Dev Workshop: The Arsenal Divide

[RichardKam]

Hmmmm. Melee nerf is relatively mild (less than what I expected). I don't agree with glaive nerf because it was the glaive prime being the bad guy here. Other glaives are weak, now they are weaker. 

Gun buff. Overall if you have not unlocked SP or have no intention of playing SP, gun buff does not affect you. In fact most of the guns can handle non-SP content alright so I am fine with that. I think DE logic is that gun needs to be buffed only in late game ie SP. All those arcanes and stuff in non-SP content, even in sortie, are overkill.

[TheGuyver]

1 hour ago, Goldenrevolver8 said:

quickening still exists. so you can run quickening and berserker for 40%+70%=110% instead of primed fury and berserker for 55%+75%=130%. they didn't prevent stacking attack speed mods, they just made berserker a fury variation. so this is not a big change

True that, I never used it for channeling that I legit forgot it was changed to speed/combo chance lmao

1 hour ago, (PSN)RWalls91 said:

Rivens will be the saving grace I guess. But shouldn't have to rely on rivens

Meh, relying on an RNG mod with a RNG system built into it isn't exactly what I would call good design choice.

1 hour ago, Sanchezjoax said:

They are hammers. They are supposed to be slow melee weapons. Yes, I do agree that maybe they should be changed to have some benefits because of that, but I dont think it was ever intended to swing a fragor prime at 2.0 attack speed

I wouldn't want to be swinging at 2,0 attack speed either, looking at you wisp. We can only wait to see what happens now I suppose. 

[Xolgys]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb (XBOX)C11H22O11:

My bad , yeah I'm not aware of this thing either since when I created my account it didn't ask anything

my account is old and ofc i have put my age/birth date but there is far more critical content on the internet which pretty much anyone can freely view without any birth date confirmation, let alone what youtube now dares to ask for, the mentioned confirmation via passport/credit card.

just hilarious.

[PlanckZero]

The Kuva Nukor nerf is a knee jerk reaction, imo.

Some people use it as a status spreader for their melee so if they want to mess status based melee builds they go after the nukor instead of ACTUALLY fixing status based melee?

I use the Kuva Nukor as my secondary because I just like the weapon, and now because DE wants to make melee weaker and promote the use of primary and secondary weapons they've made my favorite secondary considerably weaker?

[TheLexiConArtist]

1 minute ago, Astral_AEther said:

I have three questions:

1. Why Shotgun has no "Crit while aiming on headshot" mod, but a "Projectile Speed" mod instead ? Is Projectile Speed *that* useful on shotguns ? It is actually useful, at all ?

Projectile Speed affects falloff for non-projectile weapons, so this can also be read as "Shotgun effective range becomes more generous while killing"

[Xolgys]

Gerade eben schrieb PlanckZero:

The Kuva Nukor nerf is as stupid a knee jerk reaction as you can get.

Some people use it as a status spreader for their melee so if they want to #*!% over status based melee builds they go after the nukor instead of ACTUALLY fixing status based melee?

I use the Kuva Nukor as my secondary because I just like the weapon, and now because DE wants to make melee weaker and promote the use of primary and secondary weapons they've made my favorite secondary considerably weaker?

the weapon is overpowered. period.

when u release tons of weapons and some are just a 3.0 version of 2 others then u might think about tweaking/nerfing the shuttle so that its back on earth.

[(XBOX)AssaultDemiGod]

So instead of outright buffing the mods you created an alternative approach by creating “wind up” mods to make people farm for them and still disregarding the issue you created by not being able to stack both crit mods onto a primary or secondary and then also nerfing almost essential melee mods for what reason now? Makes sense 👍

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

20 minutes ago, Xydeth said:

my account is old too...thats hardly relevant.

also, could u not call people by a dish ?

It's my censored sht it's just coincidence that the person is German, I'm also not calling that person sht it's like "Damn that sucks"

edit: I get it now I searched it, that's really bad

[Kaotis]

hace 13 minutos, ShortCat dijo:

So... nothing changed in the end. Since top damage is still the same, a Bramma with its massive AoE + Primary Merciless will be even more potent than Tenora with Primary Deadhead. Brainless AoE weapons will dominate even more since they don't even require a headshot (kill) to trigger the effect and still get the same damage increase. This is increadibly tone-deaf.

Unga bung big stick no damge , will me use big gun now  pew pew ....

The tone-deaf sentiment is what i got from this as well specialy the "accidental trow part" made me laugh a bit.

[AEGZERO]

31 minutes ago, pham5678 said:

if you say about nukor, i know new crit mod will make nukor so OP. and i know the new mods almost replace the old primed mod, i just don't like the way DE throw the old values like a trash. The new is release, become so OP then be neft, and repeat..

That's the reason, DE know melee is OP, but they forgot who made them OP, they don't care about how many effort we put on these weapons, they think their way of gaming is RIGHT and we are WRONG.

[ReasonX]

1分钟前 , Petroklos 说:

People weren't asking for more Damage on Eidolons and Profit Taker, people were asking for more Damage for Guns vs High Levels and Steel Path, and that's what they're getting.

People were also wrong, because what Guns need is AoE, but that's another bucket of worms.

And Heavy Gunners, against most Guns, on Steel Path, are certainly not Trash Units. Nor are Noxes, Bursas, Juggernauts, etc.

As for Demolishers, in the only type of Content that the Galvanized Mods would actually be needed(?), there'll be plenty of Light Units to get the Mods started, Medium Units to keep them active as they start stacking buffs and plenty of any Unit to keep them active, while waiting or hunting for the Demolishers.

The durations may be too short for that specific purpose, but that certainly doesn't make the Mods "useless" as some imply, and it's also something that is impossible for us to know until we test it out.

heat up may means sudden death in Lv.9999 missions. if u dont kill ur enemy in 1 shot, they kill u in 1 shot.

Eidolons sure needs more damage. Otherwise we dont need Rhino or Chroma in group, just let Trinity to kill the eidolons.

[PlanckZero]

Just now, Xydeth said:

the weapon is overpowered. period.

when u release tons of weapons and some are just a 3.0 version of 2 others then u might think about tweaking/nerfing the shuttle so that its back on earth.

But they aren't nerfing it because it is itself overpowered, they're nerfing it because it's peoples preferred status spreader for OP melee builds and instead of actually fixing those OP melee builds they're taking the easy route and screwing over anyone that actually uses the weapon for its own sake.

[Amazerath]

Most of these changes require testing, so there's not much I can say about them. However, I don't see the point in nerfing melee speed mods without increasing the base speed of the slowest melee weapons. You're just going to introduce/aggravate a balance problem within the melee ecosystem, where 'inherently slow weapon = trash' and 'inherently fast weapon = good'. This reduces options instead of increasing them.

 

I also think it's ridiculous that you're talking about game balance and the nerfs are universally applied but the buffs need to be earned in Steel Path. Have you considered that not everyone affected by the nerfs has access to Steel Path yet? Or that not every player is interested in grinding Steel Path and dealing with RNG drops just to have access to the buffs? And that to all these players you're basically just nerfing their power and offering the middle finger in return?

It really feels like this whole "balance" thing is being used to masquerade increased RNG-based grind and to force people to play Steel Path regardless of how boring it is. I've never seen a game developer lock balance adjustments behind grind and RNG. And this makes me wonder if future "balance changes" will involve players opening their wallets and paying money. That seems to be the direction we are going.

[ytz1020]

Condition overload and blood rush nerfs is expected but why nerf berserker.it is just making this mod worthless for slow attack speed weapons due to lack of ability to even kill the first target for that 35% attack speed and 10sec duration just make it even worthless.

Due to the trash nerf of berserker we are forced to use two attack speed mods for comfortability of stances,it means that we are wasting two slots for attack speed instead of one berserker.

The next thing is about obtaining primal fury,it is impossible for newbies to get it and due to the nerfs of berserker we can only use quickening and choose between berserker or fury.It just make newbies impossible to get a comfortable usage of melee.Gram, karyst needs the old berserker due to the slow attack speed.

Nearly impossible usage of berserker in high waves of steel path distruption.First of all the enemy unit is harder to kill due to all this nerfs on melee it just make it even harder to get the 35% buff in 10 sec to keep it running due to all this nerfs on melee .It greatly increase the cost of challenging it as you need to really good attack speed riven to support the poor attack speed melees and rivens is just expensive and not reliable due to its disposition changes time to time and low disposition riven makes it even harder to support weapons like gram.

No matter how high is a weapon's potential damage it needs to hit the enemy to deal damage. Maybe DE you may nerf the duration of berserker itself with the crit proc or increase the duration with kill proc.

 

 

 

[Petroklos]

4 minutes ago, ReasonX said:

heat up may means sudden death in Lv.9999 missions. if u dont kill ur enemy in 1 shot, they kill u in 1 shot.

Eidolons sure needs more damage. Otherwise we dont need Rhino or Chroma in group, just let Trinity to kill the eidolons.

Okay, sure, for Level Cap Missions, these might be a problem. So would be losing all your Combo Multiplier. Simple solution, don't let them run out. If the Buff Durations are too short we can complain about that, but lets actually test it first, eh?

And really now, since when are Level Cap Missions even remotely relevant to the Game's Balancing?

Eidolons don't need more Damage, that's why people can do 5x3s and even more/faster, Solo, with Volt, without infusing Roar. And for regular Squads, they don't need more Damage exactly because People can and should pick a Damage Buffing Frame. Lets not Powercreep the last bastion of Squad Play out of the Game, please.

[NoLazyShadow]

1 час назад, ReasonX сказал:

The ON KILL trigger makes everything useless.

If you dont have enough damage, you cant kill, so you cant trigger this new things.

Endless loop.

If you change those thing to Disable a few seconds ON KILL, i believe it will be much better.

That depends if you have to kill in general or kill with specific weapon. Either way you can find weak grunt, kill him and quickly build up your stacks. Debuffs would aslo play a role here.

It would've been real nice to test it all in the test cluster before pushing the update

[I.V.A.R.A]

So now, in order to do Steel Path, it'll be harder, take longer, and be even worse for already lackluster rewards. On top of that, there will be 7 new arcanes or whatever, that are of course RNG, and likely need 21 each to be effective. It's your answer to everything anymore isn't it? Grind until you just can't take it anymore. 

What a surprise that you are nerfing everything when normal players already only have one choice like being invisible and using octavia to do Steel Path to have a somewhat normal Umbral Forma rewarding. But, all the people who do endurance and stuff make it that much worse for the rest of us. 

I see the galvanized mods also can't be stacked... because... that's all we needed to make guns usable. /s Magically, aiming down scope fixes it all, right? Just look how popular Argon Scope is. We won't be able to complete the 'on kill' because you won't buff all guns by 500% base to make them even close to being capable of handling Steel Path Survival. 

 

[Jarriaga]

Wait.... Hang on a minute.

Does this means Kitguns get to use 2 Arcanes?

[DrLego]

Oh, also, I do appreciate the kuva nukor nerf. It was a very mindful nerf since it still allows us to fight profit taker effectively.

[mrrobotto67]

To be honest, i don't know how much will this change anything in the game, specially if the gunplay buff is just more mods (and arcanes) instead of changes to the actual gunplay. (or a simple change that could be welcomed ... allowing more mods to be fitted on the exilus slot)

[Drichi]

Why do you keep nerfing the weapons i love?

What did the poor kuva nukor do to you!

 

[Jarriaga]

Galvanized mods should get their own slots and work like Melee stances do by boosting mod capacity. Galvanized mods shouldn't clash with their base versions.

[Styx_Prime]

Looking forward to seeing the metrics (Rebb's graphs) after this update goes live! 

[(PSN)Alphonso-Alonso]

1 hour ago, ReasonX said:

when hunting an eidolon, theres no trash unit for you.

when hunting demolist, theres no time for you to find trash unit.

when hunting profit taker, you use chroma and damage is always excessive.

so where Galvanized Mods is useful?

killing heavy gunners?

they are also trash unit, man.

Dude this exactly, DE this is a great example of how conditional mods do not adequately replace or even complement mandatory mods. Geez, that’s a horrifying investment to blow a bunch of essence on...

2 hours ago, Argon-Queen said:

 

So we have to play through the late game content, to get mods, so our guns don't suck at late game content? Wont that just promote the same 'E your way through steel path' issue? The very thing you are giving us these mods to stop doing?

Now hiring for entry level position for Fortune 500 company!

fine print: 7 years experience in project management required. 

[ExZeeL]

I agree with most changes but one: the weekly helminth rotating buff i gotta say i hate it.

I dont like non permanent things, but most importantly, while not really participating at it myself, it will be a great issue for the speedrunning community. Speedrunning is the best when everyone has the exact same tools at their disposal and have to let strategy/skill make the difference. IF the favoriting system let us choose exactly what frame to buff then it s fine but it ll still take 10 weeks to reach that point, and if only a single buff can be used every week, it will increase the time it takes to optimize strategies from empyrical testing with an arbitrary artificial timer.