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Dev Workshop: The Arsenal Divide


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Why do we still have primary and secondary and melee slots? When we should just have slot 1 slot 2 slot 3 and allow us to slot any weapon we want? 

These changes didn’t go far enough, they aren’t bold enough. There still isn’t any reason to switch between weapons. So let us decide which weapons we want to equip. Really open up the decision making process on what to use. Especially if the idea is to have balance between them. 

Edited by (XBOX)YoungGunn82
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so no Beserker and Fury together ouch

blood rush 20 percent drop

Condition Overload 40% nerf think this got hit the hardest

the new mods really not good on kill effects are not good unless it heals u or creates aoe bomb if not they are rubbish

requiem ultimatum yes hell yes to this

Edited by (PSN)ChaosDark1
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6 minutes ago, smashedwookie said:

Great so the game mode that was supposed to be optional and never be forced upon us now is if we want some of the proper gun gameplay...

These mods are only good if you're looking to do higher level content. If you don't like or enjoy playing higher level content, then you won't need these mods, since as you've implied, you don't want to do higher level content anyway. 

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Ngl, I'm not super thrilled about the extent of the nerfs- which is just me being a whiny guy
But I do hope that with these changes, players of all tiers (not just ones who can easily get arcanes, kill acolytes, burn through SP ,etc) will be content 
I am not too happy but my 'E' key is elated
 

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galvanized shot:

> on kill +40% damage per status type affecting target for 14s. Stacks up to 3x

do you get a stack on kill or is it based on number of status types affecting the target (i.e. is it 120% per status type affecting target at 3 stacks or +120% damage against a target with at least 3 different status effects)?

 

Also can we still equip quickening with berserker? Do they still stack in the same way? 

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Just now, Sanchezjoax said:

Why are you even playing this game then lmao

I mean i understand his view. Whilst i do enjoy farming stuff, its extremely disheartening to have things you've invested resources in gutted into the floor. And before you say 'what if they're still good', not one thing DE has nerfed was ever useful post nerf, they nerf into the floor to stop people using things. 

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2 minutes ago, RoadCrewWorker said:

Here's my problem: if a weapon was already struggling to kill anything on steel path, all this "on kill get better" stuff isn't helping. So this mostly buffs the weapons that could already mow down mobs without any problems anyway.

 

This. It's not going to encourage people to play with other guns, it's just going to empower what people use already.

And as you have to farm for these through steel path, melee will still be the preferable option, but it's now just going to be more painful due to the nerfs. So overall this is just a nerf to the face.

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I already didn't had my hopes up for this, and sure enough it was worse
Melee is being treated as an escape goat while Guns are not in a good state, the changes presented aren't good and heres why i think so:
 

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Beserker Fury, cannot stack with Fury.

This kills any use for slow melees, not to mention it ruins build diversity within builds. I'm half ok with the change since the over all nerf was minimal to 5% BUT 10 seconds? Now thats unfair, it should be at LEAST 15 with the lack of clustered enemies.
 

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

+40% Critical Chance stacks with Combo Multiplier

This feels like an over nerf, this mod made struggling melees actually being able to crit consistently, and thus nerfing this hard only makes the meta worse. you want more weapons to be used, but this only makes less melees viable. I suggest a lighter nerf to 50%.
 

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

+80% Melee Damage per Status Type affecting the target. 

This also feels like an over nerf, same reasons as above, If this mod (and blood rush) are such a "problem" why aren't we getting the same for guns? We are getting Galvanzied Aptitude and Savvy, so it shouldn't be too farfetched that we get similar to crit weapons.
 

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

our second change is to reduce quick throw damage to approximately 50% of the maximum charge.

This is honestly not needed at all, same principle as the mod nerfs, this only remove choices in arsenal, not add them. The wind up timer i can understand as I also had many miss throws, but the damage isn't justified.
 

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

PRIMARY MERCILESS

This is fundamentally broken, why would i use this in the first place if primaries already have problems achieving kills? This goes hand in hand with the Secondary version. Guns need a way to scale damage to even get a kill having an arcane of all things that only activates after 1 wont make them better, it looks like a band aid arcane and only benefits weapons that already are in the meta, or to do lower level missions even faster. 

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

PRIMARY DEADHEAD

Same as above

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

PRIMARY DEXTERITY

Same as above 2, but with the added comment of, i rather keep my scaling melee than switching to guns

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

but the On Kill conditional increases them well above and beyond what is available with ‘conventional’ Mods in your Arsenal.

This is the crux of this whole change, Guns can't achieve "on kill" and thus aren't used, melee can scale and thus are meta. 

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It's everything I hoped it wouldn't be. Strong weapons get even stronger, while those that already are bad are left in the dust... These changes are sure to yet again cause more issues in the future, just like so many band-aids have done in the past.

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I don't like nerfs at all BUT, melee is rather crazy because of these mods and removing a third of their power -while rough- seems warranted.
The new mods and arcanes seem very promising and they will certainly shake things up for primary and secondary builds.
Can't immediately tell how much of a change these will cause but we'll see when we get our hands on them.

Can theorems and residuals be deleted, please? They are so clunky to use and so incredibly underwhelming. All they do is dillute the droptables.

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If you guys actually bothered with rebalancing weapons so that some mods wouldn't be "essential", thus freeing up some mod slots for others, this wouldn't be terrible. But with how this is being handled, this is just a straight nerf to most things all to create a new bandaid system to compensate.

 

Separate note, but @[DE]Rebecca, the video embed won't work because it's agegated on the YT.com side.

Also, a few things have A LOT of extra spacing being used in the topic's main post..

Edited by Sean
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I believe the glaive wind up doubling is fine, however because every glaive build goes for heavy attack builds and thrown builds which are already much slower then non thrown melees plus the fact that you don't "spam e" with them, I really will say that the damage lowering is really unwarranted. I will wait to see it in the live build first but please take note, when you pick a glaive or any other melee you are choosing to lose constant DPS in return for a much bigger hit, the wind up speed change pushes this but the damage halving kind of brings glaives in a bad spot. Please consider reverting the damage changes but leaving the wind up change.

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5 minutes ago, (XBOX)l Saminator l said:

These mods are only good if you're looking to do higher level content. If you don't like or enjoy playing higher level content, then you won't need these mods, since as you've implied, you don't want to do higher level content anyway. 

steelpath isnt the only way to do high level content

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I'm sorry but gun stats matter, half of them are worthless and unsalvageable, even with a riven, I think this will just make the best performing guns perform even higher while leaving into the dirt 70% them.

Edit: Most of the low end weapons wont even be able to proc the mod effects in the fist place because they do not have enough power to kill enemies period at that level, so the only good weapons to get the effect started will be snipers and the top few guns who where already SP viable, the rest will be virtually unaffected because we can't even get them started.

Edited by Attel_Malagate
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Melee nerfs are sensible.
Bloodrush's +440% Crit Chance is still more than True Steel on Heavy Attacks, or Sacrificial Steel with Set Bonus 2. And for those who want even more, the Gladiator Mods exist.
Condition Overload will still be the Damage Mod for long Missions and any Status Melee, Hybrid Melee, or even Crit Melee with Weeping Wounds.
Berserk Fury difference should barely be noticeable for anyone who wasn't stacking with pFury, though I still can't see why I'd use any other Attack Speed Mod over it.

I don't agree with the Glaive Nerf, it feels like it won't change their effectiveness much, but will significantly hurt their gameplay feel instead.

I'm not sure about the Nukor change, seems fine on paper, will have to try it out.

I'm not sure about the Gun Mods either, I'll have to try them out but I'm very exited to do so.

The first two immediate complaints I have:

Primary and Melee Dexterity are very neat ideas, but Arcane Blade Charge and Arcane Primary Charger already exist, yet they don't see much use.
Half of that is because the Arbitration Drops and Store need to be looked at and redistributed, but the other part is that they probably need some buff. Now would be a great time for it.

The other problem is how much Capacity the Galvanized Mods demand, when Primaries and Secondaries are already extremely difficult to fill with the existing good Mods.
There's simply not enough Capacity, even if we Forma every Slot, to fit a full build of Primed, Galvanized, Amalgam, Rivens, Exilus and otherwise Capacity-expensive Mods.
Melees don't have that issue, nor should Guns. Maybe a decrease of Primary/ShotgunSecondary Mod Capacity Cost across the board is needed. Kuva and Parvos Weapons don't apply to this problem, with their Max Capacity of 80, but I'd rather not be limited to only them.

Oh also Galvanized Shot makes Hammer Shot completely irrelevant again, rip.

Edited by Petroklos
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I've read the trigger conditions and the stacks limits but I'm a bit concerned about these.
Do you mean that the mod is limited to two proc types or it can trigger twice aka 80% per proc type, and no proc type limits?

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