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Dev Workshop: The Arsenal Divide


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3 hours ago, Rage_Inducer said:

Can theorems and residuals be deleted, please? They are so clunky to use and so incredibly underwhelming. All they do is dillute the droptables.

That is what they were made for. Working as intended.

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Without significant changes to gun play this is just destroying what little you do well. Gun play is terrible no one plays this for the gunplay melee is far more optimal and rewarding. These changes don’t encourage using your head in an engagement they really just try to make gunplay as mindless as melee. Without a challenging ai and CONTENT this is just wasted effort. Guess I’ll go back to being a guardian. 

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These mods look fine, but they don't really fix the core problem of the gun/melee imbalance, they only band-aid patch them. Mods like these affect all guns multiplicatively, powerful guns will become far more powerful than a weaker gun ever could with these mods.

They're also mods, which means having to fit them into old builds somehow, and that becomes more and more difficult with the same slots. Maybe Steel Path could offer slot extensions, but I suppose that's what the arcanes are intended for, in which case hopefully there will be more selection in the future

The initial grind to get them will also be (apparently) intentionally more difficult now if they're Steel Path honors. So we get these mods to make end-game feel more balanced, but you have to play end-game to get them... Unless you happen to have essence saved from previous games. Just seems a little ironic

Was hoping there would be a more "initial" buff to guns, rather than mods that offer a small buff with the condition that you "work for" the end-buff. Which I can see as a compromise, just not what I was expecting at the offered solution

Edited by pakakupakaku
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The new arcanes may nullify the intended nerf to Kuva Nukor. Slap on the precision arcane for it, and having the halved chains is going to mean nothing when it can now deal 360% increased damage after 3 headshot kills.

Also, the primary non-precision kill arcane is going to make Kuva Ogris OP. Kill a couple enemies, suddenly you're carpet-bombing the entire map.

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hace 13 minutos, (PSN)Alphonso-Alonso dijo:

Useful mods that **you have to farm a difficult game mode while nerfed in order to get**
 

Just so we are clear!

if they were useful at least XD, not so difficult to me with all these nerf but i get that some people is having a hard time, I am empathetic. But the idea is that is no worth it like you said.

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Agree with everything else, but:

5 minutes ago, MobyTheDuck said:

- Gun mods will have ON KILL instead of ON HIT, which will make them less useful on high level missions (like Steel Path) and completely useless against bosses and hunters

I've seen this thrown around a lot, but which bosses don't have adds to kill? Maybe Eidolons since Voms won't trigger On Kill, but anything else? And how often do you fight bosses anyways? And hunters show up around other enemies too. Shoot the adds instead.

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So Warframe is shifting to a shooter from the hack and slash it's been for years. Will be interesting to see if players really will be persuaded to use guns more.

I think players will soldier on with melee because it still seems useable, at least until youtube videos emerge showing 40k endo for a new R10 mod is worthwhile.

Competing for kills in multiplayer before a 20 second buff is wiped out might get old pretty quick.

They'll be selling a lot of plat this year as we'll be needing a lot of forma not just for the new weapons but levelling up old ones too.

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I personally hate stacking effects, especially on such short timers.  Having my stats swing so wildly if the flow of enemies lulls even slightly isn't even slightly pleasant.

I also feel like these big fat mod costs don't take into account how tight the capacity is on primaries and secondaries already, to the point where I was hoping to see something akin to an aura/stance mod slot, rather than all this.  Arcanes at least don't take up space, but I'm still side-eyeing those mods, and don't expect I'll be trying to fit them in on too many weapons.

Despite all that, I don't expect these inevitable changes are going to ruin my experience, but I do feel like I'm personally not going to vibe with them, and expect they'll just lead to more things becoming more broken without fixing very much.  I do hope I'm wrong, but I feel like I've been playing this game long enough by now to have a proper feel for these kinds of things at this point.

Edited by ArcusVeles
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One thing that these changes don't do is help worse weapons be viable. I think in this regard it might be a good idea to add mods that, instead of giving % increases, instead increase the base critical chance, and status chance, and maybe critical damage (mutually exclusive with % increases), so that weapons with say good critical but bad status can still be built for status and thus will not be restricted to one definitive build for each gun like we see is the case for most primaries now because of hunter munitions.

Speaking of which, statuses also in my opinion need another revisit. Slash and Viral are very powerful and useful compared to things like magnetic, gas, and toxin, to the point where most people would never make a build around them.

Another thing that worries me is that removing melee speed stacking seems like its intended to get slower weapons, like the Gram Prime for example, to focus more on heavy attack builds. I don't know if its just me, but heavy attack builds just don't quite feel as streamlined to me, (that might just be preference).

All that being said, I'm greatly looking forward to seeing how much these changes turn the meta on its head.

One last thing, New Two-Handed Nikana stance when? ;3

Edited by DerbinKlamz
I thought of another concern to voice
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Il y a 2 heures, PlanckZero a dit :

Why not balance the mods/systems we already have rather than more new mods? Instead of more endo/credits spent! More forma on EVERYTHING!

Want to make guns more powerful? Give them arcanes? Give? Unlock those arcane slots with EVEN MORE GRINDING!

Also for no reason nerf all glaives and the Nukor.

Melee gets instantly nerfed across the board but is there an instant buff to primary and secondary weapons to make up the difference and encourage people to use them more?

If you actually want your guns to be powerful you better go grind for these new mods, grind to rank them up, grind more forma, grind for arcanes, grind for arcane slots grind grind grind grind grind.

Damn, guess we have to play the game and grind the new mods/arcanes in the game to start to close the gap :/ 

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56 minutes ago, (PSN)Spider_Enigma said:

its x2-x5 for 12secs not x12

Primary/Secondary Merciless in the original post both say +30% damage for 6s. Stacks up to x12.

Those two Arcanes are what I was talking about.

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7 minutes ago, Pitvh said:

if they were useful at least XD, not so difficult to me with all these nerf but i get that some people is having a hard time, I am empathetic. But the idea is that is no worth it like you said.

Same, same, but there’s got to be plenty of people already struggling as it is and this is the last thing they want to hear lol. 

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5 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

EDIT: FAQ:

This FAQ section will be updated throughout the next week and beyond!


Can you buy Arcane Unlockers with Platinum?

- No, this is not a Platinum Market item. They are earned items through the Steel Path Honor’s store for 15 Steel Essence each.

Where do the new Arcanes Drop?

- Acolytes on The Steel Path have a 100% chance to drop 1 of the 6 new Arcanes. 

Do Kitguns get 2 Arcane Slots?

- Yes, one for Pax only, one for the new Arcanes! 

 

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2 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Primary/Secondary Merciless in the original post both say +30% damage for 6s. Stacks up to x12.

Those two Arcanes are what I was talking about.

oh, my mistake, you are correct, but people think guns cant kill to trigger it anyways lol

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If you want to nerf the melee mod.
The stats of more than a majority of melee need to be enhanced.
(Most guns, as well as most melee, are underperforming in high-level play.)

And that includes Glaves (not Glave), which are among the melee stats that need to be enhanced.
I think it's too crude to just look at the top of the genre and weaken everything.

Also, this tweak doesn't address the disconnect between AoE weapons and non-AoE guns.
In other words, all but melee and a handful of guns will remain helpless.
Why not make many mods more effective on non-AoE guns, just like the fire rate mod is twice as effective on bows?

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2 minutes ago, kinoko_takenoko said:

If you want to nerf the melee mod.
The stats of more than a majority of melee need to be enhanced.
(Most guns, as well as most melee, are underperforming in high-level play.)

And that includes Glaves (not Glave), which are among the melee stats that need to be enhanced.
I think it's too crude to just look at the top of the genre and weaken everything.

Also, this tweak doesn't address the disconnect between AoE weapons and non-AoE guns.
In other words, all but melee and a handful of guns will remain helpless.
Why not make many mods more effective on non-AoE guns, just like the fire rate mod is twice as effective on bows?

what do u mean underperforming? 

what is reasonable performance? 

what is high level?

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Well... I have mixed thoughts about these changes but I do hope DE would do the right decision. As said, the divide on primaries and secondaries from melee weapons are already great. Would it be wise if devs could tone down the nerfs and buffs? Where us players would absorb and accept it slowly?

In my opinion, the new mods and arcanes for the primary and secondary is good but i think its a little too much for us players to swallow. Considering there are players that arent able to farm in longer periods. They likely would be left out. Also considering we need to grind endo and credits for the mods is already time consuming and repetitive. Also, we have other things to tend to outside the game.

For the melee nerfs, majority of the players really do like spamming E or any melee related stuff. Touching what people enjoy could really make them think badly/negative toward you devs. Even irl, we really dislike people touching the things we like. So, it would be great if whoever incharged of these changes rather than nerfing melee would bridge the gap between guns and melee. 

Im MR 26 I dont have a problem on how grindy this game is. My only concern are the other players. Ive met players that most of them would like just to enjoy the game. Temporary escaping reality. But from what I experienced and heard from them, it just adds up to their problems. Which isnt great tbh. Today, enjoyment is mainstream. Too much grind would kill fun.

Say, keep the new stuff for the guns but add something that would synergize with melee? Or buff the current gun mods so itll slightly match the damage output of melee? 

I still believe on you DE. Especially what DE Steve said "its gonna be a good year". I do hope this update would turn out well even though most of the comments here are somehow negative. 

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I am really not fond of everything being "on kill". That makes these modes a lot less useful against Liches and other bosses. Also the scope mod still requiring a headshot is annoying, because not everything has a head, (dropships, turrets and such) Maybe instead of on kill, you could do chance on hit? Maybe you could make argon scope and such be "While aiming?" (Like the archgun version)

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6 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

EDIT: FAQ:

This FAQ section will be updated throughout the next week and beyond!


Can you buy Arcane Unlockers with Platinum?

- No, this is not a Platinum Market item. They are earned items through the Steel Path Honor’s store for 15 Steel Essence each.

Where do the new Arcanes Drop?

- Acolytes on The Steel Path have a 100% chance to drop 1 of the 6 new Arcanes. 

Do Kitguns get 2 Arcane Slots?

- Yes, one for Pax only, one for the new Arcanes! 

Thanks for clearing this up

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5 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Do Kitguns get 2 Arcane Slots?

- Yes, one for Pax only, one for the new Arcanes! 

Not going to lie, I would prefer if all guns just gained access to the kitgun arcanes. The current pool of three arcanes is pretty lackluster and some of them would add some much needed diversity to existing weapons that aren't just raw number boosts.

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Please stop using on-kill effects on things that should supposedly work in high-level content, this effect is not comfortable nor fun to use, if you can kill the enemies then you most likely don't need this effect, if you can't then the effect is useless.

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