Jump to content

Can these long reoccurring bugs please be fixed.


Recommended Posts

Can we please fix not being able to use abilities, guns or any equipment being soft locked when we are in an eidolon hunt, it has happened to me and many other players. The only fix being not being revived and self reviving again. This has been in the game for ages. 

Thank you for reading :) 

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

NO!

 

just kidding. if you encountered some bugs, report them in bugs section.
provide as much details as you can preferably with evidence to help them figuring out the problem.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ill try to post it there, although I haven't really focused on how to create the bug, so i'm not sure how it happens for it to be nicely detailed in the bug section. Was wondering if anyone else has figured out how it happens. Thank you for the feedback. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

makes me laugh when DE's response to a bug report is "sorry, we couldn't recreate it!" like bruh, if it's happened 100 times consistently, to multiple players, then the problem is with YOU trying to recreate it and failing. this is what the Test Cluster should be used for when not testing new stuff: recreating conditions to lure out bugs to help DE figure out why they happen and get them patched. sadly, DE never seems to want to use all the resources at their disposal *cough* Design Council *cough*.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, Jamese505 said:

Can these long reoccurring bugs please be fixed.

Ofcourse they can.... But.... You know..... They won't... 😈 !!!

13 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Probably not a thing that is really fixable because it is mostly related to latency between the host and the clients. It happens at time elsewhere aswell when the host is poop.

I firmly Disagree with this logic because you can very easily fix the bug by not running any and all Features that don't have anything to do with online Functionality through the Host Machine....

Or to put it simply: CLIENT SIDE TRANSFERENCE....

This bug never occurs when you play alone or if you're the host because the game is no longer waiting to get permission just so you can use Transference.... A feature that makes no sense for it not to work Client Side.... The same applies to some Warframe Abilities and Gear Items....

Yes... Apparently Some Warframe Abilities Work Client Side while others do not.... And yes.... This can happen to a single Warframe....  Mirage being the easy example....

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, Jamese505 said:

Ill try to post it there, although I haven't really focused on how to create the bug, so i'm not sure how it happens for it to be nicely detailed in the bug section. Was wondering if anyone else has figured out how it happens. Thank you for the feedback. 

This is an ancient bug that’s been reported many times. Generally what triggers it is having high ping while in an Eidolon hunting squad, and I think it’s something to do with how much is going on, and magnetic procs. Because when it’s happened to me, trying to do just about anything makes the magnetic proc sound.

 

Wanting to discuss a bug in general that’s already been reported hundreds of times is fine, as far as I’m concerned.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Lutesque said:

I firmly Disagree with this logic because you can very easily fix the bug by not running any and all Features that don't have anything to do with online Functionality through the Host Machine....

Or to put it simply: CLIENT SIDE TRANSFERENCE....

This bug never occurs when you play alone or if you're the host because the game is no longer waiting to get permission just so you can use Transference.... A feature that makes no sense for it not to work Client Side.... The same applies to some Warframe Abilities and Gear Items....

Yes... Apparently Some Warframe Abilities Work Client Side while others do not.... And yes.... This can happen to a single Warframe....  Mirage being the easy example....

 

How can you disagree with the logic and then go on and explain exactly why the logic is sound?

They simply cannot fix it since it is rooted in the PtP and Listen Server system of multiplayer. They can make it slightly better, which they've done in the past to other things that were screwed up due to host/client latency, like doors not opening as they should. A fix they did specifically to help Titania in indoor environments when client. But anything that effects the whole mission needs to go through the host since it impacts every player there, not just the client producing said effect.

The only thing that could possibly work with client side only are strict self buffs, since they just alter the outgoing data from clients on future actions. But anything that has a chance to interact with NPCs or players of the mission need to go through the host to register properly. Which covers transference etc. due to all underlying effects within that system that alters and interacts with mobs and other players. Otherwise you'd remove the functionality of Zenurik energy dash or Naramon opening up enemies to finishers. You'd also pretty much remove the possibility for players to interact with their operator versus Stalker, since you would only be in operator mode according to the client side, not according to the host since transference would happen client side as you wish for.

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

How can you disagree with the logic and then go on and explain exactly why the logic is sound?

Because Logic Is Such a Liar.... Atleast that's what Max Payne would say.... 😛

8 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

They simply cannot fix it since it is rooted in the PtP and Listen Server system of multiplayer. They can make it slightly better, which they've done in the past to other things that were screwed up due to host/client latency, like doors not opening as they should. A fix they did specifically to help Titania in indoor environments when client. But anything that effects the whole mission needs to go through the host since it impacts every player there, not just the client producing said effect.

The issue here is that The DE thinks the Host needs to control these Interactions and that's just A lazy way to program the net code....  The Host merely needs to know about what the clients are doing.... It definitely should not be the Sole Arbiter of whether or not they should be able to do things at all....

In the case of Transference.... If the Client Transfers Out Of their Warframe.... The Host merely needs to know this Interaction has Occurred.... NOT TO PREVENT THE INTERACTION FROM HAPPENING UNTIL IT FEELS LIKE IT..... 

Essentially what this Does is it changes the type of Bug that this Interaction would Trigger..... Instead of locking Three Clients out of all control it just causes more Teleporting from the Host's perspective. And that's if DE does it in the crappy way we expect them to do it.... If they actually do it properly then since Less Data needs to be sent inbetween the Machines then all Latency Related Issues including the Excessive Teleporting would be less severe since less of the game is running via the Fragile Network.

8 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

 

The only thing that could possibly work with client side only are strict self buffs, since they just alter the outgoing data from clients on future actions.

Not at all.... Just about everything could work Client Side.... In the case of Team Buffs whoever initiated the Buff would have it activate instantly on them and the rest of the team will get that buff whenever the data finally Arrives on their Machines....

The way it works now is if a Client Activates a buff then Literally nobody gets the buff until the Host Says it's okay.... 

It's better for 3 Players to get it late rather than for all 4 Players to get it late because DE is using "Mother May I ?" Netcode.

8 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

But anything that has a chance to interact with NPCs or players of the mission need to go through the host to register properly. Which covers transference etc.

It definitely doesn't cover Transference....  9 Times out Of 10 most people use Transference for their Own Benefit. This is why it's especially annoying when the Effect is Delayed.... Because most players don't see the connection between what Spamming Magus Elevate has to do with The Host.... Hosts don't benefit from Elevate so they shouldn't be getting in the way of your Ability to Spam it....

If you want an example of An Interaction that actually does matter then things like Loki's Switch Teleport are a better example. Since this is genuine two way Physical Interaction there's no way to handle it from a single side.... But At the same time Warframe doesn't have to Many Of these types of Interactions.... 

LoL... Like think about how Ridiculous the way It works now.... Self Stagger is another one of those things that requires Permission from the Host Machine.... WHY

Why does the game need to ask permission from the Host before I can Stagger Myself.... ? The Self Stagger literally doesn't affect anybody but yourself.... It's literally in the name... And yet if there's a delay in the connection you won't get knock down by your Own AoE for a full 2 Seconds in the most Extreme Cases..... This is not an interaction that needs to be Controlled by The Host Machine.... Yes the Host Needs to know about the interaction... But it definitely should not be in Control of it... The same applies to Transference ...

That's the level Laziness we're dealing with here when it comes to DE.... They can't even be bothered to remove this Interaction from the Connection....  This is a precious waste of Network Real Estate (I literally just made that up 😝) ....

I wonder how many Developers do this these days.... This isn't something that devs did alot back then simply because the 7th Gen consoles wouldn't let them.... The PS3 & 360's networking capabilities were more "Humble" back then compared to PCs so they had to clean up unnecessary Interactions from the Network Traffic....

But I feel these days a sizeable chunk of Developers are placing way to much faith on the Ubiquity of Internet and leave Unnecessary Interactions in the Netcode Purely out of laziness and DE happens to be one of them.... Which is Strange given how old Warframe is.... Meaning they were programming it badly even back when it was less Okay to do so..... 

9 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Otherwise you'd remove the functionality of Zenurik energy dash or Naramon opening up enemies to finishers.

No you wouldn't....

If Transference worked Client Side then those Effects would simply occur late on their End.... They wouldn't be none functional at all.... If Anything it's because of the way it works right now that's Causing first Attempts at Energizing Dash occasionally not leaving behind Energy Bubbles.... A little lag and Suddenly nobody gets to benefit from Energizing Dash.... It would actually better if a client Side bug caused only team mates not to get the Buff since atleast the one who Initiated the Interaction wouldn't be getting Screwed over....

9 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

. You'd also pretty much remove the possibility for players to interact with their operator versus Stalker, since you would only be in operator mode according to the client side, not according to the host since transference would happen client side as you wish for.

Right.... Because we absolutely love the Stalker 🤔

Trust me.... I won't miss any Interactions that would be lost because of him.... He's not a deal breaker.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Il y a 6 heures, Lutesque a dit :

LoL... Like think about how Ridiculous the way It works now.... Self Stagger is another one of those things that requires Permission from the Host Machine.... WHY ?ot a deal breaker.

The game state, including what you are actually doing is the responsability of the host, so yes in practice everything requires permission from the host. There are some workarounds on some actions that do not look like that because your client simulates that the host has the info so it looks smooth, it is why in some content and due to poor coding, you get hardlock in a transference or stuff doing nothing because some packets have been lost or corrupted and your state gets bugged out on the host side and no failsafe have been implemented for this particular exception. And it is also why there are often pretty noticeable delays in transference in and out when you are not hosting.

And about resources and stuffs gained in missions, it is the responsability of the host as well and it is mainly sent at the end of the mission, I'm pretty sure it has been cracked by some players btw but it's a completly different topic.

In terms of architecture it is clunky as hell and limits the game a lot, it was very smart early on for the game, obviously it got cringier and cringier over time and there are no easy fix for that. It would require a profound work on lots of thing and obviously it would have infrastructures costs as well, yes the servers can be hosted on clouds but it is harder than it looks as well.

Edited by Galuf
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Right.... Because we absolutely love the Stalker 🤔

Trust me.... I won't miss any Interactions that would be lost because of him.... He's not a deal breaker.

 

There is more to it than Stalker, since we have several other things aswell where operator interaction would turn out the same. Nothing would really be improved since you'd still abide to a laggy host in the end for you to be able to deal with enemies. You'd possibly solve getting stuck in transference etc. But you'd still sit there with all the issues of hit reg and so on no matter what they change. Also the more power you give to the client, the more you open up regarding hacking and such.

And it would be pointless to change anything if they cant solve it all. Because currently we have a solution, you simply leave high latency missions and re-queue for a new one. Something I'd keep doing even if I could suddenly transfer in and out of my operator, since I wouldnt want to put up with missing hit reg anyways.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Galuf said:

 

In terms of architecture it is clunky as hell and limits the game a lot, it was very smart early on for the game, obviously it got cringier and cringier over time and there are no easy fix for that. It would require a profound work on lots of thing and obviously it would have infrastructures costs as well, yes the servers can be hosted on clouds but it is harder than it looks as well.

Well yeah... I'm well aware this Definitely one of those things there's no easy fix for... Especially since they've continue to Build and Build on this problem for years now.

But I'm almost certain that out of all the Difficult Things DE has to fix... This one is probably the most Valuable out of all of them. 

I mean... Am I wrong ? Would it not be worth that effort ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

There is more to it than Stalker, since we have several other things aswell where operator interaction would turn out the same. Nothing would really be improved since you'd still abide to a laggy host in the end for you to be able to deal with enemies. You'd possibly solve getting stuck in transference etc. But you'd still sit there with all the issues of hit reg and so on no matter what they change. Also the more power you give to the client, the more you open up regarding hacking and such.

Well they can't fix everything.... That much is clear... But still the more things they can alleviate from the network... The less severe remaining problems will be....

As for my experience Specifically... I've been in situations that were so Laggy the Doors wouldn't open... But My Abilities and Weapon attacks still Registered Quite Responsively....  Warframe is funny like that 😝 !!!

10 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And it would be pointless to change anything if they cant solve it all.

I disagree.... 

Ofcourse they can't solve it all... No developer has as far as I know... But is it pointless ? 

Nope.... I don't think it is....

10 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Because currently we have a solution, you simply leave high latency missions and re-queue for a new one.

That's not really a Solution.... 😐

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah this one sucks. I dunno if they'll ever fix it, but if you get it in mission there's a couple of things you can do:

- If possible, enter your k-drive and leave it. Usually fixes it.

- If possible, and k-drive didn't fix it, enter your archwing and leave it. Usually fixes it if K-drive caused the bug in the first place.

- Still doesn't work (or you're not in open world), only fix I've found is to die and manually revive. Getting revived by other players won't help. Dying is surprisingly hard in this game, you might need a few minutes. Enemies will also take their aggro elsewhere since you can't attack them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2021-06-17 at 4:42 AM, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

makes me laugh when DE's response to a bug report is "sorry, we couldn't recreate it!" like bruh, if it's happened 100 times consistently, to multiple players, then the problem is with YOU trying to recreate it and failing. this is what the Test Cluster should be used for when not testing new stuff: recreating conditions to lure out bugs to help DE figure out why they happen and get them patched. sadly, DE never seems to want to use all the resources at their disposal *cough* Design Council *cough*.

Yes but what do you expect them to tell you if they can't actually recreate the problem? We go through this all of the time in my industry and the scenarios are sometimes impossible to recreate. It can be as simple as a temporary bad internet connection to complicated issues involving overheating consoles or script errors. I'd rather DE remain truthful than to lie. They do fix issues continuously so that must mean the issue is more difficult than normal.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Well they can't fix everything.... That much is clear... But still the more things they can alleviate from the network... The less severe remaining problems will be....

As for my experience Specifically... I've been in situations that were so Laggy the Doors wouldn't open... But My Abilities and Weapon attacks still Registered Quite Responsively....  Warframe is funny like that 😝 !!!

I disagree.... 

Ofcourse they can't solve it all... No developer has as far as I know... But is it pointless ? 

Nope.... I don't think it is....

That's not really a Solution.... 😐

 

 

I'm more refering to the operator thing. There would be zero reason to change the transference bug if the operator was still unusable after having done the transfer i.e not being able to damage eidolon shields or strip resistance and so on from certain mobs because the host still needs to recieve/send that data. It would still be the same thing it is now, it would just look different. Just as transfering back to the frame and not being able to deal damage, same thing as now, different shape, end result would be the exact same with the player being able to do nothing. 

And leaving is the only real solution when you play peer-to-peer games, because there will always be issues you cannot get a fix for that is entirely tied to the host/client connection.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Le 20/06/2021 à 00:23, Lutesque a dit :

I mean... Am I wrong ? Would it not be worth that effort ?

For the game yes it is but for DE it probably not even thinkable. De is the subsidiary, meaning that their ultimate purpose is to generate dividends, to generate dividends it means that it need to generate revenue, but more importantly it halso has to grow in revenues. Every feature that is not making profit short term doesn't generate growth on the ongoing exercice and so is probablematic. It is issue that most financiarised products have. At some points there are interest conflicts that ultimately occur at the detriment of the product itself. This is one of the reasons why I'm profoundly anti capitalism, but it's another unpopular opinion I have, and it also have nothing to do on general forum either ^^'.

What some gaming companies do, is to incorporate R&D in their scope, in some countries it reduces taxes, on paper it helps dealing with this kind of "debt" in their games. Sometimes they make overcomplicated frameworks that make their game bug everywhere(Like Ubisoft with their Anvil wich seem to be terribly bad)

Edited by Galuf
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...