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Parazon Rework: 30.5 Update!


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On 2021-06-19 at 3:13 PM, Lutesque said:

What if you are capable of Clearing the Fodder but don't want to do that ?

 

As for promoting issue.... How would I know which Prompt is the Right Prompt ? Should I play Solo and Pause the game and verify I'm about to Mercy to the right enemy ūü§Ē?

The two issues go hand-in-hand. If you can clear the fodder then it removes the issue of even worrying about multiple prompts. If you can't, you have bigger issues to deal with than trying to focus on which enemy to mercy.

And yes, the current way they're saying this will be implemented highlights many issues with the system. That's another reason why people are so against many of these elements. I won't mention the issues with Invigorations over in the Helminth workshop, that's a whole different can of worms that I'm not touching.

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On 2021-06-18 at 4:51 PM, Lakyus said:

This is awful, sorry. Impact status was already underwhelming, and now it's even more limited, to heavy units only. Why don't you go back to the idea of impact knocking down enemies? Impact already is the worst IPS damage-wise, plus it's the worst status as well.

Otherwise, I love the changes to Parazon. Thank you!

sorry, this doesnt make sence, impact is becaming more usefull, not less usefull

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I'd like to make it as clear as possible just how bad the Parazon is, and will continue to be. If the following true statement doesn't make you understand, I don't think anything will:

I do not remember ever even getting the Parazon proc outside of Thralls and the Simulacrum, not during Fissures, not during Sorties, not on the Steel Path, and not at level 9999 either.

The reason for this is not memory loss, in a Steel Path survival, killing one enemy every second is considered too slow. That's the kind of game you made. I hardly ever see enemies at 20% health, because if I don't kill them in one hit I'm doing something wrong.

For reference, 5 minutes of Steel Path survival. After rewatching, I found 1 (one) Parazon proc, but the enemy died within 0.1 seconds of it (and this type of enemy will no longer be eligible for Parazon finishers):

Oh, and I was debuffed with -75% damage.

Edited by Traumtulpe
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On 2021-06-18 at 6:57 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

So there you have it - onward to planning the era of Mercy, Tenno! See you in Sisters of Parvos! 

Two things that would mean a lot to me:

  • It would be fantastic if Parazon mods contributed some of their effect on other Finisher kills too.¬†¬† Like 50% on the effect or one of its parameters.¬† For example,
    • Power Drain: 100% chance for next ability cast to gain +50% Ability Strength (25% for other Finishers)
    • Malicious Code:¬† 50% chance for enemies within 15m to cower in fear for 8 seconds (4 seconds for other Finishers)¬†
  • Swift Mercy makes me wonder:¬† is there room to make the -base- speeds of Mercy and regular Finisher kills any faster?

The Finisher systems are cinematic, cool, and elaborate, and yall have obviously put a lot of work into them.  It's a shame that they're largely obsolete due to the sheer number of enemies we face.  Neither of these suggestions would change that basic fact.  And frankly,  there's room to increase the power of Parazon mods a lot more and that would still be the case.

But the suggestions would add a bit more utility to the system for people looking for a change of pace or to mix it into their melee / bullet / ability spam.

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On 2021-06-18 at 10:57 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Imagine you see a heavy gunner in the distance. You have ‚ÄúBlood for Energy‚ÄĚ on your Parazon.¬† You see you need some Energy, so you start shooting the heavy gunner knowing full well once she‚Äôs at 40%, she will be open for a Mercy kill and the Energy could be yours!

I really really want to enjoy this tactic but 50% chance to get the effect forces me hesitate. Energy could be mine only with a 50% possibility. 

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People have probably suggested something like this a hundred times already, but I'll voice my opinion anyway.

Suggestion: When an enemy is open to Parazon Kills, they won't die if their health hits zero, instead they get staggered for 3-6?seconds and die normally when the timer runs out or they get parazon'd, whichever happens first.

Parazon kills also need to have a more tangible benefit, or people won't bother with them. More mods and slots would be a start, or maybe something else, I don't know, I'm just a guy on the internet.

Maybe being able to use it as a melee weapon, akin to a whip? Could be a neat addition. /shrug

But either way, it's nice that the Parazon is getting some attention.

Edited by Nasheim
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hace 22 horas, Lutesque dijo:

I'm curious if it also Resets the counter on Primed Regen ūü§Ē...

Realistically and regarding game mechanics, it probably should. If not, then at least there's now an alternative if Helios Prime got shredded in a high level steel path mission.

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On 2021-06-18 at 3:57 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

A Mercy Kill opportunity will be guaranteed when an enemy gets below 40% (60% for Corpus, but requires all Shields being stripped), but only on SPECIFIC units in each faction. 

20% or 40% or even 99% - it is still either 100% or 0% in the real game.
If you want it to work - then let those enemies you've chosen (Bombards, Nullifiers, Heavy goons, etc and any eximus units) fall on their knee on 0 hp like Thralls do when you farm murmur. Because %HP just won't work, it won't, just play your game, go into matchmaking and try it yourself with real players.

Edited by Scar.brother.help.me
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On 2021-06-19 at 1:57 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Imagine you see a heavy gunner in the distance. You have ‚ÄúBlood for Energy‚ÄĚ on your Parazon.¬† You see you need some Energy, so you start shooting the heavy gunner knowing full well once she‚Äôs at 40%, she will be open for a Mercy kill and the Energy could be yours!

Lol ok so I see a HG in the distance and with your new rework of the weapons (guns), (for more "game balance" of using guns) you now want me to run over and stab it in the back .. interesting concept..

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At first I felt pretty positive about this, but that's changed as I started to think about how this will work for people who aren't super-casual solo players like me.  I am not going to have a problem not instakilling enemies like Heavy Gunners and Bombards when playing above standard star chart levels.  Players with a lot more power, or who enjoy using nuke frames, or who are just playing with other people, are probably going to see no benefit here.  They or their teammates will annihilate the target instead of pulling off a mercy.  It'll probably be great for newer players, but I question if they'll even have mods to take advantage of it.  It feels strangely like this was balanced around players like me, and I'm not sure that's a good idea.  Especially since doing something like putting a mercy killable enemy into a stagger for a few seconds would work for everyone at all levels of play.  Plus it'd make the name fit since it's bringing a quick death to an enemy that's dying slowly.

Unless the goal is to make it easy to fail?  Most of the suggestions I've seen about adjusting this system have involved a means to ensure that a mercy gets done reliably, but I'm getting the impression that guaranteed mercy kills are actively against the design goals for the parazon.  It's explicitly stated that they're currently not being used as much as intended, so it's not supposed to be super rare, but this is also the one method of changing the system which I've seen that still leaves getting one up to chance.  So, it might help us provide more helpful feedback if we knew exactly what the intended role of mercies is.  Are they supposed to be a regular part of the combat loop that we can consciously choose to do when we need to, or even build for?  Or are they meant to be more of a pleasant, but essentially random, opportunity that pops up once in a while?  The impact procs and Hard Reset mod's condition suggest the former.  The ease of slaughtering the enemy accidentally, and killing mods sharing such a small number of slots with so many hacking mods, suggests the latter.  The whole thing comes across like one tool is being used to do too many things and having an identity crisis for it. 

To sum it up bluntly:  I have no idea what you want me to do with my parazon in combat, and that makes it hard to give feedback.

Also, and this is a bit of a tangent, I'm surprised that we're getting another way to revive companions right after that Protea augment.  It's getting weird seeing repeated roundabout methods of compensating for the problems of pets that aren't based on the pets themselves.  I'm particularly skeptical of this one's efficacy.  If I'm in a mission where I'll be able to pull off mercy kills in rapid succession, then I'm also in a mission where my pet is probably going to die again twenty seconds later.

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Parazon can only support 3 mods, what I'm left asking is whether I can automatically switch to Config B if it's part of a different loadout as it is with regular gear. It might already be like that, not sure. I've only ever ran Runtime, Untraceable, and Auto Breach.

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On 2021-06-18 at 12:16 PM, God_is_a_Cat_Girl said:

This would be great, until you consider how multiplayer works and how selfish players can be.


Overall, this could be even more interesting if we had proper VIP targets and not "trash mobs, but slightly stronger". Meanwhile the best VIP in the game isn't included in the list (nor the Sentient, shame).

I felt like the Nox and Corpus Tech were very cospicuously missing. Strange. 

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Do u think u guys can force tenno to use guns by this way? no, they always find a way to make melee OP again, unless u keep nerfing melee, let's go and see.

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22 hours ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

20% or 40% or even 99% - it is still either 100% or 0% in the real game.
If you want it to work - then let those enemies you've chosen (Bombards, Nullifiers, Heavy goons, etc and any eximus units) fall on their knee on 0 hp like Thralls do when you farm murmur. Because %HP just won't work, it won't, just play your game, go into matchmaking and try it yourself with real players.

I can only add that even if it gets like that - I will still be using 3 mods for hacking unless there will be another row for finisher mods 

Spoiler

hackerman.jpg

 

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I like the spirit of where you're going with making the Parazon more useful against units, but that 25k lower-end cap has to go:

Level 100 Heavy Gunner has roughly 31k hp, 31*.4=12.4, so 12.4k to get a finisher on a heavy gunner.

Trouble is, we have Steel Path, where for whatever reason, instead of just making it 1:1 scaling upwards, a design decision was made to make it an additional 200% (read: 300% of base value) on Armor, Health, and Shields.  So now that level 100 Heavy Gunner has 93k hp (for simplicity's sake), and 93*.4 gets you a slightly nastier 37.2k; which is far and away above your minimum HP.  Why would I choose a level 100 Heavy Gunner on Steel Path?  Well it starts at level 101-104, so... yeah, that cap means that you're just going to be outright destroying the gunners, since you're not going to consider trying to wittle down its health, and instead opt to outright kill it.  It's no choice at all.

Now, I understand you don't want to "balance around Steel Path" (Arsenal Divide reasoning being chucked out the window), so I will instead point you to the likely only enemy in Grineer Empyrean missions of the Veil Proxima that will be susceptible to the parazon:

The Gokstad Officer.  Again, in an attempt to make it more challenging the armor and hp values were ramped up.  At level 90 (not a fissure, just base Veil Proxima mind you), a Gokstad Officer clocks in at roughly 95k hp.  If you had to chip away an extra 12k from that Steel Path Heavy Gunner with 93k hp to open it to Parazon finishers,  you'll have to chip away a similar amount, being generous on the rounding, of 15k.  So, yes, we will see the 25k barrier well before level 450 enemies, and that's just from the start of Steel Path, or the final Grineer missions in Empyrean.

That 25k cap is doing you absolutely zero favors, please reconsider that decision.

And to @[DE]Pabloin particular since they trotted you out to outline these changes, you should probably insist on having script negotiations built into your contract if they're going to have you continue lying to the player base in this manner.  It's not a big lie, but it is an ever present one and a misrepresentation, however small, can ruin trust over time, as you run in to those level 90 Gokstad Officers on every crewship and on nearly every, if not every, sub-objective in Veil Proxima.

You will run in to enemies with more than 62.5k raw hp far more often than you believe.  40% of 62.5k being at your threshold of 25k.  Especially if the solution to "make things harder to kill" is to simply add more health scaling.

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On 2021-06-18 at 4:51 PM, HolySeraphin said:

Considering the susceptible enemies are some of the tankies in their faction, I think it is good, way better than the last version. Impact Shotguns may shine really well in this regard. It may actually not be as strong as slash, but damn it has potential.

Lol no, there are several weapons which are delete tanky units with 1 shot. And they are still useful against normal enemies. In the time it would take to impact proc and Parazon the enemy would already be dead with current guns.

and it wouldn’t change the fact the shotguns have been mostly garbage (outside of sobek, k kohm, Corinth, Energis) since the status rework. 
if you want impact shotguns to work, we need internal bleeding for shotguns and for their status to be buffed into being able to go over 100% again. Even my godly riven Strun with 75k damage and going for the optimal elements is worthless in steel path and the new mods and Parazon mods won’t change that.

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Is there no reason why we cant have a ranged parazon for ranged takedowns? If im shooting things as i normally would j wont even see the press x thing because i wont be in the enemies face at the time. You firstly have to make them more obvious of when its possible to perform one, but secondly do it at range. Make it a throwing knife or a scorpion ripline or something of the sort you can use while using guns

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On 2021-06-21 at 5:51 AM, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

Parazon finishers would need a built in Marked For Death before most players would even consider it.

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I'm hoping for the same thing. So, I second this ^.

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Will the duration of the paragon kill animation be decreased? Since the new arcanes duration between kills has been shortened there is absolutely no reason to use the paragon for kills outside of lichs because we will not be able to maintain the arcane buff. 

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Parazon will always be used as a tool for hacking unless you FORCE specific enemies to take a knee after receiving lethal damage and stay alive for like 2-3 second after doing so while being open to a parazon finishers because we will evaporate anything that doesn't do that.

I mean... when Pablo has to build a bad build of the Synoid Gammacore just to demonstrate how to do a parazon finisher because it would have evaporated the enemies otherwise... you've got a huge problem that someone on the dev team isn't acknowledging.

Edited by Almagnus1
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On 2021-06-18 at 10:57 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Malicious Code - 50% chance for enemies within 15m to cower in fear for 8 seconds.

STOP 50% CHANCE

Parazon mods such as Malicious Code and Blood For Energy should have guaranteed effect on Mercy kill, otherwise nobody would use those mods on purpose because it is simply waste of time when you could not activate effects.

100% chance will never be overpowered with such mediocre effects.

Edited by alseltas
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1 hour ago, alseltas said:

STOP 50% CHANCE

Parazon mods such as Malicious Code and Blood For Energy should have guaranteed effect on Mercy kill, otherwise nobody would use those mods on purpose because it is simply waste of time when you could not activate effects.

100% chance will never be overpowered with such mediocre effects.

Exactly. 50% chance to meme enemies into crowd control? You know what else is good crowd control? Death.

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