Helminth Grows a New Appetite: 30.5 Update!

[(PSN)RWalls91]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)RuTweN said:

While arsenal had a follow-up topic, the helmith changes didn’t…Somebody really wanted these changes to go through and I can just hope that more and more people understnd that DE is no longer the unicorn that we once knew.

Gatcha is the future….100 plat that by the end of the year invigorations will have a plat cost hidden somewhere(besides the upfront one of getting slots for all the warframes)

Over 100 pages of feedback on the arsenal divide and the follow up post, and pretty much the only thing they acknowledged was that the mods coming from steel path so you could use in steel path was daft logic, so they moved them to arbitrations. Everything else I think from 137 pages across all workshop posts has been completely ignored, and they've gone and sent it to cert regardless of how we feel. Not to mention all the other threads that have been made around the subject.

When the developer doesn't seem to care, then why should the player base care? Doesn't matter how good the game is if you anger your player base.

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

12 minutes ago, (PSN)RuTweN said:

While arsenal had a follow-up topic, the helmith changes didn’t…Somebody really wanted these changes to go through and I can just hope that more and more people understnd that DE is no longer the unicorn that we once knew.

Gatcha is the future….100 plat that by the end of the year invigorations will have a plat cost hidden somewhere(besides the upfront one of getting slots for all the warframes)

Well I am not liking this direction whatsoever. I can take melee nerfs, but these invigorations just feel so wrong.

[Myscho]

I subsumed all frames to Helminth, so am i screwed ? Because i wont get XP from them ? 

[Bigbluedragon]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Myscho:

I subsumed all frames to Helminth, so am i screwed ? Because i wont get XP from them ? 

It seams like yes you are. And I'm as well and everyone else and at the moment we don't even get stuff for doing that.

[(PSN)RuTweN]

1 hour ago, (PSN)RWalls91 said:

Over 100 pages of feedback on the arsenal divide and the follow up post, and pretty much the only thing they acknowledged was that the mods coming from steel path so you could use in steel path was daft logic, so they moved them to arbitrations. Everything else I think from 137 pages across all workshop posts has been completely ignored, and they've gone and sent it to cert regardless of how we feel. Not to mention all the other threads that have been made around the subject.

When the developer doesn't seem to care, then why should the player base care? Doesn't matter how good the game is if you anger your player base.

If only they would have used those test servers… those test servers are used just as PR…Now everything that matters is Tennocon…

You have to grind 5 ranks by infusing one ability because you aready subdumed everything?…check our amazing tennocon merch

Why bother making a dev WORKSHOP if the decision ia taken…Is like arguing if you should eat something after finishing eating  it.

[(XBOX)LunarDreamer]

How about instead of buffs to the warframe, how about affecting rewards? 

50% chance of getting C Rotation reward on an A rotation. 

25% chance of getting double mission reward. 

Credits are applied to bonus affinity. 

Unused affinity is converted to credits. 

Some sort of drop table manipulation.

Honestly, it's not a terrible idea to give us reasons to play forgotten frames. But random buffs like the ones listed are either not at all needed in the majority of the game or will be far exploited in the comparative standings. Reward buffs will be used throughout the game and won't affect the players ability. Further more, playing a frame with buffed stats is cool, but once the buff is gone it just makes you feel cheated.

[Alpha56]

Le 18/06/2021 à 15:56, [DE]Rebecca a dit :

Helminth Workshop FAQ: 

Does your Helminth Rank automatically increase when the new 5 Ranks are added?

- No. The new Invigorations will give XP/Affinity toward Helminth in addition to normal feeding and Subsume/Infusion actions! There won’t be any automatic rankups based on the current vs new Level Cap. 

 

Please change that, players that invest time and effort shouldn't be penalized.

[Joezone619]

On 2021-06-18 at 9:56 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

To give players some control over what will be very powerful buffs, the Helminth takes note of your interactions - for every 10 Invigorations you do, you’ll be able to Select what Warframe receives the next buff! 

Just to be clear here, this means you get "some control" over what frame is buffed roughly 5-8 times per year (not exact) assuming you've been invigorating every single frame every single week.

[Roble_Viejo]

En 18/6/2021 a las 10:56, [DE]Rebecca dijo:

GOLDEN INSTINCT (15)

Send out a short-lived Void Spark that is drawn toward the nearest Medallion, Ayatan Sculpture, unscanned Kuria or unscanned Fragment.

Please tell me this affects Rare Containers!!! 

I haven't got a single Captura Scene from Earth... 
And I've been running CataLimbo and BoomXaku like crazy.
With the Scanner Equipped, looking all over the place.

No Rare Containers since they introduced those Capturas :'( 

[-Augustus-]

17 hours ago, Alpha56 said:

players that invest time and effort shouldn't be penalized.

But will anyway, because why put any effort into figuring out the XP associated with subsuming all frames and minimum feeds required to do so, when you can just ignore the issue.

[Cyv001]

Temporary warframe rivens? No retroactive XP for those of us that have subsumed every warframe? What's going on?

[(PSN)RuTweN]

On 2021-07-02 at 8:28 PM, Joezone619 said:

Just to be clear here, this means you get "some control" over what frame is buffed roughly 5-8 times per year (not exact) assuming you've been invigorating every single frame every single week.

It’s an overall bad design if you have a weekly rotation…you are being punished:

-If you’re playing 2-3 warframes you have to rely on the rng or invigorate frames for the sake of it

-If you don’t have all the frames and want to invigorate your favorite frame…RNG or refarm everything

-If you missed the week your favorite frame was in rotation.

It will take months to get what you want and you have it just for a week.

The sistem doesn’t give power, it gives the illusion of power at the cost of refarming again all the warframes and logging in weekly.

It’s also a idiot design due to buffs :200% melee damage,200%strenght?

Raw stats won’t help badly designed warframes.And to be honest here 200%melee damage in the same patch as melee nerf.

DE just found a farming loop to extend the grind with this atrocity.

The same way they’ve been pumping open worlds each year they will now pump helmith updates so that players have to refarm all the frames over and over again.

I joped that the feedback was heard and this system gets forgotten and remains a bad joke but i guess the Design council think at the revenue rather than the game

 

[Daiwulf]

Luckly I didn't go all out with helminth and was only rank9, and this week with 2 subsumes I got to rank10, so I'm holding frames in the foundry to stockpile helminth subsume xp when the update launches, but it must really hurt for the players who missed all the subsume xp.

As for the buffs, I'd rather have a daily buff instead of a weekly one, simply because:

- If it's for a frame I play a lot, it will be good

- If it's for a task-specific frame (chroma Profit-Taker, saryn ESO, revenant Index), I won't play that mode the whole week, maybe just 1~3 days. If it would be daily, today I could focus in farming that mode and tomorrow move on to another thing

- If it's for 3 frames I don't play and have no clear task-specific role, I might give it a shot in the first day, but would let it gather dust the remaining 6 days. Daily, it would mean today I will be playing a dusted frame and tomorrow I could give a shot to another one.

- If it's for 3 frames I don't have, it's just fodder for the premium invigoration, and for 1 week the system won't exist for me. Being daily, I would only skip the system for 24h, so it would be way less boring

[Ianto]

On 2021-06-18 at 2:56 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Helminth Workshop FAQ: 

Does your Helminth Rank automatically increase when the new 5 Ranks are added?

- No. The new Invigorations will give XP/Affinity toward Helminth in addition to normal feeding and Subsume/Infusion actions! There won’t be any automatic rankups based on the current vs new Level Cap

Come on guys. We know you have extremely detailed info on subsumes. You know exactly what has been subsumed, what's been replaced and when. 
You have shown us this data on streams before. 

I really can't see any reason not to run a script for the players who have already invested a lot of time in your system, so that they aren't punished for having already played the game you have made.

Subsuming frames is a gigantic part of levelling the system and you designed it so that the progress can't be repeated by the same means again. If it was just a matter of farming more resources and wasting time that would be annoying, but at least there would be a workaround. In this instance you are needlessly creating an early adopter tax for some of your most committed customers.

 

[DarknessNightshade]

On 2021-07-01 at 7:06 PM, Myscho said:

I subsumed all frames to Helminth, so am i screwed ? Because i wont get XP from them ? 

According to Rebecca's post, this is the case, the only way you'll be able to gain exp from subsuming is when Lareli drops or whatever her name is.

Or by feeding your helminth after infusing your warframe with abilities, and then feeding your helminth, over and over again, which is incredibly resource intensive.

There's no way to retroactively let you subsume warframes again without removing abilities you've already unlocked, theoretically, the easiest way seems to be to just let people use the EXP they've gained over the top of their 10 levels, which Rebecca has confirmed won't happen.

 

[Graavarg]

So we'll se tomorrow.

I'm nicely chill with everything, since I'll start playing more actively again as soon as we get more riven slots (which doesn't seem to be the case with 30.5). And there is a really nice summer going on outside as well. On the other hand, if DE includes more slots I might have to revisit my plans for this summer...  all those Tenet weapons... ouch!

Anyway, it is going to be interesting to see how DE actually solves everything.

[Incongruous]

So you're not rewarding players that have already subsumed all warframes? Wow, that's a new low.

On 2021-07-04 at 10:48 AM, (PSN)RuTweN said:

(...)

DE just found a farming loop to extend the grind with this atrocity.

The same way they’ve been pumping open worlds each year they will now pump helmith updates so that players have to refarm all the frames over and over again.

I joped that the feedback was heard and this system gets forgotten and remains a bad joke but i guess the Design council think at the revenue rather than the game

More or less my thoughts.
Why is this even a thing, DE?

[(XBOX)DemVocalSkillz]

I have subsumed every warframe currently in game...how am i to get the new levels for helminth...if could take forever 😫

[LillyRaccune]

17 minutes ago, (XBOX)DemVocalSkillz said:

I have subsumed every warframe currently in game...how am i to get the new levels for helminth...if could take forever 😫

you get helminth XP from sticking abilities onto frames. so all you need to do pick the cheapest to inject ability (or any ability) and brainlessly inject and erase and feed over and over again until you level up your Helminth.

obviously DE doesn't want to include those abilities onto the new helminth segment that we will be forced to buy. they also refuse to retroactively grant the xp we gained after max-ranking our helminth, because they would need to write a comprehensive script and run it across all platforms.

Info from https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Helminth#Metamorphosis

Quote

Injecting an ability	8xp per 1% used material
Feeding the Helminth	~6.66 xp per percent gained:

Better start hoarding food for the hungry, hungry chair monster!

[Zedar451]

On 2021-07-04 at 3:48 AM, (PSN)RuTweN said:

It’s an overall bad design if you have a weekly rotation…you are being punished:

-If you’re playing 2-3 warframes you have to rely on the rng or invigorate frames for the sake of it

-If you don’t have all the frames and want to invigorate your favorite frame…RNG or refarm everything

-If you missed the week your favorite frame was in rotation.

It will take months to get what you want and you have it just for a week.

The sistem doesn’t give power, it gives the illusion of power at the cost of refarming again all the warframes and logging in weekly.

It’s also a idiot design due to buffs :200% melee damage,200%strenght?

Raw stats won’t help badly designed warframes.And to be honest here 200%melee damage in the same patch as melee nerf.

DE just found a farming loop to extend the grind with this atrocity.

The same way they’ve been pumping open worlds each year they will now pump helmith updates so that players have to refarm all the frames over and over again.

I joped that the feedback was heard and this system gets forgotten and remains a bad joke but i guess the Design council think at the revenue rather than the game

 

I'm no big fan of these invigorations, but I think you've misunderstood how they work. You don't have to sacrifice the frame each time you activate the invigoration. You just need to interact with helminth using that frame. Frames can only be sacrificed to helminth once anyway, so what you're describing is currently impossible.

[(PSN)RuTweN]

 

33 minutes ago, Zedar451 said:

I'm no big fan of these invigorations, but I think you've misunderstood how they work. You don't have to sacrifice the frame each time you activate the invigoration. You just need to interact with helminth using that frame. Frames can only be sacrificed to helminth once anyway, so what you're describing is currently impossible.

 

Sorry if i created confussion, i was reffering to invigorate said warframe you need to have them first.

If you had the warframes and sacrificied them for helmith…it’s back to farming another set to make sure you keep your invigorations up

To get to the 10th invigoration faster you need to have all the frames at the same time to reduce the chance of missing invigoration that translates in warframe slots + refarming all the annoying warframes

[DTAOAE]

Only I feel that the new features will be very interesting, so that some less commonly used armor will get new opportunities?

[(XBOX)Th3BelovedSaint]

On 2021-07-03 at 8:21 PM, Cyv001 said:

Temporary warframe rivens? No retroactive XP for those of us that have subsumed every warframe? What's going on?

I believe I begin to see why DE is penalizing us players who have already subsumed all frames. Seems like they are tying the subsuming of 10 frames to the ability to pick which frame gets buffed next. Poor planning on their part. If they were going to do this, they should have told us not to subsume a frame past reaching rank 10 helminth. Again, those that play the game and adopt a game mechanic early get hosed over.

[(XBOX)Th3BelovedSaint]

DE, I have faithfully played Warframe since 2016. I have always been, what you call, an early adopter. I built our clans Dry Dock, Crimson Branch and my Railjack before you had even fixed the initial set of bugs in the Emperian system. Likewise, I supported the Helminth system when you dropped it. Many of your most dedicated players did likewise. The thanks we get for using the Helminth system to its full capacity is now found to be "Suckerrrrrrrrrrrrs!" Each subsumed frame is a one-shot. We cannot resubsume the frame. subsuming a frame is the most efficient way of ranking the Helminth. All of us who fully supported and actually used the Helminth system are being, essentially, hosed over. Telling the most dedicated segment of you player base "Take off, Hosers" is not the way to successfully launch a new Helminth segment. I, for one, will not use it as you have described it because what if I do use it as described only to find out down the road that "Gee, thanks Guys, but you know what? You arent getting credit for all the work you have done. But, thanks anyway." Seriously, if those of us who have already subsumed all our frames are not getting credit in the new segment for them, I hope this additional Helminth expansion gets all the participation and support that the Conclave enjoys. I know that is how frequently I intend to use it.  On top of all this, Looks like you are intent on nuking melee into the ground. Your stated intent was "A few minor nerfs" looks like you intend to make melle painful to use, especially on Steel Path. Hoping the Sisters part of the update has some fun aspects to it. Right now, it looks like that will be the only fun addition to the game. Actually, the only true addition. Helminth "Invigorations" and melee nukes are both huge take aways. Poorly thought out and poorly implemented.

 

[Zedar451]

9 hours ago, (PSN)RuTweN said:

 

 

Sorry if i created confussion, i was reffering to invigorate said warframe you need to have them first.

If you had the warframes and sacrificied them for helmith…it’s back to farming another set to make sure you keep your invigorations up

To get to the 10th invigoration faster you need to have all the frames at the same time to reduce the chance of missing invigoration that translates in warframe slots + refarming all the annoying warframes

You're still misunderstanding. You don't have to keep farming the frame to keep your invigorations up. All you have to do is interact with helminth with that frame if the system rolled a buff for the frame that week.