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Dev Workshop: The Arsenal Divide


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11 minutes ago, Petroklos said:

 

I don't agree with the Glaive Nerf, it feels like it won't change their effectiveness much, but will significantly hurt their gameplay feel instead.

I wholly agree with this, feel free to scroll up and see my view on the matter with glaives 

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So, looking at the changes, we have a bit of a mixed bag:

If Condition Overload is worse than Primed Pressure Point like you intend, it's just not going to be used anymore, most likely. Most people were already swapping out PPP for Condition Overload, due to limited mod space and the fact that stacking multiple base damage mods has diminishing returns. Condition Overload is fine as-is, as it is stronger after ramp-up but worse beforehand. If you want to nerf it, force it to be used in favor of Pressure Point, instead of allowing you to stack the two. Force players to make the choice of initial damage vs long term damage. I think this is going to be the most controversial change on this list.

Blood Rush change is fine, whatever.

The berserker change is pretty whatever for weapons that are fast by default, but it's really going to hurt slow weapons that need that little bit of help to get going.

The Galvanized mods are a mixed bag. The multishot ones are hilariously good, the range/flight speed ones are a strict improvement to the base versions, and the status ones are.. Niche. You might see them getting used to get more status without breaking elemental combos, but the condition overload effect capping at 2x seems a little weak.

Glaives have unsurprisingly gotten hit pretty hard. The Kuva Nukor nerf was expected, but is still disappointing.

Gun arcanes look.. actually kind of good. I'm impressed, some weapons will definitely be able to take advantage of them, especially that +reload. I'm glad they're not super gimmicky weird stuff for once.

 

Edited by MasterControl
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so i get 2 formas for you to ruin up the nukor, great. Keep ruining things that people enjoy in the game without balancing the weapons that comunity dont use, great way to kill your game, nerfs, recycled events and "content"

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If you're adding mods that work off headshots, fix the goddamn option to reduce teammate effects. More often than not I can't even see the enemy if a teammate had the idea of using brighter colors. Which personally makes everything with that mechanic useless to me unless I purely run solo.

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vor 1 Minute schrieb anfuerudo:

Yeah, turning Berserker from "on crit" to "on kill" in a game where Steel Path, with all its flaws and bs mechanics, exists isn't that small. Same goes for BR, CO and whatever else they will nerf or break, errr, sorry, "retroactively fix" in the process.

Yep especially stealpath will get a lot harder with that. And even on earth I coudlnt kill a simple greneer with my cracked gram Prime in under 5 sweeps with all buffs at max... Just dissapointing. 

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2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are indeed touching 1 non-Melee item in the series of Nerfs, and likely to no one’s surprise it’s the Kuva Nukor. It’s a dominant Secondary with incredible power, which is warranted given its acquisition. It’ll keep all of its signature behaviour, but the general output is being notched down slightly with the following change:
- Chains targets reduced to 2 from 4

While I mostly agree with the other changes, I would like to propose a slight tweak to this change. Instead of reducing the chaining targets, would it be possible keep chaining targets at 4 but have status effects only apply to 2 targets, meaning 4 targets can get damaged by the Kuva Nukor but only 2 of the targets will get procced with status effects (the other 2 targets are damaged but not inflicted with status effects). This would allow Kuva Nukor to remain as a powerful aoe type weapon (a weapon capable of hitting multiple targets) while still nerfing it so that melee cannot benefit from it as much.

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12 minutes ago, smashedwookie said:

steelpath isnt the only way to do high level content

I know, and I never said steel path was the only way to do high level content either. I said these mods are just catered to players wanting to do higher level content. If someone isn't a fan of steel path, Arbitrations, long endurance and things like that, then they won't need these mods. 

Personally I don't mind new mods and rewards being in higher level content missions such as steel path, since we didn't really have any good rewards anyway. Just mostly relic packs, Kuva, the occasionally weekly rotation of a Riven mod and like 8ish+ weeks to see an umbra forma. I'm not a fan of how it currently is, especially since the much higher level veteran players tend to just use their stockpiled platinum to buy top tier rivens, so they skip out on the Kuva and unrolled rivens. Their really is a lack of insensitive to do steel path, so having a little more reason to go there is nice, but this is just from my own perspective. 

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48 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Can we remove the Age Block?, not everyone wants to sell their information or give their credit card details to YT, this effects even logged in users Edit: Even with the restrictions off, YT is asking for Credit Card Information or an ID (No one wants to do that)

@[DE]Rebecca

I know I don't feel comfortable doing that

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37 minutes ago, TheGuyver said:

What about hammers and other slow melee weapons? It's going to hurt them without being able to stack fury and berserker.

To no surprise, they only balance based on the like 3 weapons people use. One of the arguments for it makes no sense, at least in regards to "noise". Ranged weapons can have insanely high fire rate to the point it's worse than melee in regards to noise and not seeing what's even going on. A couple of ranged weapons even completely destroy framerates, it's just not commonly complained since they have low usage.

They also, to no surprise, failed to address aoe vs single target ranged weapons. This is just another set of buffs to already dominant, and usable in SP, weapons.

Edited by Yamazuki
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The final Primary Arcane is designed with using your full loadout in mind, enter Melee synergy:

PRIMARY DEXTERITY

On Melee Kill: +60% Damage for 20s. Stacks up to 6x.

 

Sure, more dmg for primarys is okay. But why does is sound so cheeky to me?

"The final primary arcane is designed..."

... cmon, its literally a copy/paste of an existing warframe arcane.

 

Also wheres the Kuva Hek? :D

 

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the melee nerfs are fine. the new galvanized mods seem too powerful. Is this just going to pigeon hole players into switching to primary/secondary for higher content? I always saw Warframe as mostly a melee (ninja) space game with kind of the concept of guns being optional/complimentary. Why make these little band aid mod/wpn changes when your entire damage system and enemy ai needs improved?

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These are my first thoughts/ feedback

regarding power creep and does this fix primary/secondary?

Yes and yes

They mention there approach was to provide a option where it isnt just melee or just one specific idea that revolved around 1 playstyle or item. While you may get excited about a kuva bramma being OP. Think about it from another perspective all the weapons that are hardly played due to issues around stats or damage might just have new life brought into them making them in a term "viable" as in better then it used to be. 

However, now the opposite is true i believe at least from reading. Barring any of those arcanes working on melee specifically the last one talking about melee synergy and giving more damage(specifically the damage staying on just your primary) now half if not more of melee weapons have been reduced below what would be considered a "viable" method. Meaning if you go to overframe.gg and look at the tier list any melee weapon i would say now in tier c possibly tier b and below will not get there shine and will fade away into mr xp.

The issue is a balance or full synergy is hard on many fronts. You are just not gonna hit all the shots sometimes. To me and maybe some people who have their favorite melee have picked one that was powerful, but not meta. For us we will continue to use and adjust as needed. However, thats like shooting fish in a ocean. Your lucky if you get that many people like this. So the question becomes how do you push for a broader aspect that isnt specific but is a playstyle without damaging or shifting it entirely. Tbh i only have one suggestion.

Try to make factions mods now more oriented around melee perhaps. Hear me out. Do something with factions mods in an exclusive way that would allow at least some more damage potential so you are not burdening melee while rewarding primary/secondary. The reason i say faction is due to the fact people usually dont use them its a dropped damage potential due to the restrictive nature/ people having to change there builds to the enemy. 

Maybe make them galvenized in a sense that if these mods are used or making a new mod that is universal would maybe bring a machete up to steel path viabilitiy in a sense of the word as better then it was before. The stats could stay the same 55% i believe. 

Some questions:

Isnt this just gonna break the system back towards melee?

No, these mods existed before but are hardly used. For people that did use them on their weapon will still have good damage output due to it being a multiplicative mod. However, if the galvenized version or universal version is created it could give more push now be used more ie different builds now will be seen in melee.

This suggestion is stupid?

Im trying here all i know is without implementing to much faction mods or damage is the least used, but most sought after because of that requirment of having the right one for the job. To me if it was universal or galvenized there might be more incentive.

 

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4 minutes ago, xcrimsonlegendx said:

So what exactly is a "quick throw" with a glaive?

You need to hold the glaive throw for 0.6s '(1.2s in upcoming patch) to get full damage, otherwise it's a weaker "quick throw".

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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Blood Rush is changing from:
+60% Critical Chance stacks with Combo Multiplier

To

+40% Critical Chance stacks with Combo Multiplier

I'm worry about this change, bc

+40% x 11=+440% while Sacraficial steel alone have +220% and for heavy +440%

I have hybrid build with Blood rush and focus energy that combined heavy attack build with combo counter. On some weapons works wonder, but after this change this build is closed, bc blood rush will need help from gladiator set bonus mods to be euqual to sacraficial steel. 

I think changing this to +50% Critical Chance stacks with Combo would be sweet spot to balance those mods mentioned higher.

 

 

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37 minutes ago, di0n08O8 said:

This looks very nice! I think the right things got an appropriate nerf and the new ways to make guns better look very interesting. I like that the Arcanes all have the same max damage increase, but require different amount of kills to achieve it. I can't wait to try all this out!

Nah, Melee was honestly one of the only things that kept most of the playerbase in Warframe. The power to cause crit numbers and millions of damage on their screen was honestly the whole fun of Warframe for some people. Now thats gone, and the primary buffs aren't even that good,  I think New War is the last thing. I believe that DE has one chance to spark interest in the game this year. If Tennocon 2021 doesn't bring the New War, I think lot's of tenno will leave.

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So regarding the mod chnages , I have no remark : the meta will decide if this is good or not.

But on the arcane Ireally don't like it :

The melee disn't get any arcane, reminder zaw have arcanes that seems ways useless

The secondary and primary get new arcanes that are rank 5 (welcome the grind) while the already existing arcane from kitgun are thrown under a bus.

Why didn't you harmonize the system ?

 

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Cursory read gives me the feeling that, as expected, DE overcorrected in BOTH directions.
Over-nerfed the melee part and over-buffed the ranged part, and poor Nukor got stuck in the middle.

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