Dev Workshop: The Arsenal Divide

[RS219]

1 hour ago, addamrobin2 said:

some weapons DESPERATELY need Berserker, like the Fragor or Gram... even with Quickening + Arcane Strike the Fragor Prime still feels so heavy and cumbersome, in a fast paced game like this... will you make another dumb nightwave boss like the wolf in the future? 

all the ON HEADSHOT KILL stuff... have you tried playing your OWN game with a controller?

the kuva nukor nerf will not stop there... if they can change the catchmoon into trashmoon and then spit in player's face like the joke that P guy did...

or if they can neuter the Bramma, by punishing players that grinded so hard and invested FIVE FORMAS in it... they can do it to the nukor too

Devs : "guise...guise... we're addressing the arsenal divide, but not really, we're just touching the popular weapons and mods that proved to be efficient at killing enemies"

Players : "what about forgotten weapons that have never been touched since 2013?"

Devs : "here's more arcanes and mods for you to grind more" 

Sssh, don't mention the bramma possibly getting nerfed even more, lunatic defenders will come in and nag you to just install even more band aid mods!

But yeah let's keep letting MR5 newbies run around with access to end-game kuva weapons, that'll go so well for any new meta kuva weapon

[RS219]

The changes to Berserker is going to absolutely destroy it. Decoupling it from Fury and making it 70% instead of 75% are fine, but to make it "oN kIlL" AND reduce the max duration to 10 seconds will make it impossible to use on end-game steel path with ridiculously tanky Corpus or Grineer! Players will be forced to run around to look for a Butcher/Moa to kill before moving onto Bombards and Techs, and all you're doing is making Primed Fury the new meta! What next, Primed Fury gets nerfed because you don't like it making certain end-game melees move too fast?

Who in DE thought this was a good idea, and does he/she even play the game???

[(NSW)RATHURUE]

1 minute ago, Leqesai said:

What?

Where did arcane lockdown come from? 

Kuva Nukor is a major DPS weapon. I don't bother with arcane lockdown because it simply isn't necessary when you're wrecking enemies with a weapon as powerful as Kuva Nukor.

Because I'm not using my Nukor for DPS? Because I occasionally switch to other Warframes than using braindead 'Wuclone does everything'? Because, uh, I don't use Kuva Nukor often aside from SP Corpus defense missions which can shred the defense target to pieces in less than 5 seconds unless you have either good CC or damage? I dunno, man. 

[Leqesai]

1 minute ago, (NSW)RATHURUE said:

Because I'm not using my Nukor for DPS? Because I occasionally switch to other Warframes than using braindead 'Wuclone does everything'? Because, uh, I don't use Kuva Nukor often aside from SP Corpus defense missions which can shred the defense target to pieces in less than 5 seconds unless you have either good CC or damage? I dunno, man. 

Yeah I dunno, dude. I'm just not following the weird random things you're saying. Maybe I'm too tired or something but I'm a little confused by your responses.

Power to whatever you're doing if you feel it works for you.

[Oorel]

I think its in general a fair thing to consider a portion of negative feedback to be a kneejerk reaction. Reading this thread there is a bit of that for sure, however there is so much valid and relevant feedback here that I hope you don't dismiss any of it.

I do believe that these changes are going to be irrelevant and that ultimately, this is just going to be you guys (DE) stirring the pot for no reason at all.

Melee will still dominate, guns will get a boost. the good weapons remain good and the bad weapons remain bad. There is no way to get around this without reworking statuses and changing stats for guns as you did with melee years ago. If you were serious about addressing the issues brought up in the OP, the method described in the post is the wrong one.

[festivneer]

alright, imma go through this rather disappointing dev workshop bit by bit, but first of all starting with the actual problem:
meta weapons and power creep
its not that melee is too strong overall, its that currently, the meta melee weapons are better than their meta ranged counterparts. instead of giving all melee weapons the short stick due to a few bad apples, you should change the ones that are actually problematic. or better yet, buff the high end primary weapons. we now have the problem of almost all melee weapons that are not meta being useless outside of progressing through the base starchart. and the currently meta ones not seeing much change cause the nerfed mods dont actually effect much due to the weapons being objectively strong at base.

berserker nerf
congratulations, its now useless.
with how its going to change, you are stuck with a choice: either pick primed fury for a constant +55% melee speed. or berserker fury for a extra 15% after 2 kills.
this seems good at first, until you realize that no matter what you are going to, primed fury is a superior choice.
lets look at three things: low level, high level, and bosses.
for low level, we have the problem of "it does not matter what i choose, the 15% makes no real difference."
for high level, we have the problem of "it takes too long to kill enemies without a meta weapon/riven. i cant consistently keep the buff"
and guess what, there is a considerable overlap between the two. leaving no room for berserker.
as for bosses, we have the problem of "there are not enough enemies to kill, i cannot keep the buff"
in all three areas berserker simply falls short now.
proposed change
berserked fury: (still keeps mutual exclusivity with fury and primed fury, but now sounds slightly better)
-every melee melee swing that hits increases melee speed by 0.5%
-caps at 75%
-buff wears off with combo counter
so now instead of having the problem of a instant buff you can keep for the whole mission or the new high level problem of being unable to keep the buff, you are now able to slowly build it over 150 melee hits. making it "every melee swing that hits" prevents using a crowd to build it in just a few swings. making it wear off with combo counter also encourages you to use combo if you choose to use the mod. 
edit: and the change to 75% cap is just to make it so all the buildup has a overall greater effect,
blood rush nerf
i would agree with it, if it wasn't for the whole meta/non meta problem. as the meta ones that use it, are conveniently enough the meta weapons with crit rate to make the new one get red crits.
i have no proposed change.
condition overload nerf
while it is good, limiting it to three buffs is meh.
proposed change:
+melee gains a 10% damage buff, this buff's strength doubles for each additional elemental status effect on target
-caps at 6 status effects
this change encourages the player to make a build where at least one of your ranged weapons applies status to enemies that is unique from your melee.
status from your melee brings the buff to 40%, status from one ranged weapon brings the buff to 160%, and adding your second ranged weapon brings this to 640%
ultimately, its stronger than the desired change, but weaker than current CO. as with just your melee weapon, and a sentinel weapon with a innate status, you could get x9.6 damage.
glaive nerf
i honestly don't even know where to start with this. while some of them may be strong, nuking the entire class by cutting their damage in around half for each one is not the direction to take.
nukor nerf
i have one simple question: was the change playtested?
further, i think the nukor brings a valuable topic into light: most secondary weapons are vastly underwhelming compared to primaries.
arcanes for primary and secondary
i think the problem that we all see is obvious: the bonuses are simply too much, and fall to the same problem as the berserker nerf. for low levels the higher limit does not matter, for high levels you need a meta weapon to keep the buff, and for bosses you are out of luck
galvanized mods
same problem as the arcanes, its simply too much. there is also once again the meta/non meta divide. all this does is give to the meta weapons while the non meta ones are left in the dust as they simply cannot keep up. and get those first few buffs.
also, has the same problem as the berserker nerf, for low levels the higher limit does not matter, for high levels you need a meta weapon to keep the buff, and for bosses you are out of luck.
 

[oldjimprime]

Well, the biggest reason for I am not shooting in warframe is because the feeling of shooting in warframe is terrible , I could not even find the aiming icon easily. and for all the guns, what ever what kind of gun it is, if anyone want to make it useable need to take at least 5 formas, it takes the time to reset the level, may be even cost platinum to buy forma and exp bosster. So what kind of "receive thing" can balance the players lost? the following is absolutely not enough! I am super disappointed. DE you are telling the new joiner and all solo player to go away, and solo player could not even start the iron E prime. you will see how many new player give up rate rise up like a rocket because of the decision you made. 

On 2021-06-18 at 3:00 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

With the release of Update 30.5: Sisters of Parvos, players will receive the following upon login:
 

1. All Players Mastery Rank 5 and above will receive 5 x Built Forma.

2. All Players Mastery Rank 5 and above will receive a 3-Day Affinity Booster.

3. Any Player who owns a Kuva Nukor will receive an extra 2 x Built Forma.

4. All Players who owned ANY Lich Weapon at any point OR have a Converted Lich OR have an active Lich get 1x Requiem Ultimatum (a new item to taunt a Lich or Sister into battle)!

5. Players who have Converted a Kuva lich OR vanquished a Kuva Lich will get OULL, which is a Requiem Wildcard Mod! 

At the end, I really want to know, is the DE is still the company witch want to make a good free game? Because for now, all I see is a company updating bugs, and trying to make the game take every one more and more time to play. that is not the sing for a good game

[mrgudveseli]

17 hours ago, (PSN)RWalls91 said:

Well these changes suck. Couldn't they just add the primary and secondary stuff to bring them up to speed? Also it seems with the new arcanes and galvanised mods you're going to make guns stupid, and have the same meta divide again just flipped around. Should have just left melee as it was, or maybe cap condition overload stacks or something so people wouldn't overly rely on the nukor.

That would lead to even more power creep, and power creep is everything, but a good way to balance stuff.

[Oorel]

On Kill is not a good approach.

[(PSN)Svenx13]

Heavy attack meta incoming 

[ValloVN]

Only way to have some kind of balance between weapons is having diminishing return on mods.

Example:  Weapon crit chance 10%-  Blood rush increase by 60%   Weapon crit chance 50% - Blood rush increase 30%

Same with berserk based on attack speed.

If you reduce blood rush and berserk straight down to 40% for every melee weapon that has lower stats will become even weaker. 

And this way there will be another "melee divide" update someday since most weapons wont be used at all anymore. Dont put so much effort in creating cool weapons like Okina daggers that look amazing but have average or lower stats. I know its probably simple to just reduce stats on mod for everything but it wont balance other weapons usage.

I prefer having fun using all weapons in arsenal than having to run around with some must have op melee weapon that is only thing that can kill at high lvl places.

 

With such diminishing return u can fix two things at once, melee weapon usage and melee weapon balance.

Just my input on topic.

 

[festivneer]

3 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

We're getting +360% Primary/Secondary damage without spending any mod slots and can trade +90%/+120% multishot for +80-200%. We're getting F A T buffs. Shoot weaker enemies first or something idk.

but on kill effects ignore the primary issue: a large majority of weapons (including ones intended to be strong) cant keep up with current content
how am i expected to get kills with mods that are slightly worse at base if the weapon cant even keep up kills with the normal ones.
all on kill effects like this do is make the meta weapons stronger while the non-meta ones fall off even faster.

[_Kiro]

The problem has always been that melee mods scale better with enemy level than any other mod type in the game, it'd produce a better result if you just went over the mods for primaries and secondaries to just improve them in general.

I'm not even mad at the nerf mentality of DE nerfing the one thing that deals consistent damage in Steel Path content, I'm just honestly disappointed cuz every time they go to try and fix a problem they just take a wrong left and enter "What?????" territory.

Why are the supposed new mods a Steel Path only reward? How the heck does this logic even pop up in your meetings:
You nerf melee which is the viable way to kill enemies in SP, you add new mods to fix the unbalanced fest we have in our arsenal, and how do we obtain them?
By killing enemies in Steel Path...

What?

I dunno, why not just increase mod capacity on guns in general to avoid the same build over and over? Let me add Argon Scope as an extra mod for example, make Reload Speed and other utilities "Exilus mods" - TAKE WHAT YOU ALREADY HAVE and make it viable. Why are we still putting on bandaids that ultimately fix nothing and just create more problems?

Has anybody looked at the cost of those new mods?
I mean, melee weapons take 1-2 forma to become viable while guns in general still take 4-5 and now it'll not be enough again, I'ma have to add another possibly to fit everything.
 

TL;DR:
Add more capacity and mod slots to guns and improve the mods we have already, don't do whatever you think this is, whatever this dev workshop post is intended to announce honestly falls flat on its intended goal.

[Dunkelheit]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb festivneer:

alright, imma go through this rather disappointing dev workshop bit by bit, but first of all starting with the actual problem:
meta weapons and power creep
its not that melee is too strong overall, its that currently, the meta melee weapons are better than their meta ranged counterparts. instead of giving all melee weapons the short stick due to a few bad apples, you should change the ones that are actually problematic. or better yet, buff the high end primary weapons. we now have the problem of almost all melee weapons that are not meta being useless outside of progressing through the base starchart. and the currently meta ones not seeing much change cause the nerfed mods dont actually effect much due to the weapons being objectively strong at base.

berserker nerf
congratulations, its now useless.
with how its going to change, you are stuck with a choice: either pick primed fury for a constant +55% melee speed. or berserker fury for a extra 15% after 2 kills.
this seems good at first, until you realize that no matter what you are going to, primed fury is a superior choice.
lets look at three things: low level, high level, and bosses.
for low level, we have the problem of "it does not matter what i choose, the 15% makes no real difference."
for high level, we have the problem of "it takes too long to kill enemies without a meta weapon/riven. i cant consistently keep the buff"
and guess what, there is a considerable overlap between the two. leaving no room for berserker.
as for bosses, we have the problem of "there are not enough enemies to kill, i cannot keep the buff"
in all three areas berserker simply falls short now.
proposed change
berserked fury: (still keeps mutual exclusivity with fury and primed fury, but now sounds slightly better)
-every melee melee swing that hits increases melee speed by 0.5%
-caps at 75%
-buff wears off with combo counter
so now instead of having the problem of a instant buff you can keep for the whole mission or the new high level problem of being unable to keep the buff, you are now able to slowly build it over 150 melee hits. making it "every melee swing that hits" prevents using a crowd to build it in just a few swings. making it wear off with combo counter also encourages you to use combo if you choose to use the mod. 
edit: and the change to 75% cap is just to make it so all the buildup has a overall greater effect,
blood rush nerf
i would agree with it, if it wasn't for the whole meta/non meta problem. as the meta ones that use it, are conveniently enough the meta weapons with crit rate to make the new one get red crits.
i have no proposed change.
condition overload nerf
while it is good, limiting it to three buffs is meh.
proposed change:
+melee gains a 10% damage buff, this buff's strength doubles for each additional elemental status effect on target
-caps at 6 status effects
this change encourages the player to make a build where at least one of your ranged weapons applies status to enemies that is unique from your melee.
status from your melee brings the buff to 40%, status from one ranged weapon brings the buff to 160%, and adding your second ranged weapon brings this to 640%
ultimately, its stronger than the desired change, but weaker than current CO. as with just your melee weapon, and a sentinel weapon with a innate status, you could get x9.6 damage.
glaive nerf
i honestly don't even know where to start with this. while some of them may be strong, nuking the entire class by cutting their damage in around half for each one is not the direction to take.
nukor nerf
i have one simple question: was the change playtested?
further, i think the nukor brings a valuable topic into light: most secondary weapons are vastly underwhelming compared to primaries.
arcanes for primary and secondary
i think the problem that we all see is obvious: the bonuses are simply too much, and fall to the same problem as the berserker nerf. for low levels the higher limit does not matter, for high levels you need a meta weapon to keep the buff, and for bosses you are out of luck
galvanized mods
same problem as the arcanes, its simply too much. there is also once again the meta/non meta divide. all this does is give to the meta weapons while the non meta ones are left in the dust as they simply cannot keep up. and get those first few buffs.
also, has the same problem as the berserker nerf, for low levels the higher limit does not matter, for high levels you need a meta weapon to keep the buff, and for bosses you are out of luck.
 

I'll address your points separately:

- meta weapons and power creep: I think you are wrong here... every single melee weapon was OP in Steel Path, which is atm, like it or not, the defined endgame content other than doing endless mission for hours. Let us see how it works out and if some melee weapons become unusable, which I doubt....

- berserker nerf: True, but mods are left behind from time to time... same happens for a lot of mods for Primary and Secondary now. You just need to let go here.

- blood rush nerf: There are meta weapons who are not crit based... remember Kronen Prime?

- condition overload nerf: as it is now, I don't even prime any more with status effects if I don't do endless missions. In Steel Path it is definitely not needed. And as everyone who plays Steel Path knows: Melee is king and conditional overload is the scepter to rule them all. You will remember how good it is when status immune enemies pop up, like Stalker and Sentients....

- Glaive nerf: holy cow, why DE, why why why?

- nukor nerf: Nukor is outdated already, so they can nerf it anyway they want, there are stronger options now

- arcanes for primary and secondary: But isn't that desirable? Bosses only live more than 2 seconds if they have invul frames. Sergeant is a sad example for a boss who does not have invul frames.... I don't mind boss fights taking longer and being more challenging

- galvanized mods: Why not wait and see how it plays out? Yes, they are strong, but they are supposed to be and should bring range closer to melee in terms of damage. And melee is so far and beyond that ranged dmg needs a lot of help.

 

 

[GREF_TM]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)Svenx13 said:

Heavy attack meta incoming 

Yeah, it's quite funny how they effectively deleted berserker from the game and gutted CO/blood rush, yet haven't touched a single heavy attack mod. It's like instead of actually sitting down and discussing "what makes melees so strong and what we can do to bring guns to their level", they looked at non-standard mods in most used builds and though "yeah, nerf all this crap, that would certainly solve the problem".

 

PS whoever is behind new berserker shouldn't be allowed anywhere near balancing.

[Dunkelheit]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb festivneer:

but on kill effects ignore the primary issue: a large majority of weapons (including ones intended to be strong) cant keep up with current content
how am i expected to get kills with mods that are slightly worse at base if the weapon cant even keep up kills with the normal ones.
all on kill effects like this do is make the meta weapons stronger while the non-meta ones fall off even faster.

If you go solo: your first kill takes longer, if you cannot kill, then I don't know what to say... wait, I do: Learn 2 remove shields or armor, I guess
So, you are mad, because you cannot run through the levels like a madman and kill anything on sight with ease? This is suppossed to happen, this is basically their design goal.

If you go with a group: Focus fire one enemy, then roll from there.

 

People, if you did not play steel path yet or are MR5, please do not take part in discussions like this. Nothing will change for you, I promise.

[(XBOX)CFG SatanDevil]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Dunkelheit:

If you go solo: your first kill takes longer, if you cannot kill, then I don't know what to say... wait, I do: Learn 2 remove shields or armor, I guess
So, you are mad, because you cannot run through the levels like a madman and kill anything on sight with ease? This is suppossed to happen, this is basically their design goal.

If you go with a group: Focus fire one enemy, then roll from there.

 

People, if you did not play steel path yet or are MR5, please do not take part in discussions like this. Nothing will change for you, I promise.

Agree 👌

my words, the same people complaining melee is boring because OP are now complaining about the nerf. 

[EnwoQ]

"on kill" to trigger and a duration under 20 sec, all of those no matter the damage number, are just gimmicks

[Dunkelheit]

vor 28 Minuten schrieb oldjimprime:

Well, the biggest reason for I am not shooting in warframe is because the feeling of shooting in warframe is like a pice of **** , I could not even find the aiming icon easily. and for all the guns, what ever what kind of gun it is, if anyone want to make it useable need to take at least 5 formas, it takes the time to reset the level, may be even cost platinum to buy forma and exp bosster. So what kind of "receive thing" can balance the players lost? the following is absolutely not enough! I am super disappointed. DE you are telling the new joiner and all solo player to go away, and solo player could not even start the iron E prime. you will see how many new player give up rate rise up like a rocket because of the decision you made.

Please explain to me what changed for new players so that the "give-up-rate" will rise up like a rocket? Because I am not able to think of one single point. All changes point to endgame....

[LSG501]

Ignoring the fact I can't watch the video's due to 'age restrictions' (why...), and I don't want to give youtube my bank details or id just to say I'm old enough, everything written there honestly feels like it's going to take away the last remaining things I found 'fun' in the game, I enjoyed melee far more than the 'guns' ... 

In all honesty I'm pretty sure this will bring about more issues than it will solve, not to mention I'm sure DE will love the fact that players need to use more forma to fit everything in and/or rework builds....🙄.

 

The recent changes (and this might sound hyperbolic) and direction of the game has pretty much killed my interest in the game (actually most of my clan aren't playing either), I haven't even bothered to farm for the latest prime stuff (back to inaros iirc and I like inaros), I don't have a mecha and I couldn't care less about railjack now..... with this I'm not even sure I'll bother reinstalling the game when I do my windows reinstall. 

In all honesty DE needs to make their minds up on what this game is and stick to it, they can't 'rely' on the beta tag and then keep needing to 'fix' issues that they create because of lack of future planning or just lack of understanding of how the game plays (big issue is the main dev's don't play the WHOLE game enough imo)

[GREF_TM]

  

4 minutes ago, Dunkelheit said:

every single melee weapon was OP in Steel Path

Yeah, the good ol' OP plasma sword.

4 minutes ago, Dunkelheit said:

the defined endgame

Except pretty much every mission that is worth farming in warframe is 120 and below. When the update drops, wanna farm new frame? Probably drops from somwhere between lvl40 and lvl80. How about new weapons and ephemeras from liches? lvl65-lvl110. See the pattern?

The only reason to go steel path when the update drops would be to farm arcanes, and even that is forced - apparently, DE thought that just buffing stuff isn't gonna cut it, and we need to farm these "buffs" too before we can taste them.

[Dunkelheit]

vor 20 Minuten schrieb ValloVN:

Only way to have some kind of balance between weapons is having diminishing return on mods.

Example:  Weapon crit chance 10%-  Blood rush increase by 60%   Weapon crit chance 50% - Blood rush increase 30%

Same with berserk based on attack speed.

If you reduce blood rush and berserk straight down to 40% for every melee weapon that has lower stats will become even weaker. 

And this way there will be another "melee divide" update someday since most weapons wont be used at all anymore. Dont put so much effort in creating cool weapons like Okina daggers that look amazing but have average or lower stats. I know its probably simple to just reduce stats on mod for everything but it wont balance other weapons usage.

I prefer having fun using all weapons in arsenal than having to run around with some must have op melee weapon that is only thing that can kill at high lvl places.

 

With such diminishing return u can fix two things at once, melee weapon usage and melee weapon balance.

Just my input on topic.

 

If I understood you correctly, this would make all weapons basically equal, no more stat weapon or crit weapon, all weapons would be crit and status weapons. Or am I missing something?

[DreisterDino]

vor 19 Stunden schrieb [DE]Rebecca:

Primary and Secondary Weapon Arcanes

We are going to start with the biggest change: You can now add Arcane Slots (name not final) to your Primary and Secondary weapons, and fill the Slots with new Arcanes that enhance and reward diverse gameplay.

In general, this is a good idea, but what you guys provide so far is pretty lame tbh...

I mean, all i read there is "on kill: + x damage". This wont help alot, because the damage output isn't the main problem of Primary/Secondary Guns.

 

In my opinion, more creativity is needed than simply saying, you get extra damage once you kill something.

Let me give an example, i made a post about it recently:

 

Zitat

Hey there,

 

so there are 2 topics discussed pretty often, one recently with DE's plans to change the Melee/Gun Balance:

• what are sustainable rewards? (or Endgame/Evergreen, whatever you wanna call it)
• what are the possibilites to make guns a better choice?

 

My idea for this are temporary Weapon Attachments with the following features:

 

• Each Primary/Secondary has 2 Slots for different attachments (compareable to Arcanes)
• once equipped, these attachments have a lifespan of either a) 7 days or b) 7 hours of actual ingame Mission time (numbers are random, it depends on the rarity)
• these attachments can modify the weapon's utility - nothing which adds damage directly (like +Damage or +Multishot etc)

 

• The Attachments can drop in ESO/Arbitrations/Railjack/Eidolons/Orbs
• can be bought from Vendors like Smokefinger, Father or from the Syndicates

 

Note: I am fully aware that you might dislike the idea of items which only last for a certain time, i dont really like this for Argon Crystals for example aswell, and i would never want to have this system for the actual weapons, warframes, Archwings etc. But in this case, i think it might be a good solution, and the drops should be frequent enough + the prices from the vendors should be reasonable so that you should be able to always obtain the attachment you want to try out.

 

I just want to give a few examples for possible attachments, since this is Warframe the possibilities are basically endless.

Attachments could either do stuff which some mods can already do or add new mechanics to a weapon.

 

• explosive bullets: when a bullet hits an enemy, it deals AoE-Damage in a certain radius
• smart bullets: when bullets come close to an enemy (like 1 meter or something like that) they auto-target it
• split bullets: when enemies are close to each other, each bullet will fall apart into 2 fragments, each hitting a different enemy (damage split or full damage for each fragment?)
• disrupting bullets: impacts attract enemy aggro
• magnetic bullets: impacts create a forcefield, trapping enemies and enemy projectiles in it

 

• enemy sensor: aiming down sight will highlight enemies through walls and obstacles
• simaris sensor: aiming down sight will find weakspots - hitting those enhances the damage

 

• enhanced magazine: Magazine size increased
• healing magazine: aiming at allies will heal them (maybe only for beam weapons for example?)
• regenerating magazine: every 2 bullets hitting an enemy will give you 1 bullet back to the magazine

 

• lasersight: when aiming at enemies, they will be blinded (unable to move) for a few seconds
• scopes: aiming down sight will add a sniperscope (different magnitudes possible)
• grips: reducing recoil or faster holster speed

 

Then there could be also combinations like this:

Smart bullets will track enemies marked with enemy sensor and are able to fly around corners.

 

I think this could be a cool addition which can make guns better and bring them closer to Melee (although this will not be THE change to solve all problems, i am fully aware of that). It could also give us room for experiments, certain attachments might be great on certain weapons while being useless on others.

And finally, having these items in the Droptables will be something you might always need, unlike all the Rewards you only need once (i was trying to get Nautilus for example until today, the amount of useless duplicate Sevagoth and Nautilus parts i got were simply frustating, if these drops would have been weapon attachments i would have been a lot happier).

 

An Idea i just had while typing this 😁

Droptables could also change according to what you already got from them, so if you got you full set of a nontradeable weapon/warframe,

these drops could be switched to weapon attachments. (ofc there should be a way to set it to default if you want to farm another set for some reason).

Adding to this:

Zitat

So far i focussed on stuff which could negate the main drawbacks guns have over Melee, so:

• adding aoe damage (explosive bullets/split bullets)
• adding CC-potential and survivability while using guns (lasersight/disrupting bullets/magnetic bullets)
• adding other utility Melee simply doesnt offer (like enemy sensor)

We can easily leave the temporary aspect out of it and simply turn my suggestion into permanent arcanes btw, that aspect isnt the most important.

 

Again, the damage-output never really was the main problem of Primary and Secondary Weapons.

There is a wide spectrum of aspects which made Melee far superior over Guns, and this wont be changed by adding conditional extra damage to guns.

I have no problems killing enemies even in "high" level content like Arbitrations, Sorties, Steel Path with guns.

But i am too slow and too vulnerable using guns compared to Melee/Warframe Abilities.

[Dunkelheit]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb GREF_TM:

  

Yeah, the good ol' OP plasma sword.

Except pretty much every mission that is worth farming in warframe is 120 and below. When the update drops, wanna farm new frame? Probably drops from somwhere between lvl40 and lvl80. How about new weapons and ephemeras from liches? lvl65-lvl110. See the pattern?

The only reason to go steel path when the update drops would be to farm arcanes, and even that is forced - apparently, DE thought that just buffing stuff isn't gonna cut it, and we need to farm these "buffs" too before we can taste them.

Plasma Sword is an extreme example, but I am sure I can get it to work in Steel Path somehow.

For Steel Path, you could play it for the exact same reason as I do: It is more fun with a little challenge...
If you don't want to play Steel Path, all this does not even concern you, you can just go on playing however you want, because normal lvl 60 mobs die fast from everything.

[Nyarllathoteph]

Wow... I always offer you the courtesy of hope that something will improve, that the new accounts you made will get you some insight, but apparently, all for naught... These changes only prove you have no idea what to do. The mods and the arcanes look pretty neat at the first glance, but all they do is they will only buff the already strong weapons. My Trumna will love the arcane merciless.

But some weak weapons? How can weapon benefit from an on-kill effect, if it can't score a kill in the first place. That is one issue. Also, many players don't want to bother themselves with keeping up some random buffs. Some players like stability. With this, the game will deteoriate into a chase for buffs and for kills. And oopsie, enemies won't spawn for a moment (which ain't player's fault btw), all buffs are lost, gotta begin anew. And this is not good. The upkeep of buffs playstyle is possible, yes, but not everyone likes it.

 

Also, the grind issue. I fully understand that Warframe is a grind game. But what we want to grind for is something new, some new interesting rewards. New weapons and New, original mods. We certainly don't want to farm for new mods, that are supposed to cross the divide that is there the whole game. This is like saying: You will be using melee the whole time and maybe, just maybe, if you go into SP, you can also start using guns now. If you slash your way through all the enemies first.

The divide was supposed to be fixed for everyone, not just some players. The galvanized mods were never supposed to exist. They were supposed to be upgrades of the old mods. Or you know, how about buffing all games. Just sit within a paper for a few hours, and raise some numbers up. TL; DR: You are forcing us to farm for something that should be accessible to everyone automatically... For NO, REAL, REASON. As if there wasn't enough farm already with the new lich guns.