems that the current systems creates fewer but stronger bonds. And also, sure it might not work for some, but it works for people like you, and you are someone who actually wants to talk and find friends. It is probably smarter to let the system compliment that instead of people who don't want to find friends.

 

2 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

So... I am playing with someone and enjoying it, then after the mission they leave, would I still contact them? Yes, I frequently do, including when I am the person who leaves. Well, I mean I send a friend request. Lets say I do a 50 minute Kuva Survival or Apollo Disruption, and the team seems efficient and friendly, or I do a Relic Farm on Earth with new players who have lots of questions. The act of leaving a group isn't inherently negative or positive, people have different goals, objectives, time frames, etiquette, so on. A lot of people don't accept the friend request either, but thats not necessarily negative or cause for insecurity or discomfort either. It really is nothing personal. 

As a default, I think the current system works, especially since many missions are endless types, and its better to opt out, than force restarts. I understand OP, that you are giving examples, that do not necessarily reflect how you personally feel, but it feels like an oddly idiosyncratic position to defend against. The idea that some may potentially have doubts and insecurity. Could it possibly have a negative effect on the community? Possibly, or possibly the benefits outweigh the negatives as far as its affect, the... I think we are getting too abstract from this angle. Hence why I understand why some of the other users are confused by your position. Since a good way to talk about such changes, is to talk about how we personally, sincerely, actually, feel with such situations, rather than using hypothetical examples. 

Alternatively if this is more about the social dynamics of Warframe, and how conducive it is to creating tight knit groups and friendships, in the context of mission types, modes and how people play, especially compared to other games, well thats more complicated and a longer conversation, because of what I touched on earlier about people having different priorities, and goals. Ironically, though, its longer quests where groups are by default set to stay together, where I have found the most friendly people, because thats where you can familiarise yourself with others, and get more time to talk in text. 

Thank you, I really appreciate your reply, that was a nice read.

I will definitively keep in mind that using hypothetical examples and taking positions isn't the best way to start a conversation. Normally when I do this, I use a lot of body language which people get (It works well at work when talking to the boss for example. It's a way to place the boss in the workers shoe). But few gets it in text form, like you. I will make use of your tips next time and I sincerely, personally and actually mean that.

I said earlier that I agree with the current system after hearing the others stories. It seems that the current systems creates fewer but stronger bonds. And also, sure it might not work for some, but it works for people like you, and you are someone who actually wants to talk and find friends. It is probably smarter to let the system compliment that instead of people who don't want to find friends.

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1 hour ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

You’re just, wrong 🤷 

I can’t speak for your server, but I’ve been playing for a total of 4 years across PS4 and PC. In my experience the rate of talking hasn’t decreased in Oceania.

i dont remember the last time i heard someone use their mic in this game. Its been years. 

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2 hours ago, Jarl_Baalin said:

Add the comments because I got no idea what you are talking about.

In my OP, I'm explaining the question and setting it up for discussion.

Sentence #1 is an example, #2 is what I think the current system does, #3 is to deviate people from saying "its just you who are obnoxious", #4 is adding to what I think. There isn't a you problem at all here. In fact, I'm not saying there is a problem, I'm asking if I'm on to something.

You and @Tesseract7777 on the other hand have labeled me as insecure and implied that I only think with my feelings and that my supposed solution is wrong etc. when that is not the case at all. You have only bloated the whole thread with crap while I tried to discuss with the others who in fact made me think otherwise (which you still don't understand).

I mean, the "solution" is meaningless imho because people just talks to each other if they want to do it. I can't remember another thread about this, neither an in-game conversation about it, the closer to this is people wanting to have more details in "recent players" tab. 

The other paragraphs aren't worth to answer honestly.

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29 minutes ago, Jarl_Baalin said:

umh lag, sorry.

 

No worries, the internet does odd stuff with lag. 

 

I enjoyed reading your reply too, and ah yes, real life communication to written communication can definitely miss out on important context clues and nuance. I still think hypotheticals and examples are useful, just that they can by nature open up a lot of possibilities that can be hard to consider or take into account.

Like I know some people who get anxious from Spy missions and I also know some people who only like doing Spy missions solo because they don't like it when other people fail the hacking. We could float around some hypothetical ideas on some sort of system DE could implement to try and 'fix' the issue... personally I am sympathetic to those who worry about Spy missions, but I can't really think of a system DE could implement to fix what is more of a people/personality issue. They could make them easier and reduce the risk, and thus hopefully less potential for someone to be anxious, but for many Spy missions are easy enough as it is, some people will still be a bit anxious, and some people will still get annoyed if others aren't fast enough, and others will be more neutral to it all, or sympathetic to the others. We can take on the perspectives of individuals in those attitudes/mindsets, but then we might just go around in circles, devil's advocate and other such issues. I think we should value that kind of rhetoric and discussion, just sometimes its more straight forward and direct to state our personal feelings, and gauge others, and make our conclusions from that. 

Was nice talking to you, hope you have a great day! 

 

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I pub almost everything. I meet alot of folks, some are a pleasure to play with and others are... not. Those that are not friendly don't get much chatter so auto-leaving pub has no effect. Under your suggestion, those that were fun to play with would be forcefully disconnected and a friend request/hunt through recent players to find would then be required to chat with instead of just typing when the match is over.

Cons - 1
Pros - 0

I do not support auto-leaving groups at mission end ( even if we manually do it most of the time anyways. :)  )

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I support auto-leave, so I won't have to race others to press the button before someone leaves and resets the damned menu. It should obviously not cancel premade squads and anyone with a common sense should realize system like that already exists (is this really an excuse for someone against auto-leave lmao?).

Try getting friends without me having to click extra and leave me alone.

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I’ll be honest: I prefer single player games. I’m the kind of guy who will only play with randoms out of necessity and be mostly silent the whole time.

I only add friends if I know who they are, and of the two people I’ve added this way, I’m the only one that plays regularly.

From what I’ve experienced through second hand proxy, a co-op game is more likely to attract pre-established friend groups who schedule time to sit down and play together for a while. But Warframe is contradictory in this manner, as all the not-grindy stuff is locked behind single player (most quests). This does the exact opposite and attracts people like me, who would rather play by myself most of the time and hates the anxiety of trying to recruit a squad. 

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One of the defining features of Warframe is that it is a coop game that requires zero cooperation. There is next to no incentive to interact with other players to begin with. Having said that, automatically disbanding squads after every mission has to be one of the dumbest ideas I've read on these forums, and the standards are shockingly low to begin with. Chances are I would, indeed, dislike you, if that's the kind of wavelength you're usually on...

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I personally dont feel its an issue,

and it doesn't negatively impact me.

 

If however after every mission i have to go through the whole process of joining/hosting a new squad i would be annoyed.

 

So it might be affecting the OP negatively , but others including myself would oppose the "auto disband" option as it would negatively impact me.

Edited by 0_The_F00l
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15 hours ago, Jarl_Baalin said:

Am I on to something here?

if you vibed so well with a person, then send them a friend request. if they deny you, that's on them, you did what you could.

generally speaking though, Public games are more about using other people to your own ends - not in an evil way, but more of an apathetic way - because you and the others are only there in public to get the mission done and out of the way, then leave. sometimes all you need is a few other meat shields to make the mission run a little faster, assuming of course that you are matched with people that know what they're doing, which isn't always the case. when you do get a decent squad though, everyone silently agrees to run the mission, then leave. no sense in talking to others because they're gonna leave soon anyway (but some may just genuinely not want to talk for other reasons, e.g. social anxiety)

point is, you shouldn't take it personally when a mission ends and everybody leaves, you're only ever PUGging to try and get things done faster, and other people know this too. 

 

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Manual leave has little to do with it. The nature of Warframe is why people sit with short friends lists most likely since there is near zero need for other players in the game. In WoW and other MMOs the reason my friends lists had people on them was because I actually needed people to group with on a constant basis due to the content setup of those games. Crafting/trading in those games was also a reason why I had people on my friends lists, since I tended to lend my services to others in return for theirs.

Then look at WF, Diablo 3, PoE, Marvel Heroes etc. Squat need for friends, so no reason to add them unless you are super social and just need to have people to chat with on a regular basis.

 

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I'd be happy if Random groups disbanded immediately after each mission, but if you pre-made a group (invited/joined a pre-set before a mission), those members would stick together.

I often find myself playing with either 1 or 2 friends only, and we pick up a random 1 or 2 people... but have to disband and reform after each mission to move on quickly.

I don't "meet" new friends in online games, I only play with people I already know (or, ideally, solo)

 

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The one thing I wished warframe did like anthem was how grouping worked.  I would join a group with my friend. We would go on a mission, get paired with 2 random people, then after the mission the 2 of us would be in the group again, with no random people. Same for solo, of course. 

If we can't have that, I've long wanted a "decline host migrations" option. Especially for after leaving a mission, it's so annoying to see the "host migration" pop-up and rush to click cancel .. if you're too slow, maybe you get another one! yay!  If my host leaves when I'm the orbiter .. really .. I just want to be left alone. 

Of course, I really want "decline host migrations" in missions too .. and "always extract with host" .. but this is a good starting point. 

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Is it possible that having to leave groups manually after a match has a negative impact on the community?

I think we'd be doing a disservice to try to make this an individual problem, rather than thinking about it as a design issue that exists on the border of UX and group psychology.  And honestly, this is an incredibly interesting topic!

Because as a collective, Warframe players have for the most part learned that when a mission ends, you generally disband (barring certain circumstances).  This is just what happens, and nobody explains the reason, but other players learn that behavior and repeat it.  And that behavior likely started in response to the design of the game, perhaps in ways that were both intended and unintended.

For example, if the host leaves, the whole group disbands; this is different than in many other games that aren't host-driven, where even if the "leader" of a group leaves, everyone else stays in the group.  So in Warframe, if just one member of the group wants to leave, everyone disbands.  That functionality means that a full group disband happens significantly more often than in other games.  And that in turn means that it becomes further normalized that after a mission, groups disband.

Another likely contributing factor is that if you stay in a squad, all it takes is one member of that squad to force start a mission without your consent.  From the moment you notice they've done that, you may have roughly 5 seconds to react and disband, and depending on what kind of menu you're already in or how delayed you are in noticing that this has happened, you may miss the window and end up in a mission you didn't want to be in.  I'm guessing that many players proactively disband just so that they don't have to worry about this happening.  And that further normalizes disbanding.

And in general, because there are hundreds of different goals and missions each player might want to engage in, it's unlikely that match-made players will want to stay together because after one mission they'll all likely want to move on to their next goal, which is unlikely to be the same thing.  If a group wants to just farm the same mission over and over, sure, they might stay together.  But if even one of those members wants to do something different, and if that person is the host, then the group is getting wiped and you're starting fresh with a new group.

So those are at least some of the reasons why people generally do disband, now the question is: is this design a problem?  Would it be better to change this so that the community default becomes hard-coded as what always happens?

Personally, I don't think so.  With this system, there's certainly a norm of disbanding, but there are also exceptions to that norm.  Changing would remove the potential to have those exceptions, which have value.  The simple concept of wanting to keep playing with the same squad would become even more arduous to maintain than it already is, and that doesn't seem like it's in anyone's best interest.

However, perhaps there are other things we would want to change that would decrease the prevalence of disbanding after a mission, which might help to normalize stronger bonds between players, or at least more sustained play sessions.  But naturally forcing a disband would run counter to this.

On 2021-06-16 at 12:22 PM, Jarl_Baalin said:

An example would be that you are playing with someone and you are enjoying it because they seem to be like minded. But then after the match, they just leave. Are you likely to contact this person if they just left you?

To address the concern that lead to this conversation, your train of thought makes perfect sense!  If someone left you, it's natural to wonder if they might have left because they wanted nothing more to do with you.  But you should make a point to remember that disbanding after a mission is normal in Warframe.  Generally speaking, it is not personal; it is an instinctive action that protects a player from being sucked into a mission they don't want to go to, or allows them to go into a mission they do want to go to without inconveniencing other players who might not.  In many cases, a host disbanding removes the entire party, so a player leaving may just mean they weren't the host.  It's just so unlikely that it has anything to do with you.

So with that in mind, if you want to play more with a player, send them a message, ask if it's cool if you friend them so you can play later.  Whatever you say, you've got your answer. :)

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Wish there was an OPTION to auto-leave when doing random public matches. Especially with the new End-of-Mission screen that has zero transparency and fills the whole screen and the horrible Host Migration system that occurs post-game.

I generally just am moving from one thing to the next and never really type things into the chat unless it's a "gg". 90% of the time, not even really thinking of the other players besides making sure the match goes smoothly and reviving when needed.

As for voice chat in the game, I have that 100% disabled.

 

Edited by Sean
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I never really thought of it in this context. I leave after most missions not because I didn't like the person or that they were too slow. It's almost never anything personal. It's simply a matter of trying to blitz through as much content as I possibly can due to the rng nature of the game. Often I'll be jumping between mission types to land at many different farming angles as I can within the time I have so that this way I'll progress somewhere if rng permits. So because of this I'll leave after a public mission since I'll likely be trying something else, be it a new loadout, build needing tweaks, a new mission altogether, or maybe I simply didn't like how the colors my new fashionframe looked out on the field. Rarely it has ever been as a result of the other player being annoying or bad.

Although, I do stick around if there is a like-minded goal between myself and the random group. This usually happens if conversations occur and we all find out - hey, we all want the same thing why not stick together? I've had plenty of good mission runs with this occurring. So I guess in a way I can see where you're coming from. Once again though, it's not likely a personal thing - most of the time anyway.

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All of this because OP got insecure. Hilarious.

Please don't break down in a sweat when I never post here again.
It's nothing personal, I just don't like you.

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