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Dev Workshop: The Arsenal Divide


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1 minute ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

The people themselves should also understand as well. Any 4 man team composition should be able to buff and debuff enough to already kill stuff with guns. Octavia, chroma etc I'm not gonna name every single weapon buffer and enemy debuffer....

But it's up to the player to have some imagination and figure out ways to take these enemies down. It's really not hard to kill stuff in the game. 

I  already said "The current builds are already good enough for hour long missions damage-wise."  This means that damage is not the reason people aren't using guns.  You don't need to run missions with specific team comps because normal missions are easy enough as it it.

Just because you CAN use guns to kill stuff, doesn't mean that you would want to.  Because again, why settle for killing one guy with a gun, when you can use ANY melee and kill 15 at once?  The most popular guns all have some kind of AOE damage source...those are the guns not being ignored by the majority of the player base.

All guns are viable with the right build, rivens were a good addition for this reason, but it's just a matter of efficiency.

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I hope that developers find a way to deliver on the idea they clearly want to implement while reflecting on fairly unified reactions from their favourite fanbase. I have slapped way too much $ on this F2P game and at this point it can be easily compared to gambling. Because you never know what you will get, you always stick to the end but at the end of a day, the house always wins.

Keep that in mind yall. 

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First of all kuva nukor shouldn't only went down to 3 not 2 when it was 4 chaining enemies .  At least don't make weapons in playable like all the other weapons your nerf. The new prime weapons are a joke. 

Second  blood rush cost 14 capacity if your gonna nerf you also have to justify it capacity which you haven't you already nerfed blood rush before . Condition overload capacity (its cost 15) should also be reduce . If your gonna need it. I would reduce both to 11-12.

Third hardly anyone runs two attack speed mods that's literally a meme if anything. Changing berserker way to proc and shorting the time is a huge nerf . Either do one or the other . So it would be reasonable because it might become a un-use mod.

You should learn to gradually nerf not make huge nerf your priority.

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Berserker

I don't think the Berserker nerf is going the right direction. Having it trigger on kill is bad in several ways.

  • It doesn't do anything until you get a kill, so it becomes less potent in proportion to how long it takes you to get a kill. The longer it takes you to get each kill, the less of a benefit you get out of it, and if you're struggling to get even one kill - say, on Steel Path - then it doesn't help at all. So it's a negative feedback loop - the more you need help, the less help Berserker Fury provides.
  • Because the buff goes away if you go 10 seconds without getting a melee kill, it actually works against the intention of the gun changes. You all are trying to reward us for using both melee and guns, but with this change every time I stop using melee and switch to guns, I run the risk of losing that bonus. So having Berserker Fury on my melee weapon incentivizes me to use melee more and just ignore my guns.
  • Also, because the buff requires you to get a kill, it will be useless against every boss or miniboss unless there are minions running around for me to kill, and even if there are minions I'm not excited about the pattern of needing to find a minion to kill every 10 seconds to keep my attack speed bonus.

If I may make a suggestion: instead of having it trigger on crit or on kill, just make it like Blood Rush and Weeping Wounds, and have it scale with combo count. That's something we could build for, using mods and Vazarin to extend the combo timer, or using the glaive-specific mods to allow our guns to add combo count, and also prevents the problem Berserker currently has of stacking all the way up on one hit.

Condition Overload

I think that the section on Condition Overload is poorly worded - it sounds like you're reducing the bonus, but removing the maximum limit of three statuses, but I'm not sure that actually what you're saying. Please clarify?

Glaives

If you're tweaking the stats on glaives, maybe also boost them up a bit? Of the entire glaive family, only the Glaive Prime and the Xoris really have the critical or status stats to compete with other weapons at high level.

Weapon Arcanes

All of these new weapon arcanes trigger on kill, and therefore have the same problems that Berserker Fury does. That doesn't sound very compelling. Again, the language is a bit imprecise - it reads like maybe it's only the damage bonuses that trigger on kill and the other bonuses are always active, and that would at least be worth using.

Maybe you could have them reward precision instead - have them trigger on-hit, make the bonus they provide small but let it stack very high, and give it a short duration but make it decay one stack at a time instead of all at once. This would be much more generally useful than a big on-kill bonus. This would also naturally favor weapons with a high fire-rate or lots of multishot, so maybe you could also scale down the buff's duration in proportion to the weapon's fire rate and multishot stats.

Galvanized Mods

Again, all of these mods trigger on kill, and therefore have the same problems that Berserker Fury does. These mods at least all have the benefit of having continuous bonuses, so they aren't completely wasted when you haven't gotten a kill for a while. Not terrible, but not great.

Edited by (PSN)digitalgabeg
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9 minutes ago, Covenanthunter said:

I can take just about any melee weapon in the game with any warframe to steel path and get good results. That is not true for guns. I don’t think combinations of broken warframe abilities with  weapons is the point.

Raising the ceiling of guns without factoring in the myriad buffs is incredibly silly. All those buffs like an Octavia and a chroma in the same hallway being added afterwards doesn't make sense.

The game is expecting you to actually use the things in the game.

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Looks good, melee mod nerfs seem to put combo crit in line with heavy attack crit while combo still having the advantage of status, the the CO changes makes it more of a tossup between running sac steel + CO vs double sac, depending on your status output and what you're fighting. Overall probably good for build variety, though the blanket glaive nerfs seem a bit odd considering how different the usage rates for different glaive weapons are? I don't use them that much though, so not the best judge.

Gun mods seem interesting, though focusing only on on kill effects doesn't add much to a lot of utility weapons. It also doesn't really address the efficiency discrepancy between large AOE weapons and everything else, considering the large amount of enemies you face in most scenarios. Placing these fixes at the end of the closest thing the game has to an endgame currently also seems an odd choice, since it means it won't have an effect on the majority of most players playtimes?

Overall optimistic, even if I don't think it'll be the big shake up of the meta you might have hoped. Helminth and Parazon changes seem promising, I particularly like Hard Reset. Having a reliable way to revive your sentinel in end-game content might make more people more likely to actually use sentinel weapons for utility rather than just passive stat sticks, which sadly seems to be the conventional wisdom.

 

Edit: Also, I support the suggestion some others have made in this thread that Berserker Fury probably should proc on kill rather than on melee kill, which would encourage weapon swapping more to maintain top efficiency.

Edited by Leon_Von_Comarre
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6 hours ago, DrinkingRock said:

Hot take because I’m on break at work:

Give the arcanes the same treatment you did rivens when they caused imbalance; vary their strength based on weapon usage and avoid skyrocketing the meta.

Ah yes, because you're assuming stat magnitude has any affect on player usage. Go look at subsumed Eclipse or a Rubico/Kronen/Nukor Riven. Low multipliers are still multipliers which still widen the gap. Creating Arcane disposition only makes players feel bad about their inventory and doesn't actually balance anything. This has been proven with Rivens for years now.

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9 minutes ago, The_Gray_Lady said:

I  already said "The current builds are already good enough for hour long missions damage-wise."  This means that damage is not the reason people aren't using guns.  You don't need to run missions with specific team comps because normal missions are easy enough as it it.

Just because you CAN use guns to kill stuff, doesn't mean that you would want to.  Because again, why settle for killing one guy with a gun, when you can use ANY melee and kill 15 at once?  The most popular guns all have some kind of AOE damage source...those are the guns not being ignored by the majority of the player base.

All guns are viable with the right build, rivens were a good addition for this reason, but it's just a matter of efficiency.

The game doesn't have a sole responsibility to cater their own game and updates around frothing min maxers and people who can't have fun and can only be efficient.

They're one set of customers just like fashion framers.

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I don't get why we need so many on kill conditions. I guess arcanes are fine, but mods like Galvanized Aptitude are not. It is essentially Condition Overload for guns, but Condition Overload doesn't have on kill condition. Why this inconsistency? It requires more work to achieve the same effect. Things like that make me fear that these new mods will not change much.

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I hate that those "on kill" conditions will increase competition and frustration among tenno: killstealing will be rewarded by buffing the stealer's weapons, and someone who has whittled an enemy down to a sliver of health will rightly be infuriated when someone else nukes the room, depriving them of their bonus.

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DE decided to lock the gun "Buffs" behind steel path grind. The arcane slot for primary/secondary must be unlocked as well. The way they fixed an issue is by forcing us to grind for decent primary/secondary weapons and directly nerfing the melee mods.

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Good Updates coming, just wondering ..

Can yall do a surprise for the true hard-core tennos who puts in the time and get rewarded with something Awsome for the Legendary Ranks? The Relay Blessing was a step in the right direction but it was just a STEP, if it was longer like a whole 6-12hrs would have been better instead of 3hrs that is barely enough time for 2 - 3 missions.. plz look into this thx and use some of the fans ideas for the Legendary Ranks yall got a great opportunity here, plz don't waste it on not doing nothing with it 👍🙏👌😀🙌

sincerely a loyal tenno 

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My only problem is that I am seeing the on kill condition alot. It appears that you can deal alot of damage once you start getting kills but, it already takes way too many bullets to get that 1st kill. Also can you please make the galvanized mods & gun arcanes last at least 10 seconds like Berserk Fury (BTW love the name # favorite Zoid), so we have more time to ramp up.


EDIT: Now that I have read this more thoroughly I see that Primary Merciless & Secondary Merciless are the only two mods with a timer of less than ten seconds.

Edited by DarkSaint_Exile
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Having to unlock arcane slots on weapons is just as stupid as when they decided to lock weapon exilus slots.  Know how many exilus weapon adapters I've ever built?  Zero.  Know how many arcane slots I'm going to unlock?  Here's a guess, it's a number between 1 and -1.

If you're going to "improve" weapons with added features just add the god damn features without locking them behind even more grind or a paywall that you have to go through for every single god damn weapon.

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6 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

This is not a thing and never has been.

There is a typo in the OP where Reb put an AND instead of AT.

So there is a concern the statuses will max at 3 for CO when she was saying that it will take three statuses for CO to reach/exceed PPP in damage output.

 

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9 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are going to start with the biggest change: You can now add Arcane Slots (name not final) to your Primary and Secondary weapons, and fill the Slots with new Arcanes that enhance and reward diverse gameplay. 

WHY DO WE HAVE  TO UNLOCK THESE! no where else in the game do we have to unlock anything like this on any frame or weapon! WHY HERE ON NORMAL WEAPONS!!!!!!

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1 hour ago, TomCruisesSon said:

You can use abilities and melee to set enemies up to finish them off with your gun and then use the buff to kill more enemies which will get you more buffs. Just one way I can think of to get your buffs going.

If we’re strong enough to kill enemies with a combination of abilities and weapons then we don’t need the gun “buff” mods

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