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Helminth Grows a New Appetite: 30.5 Update!


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1 hour ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

I didn't make the claim.....

If you say the earth is flat, it's your job to prove it.

Like I said before, what you think is bad for the game and the players is rhetoric and conjecture. That means it's not true.

Yeah and if you reply to me saying the earth is a cilinder you also need to prove it, stop believing you are sitting on the truth, we're exactly in the same position!

What I think?

You want me calculate the ratio from all the comments here to show you the general opinion about this topic?

What you think is good for the game (this system) has no valid base and reasons at all, and you still aren't providing those. We're both making conjectures, but mines seems more close to reality, simple as that...

DE's reason is to make warframes with bad abilities be used more, and it will not happen, so this system idea is bad from the start.

'Cause we need those frames be good in certain missions types so we have a purpose to use them, we need good abilities that makes the frame fun and useful, no RANDOM BUFFS.

I you believe those random buffs will make people use those specific frames I'm sorry but you're playing an entire different game, so stop defending this nosense!

Edited by Radu10
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19 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

PARASITIC ARMOR (11)

Sacrifice Shields to reinforce Armor for a period of time
 

HIDEOUS RESISTANCE (12)

Grant yourself immunity to Status effects.
 

VORACIOUS METASTASIS (13)

Consume Energy to heal yourself and grant matching Energy to each ally.
 

SICKENING PULSE (14)

Emit a pulse that adds stacks to Status Effects already afflicting enemies, except Bleed or Toxin effects which are duplicated with fresh timers.
 

GOLDEN INSTINCT (15)

Send out a short-lived Void Spark that is drawn toward the nearest Medallion, Ayatan Sculpture, unscanned Kuria or unscanned Fragment.

Without numbers, these don't give any context to how useful they will be. 

For example, I saw in the video that it says "conversion rate 100%" for P. Armor, which seems like it could be quite good for some frames if it's point per point. 

However, unless hideous resistance lasts half the mission or costs 10 energy, I can't see it being useful basically ever. 

Voracious Metastasis is kind of... Why? By this level, you can subsume Well of Life and Pool of Life literally causes the ability to pay for itself or, in the most ideal scenario, upscale your energy. Gloom works better with Rage or Hunter Adrenaline. Granting allies energy when we have almost no content that benefits supportive play is completely pointless. In fact, considering your new Galvanized Mods, we're actively competing with our own teammates to be useful in a mission. The only possible outcome I can see for this is either it is completely useless on launch, or it gets nerfed akin to Greedy Pull.

Does Sickening Pulse have continuity to the damage I actually deal(e.g, if my heat proc deals 1000 damage, does activating this ability give another 1000 damage heat proc stack)? Does it cost 10 energy? Does it go above the status effect caps? In what scenario is this worth putting on a Warframe when I could just continue using the gun that applied these status effects in the first place? 

Golden Instinct is just pathetic. Like, absolutely and utterly worthless. We've officially added Minecraft's Eye of Ender into the game as a power instead of just creating more distinct icons for the loot radar or buffing Chesa Kubrow. Like, what is the thought process of doing this? Unless it immediately went to the item and just highlighted it on the map for all of the people in mission, this is slower than just going through a mission with Limbo and Greedy Pull, or Xaku and Greedy Pull. Kuria have limited spawn areas, so Youtube videos are more effective than the entire ability that does less than it, Medallion spawns are also rather predictable. Fragments are extremely obvious compared to Ayatan Scupltures. 

 

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I read 10 pages of replies... (Invigoration is BAD = agreed)

What I'd LIKE to see out of Helminth, is Invigorated Abilities with their Augments fused into them, so the ability doesn't take a MOD slot from my loadout to use a "hold to get different effect" or the like. It's not like Augments really make all their augmented abilities all that much better in most cases anyway.

EDIT: (this would have to be selectable by sacrificing the augment mod to the Helminth, and permanent, but expandable, giving you the option to Invigorate any ability with its selection of augment mods that you've already fed to the Helminth... So configuration A could have one Augment mod, while B could have a different Augment for the same ability.)

Edited by (PSN)AyinDygra
Added a more complete idea for a version of Invigorate.
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PoG PoG haha

 

 i love it i play arbitration j4f for all the fun things u can do somezimes and this new system makes that a weekly ohlolol

 

it feels very overpowered but will be ok. just getting barely used frames to a point where they may rock is super exciteing plus everyone will now see every ability and frames in a diffrent view as before (from "useless" as some may say)

 

love the changes it all goes toward more variety and playing all the diffrent options u have in the game. i love it :)

 

 

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Secondary thoughts:

Helminth Rank 15 skill... should, instead, be a permanent "Primed Loot Radar" MOD, with unique icons for Ayatans, Medallions, Kuria, Cache's, Rare Containers, Somachords, etc, instead of all being a blanket chest icon or cephalon fragment.  I'm not likely to be replacing any abilities on any frames to have that feature.  (OR, you could make a new gear item that does this - and on the note of gear items that should exist: we need Companion Restoration Stations that revive fallen Sentinels and pets, instead of requiring us to Die to get them back.)

 

Also, the whole no-compensation-for-early-adopters is highly disrespectful... and feels like wasted time/resources bothering to do anything with the system past rank 10... and once I hit 15... why bother doing more with limited resources again (can't subsume a frame 2x), since you'll disregard those too, when you add 5 more ranks in the future!

 

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dont overthink these..

that ability that searches for ayatan etc. sure isnt viable on endgame play but helps newer player to even find it once. plus a hint that them exist. also if ur up for it u can use it j4f. i like it

 

i like to search caches and medaillons and i woulnt like it if something automatically shows me them. there are already quite enough tools available to find them rather quickly. tho some help for some of the harder ones can be appreciated or a mechanic that shows me if i missed something.. i thought about this a lot and came to conclusion that if my radar would show it to me would ruin the thrill of search&finding them.

but since there are super rare containers out there which i also love to hunt id say at a bare maximum if my sentinel would say smth like "secret detected" at the beginning of a mission thats already enough for me. lg

Edited by Cybernoise
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7 minutes ago, Cybernoise said:

that ability that searches for ayatan etc. sure isnt viable on endgame play but helps newer player to even find it once.

It can't help a new player because you can't be a new player by the time you've invested heavily enough to unlock it.

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Everyone is already piling on invigorations so instead I'll just ask you to make the helminth XP retroactive, or at least give some sort of reward\XP amount based on what is subsumed already. I understand why you don't want to but please reconsider, as it is now it's a bit unfair to all the people who already invested time and effort into the space garbage bin, as sacrificing all frames gives wayyyy more than what you need for level 10. Even just a fraction of the exp you get for subsuming all warframes combined should at least give a headstart.

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7 minutes ago, SpiralSilver said:

Even just a fraction of the exp you get for subsuming all warframes combined should at least give a headstart.

Don't let them cop-out. Full credit for a finite, exhaustible resource is the only acceptable answer.

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I like invigorations. 

I've been getting  tired of playing the same few frames in Arbi, so I started to forma + Helminth every frame specifically so they can make use of the Arbi buff. Works surprisingly well. So this seems nice.

Can't say I have much use for these new helminth abilities though.😅 'Hideous Resistance' could be a nice QoL ability, I suppose.

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On 2021-06-18 at 2:56 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Does your Helminth Rank automatically increase when the new 5 Ranks are added?

- No. The new Invigorations will give XP/Affinity toward Helminth in addition to normal feeding and Subsume/Infusion actions! There won’t be any automatic rankups based on the current vs new Level Cap. 

Please reconsider disrespecting all of the grind and latest subsumed frames to helminth.

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Week long arbitration bonus's ??  ( I guess this would be nice for the FORCED steel path bullcrap you make us do.  It makes me so warm and fuzzy when DE decides what frames and weapons I should use for me.)

An ability to do something my freaking radar mod should do in the first place??  Thanks.... 

-------------

This would have been a good place to let us give our warframes  Excal Umbra AI for like a week at a time or permanently or something.   

How about letting us pick a 3 day booster once a week?   

 

 

 

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On 2021-06-18 at 8:56 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Tenno,

The Helminth System is being expanded in the Sisters of Parvos Update. This system has been quite popular with players who really enjoy deep customization, so we’re doing 2 things:

- Adding 5 more Ranks and 5 new ‘Helminth’ Abilities.
- Adding a new system: INVIGORATIONS!

You can watch a video explanation as part of our Video Dev Workshop:

 

With the help of our trusty Design Council, the Helminth has been injected with new Helminth Abilities! Each one unlocks at one of the new Helminth Ranks (11,12,13,14,15)!
 

PARASITIC ARMOR (11)

Sacrifice Shields to reinforce Armor for a period of time
 

HIDEOUS RESISTANCE (12)

Grant yourself immunity to Status effects.
 

VORACIOUS METASTASIS (13)

Consume Energy to heal yourself and grant matching Energy to each ally.
 

SICKENING PULSE (14)

Emit a pulse that adds stacks to Status Effects already afflicting enemies, except Bleed or Toxin effects which are duplicated with fresh timers.
 

GOLDEN INSTINCT (15)

Send out a short-lived Void Spark that is drawn toward the nearest Medallion, Ayatan Sculpture, unscanned Kuria or unscanned Fragment.


 

INTRODUCING: INVIGORATIONS

 

Son has been busy developing new bio-technologies for Helminth. Visit SON in the Necralisk on DEIMOS to obtain the New Segment required to upgrade your Helminth to perform a new operation: Invigorations! 


Our main objective with this system expansion is really simple: give players a way to engage with Warframes they may not have used in a while!


Here’s how it will work:
 

Every week, your Helminth will have an Affinity toward 3 Random Warframes. You can interact with Helminth with these Warframes to gain select Weekly Buffs (one Offensive and one Utility/Defense)! For example:

 

Zephyr: 200% Power Strength and Immune To Status
Atlas: 200% Primary Critical Chance and +1000 Armor
Excalibur: 250% Melee Damage and 75% power Efficiency

 

These will be drawn randomly per player. Tenno can check their Helminth during the Weekly reset to see what Invigorations are available for the week. Once you infuse the Invigoration, it lasts the week before the power of the Helminth wears off. 

To give players some control over what will be very powerful buffs, the Helminth takes note of your interactions - for every 10 Invigorations you do, you’ll be able to Select what Warframe receives the next buff! 

 

As of now, the Segment will cost 30,000 Entrati Standing and will be available once you hit the rank of Family. Get your Family tokens ready, Tenno! 



EDIT: FAQ Addition.

This will be expanded throughout next week as more questions come in!


 

Helminth Workshop FAQ: 

Does your Helminth Rank automatically increase when the new 5 Ranks are added?

- No. The new Invigorations will give XP/Affinity toward Helminth in addition to normal feeding and Subsume/Infusion actions! There won’t be any automatic rankups based on the current vs new Level Cap. 


Are Invigoration options only chosen based on Warframes you own?

No, much like Arbitration Warframe Buffs, the Invigorations options are pulled from the entire roster. 

 


 

I love everything here so hard

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Hmmm the ability at rank 15 seems like one I'll be using because there's still a ton of those things I need so it will be extremely useful.. hopefully it last like 30s allowing me time to see which way it going & where as I'm slow to detect things... this will be extremely useful on nekros & farming frames..

 

Rank 12 ability looks good as well Might be extremely useful in high level missions! 

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The more I think about invigorations the less I like it.

So many negative impacts that the system can have that makes it unusable for the frames it intends to "buff". A few examples.

1. Nova with +strength, Nova with +Range. Both stats you dont really want, so getting either in a combo with another buff makes that weeks "buff" unusable for the Nova. The same kinda applies to Sevagoth though slightly different.

2. Loki with +strength, pointless, but can very likely still be one of the options. Such "buffs"! I guess the same could be said about Limbo, though range would also have a straight negative impact on him, espcially if you plan on running corpus or corrupted missions with nullis.

3. Baruuk with +duration, that will make the "buff" the week a no go, no matter what else comes with it. Since you just crippled your restraint management.

4. Nyx with +anything, it just wont help her to get to a point of an otherwise unbuffed frame, since her kit is straight up bad.

5. +Strength on some of the attack speed buffing frames. Straight up giving a high chance to break melee and make them unplayable. Same deal there, big chance to avoid those "buffs". This also comes with a drawback in groups where people may not fully understand the interaction of their frame and go only for big numbers, such as inflated strength stats.

6. +range on some frames that turn very intrusive with way too high range. Like a poorly played Wisp covering the whole map in shocked or sleeping mobs. Or a Limbo/Frost with a far too wide cata/globe.

The imbalance will be horrible between the benefits and drawbacks or the straight up no effect the system will have on many frames. Just look at it. Already strong frames like Saryn, Rhino, Rev, Chroma, Vauban, Ember, Lavos, Volt, Enox and so on will only benefit from the system, no matter what they really roll. But many of the already weaker or very specialized frames will either see no benefit from it, have very limited stats that actually buff them, or see things that would only be a drawback if they pick the buffs for the week. The weak frames will just see no real benefit, because the stats just wont help them perform better, since the kits arent good enough to be supported by the system. Sure, plus range, duration or efficiency may be nice on Nyx, but it doesnt actually change her performance in a way that makes her stronger.

A secondary subsumed skill would be better for those frames. And it would be easy to balance, require the second subsume to replace the ultimate i.e #4 on the frame that wants a second subsume.

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I'm sure many will have asked this but...
Will XP earnt through actions like feeding or subsuming be 'stored' and then released all at once when these 5 new levels become available, or will people who have a rank 10 helminth be put at the beginning of rank 10 regardless of how many frames have been subsumed and resources fed while at that rank?

edit: I am bad at reading. If I knew that xp earnt at rank 10 didn't store ages ago, I would have held the 22-odd frames in my inventory and then when the update came out I'd just rush subsume them all at once. make any earnt XP carry over! I am not wasting anymore resources to feed my Helminth for abilities I won't use but want just for completion.
Also the Invigorations just sound bad, and although this will sound really hard to implement, maybe make it so that the stats it buffs are ones that are increased by mods in the players build? that way people who use a Speed Nova aren't constantly getting +Strength Nova Invigorations.

Edited by (XBOX)KawaiiAsa
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Invigorations sound pretty cool (but i do own almost all the frames), but this, THIS

Le 18/06/2021 à 15:56, [DE]Rebecca a dit :

 

Does your Helminth Rank automatically increase when the new 5 Ranks are added?

- No. The new Invigorations will give XP/Affinity toward Helminth in addition to normal feeding and Subsume/Infusion actions! There won’t be any automatic rankups based on the current vs new Level Cap. 

This is a straight up INSULT to anyone who uses the helmnith system. At least have the subsumed frames count since i'm pretty sure you can't farm that.

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Hey DE, I´ve been thinking: Since this proposed "infusion" system seems to be universally disliked, why not rework it into something that ties to the Sisters/Lich system considering it is coming with Sisters of Parvos? What if "Infusion" works by sacrificing a converted Lich/Sister so you can add its elemental attribute to a Warframe ability?

For example: Sacrifice a converted Lich with a 42% cold damage bonus to add a 42% cold damage bonus to Gauss's Mach Rush.

This elemental bonus should mirror/mimic the ability's properties (Crit/Status chance), and should work like Xaku's Xata's Whisper (It's own damage instance that is not fused with other elements) as to ensure base functions work as expected (A Toxin-infused Fire Blast causes both heat and toxin damage instead of Gas damage). Infusion remains with that ability until you decide to remove it, but the Lich/Sister is gone forever. You can infuse 1 Lich/Sister per ability assuming the ability has a base damage value the elemental bonus can scale from.

I think this would add a lot of value to converted Liches/Sisters and expand upon Helminth functions in a more controlled way that rewards player investment in both the Lich/Sister and Helminth systems, and adds long-term value to Lich/Sister enemies long after you're done farming their weapons.

 

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19 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

Am I not reading this properly, or are you punishing early adopters for maxing-out their Helminths already?

Hey, if the Devs wanna punish early adopters, then when are we non-founders finally getting Excalibur Prime, Lato Prime, and Skana Prime?

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1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

Hey DE, I´ve been thinking: Since this proposed "infusion" system seems to be universally disliked, why not rework it into something that ties to the Sisters/Lich system considering it is coming with Sisters of Parvos? What if "Infusion" works by sacrificing a converted Lich/Sister so you can add its elemental attribute to a Warframe ability?

For example: Sacrifice a converted Lich with a 42% cold damage bonus to add a 42% cold damage bonus to Gauss's Mach Rush.

This elemental bonus should mirror/mimic the ability's properties (Crit/Status chance), and should work like Xaku's Xata's Whisper (It's own damage instance that is not fused with other elements) as to ensure base functions work as expected (A Toxin-infused Fire Blast causes both heat and toxin damage instead of Gas damage).

I think this would add a lot of value to converted Liches/Sisters and expand upon Helminth functions in a more controlled way that rewards player investment in both the Lich/Sister and Helminth systems, and adds long-term value to Lich/Sister enemies long after you're done farming their weapons.

 

 

an idea that.. 

puts VALUE on CONVERTING liches, instead of just vanquishing them into the void? to be seen as weapon pinjatas?? 

actually getting and doing lich's once we are -DONE- farming all their weapons? making it after that a non-interesting system that we can just say we are -done- with?

 

YES PLEASE.

Hey DE, listen to this dude/dudette

Just make sure such an ability infusion as proposed can be 1on1 ratio, 1 converted lich's elemental infusion for 1 single ability.

 

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Why are early adapters of the hemlith system being punished for completing the grind I've farmed all frames and subsumed them into my hemlith but I'm not going to see any of that XP what am I supposed to do spam infuse on one ability just to increase my hemlith's level I tried avoiding this by actually working towards using the hemlith system properly and now I'm getting punished for it. Also the parazon system missed the mark on a revamp no mater what percentage you put the threshold to if I'm using the right build I'm not going to see this ever be able to execute on it as the target is going to die before I get there this just feels lazy this system obviously doesn't work even though it would be great if it did why not just let the enemies do what the kuva thralls already do and just take a knee if they hit zero HP

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The new Helminth abilities are welcome, but I'm struggling to understand just who was asking for Infusions or why they're necessary... I've heard people asking for pets to be involved with Helminth, but who was asking for these kinds of absurd buffs? Like, sure, give my Khora +200% Power Strength or +200% Range or +250% Melee Damage plus a truckload of Armor I guess? To use where? For what? I'm already bored to tears playing a mission for more than 30 minutes and it takes hours for my gear to be tested even without these kinds of massive RNG buffs. If it was a super minor buff, like the old Arcane helmet effects, then it might be a nice flavor layer. But as it's written it sounds a bit absurd.

Edit: Actually, yeah. Make the Infusion buffs smaller but permanent, maybe with a downside. Instead of +200% Strength and +1000 Armor for a week, make it +15% Strength and -25 Armor and it's permanent until (freely) removed or replaced. The buffs and curses can be totally random so you have a reason to check back. Basically, old Arcane helmets but through Helminth. This wouldn't have all the issues the system will cause as proposed.

Edited by PublikDomain
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