Dev Workshop: The Arsenal Divide

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

And just like that you massacred my Baruuk build with that Berserker change.

There are a handful of weapons that NEED Berserker and primed fury in order for their attack speed to be at a place where the weapon can actually be usable. Serene Storm is one of those weapons.

And all the gun arcanes don’t seem helpful at all. People don’t use the mod Bladed Rounds anymore because if your gun is strong enough to kill an enemy at the level your at now then it doesn’t need the extra critical damage. They should all be switched to “on hit”. I mean the whole issue is the guns can’t kill at higher levels. So why would you make killing an enemy the requirement to get the damage increase necessary to kill the enemy?

[DeadS1lence]

9 minutes ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

Yo how the fudge? Is this an US only rule that you need to give your more personal information instead of just putting your age or something

I live in germany and google ask me the very same thing to verify my age either through credit card or passport  :/

[CloudStrife91]

Tbh all in all this is basically the equivalent of a 300 percent damage nerf to all melee weapons which brings us back to the position when bad melee we’re not worth using and great melee weapons were and then you have primary and secondary weapons that become the meta with these changes tbh if your going to do this to melee then you need to at least add arcades to melee as well to bring them in line with primary and secondaries  cause atm from a mathematical standpoint melee peons are going to fall behind some of the best primary and secondary weapons by about 50-75percent damage and the bad mele weapons are just dead

[Kaotis]

Live reaction as i read this.... Lets go! 

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Generally speaking, we feel that gun stats are in a good place, but it's the Mods that are lacking. Inversely, some Melee Mods are too strong. We intend to address these issues in two ways: firstly, careful nerfs to a handful of Melee Mods; secondly, by offering greater strength for the rest of your Arsenal with Primary and Secondary Arcanes and new Galvanized Mods. 

So instead of boosting the ones that are laking you lower the strong ones and bandaid the others ... oke

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

we want players to have that same level of fun and power with Primary and Secondary weapons should that be their preference. 

Stil no reason why no  buff to the "unfun" acording to you guys ... i personaly mess around with all my arsenal but maybe i'm the strange one...

 

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

To:

Beserker Fury, cannot stack with Fury.
On Melee Kill:
+35% Attack Speed (Max 70%)  for 10s. Stacks up to 2x. 

So rip weapons that actualy needed that much attack speed to be usefull

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

To

+40% Critical Chance stacks with Combo Multiplier

Masive damage lose for the weapons that were near the edge of red crits and no effect on the ones that were siting pretty over it.

 

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

To

+80% Melee Damage per Status Type affecting the target. 

Yes coz making status based weapons (that are about 60%+ of them) do less damage than the unga bunga crits is giving us choises...

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

First, the heavy attack wind-up speed is being increased from 0.6 seconds to 1.2 seconds. With more time on the wind-up, it is much harder to accidentally throw when you are trying to swing.

 

With this increased wind-up speed, players are also more capable of performing quick throws. Right now the damage on quick throws is very close to fully charged, so in order to encourage more meaningful choice, our second change is to reduce quick throw damage to approximately 50% of the maximum charge. Exact number changes are as follows:

Welcome back to the obscure part of the arsenal glaives. Also "accidentally trow" ermm did you ask a Kotaku or some other game jornalist about this one? Seriosly not seeing how it can be posible...

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Kuva Nukor

 

We are indeed touching 1 non-Melee item in the series of Nerfs, and likely to no one’s surprise it’s the Kuva Nukor. It’s a dominant Secondary with incredible power, which is warranted given its acquisition. It’ll keep all of its signature behaviour, but the general output is being notched down slightly with the following change:
- Chains targets reduced to 2 from 4

You seriosly don't see the doble dip in the nerf here do you? condition overload nerfed , status aplication nerfed(also there are other ways to apply tons of status that isn't the kuva nukor just saying...) , critical nerfed for an overal reduction of damage output of like 50% ish on averange or more in some particualr cases.

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

With all the information about how we are lessening power in some ways, let’s move onto the way we are increasing the power available to Primary & Secondary weapon options. 

Oh boy can't wait for 10%-20 % dps increase ...

*edit after reading full post* oke oke probably more like 30 % on averange, but you just created potential problems on the multishot+ status department

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Our entire approach to making Guns a comparable choice in your Arsenal orbits around the notion that Gunplay is fundamentally more varied than Melee: there are pinpoint accuracy guns, AOE guns, and high fire rate Guns (and everything in between). There’s reload times, magazine sizes, and more. We want to make these varied options better at what they do by rewarding you for using them well - thus, Arcanes! 

 That's an bandaid if i ever seen one. Arcanes are not a weapon reward are a bonus for grinding. If some one doesn't go out and farm this they won't see any of that reward for the skil now, will they? 

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Because the Gunplay falloff is more of a late-game problem, these new Upgrades will be earned through late-game content systems -- namely, the Steel Path. You’ll be able to get the Arcane Slot Unlockers from Steel Path Honors, whereas the Arcanes themselves drop from Acolytes in the Steel Path! The spawn frequency of Acolytes is also being increased, meaning you’ll get more Steel Essence, as well as more chances for the Arcane you want. All Acolytes will drop them!  

So the mentality is : " you have a hard time doing this content? -> make rewards that help you do that content as a drop in the content you are having a hard time in... oh and we made it harder coz we nerfed the alternatives" ... I guess the 1+1 =2 is not an universal logic thing any more.

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

There are 6 Arcanes (3 Primary, 3 Secondary) that you’ll be able to rank up and put to put into the new Slots

WOW! So many choises such WOW!  

*after reading the arcanes* : So basicaly all the same?

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

PRIMARY MERCILESS

Game award pick

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

The second Primary Arcane is designed with high precision weapons in mind. Make your Headshots count for greater performance (excluding AOE headshots)!:

PRIMARY DEADHEAD

On Headshot Kill:
120% Damage for 24s. Stacks up to 3x.
+30% to Headshot Multiplier.
-50% Weapon Recoil

Will be the less used if i't not in eidolon hunting and you should know this by now, just by the weapon usage metrics.

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

The “Arcane Unlockers” themselves are an item you’ll need to install on the weapons you want to take further, and you can find the Unlockers in the Steel Path Honors. 

For this one in particular i'd recomend to have it as plat option as well, there are not many plat sinks right now after a certain point in the game. Honest recomendation , I'll probably end up farming them to have somthing to do ingame until new content...

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Galvanized Mods

Multishot and status ones ... You will end up nerfing them in 2-3 years when you revisit the melle weapons coz of low usage...

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

In closing…

Sisters of Parvos will bring these changes on all Platforms. The delivery of these changes is rooted in our goals, and if we miss the mark we’ll be watching for what to tweak. Keep in mind what our goals and visions are when you give feedback after playing!  

Fare enoght , your game, your rules. Will give feedback on the actual "feel" of this changes once played. But i would like to add that you didn't adress rivens , specialy the atack speed ones. And honestly i don't see why you had to delay this post 2 days , hope it wasn't because the super original arcanes and the variety they bring.

Tx for your time.

 

 

[NovaLP]

Alot of the changes look rly good I am impressed but there is big problem with them.
Steel Path is gonna be its own content island after this is going to be released

Reason: Farming Steel Path to get the Arcanes that make your weapons feel better in Steel Path shouldn't be the way to go

Fix: Put those Primary Arcanes into different sections of the game that is gonna be played before a player unlocks the Steel Path instead.

Profit Taker Orb: all 3 Primary Arcanes
Exploiter Orb: all 3 new Secondary Arcanes
3rd Orb: could maby Heavy Weapon Arcanes then?

at a later stage you could implement 2 Grineer Orphix Missions in RJ with those Arcanes being rewarded, for players that don't like to hunt Orbs

Item to unlock the new arcane slot should be a reward from returning a Guilded Kitgun to either Father or Rude Zuud

Reasons for the Fix:
1) Streamlined rewards obtainable from before the Steel Path preventing Steel Path from becoming a content island
2) Arsenal divide in the Steel Path would be fixed before new players can reach the Steel Path itself
3) Revival of Orbs, since they have no rewards important for players who unlocked them (removing the or lowering the artifical barrier to entry would also be a welcome change)
4) Modular weapons already have access to the Arcane slot, so it would make sense to unlock set Arcane slot from the modular weapon system
5) Item that unlocks the arcane slot would be obtainable earlier then the arcanes themselves and require only to be R3 with Solaris or Entrati

[DarknessNightshade]

Just now, DeadS1lence said:

I live in germany and google ask me the very same thing to verify my age either through credit card or passport  :/

It's a thing that Youtube does to verify your age if the channel creator or Youtube has flagged the video as 18+. Warframe is 13+ so unless there's something super adult-y in that new guide video I dunno what to tell you.

[PlanckZero]

7 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

Sad about Glaive Throw Timing increase

the extra delay is gonna mess with my flow personally

and no, i never had a problem with 'accidentally throwing my glaive'

why would I ever Not Want to Throw in the first place?

Because it's bullS#&$.  Glaives are powerful and they want to nerf them but for some reason they don't want to just come out and say it like that so they're "helping" people by making them slower to use.

[Xolgys]

vor 12 Minuten schrieb (XBOX)C11H22O11:

Yo how the fudge? Is this an US only rule that you need to give your more personal information instead of just putting your age or something

why do u assume that im from the US ?

i am not but i wonder why u would assume out of the blue.

regarding the issue: ive never seen this and im actually shocked that youtube dares to do that.

 

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

Just now, DeadS1lence said:

I live in germany and google ask me the very same thing to verify my age either through credit card or passport  :/

Well schnitzel that's garbage, my account is old and it was just put day/month/year never credit card or something else

[Xolgys]

vor 1 Minute schrieb (XBOX)C11H22O11:

Well schnitzel that's garbage, my account is old and it was just put day/month/year never credit card or something else

my account is old too...thats hardly relevant.

also, could u not call people by a dish ?

[RoadCrewWorker]

1 minute ago, DarknessNightshade said:

It's a thing that Youtube does to verify your age if the channel creator or Youtube has flagged the video as 18+. Warframe is 13+ so unless there's something super adult-y in that new guide video I dunno what to tell you.

Google knows those changes are so gruesome they can't let you see the graphic details without adult supervision.

[Malkiur]

Looks great! I don't use Nukor but I agree with the slight nerf, I love the new change to Berserker, and looking forward to see the new Arcanes and Galvanized Mods in action. Although, while on the topic of mods, will some mods already in-game receive buffs? That would be a useful change for players who've already completed the normal star chart but are yet to start Steel Path which is required to get any of these new mods and Arcanes (As examples, players that engage in Arbitrations, ESO or Endurance Runs - content that hits higher levels that many current Primary and Secondary weapons, especially classics such as Braton or Burston even Lex and Aklato, already cannot handle).

One other thing that comes to mind currently is the 10 invigorations part. Considering that players aplenty will forget to use this feature more regularly than getting into a routine of using it, like the Blessings for example, it might take a while for many players to get to that goal of 10. Fact is, many only use Blessings when they happen to be in a relay or during streams (And even then not always), and while this seems to be much more of a buff, especially considering that it's week long, I still think many will forget about this constantly. Would be a good idea is to display the current week's invigoration roster at the top of the arsenal and make it possible to teleport to the Helminth right from the arsenal itself, perhaps?

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

Kuva Nukor

chaining just 2 instead of 4

 

So.... hows the thing going to measure up vs a well-built Gaze Secondary?

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

1 hour ago, Kahrain said:

This seems like a start, but something feels off. I'm not a theory crafter, but some of the changes here seem to be potentially huge unintentional buffs. Arca Plasmor meta back in business?

That's a good thing. Arca Plasmor has been absolutely worthless since the Status rework a little while ago. 

Also, we have the Granum variant coming with the next update as well. 

 

[addamrobin2]

1) there is no problem with melees, blame primaries and secondaries for failing to keep up with melees 

2) red crit is a mechanic in this game, designed by YOU, and designed to be USED, again... not melees' fault for primaries and secondaries being so much of a hassle to build for consistent orange and red crits

3) you introduced steel path, surprise surprise... primaries and secondaries are next to useless in it, making melees the only viable choice for it... again, not melees' fault

4) primaries and secondaries are useless for high level content, let's nerf melee instead

5) admit it, all of this is just simply a knee jerk reaction from some of your friends at youtube 

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

1 minute ago, Xydeth said:

why do u assume that im from the US ?

i am not but i wonder why u would assume out of the blue.

regarding the issue: ive never seen this and im actually shocked that youtube dares to do that.

 

My bad , yeah I'm not aware of this thing either since when I created my account it didn't ask anything

[(XBOX)CFG SatanDevil]

Sisters of Parvos, new Lich weapons, new arcanes and mods to farm …. great. 
im happy for the content 

[Alcatraz243]

1 youtuber: "ehi, you can play all mission with press E only...melee is OP" (not trash gameplay,weapons stats\riven mod disp for exp, no endgame since 2015) and where he test it? low lvl enemies...at very high lvl i can kill 1 or more enemies in 3-4 sec with 12x combo (add the time you need to reach it)...the enemie can kill me in 1 sec or less with 90% of warframe at full hp and shield, but melee still OP.

Nerf wps speed because your ability to do animations for melee wp does not exist....ok I will keep you informed of how much my beard grows before I hit and then kill an enemy

Add arcanes and "mod" to "improve"? i guess? But all of this need time to raise the dmg of wp....ok same this for melee speed (will keep you informed)

P.S. New arcane= FARMING. DE you are able to improve \ fix something in game without adding anything else to farm?(if no one has ever told you, you can do it, is LEGAL)

This game mechanic in which you need spend A LOT OF TIME to do a normal dmg is absolutely st***d,boring,counterproductive, not funny and this is another proof that you cannot balance your game,whose direct consequence -> most of veteran player leave the game after years of things like that. GJ DE

And last thing...this situation is the result of the nerfs at the wps for reasons like: Too much used (new prime wp after 1 month is too used NERF), a lot of supid things like that.

[Xolgys]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb DarknessNightshade:

It's a thing that Youtube does to verify your age if the channel creator or Youtube has flagged the video as 18+. Warframe is 13+ so unless there's something super adult-y in that new guide video I dunno what to tell you.

there are tons of videos which inform about 18+ content....just check the mortal combat fatalities...thats sure as Hek far more brutal than warframe and u wont find any age confirmation shenanigans on any of these videos so i wonder where this comes from on a warframe video all of a sudden...

[Jackie..Quilt]

How devs see nerfs: We are changing Melee and Primary in for the singular purpose of making the combat experience more balanced, especially at high level play (Steel Path, etc).
How I'm see nerfs: We just want to support the sell you NEW Galvanized Mods.
Kek. just kek.

[xcrimsonlegendx]

The fact that the new parazon stuff is focused on the "big" enemies, its become way to obvious that enemies shrink to your size when you finish them. lol

Might needs some custom big enemy takedown animations.

[-CCC-Insp3ctorJon3s]

To be honest, melee nerfs are lower than expected, wtf is that "speed nerf"? its basically nothing, there are even only very few cases where you use berserker and fury at the same time . And if, Wisp/Valk/Volt still exist and arcane strike ... "lets nerf nukor" seems nice and (imo needed) but "lets give it access to arcanes and insane looking new mods" .
DE a few months ago: "oh no glaives are kinda bad, noone plays them" -> buffing glaives -> people start using them
DE now: "oh no glaives are now popular, nerf it or something"

[Xikto]

Good changes coming but one thing that catches my attention is a lot of "on kill" effects on those new mods, you know what thay means? At higher levels (or levels that it matters) you WILL be locked into ur strongest weapon which is disappointing. 

But i am not one to complain without giving a solution, make it so ALL galvanized "on kill" effects are counted at once, so if i do 10 primary kills it will also count for secondary weapon so changing weapons becomes sth you can actually do! 

[Xolgys]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb (PSN)haphazardlynamed:

Kuva Nukor

chaining just 2 instead of 4

 

So.... hows the thing going to measure up vs a well-built Gaze Secondary?

gaze secondary has always been amazing. pretty much a gem nobody cared about, sadly. new cycron might also be really good considering the base is usable already.

[Astral_AEther]

Ok, time for a wall (I will only respond to points I think I have enough experience with, OR if I'm really worried about soemthing)

Il y a 2 heures, [DE]Rebecca a dit :

Berserker:

Attack Speed increases for Melee are part of what makes it so dominant. This is especially true when the conditions to reach animation-breaking Attack Speed are as simple as current Berserker: ‘on Critical Hit’. Infinite Attack-Speed Uptime is possible with a single Mod, and the result is animation noise with no distinction between hits, coupled with massive Damage output. 

 

We still want to support the ability to increase your Melee Attack Speed and Damage Output, just not to the levels you currently can.

Berserker is changing from:

+30% Attack Speed (Max 75%) for 24s on Critical Hit
 

To:

Beserker Fury, cannot stack with Fury.
On Melee Kill:
+35% Attack Speed (Max 70%)  for 10s. Stacks up to 2x. 

 

This is important because:

- It decouples it from Critical Chance.
- Adds a more defined ramp up using ‘On Kill’ instead of On Crit (which frequently meant 0 to ‘Max’ in one swing hitting 3 enemies).
- Renamed to Berserker Fury to communicate that it can no longer be equipped with Fury / Primed Fury. 

I'm not sure what to think about it...

Sure, the old Berserkr was pushed, but...I feel like toning down the scaling/max value/giving the trigger a cooldown ("cannot triggers more than once in 4 seconds" for exemple) could have been a possibility (or my favorite: reducing the duration a lot/making it decay (like "looses 5% each second", kinda like the Combo Counter)

The "mutually-exclusiveness" between Berserkr and Fury is nice to see tho, same as making it viable for non-crit weapons (I think)

 

Il y a 3 heures, [DE]Rebecca a dit :

Blood Rush:

 

Blood Rush’s maximum value is being lowered.This changes the achievability of consistent Red Crits from just one Mod (on most Melee weapons, some High-Critical exceptions), and now additional help will be needed via Mods, Arcanes, or Warframe abilities to achieve consistent Red Crits. 

 

One Mod alone generally delivering the best tier of Criticals felt too powerful.

Blood Rush is changing from:
+60% Critical Chance stacks with Combo Multiplier

To

+40% Critical Chance stacks with Combo Multiplier

 

Condition Overload

Condition Overload’s maximum value is being lowered. It’s been some time since we originally changed this Mod, and in this time we’ve decided we’re still not happy with the way this goes up against other Damage Mods (namely Primed Pressure Point). We’ve reduced this to 80% to make it almost as good as Primed Pressure Point, and 3 Status Types back to where it was originally. It remains true that even though the maximum potential damage is lower now, we think it is still an extremely powerful Mod in its latest iteration.

 

There should now be a more meaningful choice: do you want front loaded damage or a build up from multiple Status Types?

Condition Overload is changing from:
+120% Melee Damage per Status Type affecting the target.

To

+80% Melee Damage per Status Type affecting the target. 

Nothing to say here, it was what got out of a discussion about those mods with some friends:

They scaled too much, or too many times (their scaling could have worked of the maximum Combo Stack was 5 for instance, instead of 11~12)

 

Il y a 3 heures, [DE]Rebecca a dit :

Cerata

Direct Hit Damage from 366 to 201

Radial Damage from 549 to 333

Falcor

Direct Hit Damage from 460 to 250

Radial Damage from 690 to 345

Glaive

Direct Hit Damage from 210 to 116

Radial Damage from 315 to 190

Glaive Prime

Direct Hit Damage from 328 to 180

Radial Damage from 492 to 296

Halikar

Direct Hit Damage from 298 to 163

Radial Damage from 447 to 225

Halikar Wraith

Direct Hit Damage from 503 to 263

Radial Damage from 621 to 329

Kestrel

Direct Hit Damage from 168 to 92

Radial Damage from 252 to 126

Orvius

Direct Hit Damage from 390 to 215

Radial Damage from to 520 to 293

Pathocyst

Direct Hit Damage from 524 to 288

Radial Damage from 786 to 393

Xoris

Direct Hit Damage from 240 to 120

Radial Damage from 480 to 250

When you say Direct Damage, that means only damage from a throw...not also the damage from meleeing ?

 

Il y a 3 heures, [DE]Rebecca a dit :

There are 6 Arcanes (3 Primary, 3 Secondary) that you’ll be able to rank up and put to put into the new Slots:

PRIMARY:

The first Primary Arcane is designed with Primary weapons that perform well as AOE or high rate-of-fire weapons. This Arcane will reward kills with the following stats at Max rank:

PRIMARY MERCILESS

On Kill:
+30% Damage for 6s. Stacks up to 12x.
+30% Reload Speed
+100% Ammo Max

The more you kill, the more damage you can build up. Groovy!
 

The second Primary Arcane is designed with high precision weapons in mind. Make your Headshots count for greater performance (excluding AOE headshots)!:

PRIMARY DEADHEAD

On Headshot Kill:
120% Damage for 24s. Stacks up to 3x.
+30% to Headshot Multiplier.
-50% Weapon Recoil

 

The final Primary Arcane is designed with using your full loadout in mind, enter Melee synergy:

PRIMARY DEXTERITY

On Melee Kill: +60% Damage for 20s. Stacks up to 6x.

 

SECONDARY: 

Secondary Weapons will receive the same options as Primary Weapons for their Arcanes, but with their own version. In practice, you’d be able to equip yourself with a Precision Secondary like the Knell, a high-fire rate Primary like the Grakata, and select the Arcane that will reward each play style best!

The stats are the same for the Secondary versions of the New Arcanes:

SECONDARY MERCILESS

On Kill:

+30% Damage for 6s. Stacks up to 12x.

+30% Reload Speed

+100% Ammo Max

 

SECONDARY DEADHEAD

On Headshot Kill:

120% Damage for 24s. Stacks up to 3x. 

+30% to Headshot Multiplier.

-50% Weapon Recoil

 

SECONDARY DEXTERITY

On Melee Kill: +60% Damage for 20s. Stacks up to 6x.

 

Ultimately each Arcane stacks up to the same amount of damage, but it’s how you choose to get there that counts. Precision? Spray and Pray? Melee synergy? Your choice!

The non-damage boni on Merciless and Deadhead are confusing for me...

They stack upon triggering the arcane again ? They are decaying over time ? They are removed when you switch weapons ? ect (Imagine overflowing the Ammo count)

 

Il y a 3 heures, [DE]Rebecca a dit :

Galvanized Mods

 

Our observation that Arsenal imbalance becomes obvious at higher level content means that we want your progression to this content to matter for your power level. We want to give you the tools to progress to optimal play with a new series of Mods: Galvanized Mods!

 

The general approach to these Galvanized Mods is that the unconditional upgrade is not quite as good as the non-Galvanized original, but the On Kill conditional increases them well above and beyond what is available with ‘conventional’ Mods in your Arsenal. These will be available from Teshin’s Steel Path Honors. 

 

I have three questions:

1. Why Shotgun has no "Crit while aiming on headshot" mod, but a "Projectile Speed" mod instead ? Is Projectile Speed *that* useful on shotguns ? It is actually useful, at all ?

2. On the Galvanized Status mod, what is stacking up to x2 ? The "+40% damage/Status Type, no limit to the scaling" (which means +80% Damage/Status Type at max), or the Condition-like effect does not stack with itself, and the damage scaling is capped at 2 Status Type ?

2bis. How will Galvanized Savvy's Kill effect afects Cedo's primary fire ? (since it has built-in Condition-like effect)

3. Why do all the Galvanized Multishot mods have the same value of starting and scaling Multishot values (all starts at 80% and ramp by 30%/Kill, with a max of 200%), while the "flat" Multishot mods have varying values (120% on Barrel Diffusion (which can be paired with Lethal Torrent for even more Bullet Hell), 120% on shotguns, but only 90% on rifles) ?