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Helminth Grows a New Appetite: 30.5 Update!


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5 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Yea, I'm not gonna be able to do a 2 minute relic capture without a fully buffed helminth group....

Relax.

and all players farm just relics like you?

Brave to claim such a thing, you avoiding on purpose like 10 or more game modes and specific farms, that already required specific frames.

Feels like we're playing 2 completely different games and we have 2 completely different goals.

Pointless discuss more with you, enjoy warframe pseudo rivens!

Edited by Radu10
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21 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

As long as they're opt in and don't just randomly turn on there's no issue. 

If you personally don't like it, you don't have to get the segment from Son.

I'm pretty excited and looking forward to it.

Lets be honest for a moment, how good is warframe's history on "opt-in" buffs?

I understand that for now they seem to be opt-in, but from what i can tell there is no way to back out of it, and it lasts until the end of the week. Plus they could always still make changes to it, and quite frankly with how recent updates are getting worse and worse, I don't trust DE not to make it forced in some fashion.

Edited by Joezone619
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3 minutes ago, Radu10 said:

and all players farm just relics like you?

Brave to claim such a thing, you avoiding on purpose like 10 or more game modes and specific farms, that already required specific frames.

Feels like we're playing 2 completely different games and we have 2 completely different goals.

Pointless discuss more with you, enjoy warframe pseudo rivens!

I'm all ears...please provide a scenario where this will happen....

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2 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

It's not even released and you're already dependent on it? 

It's a free random buff...you've been playing without it already. If the stars align and you get lucky playing a particular frame one day and a buff for you appears, then have some fun. No harm no foul.

nah we have been playing with it -> arbitration

i know this is slightly different, but its REALLY upsetting to see a buff on a frame i enjoy but in defection (which every sane person dislikes), or seeing a good mission but having the buff on a frame i despise (for me thats grendel, i just find him very unfun, its upsetting but to a lesser degree). how would you feel if it took you a month to get the frame you wanted, only for the buff to be useless. i know that that how we are playing now for the most part, but seeing that can feel like something has been taken from you.

also it isnt 'no harm' there are people who take the leaderboards very seriously (im not 'I MUST BE NO1' but i do find it fun to have a good possition) but imagine you spend 12h in one session trying to get a good score in eso and making it to No.1 by the skin off your teeth and some group with the perfect invigorations snipes the no.1 spot with a score that is unbeatable without invigorations. that would be like having a Pro MOBA game where your oponent starts with 1 complete item, its unwinable.

onto eidolons, it obv wont make a difference as you can 1 shot each stage, but thats not going to stop people in recruiting chat asking for the DPS to have 200% strength bonus. ive seen enough toxic over the top expectations in recruiting chat to know that thats what some people will do (not all but, one bad apple can ruin the lot)

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4 minutes ago, Joezone619 said:

Lets be honest for a moment, how good is warframe's history on "opt-in" buffs?

I understand that for now they seem to be opt-in, but from what i can tell there is no way to back out of it, and it lasts until the end of the week. Plus they could always still make changes to it, and quite frankly with how recent updates are getting worse and worse, I don't trust DE not to make it forced in some fashion.

Your own opinion of recent updates is no factor. I think the updates have been getting better. Your trust in DE is conjecture as well. If you don't install the segment, it won't be forced on you.

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People don't really care about the +power strength buff on arbitrations, or even the +damage buff unless it's on a weapon they already have that's already good. I don't see how these "invigorations" are really any different. If it's for a warframe people don't have/want to play that week, it will be ignored. If it's something that people already want in the first place, it will be used. This won't really change anything about what warframes people want to play in the same way that arbitration random buffs do not.

The crux of the problem here is that there is only one real meta: to do a ridiculous amount of damage at a ridiculous rate to a ridiculously large area while having enough tank to stay alive. There is no reason to take +power strength nyx over just using a standard mesa/saryn/wukong build. The fact that these are randomized is the problem; there is a low chance that it will roll something good on a warframe that can utilize the buff effectively is too low to use the system a vast majority of the time.

Perhaps it would be a better idea to have some control over the RNG by feeding the helminth a bit of a certain type of food to shift the chance of getting a certain buff on a certain warframe, if the RNG system is to be kept.

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3 minutes ago, Radu10 said:

and all players farm just relics like you?

Brave to claim such a thing, you avoiding on purpose like 10 or more game modes and specific farms, that already required specific frames.

Feels like we're playing 2 completely different games and we have 2 completely different goals.

Pointless discuss more with you, enjoy warframe pseudo rivens!

so for what? What mode is there that's going to NEED a frame with a random buff?

and since when did leaderborads become such a popular thing in Waframe???

i feel like these "concerns" are vastly overstated. 

That said, my issues with invigorations is that it'll feel like a comedown when your frames buff ends. I also hope that certain stats are less likely to appear on certain frames. As random as it may be, i dont want to play missions where there are constantly 2-3 strength buffed Saryns. Im not going to have a meltdown over a hypothetical though, i'll wait and see how it plays out. 

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9 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

INTRODUCING: INVIGORATIONS

Son has been busy developing new bio-technologies for Helminth. Visit SON in the Necralisk on DEIMOS to obtain the New Segment required to upgrade your Helminth to perform a new operation: Invigorations! 


Our main objective with this system expansion is really simple: give players a way to engage with Warframes they may not have used in a while!


Here’s how it will work:
 

Every week, your Helminth will have an Affinity toward 3 Random Warframes. You can interact with Helminth with these Warframes to gain select Weekly Buffs (one Offensive and one Utility/Defense)! For example:

 

Zephyr: 200% Power Strength and Immune To Status
Atlas: 200% Primary Critical Chance and +1000 Armor
Excalibur: 250% Melee Damage and 75% power Efficiency

 

These will be drawn randomly per player. Tenno can check their Helminth during the Weekly reset to see what Invigorations are available for the week. Once you infuse the Invigoration, it lasts the week before the power of the Helminth wears off. 

To give players some control over what will be very powerful buffs, the Helminth takes note of your interactions - for every 10 Invigorations you do, you’ll be able to Select what Warframe receives the next buff! 

 

As of now, the Segment will cost 30,000 Entrati Standing and will be available once you hit the rank of Family. Get your Family tokens ready, Tenno! 

Oh great, weekly Power Creep lottery.

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Just now, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

I'm all ears...please provide a scenario where this will happen....

Eidolons, SE farms, resources farms, specific endless missions when host is trying get an efficient squad.
People focusing on doing leaderboards score missions, or speedruns to submit to speedrun.com, operations with leaderboards (OV for example)

All those categories 'cause player like you wont mind a buff to crack a relic in a capture fissure.

And hey let's not forget the main reason behind those rng buffs, DE trying make people use bad warframes, whenever rng decides those will be buffed.

While in reality those frames needs an actual rework to be viable, this system wont change a thing in this matter.

Let's be happy and agree with DE decisions, am I right?

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3 minutes ago, -MG-CephalonCinnamon said:

nah we have been playing with it -> arbitration

i know this is slightly different, but its REALLY upsetting to see a buff on a frame i enjoy but in defection (which every sane person dislikes), or seeing a good mission but having the buff on a frame i despise (for me thats grendel, i just find him very unfun, its upsetting but to a lesser degree). how would you feel if it took you a month to get the frame you wanted, only for the buff to be useless. i know that that how we are playing now for the most part, but seeing that can feel like something has been taken from you.

also it isnt 'no harm' there are people who take the leaderboards very seriously (im not 'I MUST BE NO1' but i do find it fun to have a good possition) but imagine you spend 12h in one session trying to get a good score in eso and making it to No.1 by the skin off your teeth and some group with the perfect invigorations snipes the no.1 spot with a score that is unbeatable without invigorations. that would be like having a Pro MOBA game where your oponent starts with 1 complete item, its unwinable.

onto eidolons, it obv wont make a difference as you can 1 shot each stage, but thats not going to stop people in recruiting chat asking for the DPS to have 200% strength bonus. ive seen enough toxic over the top expectations in recruiting chat to know that thats what some people will do (not all but, one bad apple can ruin the lot)

How an individual handles or manages their own ego issues isn't the games fault. You would have a point if rewards were tied to leaderboards.

And recruit chat is for people to make their own groups. You can make your own group that doesn't have restrictions or demands. Plenty of others will as well.

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17 minutes ago, Gynvaelbleidd said:

I would like to give a feedback about the Invigoration new mechanic.

Personally, I like the idea proposed: weekly random buffs to enhance the gameplay and change the pace you play your warframes.

Sadly, this gameplay diversity proposed is too similar to the same we get from Arbitrations.

I would love to see more innovative gameplay enhancement. Since I'm saying it I'll propose a few.

Think every time you invigorate your random warframe with a weekly buff you'll get a new fixed Loadout, an Enhanced Loadout.

If you select this Enhanced Loadout you'll active and use the weekly buffs. This would allow an easy opt-in and out form to this system.

For buffs that I believe would truly change your gameplay that week I would suggest:

  • Augmented Invigoration - All Augmented Mods are active on this warframe.
  • Polarity Invigoration - All Mods slots are under effect of universal polarity.
  • Mod Invigoration - All effects from Mods of a specified family (Naramon, Vazarin or Madurai) are doubled (Corrupted Included).
  • Status Invigoration - Currently proposed Invigoration buff.

I believe Augmented Invigoration would be amazing for any player looking to play with all augmented mods while not spending slots for them.

Polarity Invigoration would be a dream for any player without a "Forma-ed" warframe since it would allow him to make any build.

Mod Invigoration would be the closest to the actual proposed system, but would give to the player the option how to build your warframe.

Maybe Madurai Mod Invigoration would make some Warframes too strong, but only for that week, wouldn't that be fun?

And lastly the actual proposed system as an option of Invigoration to that week.

I know this idea would not please everybody but I believe that more meaningful enhancements added with the status enhancement that we already see on Arbitration would be a better addiction to the game.

see- this is real feedback. I agree with you. Invigorations would be far more exciting if they gave us something new like the ideas you presented. Something more than just +power strength. Even utility stats would be welcome

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6 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

so for what? What mode is there that's going to NEED a frame with a random buff?

and since when did leaderborads become such a popular thing in Waframe???

i feel like these "concerns" are vastly overstated. 

That said, my issues with invigorations is that it'll feel like a comedown when your frames buff ends. I also hope that certain stats are less likely to appear on certain frames. As random as it may be, i dont want to play missions where there are constantly 2-3 strength buffed Saryns. Im not going to have a meltdown over a hypothetical though, i'll wait and see how it plays out. 

Do you understand this is basically warframe rivens?

Those are even better actually 'cause are permanent once you get them and can reroll it within a week as long as you have kuva.

Do you need be reminded all the reasons why people refused frame rivens?

I made a suggestion as well btw and also suggested more utility buffs instead

Edited by Radu10
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The week long duration of the invigorations is kind of a turn off for me. I'd much rather the system go like this:

Every frame is available at any time, and the specific set of buffs then rotates every week. Each buff is much smaller but lasts for as long as you want it to. Also there should be a limit of how many frames you can do this to out of the roster (i.e. only 5 out of 20 frames)

This way, different people could have different extra small buffs on the frame of their choice, you want more strength on your Xaku? Someone else could put more duration on theirs whenever that buff rotation comes! If you get tired of having the small strength buff and see a better set of buffs during another week, then you can switch out to that!

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2 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

How an individual handles or manages their own ego issues isn't the games fault. You would have a point if rewards were tied to leaderboards.

And recruit chat is for people to make their own groups. You can make your own group that doesn't have restrictions or demands. Plenty of others will as well.

And why I have to play/farm efficiently while I know it can be done/is being done more efficiently by another group but I can't join it 'cause RNG?

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7 minutes ago, Sylphaeri said:

People don't really care about the +power strength buff on arbitrations, or even the +damage buff unless it's on a weapon they already have that's already good. I don't see how these "invigorations" are really any different. If it's for a warframe people don't have/want to play that week, it will be ignored. If it's something that people already want in the first place, it will be used. This won't really change anything about what warframes people want to play in the same way that arbitration random buffs do not.

The crux of the problem here is that there is only one real meta: to do a ridiculous amount of damage at a ridiculous rate to a ridiculously large area while having enough tank to stay alive. There is no reason to take +power strength nyx over just using a standard mesa/saryn/wukong build. The fact that these are randomized is the problem; there is a low chance that it will roll something good on a warframe that can utilize the buff effectively is too low to use the system a vast majority of the time.

Perhaps it would be a better idea to have some control over the RNG by feeding the helminth a bit of a certain type of food to shift the chance of getting a certain buff on a certain warframe, if the RNG system is to be kept.

Shooting gallery is on my nyx... shooting gallery has a weapon buff based on strength. People use all kinds of stuff in the game. 

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@[DE]Rebecca

Can you just make the invigoration PERMANENT on your warframe but with lesser bonus? 

eg. Atlas can have +250 base armor instead of 1000 but it's permanent  (Only 1 permanent buff per warframe but can be change when helminth offers another buff)

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8 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

INTRODUCING: INVIGORATIONS

Our main objective with this system expansion is really simple: give players a way to engage with Warframes they may not have used in a while!


Here’s how it will work: Every week, your Helminth will have an Affinity toward 3 Random Warframes. You can interact with Helminth with these Warframes to gain select Weekly Buffs (one Offensive and one Utility/Defense)!

These will be drawn randomly per player. Tenno can check their Helminth during the Weekly reset to see what Invigorations are available for the week. Once you infuse the Invigoration, it lasts the week before the power of the Helminth wears off. 

To give players some control over what will be very powerful buffs, the Helminth takes note of your interactions - for every 10 Invigorations you do, you’ll be able to Select what Warframe receives the next buff! 

RNG systems like this do not last, they never will. The Arbitration modifiers were fun at first, but over time people only ever engaged with frames that they are fond of playing. Adding massive amounts of power strength to Hydroid or Nyx isn't going to encourage me to play those frames - those frames are fundamentally flawed, clunky, and uninteresting. 

While you may have some individuals try out the system, the frustration of getting irrelevant roles caused by poor RNG (Efficiency or Shields on Inaros, Strength on Limbo, etc.) would be discouraging and gradually cause players to lose interest. 

I appreciate the time and effort to create a new system - I am sure whoever thought this up had good intentions. However, this is just another rendition of the concept for Echoes of Umbra; temporary and random systems like these are not enjoyable and do not belong in Warframe. 

This system is especially bad for individuals who are unable to participate as much or have less time throughout the weeks. For a player can only get on for a couple hours one day a week this system is entirely useless.

 

 

A better system would be for Invigorations to not be bound to any warframe in particular, instead just have three (or even five) random sets of Offensive/Utility/Defense modifiers be applied to your active warframe:

  • 200% Power Strength and Immune To Status
  • 200% Primary Critical Chance and +1000 Armor
  • 250% Melee Damage and 75% power Efficiency

Even if the system was opened up as I suggested, I think the negatives still far outweigh any positives that would come from it. This feels like an attempt at Rivens for warframes - but skirting around using actual Rivens to save face with a major portion of the community that considers them to be a toxic part of this game.

 

In conclusion, this system should be held back until it can be properly implemented in an impactful way. 

Quote

“If you want to have good ideas you must have many ideas. Most of them will be wrong, and what you have to learn is which ones to throw away.”
― Linus Pauling

 

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2 minutes ago, Sylphaeri said:

People don't really care about the +power strength buff on arbitrations, or even the +damage buff unless it's on a weapon they already have that's already good. I don't see how these "invigorations" are really any different. If it's for a warframe people don't have/want to play that week, it will be ignored. If it's something that people already want in the first place, it will be used. This won't really change anything about what warframes people want to play in the same way that arbitration random buffs do not.

The crux of the problem here is that there is only one real meta: to do a ridiculous amount of damage at a ridiculous rate to a ridiculously large area while having enough tank to stay alive. There is no reason to take +power strength nyx over just using a standard mesa/saryn/wukong build. The fact that these are randomized is the problem; there is a low chance that it will roll something good on a warframe that can utilize the buff effectively is too low to use the system a vast majority of the time.

Perhaps it would be a better idea to have some control over the RNG by feeding the helminth a bit of a certain type of food to shift the chance of getting a certain buff on a certain warframe, if the RNG system is to be kept.

i rarely ever play arbitrations anymore, but if i see ember im playing it (as long its not defection). getting the buff on a set of frames i love and not being screwed by mission type decides if i play arbi or not.

also the meta is not exactly 'do a ridiculous amount of damage at a ridiculous rate to a ridiculously large area while having enough tank to stay alive' its more along the lines of do JUST ENOUGH damage to kill while moving around as fast as possible / affecting as many enemies as possible in a way that makes you untouchable (ability/shield gate/staggers or just killing fast enough so you dont even get attacked). not much of a difference but i felt like it was significant enough to mention.

but buffs of this nature should not be allowed to have ANY rng, because they'll make any leaderboard (operations or ESO) unfair if you didnt get lucky and get the perfect combination of frame and buff for yourself and the squad you are grinding with. imagine if your faviourite competition (e-sports or physical sport, or game show) was decided by a dice roll not skill

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5 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

see- this is real feedback. I agree with you. Invigorations would be far more exciting if they gave us something new like the ideas you presented. Something more than just +power strength. Even utility stats would be welcome

I really hope they give it a second though and bring more meaningful things that really change our gameplay.

I'm those of few mr 30 that rarely plays nowadays, but I can easily see myself back to the game to play with the some of the buffs that I mentioned.

And of course they would be great for any "new player" that already has access to the Helminth system.

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7 minutes ago, Radu10 said:

And why I have to play/farm efficiently while I know it can be done/is being done more efficiently by another group but I can't join it 'cause RNG?

When you go to sleep or go to work....you're also missing out on potential hot recruit chat groups....

The update isn't even here yet, and you've still missed some groups. 

No one said you're entitled to any specific group. Do you feel that you are for some reason?

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13 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

so for what? What mode is there that's going to NEED a frame with a random buff?

and since when did leaderborads become such a popular thing in Waframe???

i feel like these "concerns" are vastly overstated. 

That said, my issues with invigorations is that it'll feel like a comedown when your frames buff ends. I also hope that certain stats are less likely to appear on certain frames. As random as it may be, i dont want to play missions where there are constantly 2-3 strength buffed Saryns. Im not going to have a meltdown over a hypothetical though, i'll wait and see how it plays out. 

you'd be surprised how many people care, and dont underestimate the power of crying the loudest.

and with how 'un skilled' most saryns are, a 200% buff on them would actually hurt them making it difficult to maintain stacks, and multiplie saryns nerf each other by killing off eachothers damage output.

that being considered outside of wave 1-8 ESO and excuding the VERY small portion of good saryns who minmax kill rate with rivens, its quite easy to outkill and outdamage saryns.

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16 minutes ago, (XBOX)UmbranAssassin said:

Honest question. Was there any benefit to having this ability, doesn't Titania's spellbind already do this and for both the player and allies on hold cast. 

Now there's another option for those without an extra titania.

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4 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

When you go to sleep or go to work....you're also missing out on potential hot recruit chat groups....

The update isn't even here yet, and you've still missed some groups. 

No one said you're entitled to any specific group. Do you feel that you are for some reason?

I'll still be more restricted when I am playing.

And please tell me, do you believe this system will make players use bad warframes?

Yes or no.

If we can all agree it wont, then this system isn't needed

Edited by Radu10
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