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Parazon Rework: 30.5 Update!


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Sorry to say this, but I still really wont care to use the Parazon. Enemies die too quickly and sometimes it's just impossible to notice that it's an option to use.

What you should have done is have the Parazon accumulate energy from kills and use that energy to kill any of the enemies you listed.

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I'm not going to go fully in-depth on my issues with the changes here, as I don't want to post walls of what people have already covered.
First and foremost, why are we limiting what enemies can be mercied, and even beyond that why to such a specific subset? Hyekka Masters, Napalms, Corpus Techs, those are simply three of the things that should be on that list but aren't. I love the idea that impact would finally get to see some use, then we might see less of the priority on -impact rivens in the market as well as impact weapons actually being viable in some manner. Second, as has been mentioned - a steel path bombard at level 400 has close to 160k health, which makes the 25k threshold approximately 15.6% of their maximum health...which is below the current 20% threshold either when using impact procs or not. 40% of this is still 64k health - which is one well-placed headshot even with the current performance of guns, that's without considering any slash or toxin procs that result from said shot (or are already in effect).

Don't get me wrong, I adore the idea of the parazon having more use. But to tie these things to a mechanic that is almost impossible to pull off in any public game, when the game is inherently public farming/play based...why? The way it works now is almost unusable outside of Liches or Larvlings, and the way it looks like it's going to work is going to severely limit even the edge cases when you can use it on heavies (those select few). I would highly recommend at the very least not limiting the function to them, as there's seemingly no reason to disallow mercies on weaker units. I can see why you'd want to exclude some enemies, like the Juggernaut or Treasurers - that makes sense and would be an acceptable choice. As things stand, the only things I look forward to about this rework is the new mods - and even they are more than a little underwhelming.

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Hmm, can't remember a single mercy kill apart from liches... I knew they existed, but in normal gameplay (especially together with others), mercy conditions never happen, because enemies get killed too fast. And enemies not getting killed but standing around invulnerable in groups (as happens already during lich encounters) doesn't sound too compelling to me either. Especially considering the fact, that those murmur bastards constantly do their stupid dash attack, that throws you to the ground, although they have been downded already beforehand. Imagine this sort of crap on every Eximus and heavy unit.... Omg!

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Love the Mercy kill system; it feels so satisfying to finish off a weakened enemy with a cool animation.

Quite eager to see how the changes play out. Are the little guys still susceptible to mercy kills? I may have missed if it was said whether they still were or if it's now only the big guys

edit: I like the reference to how the Corpus are mercy-able at higher health thresholds. It felt like I was getting a lot more mercy kills on the Grineer than the Corpus, and wasn't sure if it was just me or if that was actually a thing due to their actual health being smaller than the Grineer

Edited by (NSW)Greybones
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12 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

and the Energy could be yours!

You can plan and decide! 

This is the aspect of Warframe that always bugs me.... it would be nice if the Energy Would Be Ours....

Just sayin'.... It's kinda hard to form a plan or making decision around RNG....

12 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

After: Impact Status Effects increases the Mercy Kill threshold range on eligible enemies. So instead of triggering at 40% on the list above, you can apply Impact Status to do a Mercy kill sooner (4% per Status)… up to 80%. Meaning applying a lot of Impact Status quickly makes an enemy VIP more quickly susceptible to a Mercy Kill. Impact would then be a build strategy for getting the VIPs out of the fight!

Now that's much better 🙂 !!!

1 hour ago, Sammonoske said:

Sorry to say this, but I still really wont care to use the Parazon. Enemies die too quickly and sometimes it's just impossible to notice that it's an option to use.

They won't die so Quickly at Level 400.... Or just level 150 On Steel Path 😝...

1 hour ago, Sammonoske said:

 

What you should have done is have the Parazon accumulate energy from kills and use that energy to kill any of the enemies you listed.

Sort of like how the Heavy Attack gimmick works ? 🤔

53 minutes ago, iPathos said:

I would highly recommend at the very least not limiting the function to them, as there's seemingly no reason to disallow mercies on weaker units.

I can think of a good Reason... If the Mercy finisher procs on multiple enemies clustered together it would suck to waste that animation on a Grunt instead of an ancient.

 

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I dont' see why you shouldn't be able to mercy grunts, especially considering the slow animation.
I'm concerned everyone will see "faster mercies" and complain that they should be apart of the parazon's base  which would ruin the visuals. The way I see it parazon kills have to be slower because you're getting benifits from them than a regular kill, it's a tradeoff.
I also kinda wanted a stealth rework involving the parazon. Like multiple enemy stealth kills or chain stealth kills involving the parazon. Or arial stealth kills with the parazon. Stealth is in a bad place right now, where everyone relies on sleeping crowds of enemies, and only so they get boosted affinity for their tenno. It's not really fun And should be made an option again. Maybe intergrate enemy lines of sight as well so we can actually use our ninja skills to avoid enemies as well.
Also synicate companions should have silenced weapons and shouldn't alert enemies.

Edited by Tellmeninetails
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4 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

I can think of a good Reason... If the Mercy finisher procs on multiple enemies clustered together it would suck to waste that animation on a Grunt instead of an ancient.

If you're utilizing mercy and are incapable of either clearing the fodder or otherwise looking at the right prompt, then it highlights a bigger issue with the system - no?

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12 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Imagine you see a heavy gunner in the distance. You have “Blood for Energy” on your Parazon.  You see you need some Energy, so you start shooting the heavy gunner knowing full well once she’s at 40%, she will be open for a Mercy kill and the Energy could be yours!

If I have Blood for Energy, then I probably have Spoiler mode so I can use Zenurik's energizing dash. Assuming I'm not playing with a squad where someone has said Zenurik skill.

This kind of system could be great for new players whose energy economy isn't solid. But the mods that enable that are too late in the game to be useful to them.

Meanwhile, the players with those kind of mods are killing things so quickly that if they try to go for the Parazon finisher, a teammate is going to finish the job. Assuming the first player's sentinel doesn't.

Besides the accessibility of the system being hecka out of wack and leading to a vanishingly small usefulness area for the Parazon that may as well be non-existent, this system basically rips from DOOM (not a bad thing), and it's important to put the two into perspective. In DOOM, the TTK is high enough that you're able to close the distance and get a finisher kill at almost any range. And, indeed, it's usually better to do that, since the time it'd take to finish the job otherwise would be longer than the animation. It's that on top of the happy pinata goodies that burst from the slain bad boy that incentivize it.

But the TTK in Warframe is so low that any time short of instantaneous isn't fast enough. That's why the "kneel them" suggestion crops up with such regularity: you don't have to worry about "fast enough" if you're not in a race!

So:

1. Kneel them. Don't be afraid to do a little wheel reinvention. The current Parazon finisher implementation doesn't work. Not even remotely. So tweak it from the ground up. That's what got Warframe to where it is now, after all.

2. Make Parazon mods that would be useful in the early game available in said early game. Late game players are drowning in energy that Blood for Energy isn't needed. Early game players? They need it.

3. Do something with Impact status. Tying it to the Parazon system hasn't worked so far. Let the Parazon stand on its own two legs and see what else can be done with the hammer.

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You mentioned “more reliable”.

Then all Parazon mods should have guaranteed activation on Mercy kill instead of something like 50%. It’s so unsatisfying and frustrating when I did Mercy kill but got nothing.

Otherwise, I can’t find any convincing reason to use it outside of liches. 

Edited by alseltas
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I don't really see a single component of this set of changes that are steps backwards.

Others have criticisms, and several of them have merit, but I have nothing to be upset about here, and I'm a perpetual critic! This looks like it's fully composed of positive steps, even if there are still more positive steps forward to take.

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Only allowing Parazon finishers on Corpus after their shields have been removed completely invalidates Toxin as a damage type. Why not consider both shields and health as a total pool for determining the percentage of effective health that needs to be damaged to trigger a Parazon finisher? Or, make it so you have to damage more of their health if any shields exist, compared to the current shieldless threshold?

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This is a non-change.  if I can get it low enough to Parazon it Im going going to kill it, probably accidentally did trying to get it that low.

If I have a hard enemy Im going to use the biggest hammer to nail it to the floor Im not going to use a smaller weapons to try to Parazon it.

The system needs to be fixed if its going to stay in the game and it needs to not care what the enemy is.

The demo video had to use a terrible weapon and carefully uses it to try to make the point...thats not a good sign.

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2 minutes ago, iPathos said:

If you're utilizing mercy and are incapable of either clearing the fodder or otherwise looking at the right prompt, 

What if you are capable of Clearing the Fodder but don't want to do that ?

 

As for promoting issue.... How would I know which Prompt is the Right Prompt ? Should I play Solo and Pause the game and verify I'm about to Mercy to the right enemy 🤔?

 

5 minutes ago, iPathos said:

then it highlights a bigger issue with the system - no?

Maybe..... 

5 minutes ago, Tyreaus said:

This kind of system could be great for new players whose energy economy isn't solid. But the mods that enable that are too late in the game to be useful to them.

Classic Backwards Design.... Comes up alot in this game 😁 !!!

5 minutes ago, alseltas said:

All Parazon mods should have guaranteed activation on Mercy kill instead of something like 50%. It’s so unsatisfying and frustrating when I did Mercy kill but got nothing. Otherwise, I can’t find any convincing reason to use  it outside of liches.

That's what I was thinking....

Jump torwards Heavy Gunner and Risk getting Knockdown by that AoE Slam Attack for only a 50% Chance to get 25 Energy which only has 60% to turn into more energy from Arcane Energize ? 

Yeah.... I'd hesitate to even think about doing that most of the time....

 

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whyyyyyyy can't enemies just take a knee and be invulnerable, like the kuva thrall's for like 5 seconds, then perish on their own after that duration (if they haven't been parazon finished within that duration)
Please stop attempting to make the health threshold work, in a game where enemies melt instantly by a mere glance.

Who do I have to sell my liver too in order to make the Parazon realistically function outside of Litch hunting.

Edited by Z_3_K_3
Accurate terminology + elaboration
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vor 16 Stunden schrieb SephirothWS:

Nice to see an option to revive fallen Sentinels. ... Can it not be locked behind Mercy Kills though? I never did use the Mercy Kill system simply due to how quickly its possible to nuke an entire room at times...

Imagine you are on 2/3 mercies in ~25 seconds trying to revive your pet and a nuke frame on your party oneshots the heavy gunner you know you NEED to mercy to proc this.

I'd just remove the timer honestly

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is it kind of useless? the reason why we are not using Mercy Kill is it too hard to get the HP level? the reason I do not use it is bec it takes too long time but give me nothing. not efficiency. I really have no welling to waste my time in mission for animation witch might could led the mission to fail. for example, using Mercy kill in defence mission means you have a non taunt level time and if the enemy is already high level(low level enemy do not have to use the mercy kill) and the target will be destroy very quick. 

so, in conclusion. useless change but might bring a lot of bug with the update.

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On 2021-06-18 at 9:57 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Energy could be yours

At least in the Destiny System, if you take the effort of building for Finishers, you are guaranteed an effect and it has a balancing factor of taking pieces of your super to make sure you can't just spam it on every single enemy that's available without reprecussion. 

On 2021-06-18 at 9:57 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

But what about really high levels you ask? Is it not dangerous to allow for essentially 1-hit kills in our scaling game? Mercy kills at high levels will have an extra consideration. They’ll be available when the respective enemy is at 40% Health, or 25K Health, whichever is lower. This only applies for really high enemies and units, but for a Heavy Gunner specifically for example purposes… for this to matter it doesn't kick until level 415. So generally speaking, 40% will be what you notice, but once you hit level 400+ content (generally), you’ll be using health thresholds.

So we're nerfing the ability to do finishers at all in the high end, for no real reason. 

A one hit kill that takes 5 seconds per enemy is useless in just about every endless mission. Survival? You need to kill hordes, not one enemy. Interception, Disruption, that Garbage-tier Defection mission? You can't waste time being locked into an animation while enemies are: Hacking Consoles, getting closer to conduits, and killing your escort objectives respectively. Excavation? You need crowd control and horde killing, again. 

This is the exact reason why anyone who actually plays Endless on Ash isn't spamming Fatal Teleport. It's too slow, you achieve nothing.

On 2021-06-18 at 9:57 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

5 New Parazon Mods are here! Find them all today to add new power and Utility to your Parazon! 

 

  • Power Drain - 100% chance for next ability cast to gain +50% Ability Strength.

  • Malicious Code - 50% chance for enemies within 15m to cower in fear for 8 seconds.

  • Hard Reset - Execute 3 Mercy Kills within 40 seconds to revive a fallen Sentinel or Companion. 


 

Design Council Contributions: 

  • Swift Mercy - Speed of Mercy kills increased by 50%.

  • Firewall - Reduces damage by 75% during hacking. 

Power Drain was a terrible idea.

Malicious Code is garbage considering Out of Sight exists, is a 100% chance, and does effectively the exact same thing. Is it a hacking mod? Live Wire does the same thing but better. 

Doing 3 Parazon kills in 40 seconds would've been fine if every enemy was susceptible to finishers, as opposed to two units per faction and Eximus. 

I haven't checked in on the discussions of Design Council, but... 75% DR during hacking? We have Ciphers, Auto Breach, Air Support charges, Security Override and Perspicacity to subvert the time it takes to hack. CC or innate damage reduction abilities exist on almost all Warframes, Magus Lockdown, invisibilities, blinds, iron skins, 75% DR warframe abilities like Warding Halo, radiation procs, Heavy Slams... Just using the damn operator if taking damage because you didn't pay attention to what's around you is that much of a problem, did DC REALLY recommend 75% dr ONLY DURING THE HACK over something like pulling in enemies within 20 meters? Disabling the ability for enemies to use security protocols for a few minutes? Turning nearby robotics or traps friendly for a few minutes? Literally ANYTHING more interesting or useful than dying slightly after you finish hacking if you use 0% of your brain to make sure that you're safe BEFORE starting a hack while simultaneously being too afraid to stop the hack? 

Are you joking me? 

Edit: Also... 

Dangerous to allow 1-hit kills in your scaling game? That's not even relatively close to how Parazon worked in the first place. You literally have to stop yourself from killing enemies to kill the enemy slower for a chance at an effect. 

An entirely superfluous, useless rhetorical like that also opens up a better question: What are you going to do about the things that ACTUALLY kill in one hit? Finishers from anything other than atrociously useless daggers? Arca Titron? Revenant? Trinity? Xaku? Ivara with a sniper rifle? Mag? Banshee? All of these characters can hit enemies one time, without the animation locks or time lag. 

What's more "dangerous" is the entire lack of danger itself in anything other than Arbitrations. Four revives at base, six with arcanes, characters like Nidus, Wukong, Sevagoth, and Inaros who ignore the fact that death is a thing that hinders them. Functionally immortal characters like Rhino, Hildyrn, Revenant, and Gauss. Permanently invisible characters like Wisp, Octavia, Ivara, Loki, and Ash. 

You've never embraced scaling in this game, let alone give a solid standing on whether or not you want things to scale ad-infinitum or stay in one intended level range. 

Edited by ShichiseitenYasha
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I still can't see this being used meaningfully with the current and listed new set of mods. Let me know when the TINY 'x to interact' UI with no range is changed. Same for hacking, life support modules and picking up keys.

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gameplay like remind me this on Doom where u would kill enemys with diffrent weapons to get diffrent stuff. like burning enemy to get shield. sliceing them to get ammo and so on...

 

again awesome change :)

would like to see more mods for this and maybe more mod slots off/hacking. or make it a choice. will be fine.

very cool stuff. thank you

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I would prefer mercy for stealth attacks, the addition of new Stances with a combination of parazon attacks to activate the mercy effect, and a separate parazon melee weapon for ranged players. Now it looks more like a refutation of mechanics that are not needed in the game, like support charges for example. Yes, it's cool to have your own turret on the battlefield, but does anyone really use it?

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22 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

Grineer

  • Heavy Gunners
  • Bombards

 

Don't Noxes count as heavy units? they are big have tons of armor and tons of damage reduction i feel like they should be on the list too

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On 2021-06-18 at 4:57 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

After: Impact Status Effects increases the Mercy Kill threshold range on eligible enemies. So instead of triggering at 40% on the list above, you can apply Impact Status to do a Mercy kill sooner (4% per Status)… up to 80%. Meaning applying a lot of Impact Status quickly makes an enemy VIP more quickly susceptible to a Mercy Kill. Impact would then be a build strategy for getting the VIPs out of the fight!
 

But what about really high levels you ask? Is it not dangerous to allow for essentially 1-hit kills in our scaling game? Mercy kills at high levels will have an extra consideration. They’ll be available when the respective enemy is at 40% Health, or 25K Health, whichever is lower. This only applies for really high enemies and units, but for a Heavy Gunner specifically for example purposes… for this to matter it doesn't kick until level 415. So generally speaking, 40% will be what you notice, but once you hit level 400+ content (generally), you’ll be using health thresholds. 

So, you get the idea parazon kills became a viable option do deal actual damage. And impact feature is to work with this idea.

But, somehow you decide rules should be changed is a certan treshold. Can somebody who invented this explain what is the point of the strategy if it stop work at some point?

Sure, lets pretend you didnt forget about SP (didn't you?). How it is "dangerous"? And for whom exactly working strategy is dangerous and why it's not dangerous for this guy before lvl 400?

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