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Dev Workshop: The Arsenal Divide


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4 minutes ago, LidarPrime said:

I know there are strong weapons that just 1 blood rush can reach our beloved red critical, but not all weapons can reach with just 1 mod. I also understand that some melee weapons nerfs were required, but I believe these changes will break a lot of weapons.

I'll give the example of the Rakta Dark Dagger that I use due to its passive (that makes me able to abuse the shield gating): with blood rush it only reaches 91% critical chance, I can't even see the orange letters! But I can still start using it and have fun, because most of the moves will give critical and with the condition + berseker + weeping combo the weapon can deal damage in the late game

This level of nerf will create a chasm between good and bad weapons, it will depend much more on the base attributes of the weapon. In other words I will no longer be able to play with the different possibilities that the game gives me in the late game (RIP. Rakta Dark Dagger). My dagger is just one example... there are LOTS of bad melee weapons in the game and you can use them due to these mods.

I believe that if the desire is to increase the variations in our arsenal, the ideal would be to replicate what was done in the past. Bad weapons were revived using the condition + berseker + weeping + blood combo. Why not create strong and similar combos for the primary and secondary weapons as well and make them competitive?

I have the same opinion, unfortunately some weapons that are interesting due to some passive or synergy but that weren't blessed with strong base attributes or good base damage distribution in the correct elements will be heavily affected by these changes. Decreasing the possibilities of our arsenal

I like the idea of making primary and secondary weapons more relevant, but I'd like that without making other weapons less interesting.

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All you really did here was make lower tier melees require rivens even more, while making the Kuva Bramma even more meta. Oh and thanks for adding another reason to play (ignore) the steel path.

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15 minutes ago, Ms_Salami said:

Why pay SE for these ones and not any other arcane slot? 15 steel essence for how may weapons? Why limit limiting the play list of weapons we use in SP?

So that you can thoroughly enjoy those melee nerfs while scraping together 15 steel essence for the privilege of scraping together XX amount of steel essence to buy the new arcane that will go into the slot. 
 

and if you feel as though your mod load out is not quite up to snuff? Don’t worry about that. For an additional XX steel essence you get to remove a useful mod and replace it with a mod that will only trigger once you kill something that was already a challenge to kill while fully modded. 
 

it’s like everything got a nerf at once :D!

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1 hour ago, Monolake said:

Good guns already wipe most mobs with no problem and will only get more OP. Weak guns will still remain weak and unused. 

Players will always find the one gun they like, then find ways to maximize it.

K-Nukor just happened, to be one of the 'easy' guns for that. 

 

Right now with Primed Fulmination+Epitaph already imo, compeats with it as a secondary. Maybe not as many procs but to apply to a wide area quickly? heh 

CO nerf hidden plain as day.

Edited by Shadowradiance
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Condition overload: From 1080% to 240% (using magnetic nukor and your melee)

Blood rush: from 660% CC to 440% CC

Condition overload nerf seems a bit too much

Parazon: Never will work, we already can do finishers using naramon dash without requirements (no impact, no health check, just go a perfom a finisher) and nobody use it, everyone is spaming E or using weapons in AOE

Rip my 4 nukors and my 20 formas there

I kinda agree with those nerfs, some of them specially condition overload seems to be super heavy, but let see...

 

 

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29 минут назад, (PSN)GOTWIC сказал:

I know that, but why nerf it like that lmao, Plus, like you mentioned, it wasn't in the notes lol

Because these notes are about melee nerf arsenal "rebalance". And because they clearly stated that everything here will require insane amounts of SE, so saying it out loud that SE farm will be nerfed will cause even bigger backlash. DE's smart... not really, no.

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2 minutes ago, anfuerudo said:

Because these notes are about melee nerf arsenal "rebalance". And because they clearly stated that everything here will require insane amounts of SE, so saying it out loud that SE farm will be nerfed will cause even bigger backlash. DE's smart... not really, no.

lmao

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"Steel Path will never have content you HAVE to play it for, it will just be a challenging optional mode" ~you guys, paraphrased.

Well, I find the whole change list laughable. A whole bunch of stuff locked to Steel Path farming, a bunch of nerfs to make you suck more at fighting high level enemies, no changes that the game actually needs for long-term improvement, more bandaid solutions, more layers of clutter.

You know, I was almost getting a bit sad that I've been on hiatus from WF for so long, but now I feel a lot better just letting it die completely. RIP my favourite game, it's been a long and slow death but I hope one day it's reborn without all the mess as WF2

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My Opinion on this:

  • The 3 Melee mod nerfs are acceptable, I see why they would be nerfed, but that is still only part of the main problem.
  • Glaive nerfs made sense, uncharged throws doing a lot of damage is not balanced, but once again, part of the main problem that wasnt looked at
  • No Melee stat nerfs were said, which is the problem thats causing this huge divide. You can add all the damage buffing mods and arcanes you like, but it matters to nothing when I can equip this X melee weapon, which deals Thousands of points of damage in mere seconds, and spam the E button to literally eviscerate enemies with slash procs and elemental damage.

One other thing I also didnt see, no changes done to IPS or Elemental status. The 2 main Status Procs that kill enemies the fastest is Slash procs and Viral Procs, and as long as those 2 are kept the way they are, most of these new mods and arcanes won't really matter.(Specifically looking at Hunter Munitions and Viral Combo, its just too useful).

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1 hour ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

Strictly and functionally speaking, Lephantis summons adds, Vor gives you a handy stack of them for each invulnerability-gate, and Kela allows you to spawn them at will by just going downstairs which triggers balls in your face. I think Jugg can spawn dudes from its carpet or something when it feels like it.

Functionally, Tyl's manics won't cut it with his long 'fight dramatic' delays, Jackal I don't think spawns enough test dummy Moas to really rely on.

You forget that in a full squad and depending on used frames you'll barely be able kille 1/2 enemies at time during a bossfight.

We have to race against team mates for a weapon buff! Not really the best idea, a combo counter for primary and secondary would've been much better and would've been lot more inline with the current melee meta.

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Kind of hate how  - damage numbers are being halved in glaives. (and that wasn't important enough to mention in the Dev video. I guess this is the F.U. I deserve for saying, "Xoris is Life," all this time. T -T I guess I'll take what I said back, now.

Why couldn't this development be purely additive? Why does the update have to take away from the game? Why Couldn't the primary/secondary arcanes and the Galvanized mods be enough! Now it looks like we won't even get to see how broken and FUN building a kuva Nukor arcane build can be. DE has not done very much to make me dislike them, but this update promises to be different.

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5 hours ago, Goldenrevolver8 said:

quickening still exists. so you can run quickening and berserker for 40%+70%=110% instead of primed fury and berserker for 55%+75%=130%. they didn't prevent stacking attack speed mods, they just made berserker a fury variation. so this is not a big change

You're implying Berserker is additive to Fury. It's currently multiplicative. Making them additive is healthy. Restricting stacking heavily reduces melee attack speed across the board.

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il y a 15 minutes, Radu10 a dit :

a combo counter for primary and secondary would've been much better and would've been lot more inline with the current melee meta.

Another idea I got not long ago, was reversing the combo counter

I mean, high melee combo counter means you use your melee a lot...so why not make guns do gun things better the lower your melee combo is ?

 

Edit: fixed typos

Edited by Astral_AEther
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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Can you buy Arcane Unlockers with Platinum?

- No, this is not a Platinum Market item. They are earned items through the Steel Path Honor’s store for 15 Steel Essence each.

Where do the new Arcanes Drop?

- Acolytes on The Steel Path have a 100% chance to drop 1 of the 6 new Arcanes

This is admittedly weird, Why are these being locked behind the Steel Path? New players would be more incentized to use their Melee weapons over their Primaries/Secondaries due to the better in-general mods and stats. That still drives the "Arsenal Divide", especially for new players.

Finally, unlocking Ranged Arcane slots is inconsistent compared to:

  • Warframes (unlocked immediately)
  • Kitgun/Zaw (Glided)
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1 minute ago, Astral_AEther said:

Another idea I got not long ago, was reversing the combo counter

I mean, high melee combo counter means you use your melee a lot...so why not make gun do gin things better the lower your melee combo is ?

Would've worked as well, I am sure those mods wont fix this weapon unbalance (actually some primary/secondary will be even more dead than before with the new meta).

It was needed tweak them at the core of game mechanics, either melee combo like you said or add combo system to guns and mods scaling with it.

Also buff stats of those super dead weapons nobody will ever use

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I think these changes are bad. If their goal is to make melee not the go to, it still will be, by a large margin. I am not in favor of “on kill,” since it does not work against bosses and so forth. This does not address armor scaling, which is the main culprit in many things not working. This is just a melee nerf, that won’t do much, with no much else. 
 

Also, the buff to primary seems to be primarily to aoe weapons (head shots is not viable strategy when fighting 15 mobs). This reduces the build diversity to like 5 weapons. 
 

Honestly, armor scaling and status effects are what needs rework the most. Without addressing these we are just beating around the bush.

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5 hours ago, SephirothWS said:

Great, another secondary I enjoy using getting nerfed into the ground. Time to find a new secondary once again just like when they killed the Catchmoon.

Might I suggest the Epitaph? I personally find great fun in it, as it plays like a Cold Staticor with the ability to headshot for MASSIVE bleed damage that has carried me well through SP.

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11 minutes ago, Xarteros said:

"Steel Path will never have content you HAVE to play it for, it will just be a challenging optional mode" ~you guys, paraphrased.

Well, I find the whole change list laughable. A whole bunch of stuff locked to Steel Path farming, a bunch of nerfs to make you suck more at fighting high level enemies, no changes that the game actually needs for long-term improvement, more bandaid solutions, more layers of clutter.

You know, I was almost getting a bit sad that I've been on hiatus from WF for so long, but now I feel a lot better just letting it die completely. RIP my favourite game, it's been a long and slow death but I hope one day it's reborn without all the mess as WF2

Brutal. I appreciate this post. Again, why in a situation where Primary/Secondary gameplay is lacking, did they not get new bonus features and buffs and leave the other stuff alone. The Arsenal Divide in this update is upsetting. 

But I do want to say thanks DE for Finally adding the Arcane feature to Primary and Secondary.

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7 minutes ago, Duality52 said:

This is admittedly weird, Why are these being locked behind the Steel Path? New players would be more incentized to use their Melee weapons over their Primaries/Secondaries due to the better in-general mods and stats. That still drives the "Arsenal Divide", especially for new players.

Finally, unlocking Ranged Arcane slots is inconsistent compared to:

  • Warframes (unlocked immediately)
  • Kitgun/Zaw (Glided)

THis! --- "COMPLETE you Star Chart Tenno! And, forget the other Steel Essence rewards, you need Arcane Unlockers! Then your Primary/Secondary game will be a modicum of better!"

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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

Hey quick question

If people cant kill on steel path, how the LITTLE DUCK can they grind acolytes to get the arcanes to kill on steel path??

Especially since these cant be bought with plat! Talk about tone deaf solutions!

DE devs say arsenal divide, when the problem is a mental divide between actual reality and their blind/limited/skewed perception of it

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14 minutes ago, Voltage said:

You're implying Berserker is additive to Fury. It's currently multiplicative. Making them additive is healthy. Restricting stacking heavily reduces melee attack speed across the board.

Except it’s not even going to be additive. Because you literally can’t put them on the same build together.

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