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Vox Solaris, Something has to give, DE.


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The fact that it takes possibly weeks or months for a casual new or returning player to first max out Solaris United in order to grind Vox Solaris bounties, or that you have to grind for an insanely low drop-rate turn-in item that you just so happen to also need as a rank up item, needs to be dealt with.

When the game gets to the point that not logging into it for a day and grinding out my rep with a faction to the fullest amount makes me feel as though I'm falling behind, we have a problem.

This isn't fun, the grind is making it not fun, and after returning for around a month or so, I'm already almost over the game. It doesn't feel like a game anymore, it feels like a job, and I'm not the type to spend money at the place I work if you get my drift. This game has strayed far away from appealing to those with lives outside of the game.

Timegating is not fun.
Grind is not fun.

Repeatedly having to do fishing, mining, or mindlessly repeating the same bounties ad nauseum makes me want to uninstall and find something else to invest my time, and money, into.

What happened to DE? Are they turning into Joymax and did they play too much Silkroad Online in the last few years since I stopped playing?

 

TLDR: You have to grind to unlock a grind to grind some more, all for some parts that are becoming more often used to craft items.

Note: coupled with all the other myriad grinds, this game is more than daunting for most new players, I can't even imagine trying to grind out frames needing drops like Nitain (more like Pain) Extract, resources only obtained via reputations, and extremely low drop rates on certain crafting items.

Edited by NeoBahamut19
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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, -SicMundusCreatusEst- said:

Considering this game is based on those 2 words, you might want to think if you want to play this game

You and I both know that wasn't the original direction of this game and it wasn't nearly as bad several years ago before they started with the open world stuff.

Also, if your solution is "go play something else", I may (as any smart player would), just go ahead and take you up on that recommendation and spend my money elsewhere. Something I'm sure DE would absolutely love.

Edited by NeoBahamut19
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Grinding definitely has always been a part of this game.

And syndicates are only minor time gates, especially if you've invested in getting higher mastery ranks.

Not that I enjoy/like the time-gates, especially the Eidolon time-gate and others.

 

That said, if you trouble to max-out/fill your daily standing, do some research, there are ways to boost your standing to your daily cap with a little help from another friendly player. The higher level creatures you hunt in OV can give up to 8k standing per capture.

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3 hours ago, NeoBahamut19 said:

You and I both know that wasn't the original direction of this game and it wasn't nearly as bad several years ago before they started with the open world stuff.

Yeah, I guess most of stuffs weren't that extreme. Only things like Aphothics + rare mods might be "annnoying".

3 hours ago, NeoBahamut19 said:

This isn't fun, the grind is making it not fun, and after returning for around a month or so, I'm already almost over the game. It doesn't feel like a game anymore, it feels like a job, and I'm not the type to spend money at the place I work if you get my drift. This game has strayed far away from appealing to those with lives outside of the game.

Ok, but what have you tried? Since I maxed this they introduced another way to earn standing. Methods:

- granum coins 100/200/500 afair

- buying Debtbonds from Ticker - doesn't require to play a game if you have resources, you can even use non Fortuna resources

- missions/bounties

 

I'm not sure about Ticker (last Wing event, Ticker haven't got any higher bonds) but with high MR it wasn't hard.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, quxier said:

Yeah, I guess most of stuffs weren't that extreme. Only things like Aphothics + rare mods might be "annnoying".

Ok, but what have you tried? Since I maxed this they introduced another way to earn standing. Methods:

- granum coins 100/200/500 afair

- buying Debtbonds from Ticker - doesn't require to play a game if you have resources, you can even use non Fortuna resources

- missions/bounties

 

I'm not sure about Ticker (last Wing event, Ticker haven't got any higher bonds) but with high MR it wasn't hard.

Buying Debt-Bonds? Really? With all the other resource sinks they've put in "for vets" who "have resources to spare"?

Missions/Bounties? Did you not read my post? It's clear you didn't.

Granum Coins (Crowns)? That's a tri-purpose token, so you're asking new and returning players to spend something they may be saving up for one of the other things (most likely the Void) for a piddly amount of reputation that is likely easier earned by doing one of the menial, half A'd chores like fishing, mining, or hunting.

Warframe? More like WoWframe.

I've tried every method so far and all of them came off as not only tedious, but wholly unenjoyable. Of all the reps I've been working on, Venus has had the absolute worst and least fun. Whereas Necralisk requires Rank 3 with Entrati to max it out, you can start grinding the rep tokens via Bounties almost immediately upon completing the Heart of Deimos questline, having to only do each rank of the Isolation Vaults once up through rank 3. After that you can dual-grind both the Necralisk turn-ins and the Entrati turn-ins.

Compare that to Solaris United and Vox Solaris, you're lucky if a Vox turn-in drops in the higher tiers of Solaris United stuff and what does drop only goes for about 1K rep.

It's clear with the release of Deimos that they understood how bad the rep grind on Venus was, yet Digital Extremes has REFUSED to go back and adjust it appropriately and make it at least equal to, or less grindy than, Deimos (the newer content).

Someone, or a group of people, are either willfully ignorant or sleeping at the wheel on this.

Edited by NeoBahamut19
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3 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

DE already gave lower MRs more daily standing. And the vox Solaris/United grind gives access to very late game items so a few weeks seems reasonable to attain those items.

"very late game items", as of when? Hildryn, the newest Venus frame, came out in March of 2019. It's now June 2021, more than 2 years later.

Also, "a few weeks" is not reasonable for a grind, especially if someone wants to play casually and do other stuff with their friends besides grind every day for the entirety of the free time they have available to game. Most of the people I know have either quit or refused to play Warframe strictly because of how unfriendly it is to their schedules.

Just because a game is F2P doesn't mean it doesn't have to compete with other non-F2P games in terms of access.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, (XBOX)Skippy575 said:

The amp parts, not the frames. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but those parts dropped around the same timefame as the frames did. Checking patch notes, they're all from 2018/2019. My point still stands. It's been over 2 years, Deimos is far less of a cumbersome wall of a grind for BOTH Entrati and Necraloid (referred to mistakenly by me as Necralisk earlier).

There's zero reason at this point to not retroactively change the Venus reps to a similar system to what's going on with Deimos to make it more consistent. I'm a Rank 4 with Solaris United, yet I STILL cannot do the Vox Solaris bounties. Why? You cannot offer a good reason why after weeks of grinding reps and getting to Rank 4 with SU that I can't do VS bounties.

Of all the bounties in the game, SU/VS are by far the worst ones due to rarity of turn-ins and the requirement to complete one to unlock bounties for the other.

DE needs to wake up.

Edited by NeoBahamut19
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23 minutes ago, NeoBahamut19 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but those parts dropped around the same timefame as the frames did. Checking patch notes, they're all from 2018/2019. My point still stands. It's been over 2 years, Deimos is far less of a cumbersome wall of a grind for BOTH Entrati and Necraloid (referred to mistakenly by me as Necralisk earlier).

There's zero reason at this point to not retroactively change the Venus reps to a similar system to what's going on with Deimos to make it more consistent. I'm a Rank 4 with Solaris United, yet I STILL cannot do the Vox Solaris bounties. Why? You cannot offer a good reason why after weeks of grinding reps and getting to Rank 4 with SU that I can't do VS bounties.

Of all the bounties in the game, SU/VS are by far the worst ones due to rarity of turn-ins and the requirement to complete one to unlock bounties for the other.

DE needs to wake up.

You don't need 'the bounties' to farm in advance for Vox rep. Exploiter can be dipped into any time so long as you have some Thermia in your pocket.

 

Maxing out daily standing for Solaris U takes maybe 15 minutes via Kubrodon hunting, without pheromone investments. Granted you don't have those from the start unless you have a buddy who can call, but conservation is still easy enough. Pobbers spawning in packs of 3 make a good baseline - 1200 per hunt compared to 2000 per hunt by common spawn only.

I don't know the exact progression, but standing is incredibly weighted toward earlier MR nowadays. Per Gara Prime's release patch notes:

Quote

In addition to giving more room for Tenno to get to that final rank with their Syndicates, this will ultimately help reduce the time new players spend ranking up with their chosen Syndicates. Previously, if you were Mastery Rank 10, you would have a daily Standing cap of 16,000. Now, with the changes we’ve made, your daily Standing cap for MR 10 is 21,000.

If an MR10 now has the daily cap of an MR20 from launch, your progression rate has already been magnified.

Or, if you're close to max, let's say 30,000 daily standing, it takes all of 13 days of effort to completely clear the whole thing.

13 days of 15 minutes (*2 to accommodate early pobber-only hunts) = 6.5 hours total active time.

 

This is a you problem.

You need to wake up.

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5 hours ago, NeoBahamut19 said:

"very late game items", as of when? Hildryn, the newest Venus frame, came out in March of 2019. It's now June 2021, more than 2 years later.

Also, "a few weeks" is not reasonable for a grind, especially if someone wants to play casually and do other stuff with their friends besides grind every day for the entirety of the free time they have available to game. Most of the people I know have either quit or refused to play Warframe strictly because of how unfriendly it is to their schedules.

Just because a game is F2P doesn't mean it doesn't have to compete with other non-F2P games in terms of access.

Online games have made massive progression lowering grinds over time. Warframe is really casual and easy for people that used to actually grind in games. There's no 4 hour raids....or having to play and compete with literal foreign gold sellers etc. 

Warframe just has you run a few bounties a day. Yea, some people lose control and spam them and get frustrated, but there are many people that avoided it and now are rushing because there's some specific item they want.

If you chip away at it casually you'll have everything sooner than you think, and probably will forget about it afterwards for the rest of your playtime.

Edit: also, Nitain is really easy to get....

Edited by (PSN)Madurai-Prime
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7 hours ago, NeoBahamut19 said:

Buying Debt-Bonds? Really? With all the other resource sinks they've put in "for vets" who "have resources to spare"?

What resource sinks? Helminth? If you are subsuming/infusing all the time OR/AND for all frames then you will be broke in no time. However if you are just using it from time to time for your favorite frames then you are safe.

7 hours ago, NeoBahamut19 said:

Missions/Bounties? Did you not read my post? It's clear you didn't.

I don't mean it "do only bounties". I bet if you are going to only do bounties then you will get fed up (I've done a lot of Deimos' one). However it's one of the option.

7 hours ago, NeoBahamut19 said:

Granum Coins (Crowns)? That's a tri-purpose token, so you're asking new and returning players to spend something they may be saving up for one of the other things (most likely the Void) for a piddly amount of reputation that is likely easier earned by doing one of the menial, half A'd chores like fishing, mining, or hunting.

Suuuure, they might introduce "buy Sister for a Coin".

And you may farm those few things.

I bought them so I don't have to do Granum Void.

Still, it's an option.

7 hours ago, NeoBahamut19 said:

Warframe? More like WoWframe.

?

7 hours ago, NeoBahamut19 said:

I've tried every method so far and all of them came off as not only tedious, but wholly unenjoyable. Of all the reps I've been working on, Venus has had the absolute worst and least fun. Whereas Necralisk requires Rank 3 with Entrati to max it out, you can start grinding the rep tokens via Bounties almost immediately upon completing the Heart of Deimos questline, having to only do each rank of the Isolation Vaults once up through rank 3. After that you can dual-grind both the Necralisk turn-ins and the Entrati turn-ins.

For me they are the same, even worse. With Fortuna I can change stuffs (Ticker) that I already have, not necessary from Fortuna. With Deimos I had to do stuffs in Deimos to earn Family Tokens.

As for bounties I found Deimos one easier but more boring. I've been doing endless Excavations. Fortuna one required me to do many different missions.

7 hours ago, NeoBahamut19 said:

Compare that to Solaris United and Vox Solaris, you're lucky if a Vox turn-in drops in the higher tiers of Solaris United stuff and what does drop only goes for about 1K rep.

I don't do Vox (nor Mech-thingy) so... I cannot say a thing about it.

7 hours ago, NeoBahamut19 said:

It's clear with the release of Deimos that they understood how bad the rep grind on Venus was, yet Digital Extremes has REFUSED to go back and adjust it appropriately and make it at least equal to, or less grindy than, Deimos (the newer content).

Someone, or a group of people, are either willfully ignorant or sleeping at the wheel on this.

From my perspective neither Deimos nor Fortuna is MUCH grindier.

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On 2021-06-17 at 12:38 AM, Quimoth said:

And syndicates are only minor time gates, especially if you've invested in getting higher mastery ranks.

Yes that's true....

But the problem is The Syndicates in Fortuna are far outside the scope of what would be acceptable time gates in this game....

Simply Comparing Vox Solaris to all the others and you will see the problem.

 

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On 2021-06-16 at 5:27 PM, NeoBahamut19 said:

The fact that it takes possibly weeks or months for a casual new or returning player to first max out Solaris United in order to grind Vox Solaris bounties, or that you have to grind for an insanely low drop-rate turn-in item that you just so happen to also need as a rank up item, needs to be dealt with.

Is this a bad thing? IDK of course but some people don't want a short 10-hour game and would like something that can actually last to make sure you don't run out of things to do for some time, and the longer the better. If you find some part tedious, just ignore it. There are other parts that maybe more to your liking. Maybe, you'll come back to this part and find it fun later on. IMHO, WF is a very long game that may take, lets say, 1000+ hours to dip your toes into everything it has. So, might as well enjoy and take it easy. It is not going anywhere after all, and the new content will still be available. Moreover, new content is usually glitchy at launch, and you might be better off waiting for a few patches to fix the major problems. If you don't generally like Fortuna gameplay-wise, you probably won't like the Sisters as well and then can safely ignore the whole thing.

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@LutesqueEnlighten me.

I did not find the SU and Vox that tedious to level. Unless you try to lvl vox without doing bosses. (exploiter is an ez 6k * resource boosters per kill)

I personally find the quills a lot more painful to level up because i hate tridolons and their stupid night only mechanic which makes me want to destroy my face on a wall.

 

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2 hours ago, Quimoth said:

I personally find the quills a lot more painful to level up because i hate tridolons and their stupid night only mechanic which makes me want to destroy my face on a wall.

Food for thought:
1 Brill-shard + handful of Exceptional cores from Ropalolyst kills
1 Rad-shard + handful of Flawless cores from SP Ropalolyst kills?

(Although the SP ropalo is so much more horrendous, that's probably not even worth the time increase)

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10 hours ago, Quimoth said:

@LutesqueEnlighten me.

Seriously ? 😐

10 hours ago, Quimoth said:

 

I did not find the SU and Vox that tedious to level. Unless you try to lvl vox without doing bosses. (exploiter is an ez 6k * resource boosters per kill)

Then you must have gotten lucky with the Atmo System Farm....

10 hours ago, Quimoth said:

 

I personally find the quills a lot more painful to level up because i hate tridolons and their stupid night only mechanic which makes me want to destroy my face on a wall.

You do ?

Maybe it's because my initial desire to do those Hunts was because I needed Focus and thus the end result was by the time I had enough to complete a single School I had already more Sentient Cores than I could ever spend....

To achieve the same feat with Vox Solaris you would need a Community Booster Stacking with a Personal Booster which also stacks with the Event Booster..... The first two aren't that big of a deal for some players but that last one is essentially non-existant these days.....

 

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The Vox Solaris grind is without doubt the worst of any of the syndicates open-world or otherwise. Too much fiddly parts locked behind annoying un-engaging bounties which are in turn locked behind the time/resource/standing gate of another syndicate (SU).

At least DE seemed to learn from their mistakes with Necraloid syndicate.

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