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Dev Workshop: The Arsenal Divide


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Galvanized mods and the new Arcanes are a neat way to bridge the gap... but it's still power creep instead of a good "stat squish". But then, a squish would look like a massive nerf and the player base wouldn't tolerate that, I think. This, with the melee nerf, is a reasonable compromise.

However, I hate that the entry point into this "better guns" is Steel Path alone. I understand that this is the part of the game where this needs to be addressed the most, but it has the issue that it still makes melee the best way to do Steel Path until you finished grinding the new arcanes/mods. So by the time you've finally grinded all of this, you're already at the point where you don't need them any longer.

Furthermore, there are so many activities in Warframe that have underwhelming drops, this could've been dropped right in here to reinvigorate these activities - add them to the points of interest in Railjack (which is kind of high-level content), add them to arbitrations, to liches, add them to Deimos vaults and so on - in addition to Steel Path.

That way, these game modes are refreshed - which they need anyway - and you provide a gentler entry point into the system. Then, by adding them to Steel Path as planned, you add a secondary way to access them for those who managed to get their favourite gun working - and now they can farm Steel Path for more.

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4 hours ago, Aldain said:

...Here we go with the power creep.

So many of those mods/arcanes stack too many times, seriously...30% times 12 on that arcane is just insane...also it will flat out make the Kuva Bramma and other such AoE weapons even more insane, even if you put them behind Steel Path they're obscene.

The Galvanized mods also aren't sidegrades, they're flat out better after ramp up, which is the exact problem you just tried to fix with Condition Overload, especially the Status Chance ones.

Edit: Also while this is all well and good for Steel Path, it just reinforces that the baseline content of the game is intended to be an effortless AoE fest.

DE, I love you guys, but this doesn't solve the Arsenal divide, it just reinforces aspects of it.

We've come full circle. 6 years ago DE was adament on nerfing weapons, mods, and abilities that created an AoE fiesta (Tonkor, Synoid Simulor, Telos Boltace, Miasma, Bladestorm, Greedy Pull, etc). Now? They are embracing that because this is where the bar has been lowered. DE is removing more and more thought behind your gameplay and arsenal choices. Mindless gameplay is the future DE is heading since Warframe Revised and I'm not even surprised. Likewise, Dev Workshops are more "this is what's coming and we have already committed" rather than some WIP idea brainstorming that searches for feedback. Undoing most of the justified nerfs over the years in addition to the nerfed enemies is disappointing. I rather see DE have more of a backbone like in 2015/2016 with balance decisions than now where they give in to people wanting trivial gameplay (See Railjack enemy scaling, Command Intrinsics, Plains of Eidolon Remaster, Warframe Revised, Railjack Revised, and now this upcoming update).

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Kuva Nukor

We are indeed touching 1 non-Melee item in the series of Nerfs, and likely to no one’s surprise it’s the Kuva Nukor. It’s a dominant Secondary with incredible power, which is warranted given its acquisition. It’ll keep all of its signature behaviour, but the general output is being notched down slightly with the following change:
- Chains targets reduced to 2 from 4

You guys missed the mark here. Sure, the chaining is good, but the hidden Microwave status effect and extremely high chaining damage multiplier is really what's at fault. These differences are what make Kuva Nukor extreme and Gaze pretty balanced. Reducing the number of chained targets doesn't suddenly make Kuva Nukor less of a choice for AoE secondary.

Edited by Voltage
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8 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Can you buy Arcane Unlockers with Platinum?

- No, this is not a Platinum Market item. They are earned items through the Steel Path Honor’s store for 15 Steel Essence each.

Are you sure these will REMAIN Steel Path Honors only, or will they eventually make their way to the Platinum Market akin to the Railjack when the Railjack Rework was introduced?

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22 minutes ago, (PSN)palebluelight said:

Without significant changes to gun play this is just destroying what little you do well. Gun play is terrible no one plays this for the gunplay melee is far more optimal and rewarding. These changes don’t encourage using your head in an engagement they really just try to make gunplay as mindless as melee. Without a challenging ai and CONTENT this is just wasted effort. Guess I’ll go back to being a guardian. 

destiny has only 1 gunplay, get headshots with hand cannons

there is no other gunplay unless its crucible, then it becomes a shotgun fest 

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5 minutes ago, (PSN)NFMVPT78 said:

Can anybody explain why os the vídeo age restricted??????

Warframe is a M rated game and so the media must be restricted as such. Logging in with your Google account (GMail) will allow you to see the video.

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18 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

I've seen this thrown around a lot, but which bosses don't have adds to kill?

Lephantis, Vor (not many), Tyl Regor, Juggernaut, Jackal, Kela... I am sure I am missing some

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2 minutes ago, Digressive said:

Warframe is a M rated game and so the media must be restricted as such. Logging in with your Google account (GMail) will allow you to see the video.

ALL of the past videos don't have this issue... Just this new one.

KgjGES3.png

Edited by SephirothWS
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12 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

You know you now have TWO age-required (and subsequently BROKEN embeds) within the main post, right?

 

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4 minutes ago, Digressive said:

Warframe is a M rated game and so the media must be restricted as such. Logging in with your Google account (GMail) will allow you to see the video.

That's what I thought too until I researched and apparently people from the EU have to put their ID / credit card information. It kinda sucks.

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/10070779?hl=en#zippy=%2Cif-youre-in-the-european-union-eu-european-economic-area-eea-switzerland-or-united-kingdom

"The Audiovisual Media Services Directive (AVMSD) is an EU-wide coordination of national legislation on audiovisual media – both traditional TV broadcasts and on-demand services. Recently, AVMSD was revised to extend certain rules to video sharing platforms (VSPs). 

In line with AVMSD, you may be asked to re-verify your date of birth when watching age-restricted videos. Follow the prompts to submit an image of a valid ID or credit card. Learn more about what we do with your ID/credit card. 

For more info on AVMSD, check out this website"

Edited by (XBOX)C11H22O11
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4 minutes ago, Drichi said:

Lets be 100% clear: People like me (MR30 ot at least +20) aren't going to chain combos switching weapons.

We are too lazy for that, we stick to the strongest weapon, and spam it.

Why do you believe that we don't use faction damage mods? LAZINESS

Why are the AOE weapons favored? LAZINESS

Why we stick to one button win? LAZINESS

If you want the "normal" guns to be used, add some AOE damage mods, problem solved. guaranteed

Hey man, MR30 here, don't speak for all of us cause that's not true :)

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5 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Glaives

 

In late 2020, we reworked the Glaive melee class to be more powerful and comfortable to use. Overall, we feel these changes had their intended effect as weapons like the Glaive Prime skyrocketed from obscurity to the top of the pile with their newfound ability to inflict huge damage using heavy attacks.

 

However, these changes also introduced a common issue: players with high melee attack speed would sometimes accidentally throw their Glaives when trying to perform simple melee strikes, and the “catch and release” mechanic sometimes resulted in multiple unintended throws. In reviewing our Melee system, we felt it was a good opportunity to address this concern, while also doing a balancing pass to reflect the power in this newly reworked melee class.

 

That said, our two changes to Glaives go hand in hand: 

 

First, the heavy attack wind-up speed is being increased from 0.6 seconds to 1.2 seconds. With more time on the wind-up, it is much harder to accidentally throw when you are trying to swing.

 

With this increased wind-up speed, players are also more capable of performing quick throws. Right now the damage on quick throws is very close to fully charged, so in order to encourage more meaningful choice, our second change is to reduce quick throw damage to approximately 50% of the maximum charge. Exact number changes are as follows:

 

Cerata

Direct Hit Damage from 366 to 201

Radial Damage from 549 to 333

Falcor

Direct Hit Damage from 460 to 250

Radial Damage from 690 to 345

Glaive

Direct Hit Damage from 210 to 116

Radial Damage from 315 to 190

Glaive Prime

Direct Hit Damage from 328 to 180

Radial Damage from 492 to 296

Halikar

Direct Hit Damage from 298 to 163

Radial Damage from 447 to 225

Halikar Wraith

Direct Hit Damage from 503 to 263

Radial Damage from 621 to 329

Kestrel

Direct Hit Damage from 168 to 92

Radial Damage from 252 to 126

Orvius

Direct Hit Damage from 390 to 215

Radial Damage from to 520 to 293

Pathocyst

Direct Hit Damage from 524 to 288

Radial Damage from 786 to 393

Xoris

Direct Hit Damage from 240 to 120

Radial Damage from 480 to 250

Putting aside the weird change to separate Berserker from crit (the choice between Primed Fury and it was already there for pure status melee) I'll comment on the glaives.

The "throw" builds for glaives were already not popular, what everyone decided to use was the heavy attack build.
Now with the nerf to blood rush, direct damage hits in general, and a slower wind up speed (which effects throw speed, they're the same thing for some reason still), the glaive throw builds will be entirely dead. 

They already had to waste a few mod slots just to correct what should be inherent bounce mechanics, and were already clunky because they don't have the Cedo's amazing enemy tracking.

Instead of at least making attack speed apply to the throw animation like it should, you just nerf wind-up speed and leave things the same.
Meaning Killing Blow will maintain its double whammy spot for increasing both the slow wind-up speed and the heavy explosion damage for heavy only builds.

Kudos. Truly awful in this case.

<>

On a side-note, where are the projectile speed/beam range galvanized mods for the other gun types?

And on a side-side note, a few builds already can't fit in every mod they want, even with 9 perfectly forma'd slots.
Will there be gun "stance" mods eventually to increase the capacity to 70 like with melee?

If not, then you NEED to lower the cost of certain high cost mods, because now it will be even more of an issue once these new mods hit.
If someone spends the resources to perfectly forma every slot on gun, they should be able to fit the build they're going for. 
Period.

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10 minutes ago, --RV--Cola said:

if you can kill the enemies then you most likely don't need this effect, if you can't then the effect is useless.

For some reason my quote didn’t work let’s try this again

thats better-

 

This is pretty much the end of the conversation here. It can’t be stated any more logically than that. The mods are good on paper but will be a instant source of buyers remorse in practice.

Edited by (PSN)Alphonso-Alonso
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The main weapon of the space ninja is a melee weapon, and I think it was nerfed too much, 33% of each of the most used mods weakened this strong blow to players who loved melee weapons, including me

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8 minutes ago, Voltage said:

We've come full circle. 6 years ago DE was adament on nerfing weapons, mods, and abilities that created an AoE fiesta (Tonkor, Synoid Simulor, Telos Boltace, Miasma, Bladestorm, Greedy Pull, etc).

-sigh- Maybe in another 6 years we'll be on the other side of the circle again.

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1 minute ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

Look now everyone can be a Saryn. Will Ferrell Reaction GIF

Yep.

I wouldn't be surprised if the new mods and arcanes got nerfed shortly after release, in fact I expect it to happen.

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1 minute ago, ShortCat said:

Lephantis, Vor (not many), Tyl Regor, Juggernaut, Jackal, Kela... I am sure I am missing some

Strictly and functionally speaking, Lephantis summons adds, Vor gives you a handy stack of them for each invulnerability-gate, and Kela allows you to spawn them at will by just going downstairs which triggers balls in your face. I think Jugg can spawn dudes from its carpet or something when it feels like it.

Functionally, Tyl's manics won't cut it with his long 'fight dramatic' delays, Jackal I don't think spawns enough test dummy Moas to really rely on.

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3 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

Yep.

I wouldn't be surprised if the new mods and arcanes got nerfed shortly after release, in fact I expect it to happen.

And then the outrage about “muH TimE inVestMenT” shortly after.  And the saga continues. 

Edited by (XBOX)YoungGunn82
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I think 5 minute timer for Steel Essences can be a bit lower in large map in endless missions if players decide to play in different parts of It. Maybe a 10 minute timer should be better, to avoid that someone that you are in premade was afk for 5-10 minutes and then come again.

 

If you are playing with friends, AFKing is not a problem, as you are in constant comunication with them and you wont leave a mission to f*** your friend, unless you are any of those friends that lick to punish each other....

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This REEKS of monetization; Grind the Arcane Unlock via Steel Path or buy it for Platinum.  Grind Steel Path for the Arcanes or buy them with Platinum from other players.  

On-Kill mechanics are stupid; Bosses?  You can't trigger the On-kill effects fighting bosses to the level you can clearing rooms; so, in effect, everything get's nerfed vs. things like Lephantis.  Steel Path, similarly; getting the first kill to start the cycle can be a pain in the ass, and oh no, you didn't kill a dude in time, back to the start.

Melee had sustainable wind up and go.  Primary/Secondary needed sustainable wind up and go.  On-Kill is antithesis to this, annoying and dumb.

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2 hours ago, Crossfire78 said:

You do realize you double (maybe even tripple) nerfed Melee and with that sooo much more than you let it sound like?

I use Dual Blades and how the current mods are, I can reach red crits only with Decontructor, otherwise i have yellow and orange.

Thanks to your changes i fear i will be able to only orange with deconstructor, which sucks in SP cuz Helios dies in the first 10 min but hey... y'all have no interest in a meaningful companion overhaul and instead just react on something a youtuber showed off...

If you at least would have changed the mods so they fit their melee class better but nope... general change because!

And then you put Arcanes onn primaries and secondaries?

So just another Exilus slot Melee users are begging you for for years now?

Also, will kitguns now have 2 arcane slots?

Or did you "overlook" that yet again?

You effed the glaive rework and now everybody has to suffer cuz you can't go back there?

 

Not looking forward to that update... not one bit :-(

Colors too op :/

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il y a 7 minutes, Digressive a dit :

Logging in with your Google account (GMail) will allow you to see the video.

Unless you wholeheartedely (?) agree to give Google your Credit Card creditentials or a picture of an Identity Paper some that aren't even officially recognized, but whatever

Sure...There is absolutely no reason to worry about personal data being made public :BaniraScared:

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