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Dev Workshop: The Arsenal Divide


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36 минут назад, Dunkelheit сказал:

Will a normal lvl 5 capture mission take 30 minutes?

Will a normal Steel Path capture mission take 30 minutes?

I can't care less about capture missions for obvious reasons, it's not a valid example and you know that. These changes will affect missions like defense, survival and, what was that forgettable thing no one likes, ah, right, interception and they will become a drag, even more so than they are now. "On kill" condition is particularly bad here. And yes, I did enough of both arbitrations and SP to encounter trash mobs that cannot be killed in a swing or two with current Berserker/CO/BR stacked.

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Justo ahora, Teoarrk dijo:

Your statement reads as an oxymoron. You can't have raids and dungeons without challenges so what do you mean?

 

I see yo do not know Triburo's idea on dungeons... That explains your quote. 

 

According to Triburos, he meant to create a weekly/monthly dungeon where mods and abilities could be slowly unlocked with progression within the dungeon. Starting with no mods and abilities, earning each piece of your original build until the end, where everything could be available. What means this? Skills based progression, so the challenge its already there from the beggining, cause you dont have anything excepting yourself to make your gameplay effective. 

 

I dont see the intended incoming update be a real "challenge", its something else... But challenge? No, headache. 

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I'm conflicted on this. Melee changes seem harsh (either don't cap condition overload to 3 or don't reduce the base damage) while gun upgrades are good. Like, REALLY good, to the point that I'm honestly not sure how much stronger than melee they are gonna be. Whatever you do please test thoroughly and send any changes to a test server beforehand to make sure the optimal setup does not shift from melee only to gun only, as that completely defeats the purpose.

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As a player who enjoys using melee more than anything else I can say the changes to the melee mods are good, with exception to Berserker and Condition Overload as they could use some fine tuning. For Berserker, the name already implies fury so renaming it Berserker Fury is not necessary. The red flash that appears, when trying to use mods that cannot be used at the same time (Fury and Primed Fury / Primed Pressure Point and Sacrificial Pressure, etc), is enough of an indicator.

There is also the issue of Berserker not stacking with Fury / Primed Fury. There is no reason to use the latter, when Berserker will still be the choice, especially when it will no longer be tied to crits, making it the best even for weapons with low crit chance. As good of a mod as it is now, at least it belongs only on weapons that build for crit so others use Primed Fury instead. After the change there will be no real choice as Berserker will be the best on all weapons. Primed Fury is a login reward and a legendary mod to boot. That should mean something! It should be better than other speed mods. I'd say keep Berserker only for weapons the build for crit.

Condition Overload having limited stacks is good, but even in its new iteration it will still be too good compared to Primed Pressure Point, which is a legendary mod. Getting 3 status effects on an enemy is very easy to do and doesn't even require a utility primer weapon like the Kuva Nukor or Epitaph. It can easily be done with just Weeping Wounds alone. Condition Overload should require more for the extra power it is giving. I propose a 50% damage bonus stacking 5 times. For this mod to be better than Primed Pressure Point it should require the player to build more into a gameplay that spreads status instead of overshadowing Primed Pressure Point, a legendary mod, in every scenario.

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My most used weapon is the OG Opticor (yes, not even Vandal has more playtime than my OG opticor). I will hereby perform the "Opticor test": Can the new features make Opticor (with riven) viable or more viable in SP?

We have:

PRIMARY DEADHEAD

On Headshot Kill:
120% Damage for 24s. Stacks up to 3x.
+30% to Headshot Multiplier.
-50% Weapon Recoil

And the two galvanized mods. 

So in order to benefit from these new things, I need to take my rivened opticor and lose some stats in exchange for buffs after kills (primary deadhead, galvanized chamber) and headshots (Galvanized scope)

 

So the answer is yes but only if: 

1) the enemy has a head to hit 

and 2) I consistently hit it

 

compare to melee: I stack blood rush and condition overload by pressing melee button repeatedly while in range. 

 

I can't help but feel it would be better if guns didn't require kills to stack buffs but just landing however many bullets the gun can spew in 2-3 seconds, because if swinging the melee can't kill a normal enemy (as in no unique mechanics) in 2-3 seconds you're either finding a better weapon or you will build up very quickly until you can overcome that enemy and the entire group it came with afterwards in that time.

Edited by HyokaChan
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14 minutes ago, XzWasPzX said:

I see yo do not know Triburo's idea on dungeons... That explains your quote. 

I am aware of it, in fact iterated on the idea a little by combining it with a sort of limited draft format in a gamemode I titled Slaystorm. 

What I mean by what I said is that the game is massively balanced towards the player. The modifiers for the enemies would have be more wild than SP.

Completely agree on the new update though. It won't really change anything.

Edited by Teoarrk
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1 minute ago, (XBOX)CFG SatanDevil said:

The problem is, u will lose all ur buffs on the new mods when ur are playing relics missions like survival, defense …… 

it tools to long to select the reward, put in new relic……. Buffs are gone 

time is paused during the relic select/extract or continue screen. Downtime in defense is between waves which may be enough to break your streaks.

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4 hours ago, HyokaChan said:

time is paused during the relic select/extract or continue screen. Downtime in defense is between waves which may be enough to break your streaks.

Are u sure it’s paused exactly? 
When it count 5…4…3 to see the reward its not paused I think 

 

We need enemy plates like energy/health plates to spawn enemies for holding the buff 😂

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22 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Dev Workshop: The Arsenal Divide

Tenno,

When choosing weapons for a mission, the Tenno have a lot to consider...

  • Which weapons are strong enough for me to fight at this level?

  • Which weapons are best against this faction?

  • Which weapons are the most efficient and easy to use?

  • Which weapons do I have the most fun with?

  • Which Mods make these weapons perform best?

 

The average player will ask themselves at least one of these questions (usually more) before making a selection. Not all weapons are built equal, but ideally there are several answers to each query, so that Tenno can make their own choices from a variety of options and keep things fresh. If one category of weapons outclasses all the others, or makes them feel redundant, then we as developers want to step in to make sure choice exists for the sake of fun.
 

Enter melee weapons, and equally importantly, the Mods you can use on them. Tenno have spent years sharpening their blades, but as a result, we’ve seen Primary and Secondary weapons collecting rust. And the longer we avoid addressing it, the worse this divide will become. 


We are changing Melee and Primary in for the singular purpose of making the combat experience more balanced, especially at high level play (Steel Path, etc). 

 

Generally speaking, we feel that gun stats are in a good place, but it's the Mods that are lacking. Inversely, some Melee Mods are too strong. We intend to address these issues in two ways: firstly, careful nerfs to a handful of Melee Mods; secondly, by offering greater strength for the rest of your Arsenal with Primary and Secondary Arcanes and new Galvanized Mods.  

 

Our goal is to encourage you to use your entire Arsenal in-mission. Switching between Primary, Secondary, and Melee weapons should feel like valid and strategic options, in contrast to the uncontested Melee dominance that exists in the current meta. We want Melee to be fun and powerful as you rip and tear your way through the solar system but we want players to have that same level of fun and power with Primary and Secondary weapons should that be their preference. 

 

The option to choose is key here -- one that is lessened by the current divide between Melee and everything else. Our approach to lessen this divide will be through changes to existing Mods, the addition of new Mods, as well as introducing new Primary and Secondary Weapon Upgrades.
 

TABLE OF CONTENTS 

  • Melee Mod Nerfs

  • Weapon Changes

  • Primary and Secondary Weapon Arcanes

  • Galvanized Mods

  • Login Items

 

If you’d rather watch a video going over this Workshop and the Sisters of Parvos Update at large, check this out:
 

 

 


 

 


Melee Mod Nerfs

 

We have 5 categories of changes coming:

Berserker
Bloodrush
Condition Overload
Glaives
Kuva Nukor


 

Berserker:

Attack Speed increases for Melee are part of what makes it so dominant. This is especially true when the conditions to reach animation-breaking Attack Speed are as simple as current Berserker: ‘on Critical Hit’. Infinite Attack-Speed Uptime is possible with a single Mod, and the result is animation noise with no distinction between hits, coupled with massive Damage output. 

 

We still want to support the ability to increase your Melee Attack Speed and Damage Output, just not to the levels you currently can.

Berserker is changing from:

+30% Attack Speed (Max 75%) for 24s on Critical Hit
 

To:

Beserker Fury, cannot stack with Fury.
On Melee Kill:
+35% Attack Speed (Max 70%)  for 10s. Stacks up to 2x. 

 

This is important because:

- It decouples it from Critical Chance.
- Adds a more defined ramp up using ‘On Kill’ instead of On Crit (which frequently meant 0 to ‘Max’ in one swing hitting 3 enemies).
- Renamed to Berserker Fury to communicate that it can no longer be equipped with Fury / Primed Fury. 


 

Blood Rush:

 

Blood Rush’s maximum value is being lowered.This changes the achievability of consistent Red Crits from just one Mod (on most Melee weapons, some High-Critical exceptions), and now additional help will be needed via Mods, Arcanes, or Warframe abilities to achieve consistent Red Crits. 

 

One Mod alone generally delivering the best tier of Criticals felt too powerful.

Blood Rush is changing from:
+60% Critical Chance stacks with Combo Multiplier

To

+40% Critical Chance stacks with Combo Multiplier

 

Condition Overload

Condition Overload’s maximum value is being lowered. It’s been some time since we originally changed this Mod, and in this time we’ve decided we’re still not happy with the way this goes up against other Damage Mods (namely Primed Pressure Point). We’ve reduced this to 80% to make it almost as good as Primed Pressure Point, and 3 Status Types back to where it was originally. It remains true that even though the maximum potential damage is lower now, we think it is still an extremely powerful Mod in its latest iteration.

 

There should now be a more meaningful choice: do you want front loaded damage or a build up from multiple Status Types?


Condition Overload is changing from:
+120% Melee Damage per Status Type affecting the target.

To

+80% Melee Damage per Status Type affecting the target. 



 

Weapon Changes 

 

Glaives

 

In late 2020, we reworked the Glaive melee class to be more powerful and comfortable to use. Overall, we feel these changes had their intended effect as weapons like the Glaive Prime skyrocketed from obscurity to the top of the pile with their newfound ability to inflict huge damage using heavy attacks.

 

However, these changes also introduced a common issue: players with high melee attack speed would sometimes accidentally throw their Glaives when trying to perform simple melee strikes, and the “catch and release” mechanic sometimes resulted in multiple unintended throws. In reviewing our Melee system, we felt it was a good opportunity to address this concern, while also doing a balancing pass to reflect the power in this newly reworked melee class.

 

That said, our two changes to Glaives go hand in hand: 

 

First, the heavy attack wind-up speed is being increased from 0.6 seconds to 1.2 seconds. With more time on the wind-up, it is much harder to accidentally throw when you are trying to swing.

 

With this increased wind-up speed, players are also more capable of performing quick throws. Right now the damage on quick throws is very close to fully charged, so in order to encourage more meaningful choice, our second change is to reduce quick throw damage to approximately 50% of the maximum charge. Exact number changes are as follows:

 

Cerata

Direct Hit Damage from 366 to 201

Radial Damage from 549 to 333

Falcor

Direct Hit Damage from 460 to 250

Radial Damage from 690 to 345

Glaive

Direct Hit Damage from 210 to 116

Radial Damage from 315 to 190

Glaive Prime

Direct Hit Damage from 328 to 180

Radial Damage from 492 to 296

Halikar

Direct Hit Damage from 298 to 163

Radial Damage from 447 to 225

Halikar Wraith

Direct Hit Damage from 503 to 263

Radial Damage from 621 to 329

Kestrel

Direct Hit Damage from 168 to 92

Radial Damage from 252 to 126

Orvius

Direct Hit Damage from 390 to 215

Radial Damage from to 520 to 293

Pathocyst

Direct Hit Damage from 524 to 288

Radial Damage from 786 to 393

Xoris

Direct Hit Damage from 240 to 120

Radial Damage from 480 to 250


 

Kuva Nukor

 

We are indeed touching 1 non-Melee item in the series of Nerfs, and likely to no one’s surprise it’s the Kuva Nukor. It’s a dominant Secondary with incredible power, which is warranted given its acquisition. It’ll keep all of its signature behaviour, but the general output is being notched down slightly with the following change:
- Chains targets reduced to 2 from 4



Onward to Primary & Secondary…

With all the information about how we are lessening power in some ways, let’s move onto the way we are increasing the power available to Primary & Secondary weapon options. 

 

Primary and Secondary Weapon Arcanes


We are going to start with the biggest change: You can now add Arcane Slots (name not final) to your Primary and Secondary weapons, and fill the Slots with new Arcanes that enhance and reward diverse gameplay. 

 

Our entire approach to making Guns a comparable choice in your Arsenal orbits around the notion that Gunplay is fundamentally more varied than Melee: there are pinpoint accuracy guns, AOE guns, and high fire rate Guns (and everything in between). There’s reload times, magazine sizes, and more. We want to make these varied options better at what they do by rewarding you for using them well - thus, Arcanes! 


Because the Gunplay falloff is more of a late-game problem, these new Upgrades will be earned through late-game content systems -- namely, the Steel Path. You’ll be able to get the Arcane Slot Unlockers from Steel Path Honors, whereas the Arcanes themselves drop from Acolytes in the Steel Path! The spawn frequency of Acolytes is also being increased, meaning you’ll get more Steel Essence, as well as more chances for the Arcane you want. All Acolytes will drop them!  

 

There are 6 Arcanes (3 Primary, 3 Secondary) that you’ll be able to rank up and put to put into the new Slots:

PRIMARY:

The first Primary Arcane is designed with Primary weapons that perform well as AOE or high rate-of-fire weapons. This Arcane will reward kills with the following stats at Max rank:


PRIMARY MERCILESS

On Kill:
+30% Damage for 6s. Stacks up to 12x.
+30% Reload Speed
+100% Ammo Max

The more you kill, the more damage you can build up. Groovy!
 


The second Primary Arcane is designed with high precision weapons in mind. Make your Headshots count for greater performance (excluding AOE headshots)!:

PRIMARY DEADHEAD

On Headshot Kill:
120% Damage for 24s. Stacks up to 3x.
+30% to Headshot Multiplier.
-50% Weapon Recoil

 

The final Primary Arcane is designed with using your full loadout in mind, enter Melee synergy:

PRIMARY DEXTERITY

On Melee Kill: +60% Damage for 20s. Stacks up to 6x.


 

SECONDARY: 

Secondary Weapons will receive the same options as Primary Weapons for their Arcanes, but with their own version. In practice, you’d be able to equip yourself with a Precision Secondary like the Knell, a high-fire rate Primary like the Grakata, and select the Arcane that will reward each play style best!

The stats are the same for the Secondary versions of the New Arcanes:


SECONDARY MERCILESS

On Kill:

+30% Damage for 6s. Stacks up to 12x.

+30% Reload Speed

+100% Ammo Max

 

SECONDARY DEADHEAD

On Headshot Kill:

120% Damage for 24s. Stacks up to 3x. 

+30% to Headshot Multiplier.

-50% Weapon Recoil

 

SECONDARY DEXTERITY

On Melee Kill: +60% Damage for 20s. Stacks up to 6x.

 

Ultimately each Arcane stacks up to the same amount of damage, but it’s how you choose to get there that counts. Precision? Spray and Pray? Melee synergy? Your choice!
 

The “Arcane Unlockers” themselves are an item you’ll need to install on the weapons you want to take further, and you can find the Unlockers in the Steel Path Honors. 


 

Galvanized Mods

 

Our observation that Arsenal imbalance becomes obvious at higher level content means that we want your progression to this content to matter for your power level. We want to give you the tools to progress to optimal play with a new series of Mods: Galvanized Mods!

 

The general approach to these Galvanized Mods is that the unconditional upgrade is not quite as good as the non-Galvanized original, but the On Kill conditional increases them well above and beyond what is available with ‘conventional’ Mods in your Arsenal. These will be available from Teshin’s Steel Path Honors. 


 

Sisters of Parvos_Galvanized Mods_2.jpg


 

Login Items

As with many of our large-scale reworks and changes in the past, we want to honour the investment of time and resources our players have put into their Arsenal! Since these changes are both wide-sweeping and precise, we have a general login inbox planned for all players, with a few bonuses for those who meet certain conditions.


With the release of Update 30.5: Sisters of Parvos, players will receive the following upon login:
 

  1. All Players Mastery Rank 5 and above will receive 5 x Built Forma.

  2. All Players Mastery Rank 5 and above will receive a 3-Day Affinity Booster.

  3. Any Player who owns a Kuva Nukor will receive an extra 2 x Built Forma.

  4. All Players who owned ANY Lich Weapon at any point OR have a Converted Lich OR have an active Lich get 1x Requiem Ultimatum (a new item to taunt a Lich or Sister into battle)!

  5. Players who have Converted a Kuva lich OR vanquished a Kuva Lich will get OULL, which is a Requiem Wildcard Mod! 



 

In closing…

Sisters of Parvos will bring these changes on all Platforms. The delivery of these changes is rooted in our goals, and if we miss the mark we’ll be watching for what to tweak. Keep in mind what our goals and visions are when you give feedback after playing!  

 



EDIT: FAQ:

This FAQ section will be updated throughout the next week and beyond!


Can you buy Arcane Unlockers with Platinum?

- No, this is not a Platinum Market item. They are earned items through the Steel Path Honor’s store for 15 Steel Essence each.

Where do the new Arcanes Drop?

- Acolytes on The Steel Path have a 100% chance to drop 1 of the 6 new Arcanes. 

Do Kitguns get 2 Arcane Slots?

- Yes, one for Pax only, one for the new Arcanes! 

When Will You really buff something?, i don't know how it's working for You But My alltime top10 clan, almost 50% left the game

Always doing real nerfs, without making real buffs, mechanics getting destroyed time after time, this was so cringe if You wanted to bring players back.

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I'm probably something of a wierdo since I haven't used any of the nerfed weapons or mods. (personally hate the melee animations and combo mechanics)

Steel Path isn't an issue (soloed all of it) and the Primary/Secondary arcanes will actually buff my playstyle 😅

Just hope this won't push the meta towards what I've been doing for the past few years leading to nerfs in those areas too... just having to take this into account tells something of how DE manages the game.

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Don't forget about "galvanizing" the Archwing weapons too!

Especially with Kuva Grattler on the horizon.

 

It would be a shame if giant weapons, mounted on a Railjack are beaten

by tall & heavy space combat Archwing weapons which are beaten

by most of the normal Primary & Secondary weapons, forever!

 

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Well, that didn't sting as much as I antecipated. 

I'm positively surprised with the Berserker change. I luvs my speed, but the decoupling from crit chance means I can better use it with some of my favorite status melees. A welcome change overall.

I am sad for the glaives tho. I was just starting to love my Glaive Prime, from not liking them at all before. Back to heavy blades and polearms, I guess. I will give it a chance, though. I seriously hope it's still pretty neat for Steel Path, tho the nerfed numbers don't really make me eager to find out.

As for the rest, seems rather ok. Please let the Liches be conquered as fast as some players have reported on PC, and please don't make those requiem wildcards and lich beacons be too much of a legendary item. Pwetty pwease.

Kudos to the team!

Edited by (PSN)Hikuro-93
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One thing I'm wondering.

Why did Berserker go from on-crit to on-kill when a simple shift down to a static 30% proc chance on-hit could have balanced the mod to work both versus single targets and groups while capping out at 70% after 2 stacks. 

Another thing I'm wondering. Why doesnt the galvanized mods and atleast 1 of the arcanes work like that aswell?

If you are afraid of inflated stats causing imbalance down the line, implement static chance triggers to avoid such infaltion.

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6 minutes ago, (PSN)Hikuro-93 said:

I'm positively surprised with the Berserker change. I luvs my speed, but the decoupling from crit chance means I can better use it with some of my favorite status melees. A welcome change overall.

I'm on the other camp. I removed it from all of my melees and replaced it with Primed Fury. While the revised trigger condition now works for any weapon, it also means it can not be properly sustained against sentients, bosses, or demolysts. Needing to kill a minion to sustain the buff under such scenarios is not viable in some missions and I prefer consistency.

Other than that, I agree the melee changes are rather tame. The nerf to BR and CO still allow for top damage, so it's inconsequential until hours in.

I'm more surprised about Weeping Wounds not getting touched. Any weapon with 19% base status reaches 102% with that mod.

Edited by Jarriaga
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2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Why did Berserker go from on-crit to on-kill when a simple shift down to a static 30% proc chance on-hit could have balanced the mod to work both versus single targets and groups while capping out at 70% after 2 stacks. 

I think they didn't change to proc chance because once your attack speed is high-enough it pretty much sustains itself against the proc chance. This is particularly true for weapons with multi-hit attacks such as the Kronen and Ninkondi.

 

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7 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

I think they didn't change to proc chance because once your attack speed is high-enough it pretty much sustains itself against the proc chance.

Yeah, but what they don't seem to comprehend is the fact that's what makes it usable. You can't just lose your global steroid to:

  • Damage per second
  • Combo (re)stacking speed
  • Stance progression (to strikes with forced procs / high multipliers)
  • Status application rate
  • (if using relevant mod) Armour Shattering rate

That's a lot of reductions that compound together. If you can't expect to keep that, it's as good as not having it at all.

So Berserker is in the bin, we'll have to just tolerate the nerf to Primed Fury/Quickening speeds.

Edited by TheLexiConArtist
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Just now, Jarriaga said:

I think they didn't change to proc chance because once your attack speed is high-enough it pretty much sustains itself against the proc chance. This is particularly true for weapons with multi-hit attacks such as the Kronen and Ninkondi.

 

But how does on-kill make it any more balanced? All it does is make it not work versus single targets i.e bosses. The stacking in 99% of the content we do will be instant and the uptime will be 100%. And if they someday add more boss focused content we'll sit there with obsolete arcanes and mods. Berserker can easily be balanced with an internal 0.5 or 1 sec cd, like most games handle such things.

We get a silly 15% AS bonus over Primed Fury, and need constant adds to keep it up. And it is AS that also doesnt effect finisher speed at all. That alone should be enough of a trade off.

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23 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

PRIMARY MERCILESS

On Kill:
+30% Damage for 6s. Stacks up to 12x.
+30% Reload Speed
+100% Ammo Max

 

23 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

SECONDARY MERCILESS

On Kill:

+30% Damage for 6s. Stacks up to 12x.

+30% Reload Speed

+100% Ammo Max

 

+100% Ammo Max is a bit of a stretch.

I believe 50% Ammo Efficiency is a better solution.

 

Because looking at the effect, we know this arcane is for High Fire Rate - High Magazine weapons.

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Guns Can't kill enemies
guns need buffs
Guns will be able to kill enemies if you can kill enemies

Is that witchcraft?

For most people it's a hassle to press every 20 sec to get a buff (ability) now you give us something which last less and can be kill stolen by other players?

10 sec to kill one enemy, 9 sec to kill one enemy, 8 sec to kill one enemy, 7 sec to kill one enemy, 10 sec to kill one enemy
Include reload, enemy movement, cc
That's just stupid DE

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4 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

But how does on-kill make it any more balanced? All it does is make it not work versus single targets i.e bosses. The stacking in 99% of the content we do will be instant and the uptime will be 100%. And if they someday add more boss focused content we'll sit there with obsolete arcanes and mods. Berserker can easily be balanced with an internal 0.5 or 1 sec cd, like most games handle such things.

We get a silly 15% AS bonus over Primed Fury, and need constant adds to keep it up. And it is AS that also doesnt effect finisher speed at all. That alone should be enough of a trade off.

I never said it makes it balanced. I was presenting a possible reason why they decided against proc chance, balanced or not.

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5 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

I never said it makes it balanced. I was presenting a possible reason why they decided against proc chance, balanced or not.

Which makes me worried that they dont actually understand the problems of the game if they reason like that. I'm honestly quite sure they dont know at all the drawbacks that are innate to the current berserker mod even. If they did they would have probably just placed a CD on it, made it mutually exclusive to the fury mods and called it a day.

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