Dev Workshop: The Arsenal Divide

[AziSlays]

5 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

Copying direct out of the sheet tends to mangle it. That was mostly the last column's relevance explained in the last line - it's the calculated reload quotient (how much of a weapon's Burst DPS is sustainable through reloading).

First row is Corinth (5 shells, 2.3s reload, 65% sustainable), second is Corinth Prime (20 shells, 3s reload, 82.44% sustainable). It accounts for fire rate, but I was lazy and that's a few columns back so it'd be more confusing than explanatory.

alright thanks. I'm not the type to go with info unless I know I'm understanding it properly.

[(PSN)maguitodelagua]

new content: farm all the same SP but now with nerfed weapons 🤣

[(PSN)sharX17]

"on kill" a low level player like me (MR 13) who's been playing for a month and half will now have to spend more time on mashing melee button.

Could've implemented - guns gain abilities from melee mods or a certain % of it.

From a new player's point of view these changes are a bit discouraging. Now it feels like I have to button mash more with melee rather than using guns. Whole on kill thing is a drag. Should've just buffed the guns stats and provided some new normal mods (not hidden behind high level) which would encourage using guns along with melee.

[xlPreXiioNzlx]

hace 29 minutos, (PSN)sharX17 dijo:

"on kill" a low level player like me (MR 13) who's been playing for a month and half will now have to spend more time on mashing melee button.

Could've implemented - guns gain abilities from melee mods or a certain % of it.

From a new player's point of view these changes are a bit discouraging. Now it feels like I have to button mash more with melee rather than using guns. Whole on kill thing is a drag.

that's true but they can't understand that. 

 

i just suggest to DE to take more time to thinking of what they doing and then release it.  100% of the time are just dissapoint ideas, they can do more better than this and one of the reason this isn't the way to fix the main problem, it seems they rushed it instead of fix what really need warframe and is a core revisited about all the systems in the game.

 

i likes the ideas but how they introduce it is what kill the hopes of the players instead of think what really need the players or the game.

[Stuffybubble]

I don't mind the change except the "BERSERKER". This mod is essential to nearly all melee weapon and directly affects the melee attack speed. BERSERKER mod to the melee weapon is like SERRATION to rifle. To change a mod's function so widely used to something entirely different is BAD idea.  If the buff of this mod can only be triggered on melee kill, melee weapon is basically useless on 100lvl+ map. The change to BERSERKER makes it no kill no buff, but we need the attack speed buff to kill high level enemies. BERSERKER's closest alternative is Primed Fury. If the change to BERSERKER happend, a lot of people will have to repolarize almost every melee weapon they have.  I strongly suggest DE reconsider the change on "BERSERKER". 

[Awazx]

The absurdity of galvanized mods can be summed up in one sentence: when I can kill the enemy (Y) to get the buff (N), then I didn't need the buff (N) either. When I can't kill the enemy (Y), I need the buff (N) and the mod can't give it to me.

[eBlaise]

12 minutes ago, Awazx said:

The absurdity of galvanized mods can be summed up in one sentence: when I can kill the enemy (Y) to get the buff (N), then I didn't need the buff (N) either. When I can't kill the enemy (Y), I need the buff (N) and the mod can't give it to me.

And that's being overly reductive, for one there are fodder enemies that are not a problem to kill even on the steel path, that will allow you to get your gun buffs, and that way you can get rolling at killing the heavy enemies/ specialists too, and for another, it's not that guns are incapable of getting kills on the steel path, it's not a "binary state" that you flip on a mod and suddenly enemies will be deleted, it's just that right now guns take way too long to kill, so, as you start to get your kills piled up, it'll make it gradually easier to kill, same with melee... when you start off a mission with a CO+berserker+blood rush+weeping build, you don't kill jack, berserker will stack in a few hits with a better crit weapon, might need a few more on the others, once combo stacks up and blood rush and weeping kick in, and then as you hit higher and higher combo counts, enemies just melt faster and faster.

[Awazx]

hace 18 horas, Teljaxx dijo:

DE's ability to completely miss the problem, and therefore only make things worse, is truly astounding.

It no longer amazes me. They have been behaving like this for 3 years and it is getting worse.

[iNew_Vexx]

Ok, i dont thing this gonna work and this is why:

Point 1 - Buffs on kill: 100 level enemys is already hard to kill, a heavy gunner or a bombard 100 is hard and on simulacrum you can spend all the bullets on a single enemy, without headshots. If you upgrade this for steel path nad get enemys around 200 or 300 and above, this buff will be useless and so the mod.

Point 2 - Why nerf condition overload and blood rush? I get it, melee is powerfull. But we get more powerfull enemys and isint that easy staying alive doing melee with enemys shooting you. The role point of this game is the feel of being a super powerfull robot ninja and not every warframe have the toolkit to be like this. I like to play vauban and if i odnt have a good melee to kill enemys with my cc i'll never play with this frame again, and this is bad. I dont wanna to be lock to a meta of frames like eidolon hunting have.

[(PSN)WolfieKidd060]

49 minutes ago, eBlaise said:

And that's being overly reductive, for one there are fodder enemies that are not a problem to kill even on the steel path, that will allow you to get your gun buffs, and that way you can get rolling at killing the heavy enemies/ specialists too, and for another, it's not that guns are incapable of getting kills on the steel path, it's not a "binary state" that you flip on a mod and suddenly enemies will be deleted, it's just that right now guns take way too long to kill, so, as you start to get your kills piled up, it'll make it gradually easier to kill, same with melee... when you start off a mission with a CO+berserker+blood rush+weeping build, you don't kill jack, berserker will stack in a few hits with a better crit weapon, might need a few more on the others, once combo stacks up and blood rush and weeping kick in, and then as you hit higher and higher combo counts, enemies just melt faster and faster.

Fodder enemies in SP will still be hard to kill, when your mods are nerfed to hell

[(PSN)WolfieKidd060]

Primaries would still be terrile in SP, even with the new mods

[Monolake]

On 2021-06-18 at 11:41 PM, Shadowradiance said:

Players will always find the one gun they like, then find ways to maximize it.

K-Nukor just happened, to be one of the 'easy' guns for that. 

 

Right now with Primed Fulmination+Epitaph already imo, compeats with it as a secondary. Maybe not as many procs but to apply to a wide area quickly? heh 

CO nerf hidden plain as day.

Epitaph is already busted and will be ridiculous with the buffs.  The problem is that 90% of guns are bad and will remain bad and never used, just because AOE will always trump singletarget in this game, DE never learned that AOE should have weaker stats to balance things out.

[addamrobin2]

Condition Overload

Condition Overload’s maximum value is being lowered. It’s been some time since we originally changed this Mod, and in this time we’ve decided we’re still not happy with the way this goes up against other Damage Mods (namely Primed Pressure Point). We’ve reduced this to 80% to make it almost as good as Primed Pressure Point, and 3 Status Types back to where it was originally. It remains true that even though the maximum potential damage is lower now, we think it is still an extremely powerful Mod in its latest iteration.

 

There should now be a more meaningful choice: do you want front loaded damage or a build up from multiple Status Types?

Condition Overload is changing from:
+120% Melee Damage per Status Type affecting the target.

To

+80% Melee Damage per Status Type affecting the target. 

 

If i'm understanding this correctly, CO will be capped at 240%?

 

[vr37]

On 2021-06-18 at 7:30 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

PRIMARY DEADHEAD

On Headshot Kill:
120% Damage for 24s. Stacks up to 3x.
+30% to Headshot Multiplier.
-50% Weapon Recoil

This sounds awesome but I have just one question. Do bleed procs resulting from a headshot contribute to a headshot kill? I'm asking this question because the "on headshot kill" condition exists for Pax Seeker and that doesnt recognize bleed procs from a headshot. 

If this is the case, then "on headshot" would be better than "on headshot kill" 

Thanks

[Patash]

Shame we don't have a way to test the changes to give you a proper feedback before they go live... 

oh wait... 

WE DO! (shame its extremly underused) 

[(XBOX)z YUKIO OKUMURA]

What would be the possibility of increasing the riven disposition of some weapons for example the nikana 

[CarrotSalad]

On 2021-06-18 at 11:30 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

• Which weapons are strong enough for me to fight at this level?

• Which weapons are best against this faction?

• Which weapons are the most efficient and easy to use?

• Which weapons do I have the most fun with?

• Which Mods make these weapons perform best?

I guess im not average.. As i never ask these questions...
I ask myself whats fun? Then i go into a mission and get steamrolled because im running out of ammo or getting my face stomped on because im having to clear layers of shields and regens in crowds knockdown spam.

Sounds like you've lost focus on making the game fun and instead focusing on spreadsheet warriors. Sigh T____________T

[(XBOX)CFG SatanDevil]

vor 29 Minuten schrieb (XBOX)z YUKIO OKUMURA:

What would be the possibility of increasing the riven disposition of some weapons for example the nikana 

Seriously?
Nerfing melee and increasing riven dispo?  Why? 

That wouldn’t be nice for people without riven

[WolfInstinct]

Why you havent said about the steel essence 5 min nerf here but added into the video...

How about you let us farm things in our own ways and not force us to something else

You made it like this, you havent asked the community how it would be better. You only make the changes based on papers, but not on gameplay...i swear that no one from DE has ever farmed SE more than 10 minutes to see how boring it gets to do the same thing over and over just for a trash cosmetics or overpriced kitgun rivens

There were already 3 nerfs to the SE, first the ophelia, no more hiding in the hole...2nd was a fk you that we have another way, odin were we are actually playing and not just afk, nerfed to drops from acolyes only and now 3rd, people found out that acolyes spawn in one spot in a room, so we pile up and get when smeeta bless us...now we porbably dont have any other way beside just camping FOR REAL in one place where we also get the SE drop in our inventory and we also dont need to move more than 4m to have full life support all the time and everything it does is we will spend more time afking than when we were playing on odin

How are people suppose to play steel path if you nerf a resource so important to even have a way to use primaries there...i wont come daily to do the alerts(that are really easy to be done since there is no scaling there) just to get a mod that will boost my damage from 20k damage to 24k and still not be able to do the steel path properly

DE, ffs, ask the community how it would be better, what is powerful and what is awful, thats how you keep your game alive and make the community happy to play and spend money in your game.

 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

7 hours ago, (PSN)Alphonso-Alonso said:

Oh I see so why the buffs to gun- oh you were just being reductive to dismiss criticism, what a waste of time.

If someone can't kill an enemy with a gun now, they're using a weapon not necessarily meant to be used to one shot level 200 CHGs like a Magnus, or they're new, or inexperienced and need build advice or a teammate composition.

[WolfInstinct]

1 hour ago, addamrobin2 said:

Condition Overload

Condition Overload’s maximum value is being lowered. It’s been some time since we originally changed this Mod, and in this time we’ve decided we’re still not happy with the way this goes up against other Damage Mods (namely Primed Pressure Point). We’ve reduced this to 80% to make it almost as good as Primed Pressure Point, and 3 Status Types back to where it was originally. It remains true that even though the maximum potential damage is lower now, we think it is still an extremely powerful Mod in its latest iteration.

 

There should now be a more meaningful choice: do you want front loaded damage or a build up from multiple Status Types?

Condition Overload is changing from:
+120% Melee Damage per Status Type affecting the target.

To

+80% Melee Damage per Status Type affecting the target. 

 

If i'm understanding this correctly, CO will be capped at 240%?

 

Bad writing from DE...

It means that if you have 3 status types(240% dmg), it will be a little better than PPP, but not as good at it is now(3 status 360%). They want to make it so you think about running CO or PPP instead of how it is now that you run CO on basically everything.

I dont mind it since CO right now is actually a bit too powerful, maybe a +100% instead of +80% wouldve been better, but everything that they said here is just on paper and not final with no public test server...

If they really wanted to say is capped, they probably have said it right onto the change like:

+80% Melee Damage per Status Type affecting the target to a maximum of 3 Status Types

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

5 hours ago, (PSN)sharX17 said:

"on kill" a low level player like me (MR 13) who's been playing for a month and half will now have to spend more time on mashing melee button.

Could've implemented - guns gain abilities from melee mods or a certain % of it.

From a new player's point of view these changes are a bit discouraging. Now it feels like I have to button mash more with melee rather than using guns. Whole on kill thing is a drag. Should've just buffed the guns stats and provided some new normal mods (not hidden behind high level) which would encourage using guns along with melee.

How far in the game are you even at one month? 

[(PSN)Winny6666]

Am 18.6.2021 um 17:28 schrieb (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom:

1.  
2. Condition Overload doesn't interact properly with heavy attacks. Its damage bonus is not affected by the combo multiplier on heavy attacks.
   It should go like this: base damage x (1 + Pressure Point + CO) x Combo Counter
   Currently, it goes like this: base damage x [ (1 + Pressure Point) x Combo Counter + CO bonus]

CO doesn't scale with combo counter but with the amount of status procs on the target I think you have been using CO wrong the whole time

[TheOneMind]

Don't turn steel essence farm back to boring again. Leave it as it is.

[IrrelevantFish]

I'm quite happy with the melee nerfs, mostly. Melee will still be OP, but not ludicrously so. However, I think the gun changes are quite concerning for the following reasons:

1. Those are some huge buffs, possibly large enough to push guns into melee-like levels of OP-ness.
2. With the Galvanized mods' high drain and guns' lack of cap-increasing auras/stances, fully maximized builds will require a lot of polarization. In fact, my best guess for the optimal build (3x Galvanized, Riven, Vigilante Supplies, and all the usual suspects) would require polarization of all 9 slots. I suspect this will lead many players to concentrate their resources onto fewer weapons and exacerbate the dominance of meta weapons like the Kuva Bramma/Nukor.
3. The fact that each weapon will have its own, individual stacks will strongly discourage switching between them during combat. At best, players will briefly switch to a "primer" gun to apply status before using their main weapon to kill, because doing otherwise will require constantly rebuilding decayed stacks only to abandon them for another weapon switch.

My recommendations:

1. Start with more conservative values (maybe ~75% of what's listed here) on the conditionals for the Galvanized mods. After all, a weak initial release followed by a buff will likely induce less rage than an OP initial release followed by a nerf.
2. Instead of arcanes, have "weapon auras" that increase the drain-cap. Maybe give them arcane-like rank-up mechanics.
3. Either have weapons' stacks "freeze"/decay more slowly when they're not in hand, or (if the potential abuse of frozen/slowed stack-decay seems too much) at least extend the duration of the shorter-lived stacks (eg, Berserker Fury) to the 15-20sec range.