Dev Workshop: The Arsenal Divide

[Radu10]

2 hours ago, Desgax said:

What I want to know is if DE is going to address the problem of cramped mod capacity. With the addition of exilus weapon slots, high cost Primed mods, riven mods, and of course these new Galvanized mods it wont matter how much forma you put into a weapon, you just simply WONT be able to run all the mods on a build that isn't on a Kuva weapon. Not only that, but it kills being able to have multiple mod loadouts without having to build and forma a separate weapon entirely because you have all the slots polarized for a specific build. Primary and secondary weapons desperately need their version of Aura or Stance slots to allow players who want to invest a lot in their weapon--and have it perform the best it possibly can--will be able to actually do so.

I would suggest make those new arcanes add capacity points to compensate, make those act like aura/stance basically.

So I definitely gonna bump this suggestion!

[Pitvh]

hace 1 minuto, (PSN)Spider_Enigma dijo:

i get 6+ kills a magazine with my karak in steel path... if i cna do it with a kuva karak... then so can u

stop saying guns cant kill...

you miss the point, they nerf melee and say that they balance with useful mods when they are not useful at all, you have existing mods that are better and dont have a requirement to trigger also why to nerf when they can balance old stuff

[-CG-ImMrBloo]

This update looks very promising, you guys have put in some amazing work this past year. Honestly good job!

[(XBOX)CFG SatanDevil]

People are crying if the arcane slots will cost pl.?!  Did you read the first post? How to get them? No? Do it 

[--RV--Hyenah]

So we will go back to the primary and secondary AoE meta, which is basically the same as melee meta but worse because you can deal aoe damage from long range.

It's almost as if most non AoE weapons were not lacking damage, but use cases and purpose outside of fringe boss fight scenarios or nostalgia.

Nobody should ever run a sniper rifle or single fire weapon when the kuva launchers exist. This is coming from a hipster that shoots himself in the foot by running the latron prime and the veldt on a regular basis btw.

People run melee for 3 reasons: It's AoE damage, with no downtime, and it scales.

[Nasheim]

Going to admit that while I didn't expect any such mods to be introduced, the lack of homing or glaive-style (as in, they actually target enemies instead of flying wildly everywhere else coughTetracough) ricocheting bullets (innate or as mods) for at least some guns is still a real disappointment all the same.

Akarius and Cyanex are not exactly great homing weapons, unfortunately.

Let's hope the buffs work out, but Imma be honest here, it feels like a lot of these changes are only going to make the few good guns better and let the bad ones languish in mediocrity... Admittedly, that's better than awfulness, to be fair, but not still not ideal.

[(PSN)Alphonso-Alonso]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)CFG SatanDevil said:

People are crying if the arcane slots will cost pl.?!  Did you read the first post? How to get them? No? Do it 

You have to play a game mode wherein you are already melee nerfed and kill mini bosses to earn V bucks. Use the v bucks to get the thing that will help you kill them faster but only if you replace that thing with a thing in your already insufficient weapon that you struggled to kill the minibosss with in the first place. 
 

And then, one mandatory mod less and throughly gun AND melee nerfed, you get the all powerful benefits of this mod- so long as you kill enemies quickly enough to get the full benefit of this mod.... for 12 seconds... which is cool because it will take twice that amount of time to kill one enemy with all those nerfs stacked up!

k I read it.

 

Indeed that sounds even worse than what everyone else is saying! Thanks for the clarification. I will not waste my v bucks on any of these galvanized mods. 

[rainy]

Was hoping Gun Arcanes meant we could finally get some use out of the Residual and Theorem arcanes. Being restricted to kitguns is unfortunate.

Surprisingly light nerf to Kuva Nukor. No address for it's unique status effect counting for condition overload.

Mixed feelings on the Galvanized mods. I generally dislike conditionals, I prefer weapons to work out of the box. Other than the Galv status mods, the on-kill conditions don't solve the gun issue. the initial killing threshold will still be limited to the initial stats, which for the conditionals are lower. It's a high dependency on momentum. At least the condition durations are mostly generous, except for the scope mod.

The Galvanized scope having two conditions is also too much. But the conditions at least ensure these mods won't be seeing use for some bosses, such as Eidolons.

+Damage stacking between the arcanes and the new mods is kind of a new direction for Warframe. Slots are generally dominated by stats that multiply each other, but we're finally seeing a decent amount of same-stat stacking. The new status mods are the most impressive. The condition is reasonable, and they were already common with status weapons, so it's nice to see those get a mild buff (because they also generally slotted Heavy Caliber or Magnum Force).

Weeping Wounds is still an outlier, vastly outscaling all other status mods in the game. There's no Status 2X for heavy attacks, key for weapons like Arum Spinosa.

Lich Ultimatum I see is the direction this ended up going. Going to depend heavily on how plentiful these are. 

Will need to try them out to make a better judgement. Overall, the Gun-Melee gap has slightly closed just due to the melee mod nerfs. But I think players will be hard-pressed to slot many of these galvanized mods. They seem highly dependent on preference. The arcane slots are kind of freebie buffs, those will be the most important.

[(PSN)Alphonso-Alonso]

11 minutes ago, Pitvh said:

you miss the point, they nerf melee and say that they balance with useful mods when they are not useful at all, you have existing mods that are better and dont have a requirement to trigger also why to nerf when they can balance old stuff

Useful mods that **you have to farm a difficult game mode while nerfed in order to get**
 

Just so we are clear!

[Radu10]

27 minutes ago, GPrime96 said:

This + Bramma would be so fun.

New aoe weapons meta, which will be then nerfed after few months :)

[L1fewater]

Il y a 2 heures, -AxHx-Vile a dit :

So instead of doing direct balancing on the weapons...you're gonna make us do the work by grinding out all these new things and balance them ourselves indirectly.

No thanks.

Damn, looks like you're gonna just have to play the game then :/

[Tehcaro]

In Steelpath, and by Steelpath I mean actually staying in steel path missions longer than 5 mins farming steel essence not new game/star chart+, outside of certain Melee based Warframes the ONLY Solo Melee that was standalone viable is the very busted Glaive builds that was? nuking rooms. All other melee weapons required priming status from another source. In this sense melee changes are completely out of touch with the player base. Basically there is no melee in the game that can self buff status for condition overload for any reasonably viable damage amount.  The hybrid status+critical chance meta needs priming status from a gun to work.

Reducing melee speed will simply remove every slow melee weapon from the game in the minds of the player base. Melee damage would need to be 10x what it is on live for slow a base speed heavy weapon to have a decent time to kill. Putting on kill on Berserker guarantees this. There may be some nice attack animations that you want us to see, but without a major increase in damage, the fastest, most fluid and lest frustrating stance will win-out always. In this sense a new meta is about to be created, just like the old meta but with even less choice as the speed/viability threshold is raised.

On Kill buff mechanics for weapons that are simply not viable to kill in the first place, is a mechanic that is dead in the water. Look at bladed rounds a mod that amplifies the drop off in damage. As when you cant kill you have wasted a mod slot on a buff you cant use, so are doing even less damage, once the drop happens.

I thought the point was to make guns a viable alternative not to make melee non-viable. These feel aimed at keeping the damage in check for the base star chart and fissures not steel path.

These changes seem worryingly wrong and out of place for Warframe.

[exturkconner]

Just now, Radu10 said:

New aoe weapons meta, which will be then nerfed after few months :)

It's probably not going to be good. I bet they screw this the way they screwed arcane pistoleer. AoE and DoT's probably won't proc it only direct damage which means it'll only be like 30% as effective as it'll seem like it should be. If they don't the Kuva Ogris will be absurd.

[T-Shark69]

Are any changes planned for Archguns as well?

Edit : Reb replied here.

[xcrimsonlegendx]

1 hour ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

Sad about Glaive Throw Timing increase

the extra delay is gonna mess with my flow personally

and no, i never had a problem with 'accidentally throwing my glaive'

why would I ever Not Want to Throw in the first place?

Same here, never had a problem accidentally throwing my thrown weapon...

Now it takes twice as long to charge, its just going to make glaves feel more cumbersome, which sucks because the entire point of the glavie rework was to increase the flow of glaive combat. The pre-charging your throws, the air throws, the slide throws, all done to make glaives feel more fluid and natural. Now we double the charge time and slow them back down.

[Radu10]

5 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Beserker Fury, cannot stack with Fury.
On Melee Kill:
+35% Attack Speed (Max 70%)  for 10s. Stacks up to 2x.

I can understand this change but duration seems too low now, why not make it 20s?

[(XBOX)CFG SatanDevil]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb (PSN)Alphonso-Alonso:

You have to play a game mode wherein you are already melee nerfed and kill mini bosses to earn V bucks. Use the v bucks to get the thing that will help you kill them faster but only if you replace that thing with a thing in your already insufficient weapon that you struggled to kill the minibosss with in the first place. 
 

And then, one mandatory mod less and throughly gun AND melee nerfed, you get the all powerful benefits of this mod- so long as you kill enemies quickly enough to get the full benefit of this mod.... for 12 seconds... which is cool because it will take twice that amount of time to kill one enemy with all those nerfs stacked up!

k I read it.

 

Indeed that sounds even worse than what everyone else is aging! Thanks for the clarification. I will not waste my v bucks on any of these galvanized mods. 

? I’m talking about people who doesn’t read how to get the slots, instead reading they are crying and say it will cost pl. 
 

I’m excited how much the mods are. 
also the arcanes, if they drop randomly or like a rotation in endless missions 

[VOIDMUZYOKA]

It is unlikely that these changes will pay off for LATRON PRIME

[WingZeroPrime33]

I'm glad you only nerfed 3 melee mods and didn't touch melee itself.  I am looking forward to trying out those new arcanes and mods.

[Mixnek]

This video is age-restricted and only available on YouTube.

Don't age-restrict it or upload to another platform (host yourself), because I'm not sending YT my I.D. Nor should anyone else.

[MobyTheDuck]

So in short:

- Berserker is dead, long live Primed Fury

- Glaives will be slower and weaker, Gunblades are back in the meta menu

- Bad guns will stay bad, good guns will hog all the bonuses and stay meta

- Kuva Nukor is getting nerfed because you wanted to buff guns (???)

- The avoid stale meta, you will release high drain mods that require yet more forma and arcanes that cant be used unless you pay/grind for an unlocker, which will make people focus on the stale meta weapons even more

- Gun mods will have ON KILL instead of ON HIT, which will make them less useful on high level missions (like Steel Path) and completely useless against bosses and hunters

- Melee mods will be nerfed because its easier than fixing guns

- Holster speed wont be changed, bandaids will stay

Basically, melee will get a small nerf, but will stay meta. One step forwards, one slip followed by tumbling down back to where we were.

[UnluckyWolfie]

I really think that nerfing Blood rush is only gonna grow the disparity between weapons that have good crit and weapons that dont even more

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

Im unsure if these changes will help or make guns more powerful than melee, as it's hard to do the numbers in my head

Id just need to see a few DPS comparisons across the strongest weapons with the best build, and half or fully has all of its buffs ramped up, to primary and secondary weapons (so this data should include some status effects as well). GMakes it much easier to see whats actually going on.

 

Ive seen some really good points about how mods can make things worse when its too universal too. Adding 100% damage to a weapon that deals 10 damage, actually reads "Adding 10 flat damage to a weapon that deals 10 damage", so in both scenarios its just bringing you to 20 damage. However, on a weapon that deals 1,000 damage, you'd be adding a flat 1,000 damage to it which massively higher than 10. That means that with the right stats, 1 mod can make 1 weapon a little stronger, and another EXTREMLY powerful. Base stats are extremely important

If all of this was considered though, and things are working as intended but people are still saying weapons are too underpowered, i think we seriously need a teir list. Because if things are working as intended, this means that some these weapons have a sort of power cap that they are meant to be at (AKA a teir). Properly addressing it as its power cap, tier, enemy level reccomendation cap, whatever; could do well to silence those who feel a weapon is supposed to be stronger when its not.

But if every weapon is supposed to be usable and not too much more powerful than the other, theres a lot of weapons that are left behind that rivens arent fixing and need looking into. In warframe, its a weapon's DPS value at max buffs (and some status effects) that decides which weapon will be Top teir, and which wont. So if every weapon is supposed to be able to be powerful, the average DPS value of our most powerful weapons with the best mod build, must be met in some way. Either 1,000 or 2,000 damage below or greater than that average value imo (DE can decided how far weapons should vary from the avg value). If you go too far away from that value, the weapon will either result in being just "MrFodder" or "Power Creep"

Of course ammo can act as way to reduce dps as well

[Traumtulpe]

3 hours ago, Rage_Inducer said:

Can theorems and residuals be deleted, please? They are so clunky to use and so incredibly underwhelming. All they do is dillute the droptables.

That is what they were made for. Working as intended.

[(PSN)palebluelight]

Without significant changes to gun play this is just destroying what little you do well. Gun play is terrible no one plays this for the gunplay melee is far more optimal and rewarding. These changes don’t encourage using your head in an engagement they really just try to make gunplay as mindless as melee. Without a challenging ai and CONTENT this is just wasted effort. Guess I’ll go back to being a guardian.