Helminth Grows a New Appetite: 30.5 Update!

[EliBug]

On 2021-06-19 at 1:59 AM, MasterControl said:

Invigorations seem like a bad idea. It's especially worrying that they're random - I understand that you're trying to get us out of our comfort zone, but there's a couple issues with this.

1: It opens up the possibility for people to require your invigoration RNG to favor you to do certain content. I can see it now: H 7x3 Need Oberon w/ Range Invigoration, Rhino w/ Strength Invigoration, etc etc..

2: There is no guarantee that the stat bonuses will actually be beneficial, and could even be detrimental in some cases. What if I get Strength or Range on my Nova? Both of those can be bad for her, because range dictates how far you can be from an enemy before Null Star decides to give you less tank and strength restricts me from using a speed build. What if I get Strength on Loki? That doesn't help him much at all.

3: Do these stack with Arbitrations? Can you just get 500% str for free if you roll +str for your Arby frame bonus and +200% str from invigorations? I'm not sure being able to feasibly reach ~800-900% strength in arbys and ~500-600% in normal missions is healthy for the game.

This kind of feels dangerously close to Warframe rivens, and I'm not digging it. Having a massive performance increase locked behind RNG this way is a bad place for the game to go.

> What if I get Strength or Range on my Nova?

You don't have to choose to invigorate.

[SmokinDice]

Im not sure what to make off these invigorations. surely it will help having more diversity in missions maybe.

 

on the other side there might be options that "soft force" you to take them for something maybe to farm even better.. a chroma getting any buffs to strength efficiency or duration would make him even more of a farm machine for the week.

you will need a new build for these frames then every week, requiring more loadout slots or, again, forcing you to delete on of your builds to make more sense with the given free stats.

 

and if you get useless random stuff like loki with 200% strength thats basically a wasted slot...

[Zykk]

16 hours ago, Darkvramp said:

could this be used to find derelict vaults too? because these are not going to be in every mission.... and then will have no use, so it has to eventually have a use in one mission eternally.

That's a really good idea actually.

[Blyker]

8 hours ago, Radu10 said:

That's the point so nobody will use bad frames, with useless abilities, stat buffs wont make a difference, so considering this was the main goal for DE with this system, it already fails at the start and they need 180 asap!

I do not understand this. If this won't matter at all like you said then what does it matter that they introduce this? For me i might try a frame like Wukong for instance, a frame that i normally never use

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

15 hours ago, master_of_destiny said:

Now, please either explain your  work,

Well before I say anything else, I'll point out that my initial post was simply about the frames, not the frame-buff pairs. But anyway let's go.

Let's lay out the facts and assumptions:

• Fact: You will have one Offense buff type and 1 Utility/Defense buff type

  • On 2021-06-18 at 9:56 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

    You can interact with Helminth with these Warframes to gain select Weekly Buffs (one Offensive and one Utility/Defense)!

• Assumption: There are only 3 buffs values in each buff type.
  • Reasonable, we need some numbers to work with
• Assumption: Only one of each buff type exists.

  • 15 hours ago, master_of_destiny said:

    Note that the buff type location is fixed...because DE has explained one of each type of buff exists.

  • Source? The Workshop forum post and Workshop video make no indication that one of each buff type exists on a given week, only that you'll have one Offensive and one from the other two types. So you could very well end up with the second buff being from the Defensive type for each.

So looking at the permutations of buffs: I have 3 x 2 x 1 = 6 ways to arrange the first buff (Offensive buff) for a set of 3, assuming the same bonus can't appear twice (assumption on my part).
I have 6 different buffs for the second slot (3 in Defense, 3 in Utility, I can choose one from either). So I can arrange the second buff 6 x 5 x 4 = 120 different ways for a set of 3, assuming the same bonus can't appear twice, (assumption on my part again).
So that means I have 6 x 120 = 720 permutations of buffs for the 3 frames of the week.

I care about what unique sets of frames I see as I have accounted for the permutations of the buffs that can attached to the set of 3 frames.
For example:

  Excalibur        Grendel         Baruuk
Offense - 1    Offense - 2   Offense - 3
Defense - 1   Defense - 2   Defense - 3

is the same as

  Baruuk        Excalibur         Grendel
Offense - 3    Offense - 1   Offense - 2
Defense - 3   Defense - 1   Defense - 2

So I want the combinations of frames. nCr(47,3) = 16,215 combinations of frames, with each set of 3 frames having 720 buff permutations, for a total of 11,674,800 frame-buff pairs.

 

16 hours ago, master_of_destiny said:

apologize for the high and mighty attitude.  You failed to detect an error, cited a correction which took all of 10 seconds to demonstrate was incorrect, and tried to high road me.  Fantastic.

I don't see what warrants such hostility. If I'm wrong I'm wrong, don't need to be aggressive.

[-ShadowRadiance-]

1 hour ago, Blyker said:

9 hours ago, Radu10 said:

That's the point so nobody will use bad frames, with useless abilities, stat buffs wont make a difference, so considering this was the main goal for DE with this system, it already fails at the start and they need 180 asap!

I do not understand this. If this won't matter at all like you said then what does it matter that they introduce this? For me i might try a frame like Wukong for instance, a frame that i normally never use

Pray tell, 

What stats. If any.

Can fix.. hydroid.. Nyx.. Inaros.. Loki.. kits?

 

The point Radu makes, is, why would we, bring a inferior frame whos kits do not, synergize even with their own abilties, or any we can add with the current helminth system when we can bring a frame that does?

Why would i ever, in a billion years, bring a hydroid into a game? Inaros?

Nyx and Loki are used for 1-2 abilities that are highly outdated unless you minmax to silly levels.

Inaros is just mr fodder.

These buffs, might be seen as incentives to play some frames such as wukong. No stat on him is simply irrelevant.

Strength works, duration works, efficiency, works, range works.

 

Nyx? whos whole kit, is her 2 and 4. I only for most ppl. Personally, i only see worth in her 2. Phy bolts. 

Loki? His stealth and the fact he can run while its active.

but hey, ive infused Vial rush/Reave on my ivara, so i can work around that.

These frames need more then bandaid buffs on an amputated arm and call it a day.

 

 

Then there is another matter.

What when you got your sweet tooth from using these buffs for a week? when wukong reverts back to his regular statwise kit. 

I duno about you, but i will feel weak, less impactfull. That wont make me like a frame. It will make me feel like crap and i wont play that frame again most likely.

I will not partake in this system or its design decition route in the -slightest-. 

 

[(XBOX)KawaiiAsa]

I realise that it might be hard to implement or maybe you just don't want to for whatever reason... but change it so that we do get the xp from actions with our helminth that we've currently performed at level 10, because otherwise literally no-one will use it until the update comes out and people who have already subsumed every frame are gonna get really pissed (which they already have) since most of us are viewing it as being punished for using the system as intended.

If you can't, at least give us rewards for subsuming X amount of frames at rank 10 for being early adopters of the Helminth System, sorta like what you did when you changed Railjack costs (or more recently with Sevagoth, where people who owned him before finishing his quest for the first time got a riven alongside the other rewards). At the end of the day, I want the 54,400xp that was robbed from me when I subsumed those 34 warframes at max rank to be put into the helminth system when the update comes around (yes, that is how much xp has been lost if you subsumed every frame), or want some sort of exclusive reward that only early adopters of the Helminth System will receive.

[BETAOPTICS]

On 2021-06-18 at 4:56 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Helminth Workshop FAQ: 

Does your Helminth Rank automatically increase when the new 5 Ranks are added?

- No. The new Invigorations will give XP/Affinity toward Helminth in addition to normal feeding and Subsume/Infusion actions! There won’t be any automatic rankups based on the current vs new Level Cap. 

I understand that the initial idea behind this was probably so that everyone would have something to work towards but this is just a bad idea, a terrible idea. A system where you literally can not subsume Warframes multiple times (not that you should want to anyway) and a system where the max rank can be achieved way before subsuming all Warframes into it, what this does is punish the early adopters of the system immensely simply for having actively engaged with the system while everyone else can continue their progression at a normal rate. In that kind of a system this decision is baffling to me.

[xXDeadsinxX]

18 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Now there's another option for those without an extra titania.

While true, it’s just plain lazy & unoriginal on DE’s part to just copy & paste it and put it onto the Helminth System, it’d honestly be better to have something more unique in its place instead of them just simply copying & pasting it.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

You need to compensate the people who already subsumed all their frames with the xp they are owed.

it’s incredibly scummy just taking away xp that is rightfully theirs just because they maxxed out the Helminth system early.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

7 minutes ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

While true, it’s just plain lazy & unoriginal on DE’s part to just copy & paste it and put it onto the Helminth System, it’d honestly be better to have something more unique in its place instead of them just simply copying & pasting it.

I disagree. People are using explosive weapons at an increased rate. It makes sense players at different stages have a way to play how they want. 

 

[T-Shark69]

On 2021-06-18 at 3:56 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

PARASITIC ARMOR (11)

Sacrifice Shields to reinforce Armor for a period of time

How about instead renaming it to Parasitic Defense : Tap once to sacrifice Shields for Armor. Hold it down to sacrifice Armor for Shields.

[xXDeadsinxX]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

I disagree. People are using explosive weapons at an increased rate. It makes sense players at different stages have a way to play how they want. 

 

Okay, but that doesn’t make it any less lazy on DE’s part. As a player, I’d rather have something unique & interesting in that specific Helminth Rank when I do eventually unlock it instead of just having an ability that already exists within the game.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

1 minute ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

Okay, but that doesn’t make it any less lazy on DE’s part. As a player, I’d rather have something unique & interesting in that specific Helminth Rank when I do eventually unlock it instead of just having an ability that already exists within the game.

I guess you'll have to settle for recognizing other people play the game as well. Not sure what to tell you, you're not gonna approve of every single thing in the game.

[Syahra]

I really love the helminth system and therefore put a lot or work and thought into it. It was more or less my main motivation to play (at least at the moment). It actually feels kinda bad to be retroactively punished to interact with and enjoy the system. And not to be able to use it for a month unless I crave some more punishment. Strange decision.

I'm sure there must be a way to check how many frames a player has subsumed ( I mean there has to be considering I've got all those lovely flowers stuck to my wall :D ) and at least add that bit of exp to the system. We'd still lose out on the exp for feeding and infusing, but to be honest I could comfortably live with that because it is something I can keep doing ad nauseum if I want. There is no way to get the exp for all my subsumed frames (unless you let those flowers produce seeds to put back into the helminth for the same exp the original frame gave) so it really feels like losing out to an early adopter/heavy user of the system.

[xXDeadsinxX]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

I guess you'll have to settle for recognizing other people play the game as well. Not sure what to tell you, you're not gonna approve of every single thing in the game.

I never said that I’m the center of the attention, many people in this thread including myself are saying that we have already have this ability in the game and with them adding it is lazy, unoriginal & already makes it obsolete to even have since we already have that ability that can already do that without even having to do the work to unlock the rank to get it.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

3 minutes ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

I never said that I’m the center of the attention, many people in this thread including myself are saying that we have already have this ability in the game and with them adding it is lazy, unoriginal & already makes it obsolete to even have since we already have that ability that can already do that without even having to do the work to unlock the rank to get it.

Do you have any replacements that coincidentally aren't just uber op aoe damage abilities?

[Damocles]

On 2021-06-18 at 9:56 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Are Invigoration options only chosen based on Warframes you own?

No, much like Arbitration Warframe Buffs, the Invigorations options are pulled from the entire roster. 

is there any doubt as to why Arbitrations are unpopular? Gamers play games because games give us a magical concept called CHOICE. We don't get CHOICE, if the CHOICE is CHOSEN for us instead of being OUR CHOICE. Yes this is a bonus system and anything given is a plus, but nobody is going to appreciate that lack of CHOICE being forced onto frames we don't want to play. If there was an option to guarantee your frame (beyond once per month being masked by the phrase 10 frames) this would be a good system. As it stands now, this is some sort of slot machine RNG for frames on top of slot machine RNG for stats. Rivens are harsh enough RNG, but at least those are permanent!!! and rerolled by CHOICE!!!

[ArachnidOverlord]

Defensive buffs I can't really see being much of an issue; even if they were permanent. It allows squishy frames to play at a higher level all the while building for things other than survivability.

I think that invigorations would actually work very well if they were purely defensive and permanent. 

Things like permanent +1500 armor or +750 shields or +2000 health wouldn't make a frames power ridiculous; but it would make a lot more frames able to survive in higher levels.

So no + crit chance or + power strength + range etc; because like everybody's saying it'd probably make recruit chat even worse for ridiculous expectations.

But in making frames exclusively tougher people would be able to build more for what they want instead of wasting so much space on survivability. This way there wouldn't be things that throw power or weapon damage out of whack aside from what could already be built

[xXDeadsinxX]

4 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Do you have any replacements that coincidentally aren't just uber op aoe damage abilities?

No I do not have any suggestions to replace it at this point of time, but people have already shown their distaste with the purposed ability from the devs, so it should not be that obviously.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

13 minutes ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

No I do not have any suggestions to replace it at this point of time, but people have already shown their distaste with the purposed ability from the devs, so it should not be that obviously.

People expressed their distaste with a lot of things (bramma, helminth roar etc) but the decision is up to DE.

[zaturalma2]

This is nice, but I can not watch your youtube videos, because I refuse to provide google with my credentials. Could you plesae post the videos on an actually usable platform please?

[xXDeadsinxX]

24 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

People expressed their distaste with a lot of things (bramma, helminth roar etc) but the decision is up to DE.

That certainly is true, it is ultimately up to DE whether or not they want to add it even with the feedback & responses that are given.

[master_of_destiny]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Well before I say anything else, I'll point out that my initial post was simply about the frames, not the frame-buff pairs. But anyway let's go.

Let's lay out the facts and assumptions:

• Fact: You will have one Offense buff type and 1 Utility/Defense buff type
  •  
• Assumption: There are only 3 buffs values in each buff type.
  • Reasonable, we need some numbers to work with
• Assumption: Only one of each buff type exists.
  •  
  • Source? The Workshop forum post and Workshop video make no indication that one of each buff type exists on a given week, only that you'll have one Offensive and one from the other two types. So you could very well end up with the second buff being from the Defensive type for each.

So looking at the permutations of buffs: I have 3 x 2 x 1 = 6 ways to arrange the first buff (Offensive buff) for a set of 3, assuming the same bonus can't appear twice (assumption on my part).
I have 6 different buffs for the second slot (3 in Defense, 3 in Utility, I can choose one from either). So I can arrange the second buff 6 x 5 x 4 = 120 different ways for a set of 3, assuming the same bonus can't appear twice, (assumption on my part again).
So that means I have 6 x 120 = 720 permutations of buffs for the 3 frames of the week.

I care about what unique sets of frames I see as I have accounted for the permutations of the buffs that can attached to the set of 3 frames.
For example:

  Excalibur        Grendel         Baruuk
Offense - 1    Offense - 2   Offense - 3
Defense - 1   Defense - 2   Defense - 3

is the same as

  Baruuk        Excalibur         Grendel
Offense - 3    Offense - 1   Offense - 2
Defense - 3   Defense - 1   Defense - 2

So I want the combinations of frames. nCr(47,3) = 16,215 combinations of frames, with each set of 3 frames having 720 buff permutations, for a total of 11,674,800 frame-buff pairs.

 

I don't see what warrants such hostility. If I'm wrong I'm wrong, don't need to be aggressive.

 

Amazing....you can cite why I said something as a fact, then question it.  Let me highlight why I said it was so.....because you apparently can't even keep an idea together for an explanation....let alone support your initial statement with simple examples.

 

I assume that there are 3 buffs in each type.  I stated it was an assumption.  You have to accept this, or deny it based on nothing.  Oh boy, DE releasing quarter baked info is special.  I'm going to assume you have the capability to agree with the premise of an assumption, though do say so if you aren't.  DE also cited an example where 3 buffs were listed....without indicating if they were linked.  Yeah.  This is a fundamental assumption...because if you don't make it then there's no math to do.  So yeah, assume 3 potential actual buff values, unlinked to one another, meaning each potential selection has 3 outcomes. 

 

Now....the point where you seem to swallow the insanity pill.  DE states there are three buff types.  YOU LINKED TO THEIR POST.  They state that each of these types will be  covered.  I then assume that there are 3 types of buffs.

 

Now the Idiot Argument.  I refer to it as such because you already made it....but refuse it.  Why permutations over combinations.  Let's use B-E-G again, with a Harrow in the mix added because you seem to not understand the difference because 3*2*1= 3+2+1 (because this is the edge case where they are equal).  Let's then explain the potential outcomes.  Remember that DE has fixed the appearance of 3 types of buffs.  For an example, let's fix the arbitrary assignment of these buffs at a value of 1.  Our outcomes are:

BO1-ED1-GS1; BO1-GD1-ES1; BO1-HD1-GS1; BO1-GD1-HS1; BO1-HD1-ES1; BO1-ED1-HS1; 

EO1-BD1-GS1; EO1-GD1-BS1; EO1-HD1-GS1; EO1-GD1-HS1; EO1-HD1-BS1; EO1-BD1-HS1; 

GO1-ED1-BS1; GO1-BD1-ES1; GO1-HD1-BS1; GO1-BD1-HS1; GO1-HD1-ES1; GO1-ED1-HS1;

HO1-ED1-GS1; HO1-GD1-ES1; HO1-BD1-GS1; HO1-GD1-BS1; HO1-BD1-ES1; HO1-ED1-BS1 

Do you see yet?  Let me explain one more time.  The are the potential outcomes assuming that you have a fixed bonus type and bonus value.  In practice p_{warframe choice}*1*1.  Note that I've highlighted all of the B-E-G permutations.  Note also that line to line you substitute only one frame for another.  That is to say, line 2 switches Ember and Baruuk.  Line three is line one, with Grendel and Baruuk switched.  Line four is Harrow and Baruuk switched.  Note also I added a fourth frame, but instead of increasing by 4 ((4+3+2+1)-(3+2+1)) we've actually added 18 (4*3*2*1-3*2*1 = 24-6 = 18) potential setups.

LET'S EXPLAIN PERMUTATIONS VERSUS COMBINATIONS THEN.

 

Do you get it?  I'm really asking at this point, because if we need to go further there are going to have to be pictures. I'd also like to retract my earlier removal of a *3 factor in the mix.  It is actually *3*3*3.  There are 3 values, with 3 level, that are independent.  Imagining this on a cube, our outcomes are in fact

1-1-1; 1-2-1; 1-1-2; 1-2-2; 1-2-3; 1-3-2; 1-3-3; 1-3-1; 1-1-3;

2-1-1; 2-2-1; 2-1-2; 2-2-2; 2-2-3; 2-3-2; 2-3-3; 2-3-1; 2-1-3;

1-1-1; 1-2-1; 1-1-2; 1-2-2; 1-2-3; 1-3-2; 1-3-3; 3-3-1; 3-1-3;

This is also a question of permutations....because 3-1-3 and 3-3-1 will not be the same in practice.  That's kind of how the whole fixed 3 types things works.

 

 

 

So, we're back to me being right on step one.  About 2 millions combinations.  This assumes that you have 3 buff types (as DE stated).  It assumes 3 buff levels for each type, because there is no information that contradicts and they're inept in providing enough data.  It assumes 46 warframes, because that is what we have now.  It doesn't assume a new frame will be added in...because unsurprisingly that is going to skew the combinations even higher.  

Of course, you keep beating that ignorant drum.  I'm interested to see how far it gets you.  I'm also interested if you play the lottery.  Remember, the chances there are kind of fun.  With a pool of 70 numbers, your chances to pick each do not depend on order.  Your chance of choosing the 5 is thus (5/70)*(4/69)*(3/68)*(2/67)*(1/66) = 5!/(70*69*68*67*66).  That of course is a combination select, whereas if the order mattered like it will here, your chance would be 1/(70*69*68*67*66).  

DID YOU CATCH THAT?  WHEN ORDER MATTERS, LIKE WITH A SELECTION OF BUFFS WHICH EACH HAVE TO EXIST, YOU USE A PERMUTATION CALCULATION????

 

 

Why, it's almost like I set about stating all of these assumptions when we started.  Why would I have done that?

 

Snark over.  I'm done.  You either get it, or need to go back to 6th grade.  I'm not sure which....and common core sucks lemons, so maybe it'd be a higher level at this point.

[-ShadowRadiance-]

1 hour ago, master_of_destiny said:

 

Amazing....you can cite why I said something as a fact, then question it.  Let me highlight why I said it was so.....because you apparently can't even keep an idea together for an explanation....let alone support your initial statement with simple examples.

 

I assume that there are 3 buffs in each type.  I stated it was an assumption.  You have to accept this, or deny it based on nothing.  Oh boy, DE releasing quarter baked info is special.  I'm going to assume you have the capability to agree with the premise of an assumption, though do say so if you aren't.  DE also cited an example where 3 buffs were listed....without indicating if they were linked.  Yeah.  This is a fundamental assumption...because if you don't make it then there's no math to do.  So yeah, assume 3 potential actual buff values, unlinked to one another, meaning each potential selection has 3 outcomes. 

 

Now....the point where you seem to swallow the insanity pill.  DE states there are three buff types.  YOU LINKED TO THEIR POST.  They state that each of these types will be  covered.  I then assume that there are 3 types of buffs.

 

Now the Idiot Argument.  I refer to it as such because you already made it....but refuse it.  Why permutations over combinations.  Let's use B-E-G again, with a Harrow in the mix added because you seem to not understand the difference because 3*2*1= 3+2+1 (because this is the edge case where they are equal).  Let's then explain the potential outcomes.  Remember that DE has fixed the appearance of 3 types of buffs.  For an example, let's fix the arbitrary assignment of these buffs at a value of 1.  Our outcomes are:

BO1-ED1-GS1; BO1-GD1-ES1; BO1-HD1-GS1; BO1-GD1-HS1; BO1-HD1-ES1; BO1-ED1-HS1; 

EO1-BD1-GS1; EO1-GD1-BS1; EO1-HD1-GS1; EO1-GD1-HS1; EO1-HD1-BS1; EO1-BD1-HS1; 

GO1-ED1-BS1; GO1-BD1-ES1; GO1-HD1-BS1; GO1-BD1-HS1; GO1-HD1-ES1; GO1-ED1-HS1;

HO1-ED1-GS1; HO1-GD1-ES1; HO1-BD1-GS1; HO1-GD1-BS1; HO1-BD1-ES1; HO1-ED1-BS1 

Do you see yet?  Let me explain one more time.  The are the potential outcomes assuming that you have a fixed bonus type and bonus value.  In practice p_{warframe choice}*1*1.  Note that I've highlighted all of the B-E-G permutations.  Note also that line to line you substitute only one frame for another.  That is to say, line 2 switches Ember and Baruuk.  Line three is line one, with Grendel and Baruuk switched.  Line four is Harrow and Baruuk switched.  Note also I added a fourth frame, but instead of increasing by 4 ((4+3+2+1)-(3+2+1)) we've actually added 18 (4*3*2*1-3*2*1 = 24-6 = 18) potential setups.

LET'S EXPLAIN PERMUTATIONS VERSUS COMBINATIONS THEN.

 

Do you get it?  I'm really asking at this point, because if we need to go further there are going to have to be pictures. I'd also like to retract my earlier removal of a *3 factor in the mix.  It is actually *3*3*3.  There are 3 values, with 3 level, that are independent.  Imagining this on a cube, our outcomes are in fact

1-1-1; 1-2-1; 1-1-2; 1-2-2; 1-2-3; 1-3-2; 1-3-3; 1-3-1; 1-1-3;

2-1-1; 2-2-1; 2-1-2; 2-2-2; 2-2-3; 2-3-2; 2-3-3; 2-3-1; 2-1-3;

1-1-1; 1-2-1; 1-1-2; 1-2-2; 1-2-3; 1-3-2; 1-3-3; 3-3-1; 3-1-3;

This is also a question of permutations....because 3-1-3 and 3-3-1 will not be the same in practice.  That's kind of how the whole fixed 3 types things works.

 

 

 

So, we're back to me being right on step one.  About 2 millions combinations.  This assumes that you have 3 buff types (as DE stated).  It assumes 3 buff levels for each type, because there is no information that contradicts and they're inept in providing enough data.  It assumes 46 warframes, because that is what we have now.  It doesn't assume a new frame will be added in...because unsurprisingly that is going to skew the combinations even higher.  

Of course, you keep beating that ignorant drum.  I'm interested to see how far it gets you.  I'm also interested if you play the lottery.  Remember, the chances there are kind of fun.  With a pool of 70 numbers, your chances to pick each do not depend on order.  Your chance of choosing the 5 is thus (5/70)*(4/69)*(3/68)*(2/67)*(1/66) = 5!/(70*69*68*67*66).  That of course is a combination select, whereas if the order mattered like it will here, your chance would be 1/(70*69*68*67*66).  

DID YOU CATCH THAT?  WHEN ORDER MATTERS, LIKE WITH A SELECTION OF BUFFS WHICH EACH HAVE TO EXIST, YOU USE A PERMUTATION CALCULATION????

 

 

Why, it's almost like I set about stating all of these assumptions when we started.  Why would I have done that?

 

Snark over.  I'm done.  You either get it, or need to go back to 6th grade.  I'm not sure which....and common core sucks lemons, so maybe it'd be a higher level at this point.

Hey, i failed math and lots of subjects in school, but even i understood this.

And now my head hurts*

Urgh i hate numbers.