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Helminth Grows a New Appetite: 30.5 Update!


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Invigoration's are HORRIBLE, please please remove this ASAP, instead of giving us random power creep for frames which can Divide Matchmaking and ruin the COOP experience, rework the underused frames instead and offer some interesting mechanics and stat buffs instead of this RNGness.
We are DANGEROUSLY Close to Rivens for frames. This is NOT good. REVERT ASAP

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5 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Tenno,

The Helminth System is being expanded in the Sisters of Parvos Update. This system has been quite popular with players who really enjoy deep customization, so we’re doing 2 things:

- Adding 5 more Ranks and 5 new ‘Helminth’ Abilities.
- Adding a new system: INVIGORATIONS!

You can watch a video explanation as part of our Video Dev Workshop:

 

 

 


 

Age restriction on Warframe DEV workshop videos? wtf is wrong with y'all? im not gonna give YT my bank informations. so im not gonna watch these, ever. if i could give downvotes i would do so right now

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5 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Helminth Workshop FAQ: 

Does your Helminth Rank automatically increase when the new 5 Ranks are added?

- No. The new Invigorations will give XP/Affinity toward Helminth in addition to normal feeding and Subsume/Infusion actions! There won’t be any automatic rankups based on the current vs new Level Cap. 

I'm sorry, but that's not acceptable at all. What you're saying here is that we've done ourselves a disservice by putting in time and effort to subsume frames - many of whose abilities we likely have not used. You are punishing us for having engaged the system enough to complete it prior to additional ranks.

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1 minute ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

I'm sorry, but that's not acceptable at all. What you're saying here is that we've done ourselves a disservice by putting in time and effort to subsume frames - many of whose abilities we likely have not used. You are punishing us for having engaged the system enough to complete it prior to additional ranks.

i installed the segment, yet never used Helminth at all. and probably never will. especiaylly not after just reading fellow Tenno's backlash about the new additions / changes

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The new abilities seem like they could be fun, depending on the numbers. We'll have to see.

I'm really commenting to be another person throwing in the "Invigorations are a terrible idea." opinion because I feel the community really needs to shut this down.

I don't think there will be much in the way of "You can't join our squad because your buffs for the week aren't for frames we want." There just isn't enough content with the kind of difficulty for highly specialized squads. Maybe the tridolon speedrunners will care, but that's about it.

Still, this is an addition that will feel wholly bad. I don't want to have rng determine what my most powerful frames will be every week. The diversity of my options is one of my favorite things about Warframe, and it would be nice to see a reason to pick up my less used frames, this isn't it. Players prefer some frames over others. It's a matter of personal style and preference. I don't find Rhino fun. It's not that he's a bad frame. No amount of power strength is going to change that he's not my style. If we get a bad run of luck, this will be a system we wholly ignore until we can pick an actual personal favorite every ~3 weeks. This is just going to discourage player choice most of the time. Furthermore, if your Helminth gives you bonuses to meta frames, you're actively being discouraged to vary your playstyle.

Besides the randomness of it, The bizarre effect it will have on clan ranking in events, and that I fully expect the effects to need many nerfs (further reducing the community's desire to use less powerful frames), my main beef with this whole thing is that It's so clearly another attempt to never have to modernize older frames and buff abilities that need it. I hoped with the addition of Helminth, DE would be using the stats to find what abilities needed attention, and better focus on giving much needed love to them. With invigorations, it's pretty clear that Helminth is just the easier alternative to real reworks, and one that pressures players to use the same 3 frames for a whole week.

This is absolutely not where the game needs to go. People will be fine if occasionally there's a mainline update with a rework instead of a new frame. A lot of us will really appreciate it. Properly fix our old favorites. Don't let the performance of our frames based on rng, especially not for an entire week.

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The new abilities are not appealing to me, I think the function that Golden Instinct offers is interesting theoretically but its in a very strange place in terms of player progression. I wouldn't use it, I'm way to deep into the progression myself, but I can see it being useful for mid-game players.

Invigorations are strange. I don't mind it really, but I don't see myself using it much. as most things, it will make the great frames greater and it will be fun to mess around with the absurd stats at times.

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5 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

No. The new Invigorations will give XP/Affinity toward Helminth in addition to normal feeding and Subsume/Infusion actions! There won’t be any automatic rankups based on the current vs new Level Cap. 

While I haven't subsumed everything this kinda sucks for people that already subsumed everything and probably would have the XP to get them at least 4 levels. Maybe that's why you're not adding the XP cause you guys don't want people maxed on day one

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This sounds pretty cool!

Invigorations, I think, are a cool concept. We have a big roster of options in Warframe and I frequently pass over of a lot of them -- even ones I enjoy -- simply because there are so many options. This new suggested feature will incentivize players to visit/revisit the overall roster, much in the same way Arbitrations do. I really like Arbitrations as they set my brain going with how to build for a certain challenge within certain parameters, incentivized in-game by a massive Strength modifier.

However, the example numbers for Invigorations have me concerned. An extra 300% Strength in Arbitrations is fine and doesn't break anything, because even though it's ridiculously strong it's also self-contained and fleeting. Once that mission is done, that buff is gone. Having a similarly intense boost applied to a Warframe for all content and for an entire week sounds like too much to me. Something like,

5 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Excalibur: 250% Melee Damage and 75% power Efficiency

 would certainly create incentive for players to play Excal for the week, but I think this is just too much incentive. With that amount of power baked into this feature, it could easily turn into a large contingent of players feeling obligated to play their three Invigorated frames (and only those three) each week. Especially if doing so fast-tracks them to a week with their super-buffed nuke frame of choice. And while a huge dose of power will get players falling in love with long-lost Warframes, having such a huge difference between baseline and Invigorated frames will probably result in many players quickly falling back out love when those buffs wear off.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sold on the idea of random, rotating buffs to different Warframes. This would get me to diversify my play choices, for sure. But I don't need Arbitration-level buffs to get me to do so, and I really don't think the game needs the injection of that much power. I think it'd be sitting in a good spot if Invigorations were about 1/4 to 1/3 of the example intensities given. Excal with +60% melee damage and +15% power Efficiency sells me on playing more Excal this week. Excal with +250% melee damage and capped Efficiency makes me worried.

Edited by SenorClipClop
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14 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Does your Helminth Rank automatically increase when the new 5 Ranks are added?

- No. The new Invigorations will give XP/Affinity toward Helminth in addition to normal feeding and Subsume/Infusion actions! There won’t be any automatic rankups based on the current vs new Level Cap. 

Am I not reading this properly, or are you punishing early adopters for maxing-out their Helminths already?

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I just wish the abilities did something physical. Like hey this one does a fire blast, or summons a wave of energy that stuns, or just you know, something. Most of them just give you a buff, I want original abilities that are actually fun to use and look cool. Not just stat tweaks, buffing armor, refilling shields, hacking consoles,

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Lol the people in here with magic balls to see the future that hate fun. 

No one recruits for arbitration based on what buffs players get on what frames from it. 

I fail to see how this update will all of a sudden make every recruiter demand someone have a specific randomized buff. 

I'll take that 300% power strength volt and run at light speed! 

Maybe reducing the power strength buff from this system will please the people here who have the ability to see the future.  or just stop trying to make every single person happy at the expense of others enjoyment.  the system isn't even here yet. 

 

Edit:  make it so the strength buff only affects you while in steel path, could also be a option I guess. 

Edited by wizardeiges
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If Invigorations are curated so we arent always seeing 200% power strength Saryns, i dont see this as a bad thing. Hopefully the buffs address weaknesses in a frame, and not just about making a Frame even more OP for a week. Like, Maybe Excalibur doesnt need melee strength, but would be fun with a huge range buff. 

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6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

INTRODUCING: INVIGORATIONS

 

Son has been busy developing new bio-technologies for Helminth. Visit SON in the Necralisk on DEIMOS to obtain the New Segment required to upgrade your Helminth to perform a new operation: Invigorations! 


Our main objective with this system expansion is really simple: give players a way to engage with Warframes they may not have used in a while!


Here’s how it will work:
 

Every week, your Helminth will have an Affinity toward 3 Random Warframes. You can interact with Helminth with these Warframes to gain select Weekly Buffs (one Offensive and one Utility/Defense)! For example:

 

Zephyr: 200% Power Strength and Immune To Status
Atlas: 200% Primary Critical Chance and +1000 Armor
Excalibur: 250% Melee Damage and 75% power Efficiency

 

These will be drawn randomly per player. Tenno can check their Helminth during the Weekly reset to see what Invigorations are available for the week. Once you infuse the Invigoration, it lasts the week before the power of the Helminth wears off. 

This is honestly appalling. Warframes do not need randomization added to their output.

With Invigorations, you guys have also cemented future Operation scores to be reliant on how lucky you are with your randomized Helminth buffs to gain an edge over other Tenno.

There's a damn good reason nobody wants Warframe Riven Mods DE, and you guys just completely missed why that is.

It is truly baffling how disconnected you've become with not only the players, but your own product as well. People have been complaining for 5 years now about Riven Mods, why their mechanics feel bad, and yet you still stick your head in the sand and release mechanics like this. It's disheartening for players who stick with you for years when you continue to degrade this game with additions like these.

Edited by Voltage
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47 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Helminth Workshop FAQ: 

Does your Helminth Rank automatically increase when the new 5 Ranks are added?

- No. The new Invigorations will give XP/Affinity toward Helminth in addition to normal feeding and Subsume/Infusion actions! There won’t be any automatic rankups based on the current vs new Level Cap.

Well that's just disrespectful...

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6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Does your Helminth Rank automatically increase when the new 5 Ranks are added?

- No. The new Invigorations will give XP/Affinity toward Helminth in addition to normal feeding and Subsume/Infusion actions! There won’t be any automatic rankups based on the current vs new Level Cap. 

Not a fan of this.  Feels like a punishment for those who already had gotten through all of the frame subsuming, and had we know this was coming I would have held off on doing some of the frames I recently got the second one of as that was just wasted XP now. I understand tracking the feeding might me more difficult but since we can only subsume one each frame it can't check and give us the XP for those at least?

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In short invigorations are basically Arbitration buff you can take outside Arbitration’s  temp buffs on top of permanent is not a bad concept. 
 

you all have the real disconnect you had years to tell them what you want and make it reasonable and you haven’t don’t it still so DE is doing what’s best.

because you been stagnant by keep a stance that doesn’t help the game at all 

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6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Helminth Workshop FAQ: 

Do you have any plans for buffing/reworking underused Helminth-only abilities?

Should all frames really have access to a 95% slow aura through Helminth? Seems a bit too strong to me, seeing as abilities like Larva and Defy have had their Helminth versions nerfed. With the upcoming 50% Strength Parazon mod, Protea will be able to hit max slow with Growing Power alone!

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59 minutes ago, LULAWS said:

Now that... I don't really have much of an idea of how it'll play out, other than randomly making endurance farmers and people who like playing with Void fissure buffs on their Warframes very happy with more numbers. All I can say at the moment is that I hope this is actively looked into by the dev team for a couple months, instead of being left as-is after a few weeks like the rest of the Helminth system.

Cant wait to see what my 5k% Total Eclipse or 1k% roar nidus can get up to after this update drops.

 😆

Spoiler

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Regarding "Golden Instinct," how much range is it going to have? Orb Vallis is bloody HUGE-and-a-half, but it is chock full of lore fragments from the fine folk of Fortuna. And those at least are in static locations. Good luck trying to find the randomly spawned Somachord fragments in any of the landscape zones.

 

Please, let the scanning range for this ability be infinite, even if the spark trail has limited duration.

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1 hour ago, Mujaki said:

Regarding "Golden Instinct," how much range is it going to have? Orb Vallis is bloody HUGE-and-a-half, but it is chock full of lore fragments from the fine folk of Fortuna. And those at least are in static locations. Good luck trying to find the randomly spawned Somachord fragments in any of the landscape zones.

 

Please, let the scanning range for this ability be infinite, even if the spark trail has limited duration.

Imo:

Remake this into an aura.

Every X sec, sends out a spark that costs X energy per spark to find treasure X. 

Since the sparks will die after a time, this just becomes a spam every X seconds ability anyway.

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I do not want the invigorations system.  Our lategame play would be dominated by what buffs most enable us to hyper-focus damage output, and then all things untouched by buffs would feel anemic and underwhelming.  

This system would immediately and permanently break all forms of leaderboards - whichever clan can coordinate enough people with The Good RNG just gets to win above all others.  Raids would similarly find themselves shaken heavily for balance when implemented, and I can imagine this doing some very unfair things to boss fights and eidolon hunts.  Just imagine another event like scarlet spear : 'OK equinox you get 200% power, wukong you get 200% primary crit for your bramma bot to enjoy, protea can enjoy this duration buff for her turrets, and Chroma, don't worry, we got you range.  Hold on, why is this one clan team blowing everyone else's scores completely out of the water?'

Do not implement this.  This is a bad idea.  I am mad about my nearly-complete collection of subsumed helminth abilities not retroactively applying XP, but the invigorations system seems like a blow to balance that the game would never truly recover from.

Edited by captainHalide
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