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Dev Workshop: The Arsenal Divide


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First of all I want to say, that I like that you are trying to adress certain issues warframe currently has. 

However I would like to add a bit of hopefully constructive feedback. 

First I do think that moving all those effecs from arcanes and mods to ON KILL effects is a poor choice. AOE weapons like the Bramma will profit the most but shouldn't because they're strong enough. Also in endurance runs guns will still be useless, because you can't efficiently kill enemies without the buffs and therefore not keep the buffs up. So everybofy will use melee or warframe abilities again. 

I would love to see these effects being triggered by consecutive crits or status effects, maybe for individual status effects. Something that can be stacked up against very high level armored targets and is more practical to stack up on single target weapons than on the AOs which are already in a good spot. 

Furthermore I'd like to give some feedback about the nerfed smeeta cat cheese. I again actually like this as it rewards a very restrictive playstyle. 

However by now you have taken every possible way of minmaxing steel essence away from us. This is just very frustrating as minmaxing every farm is basically the goal of the game. But in SP we just have to sit and wait for the accolytes. 

I would love to see some secondary objectives which either directly reward steel essence or force a accolyte spawn. This would really motivate us to play missions more actively and give us an oportunity to maximize steel essence income. 

Other issues like looking the key to play steelpath with guns behind steelpath, have been adressed by others enough. 

I love your game DE and want it to thrive so i hope you maybe give the criticism a look and maybe tweak the changes a little. 

 

Sincerely, a Tenno

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Why cant you guys just, leave melee alone,  and implement only those primary/secondary arcanes/galvanized mods instead. You guys are literally making the arsenal divided again,  except the other way around now. Probably so divided to the point where explosive weapons is now meta, no reason to bring your traditional guns and whatnot.

This is what this patch is telling me:

Guns > swords

Not this:

Guns = swords

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3 часа назад, Slayer-. сказал:

You get the buffs by playing Steel Path to get the mods and Arcanes to put on your pew pew weapons, then you'll have a buff.

Yes, you get the thing you need for the mode after playing that mode. Fantastic.

Feels like Eidolons all over again.

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I think 57 pages of comments was sufficient to cover 99% of opinion and discussion on the melee vs gun rework.

So when will Sister of Parvos update drop on all platforms? So we can put the entire mess to the field test? 

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1 hour ago, BloodRavenCap said:

Yes, you get the thing you need for the mode after playing that mode. Fantastic.

Feels like Eidolons all over again.

I regret to inform you that the paradigm of "hard to fight content rewards loot to make it easier to fight content" is not exactly new or criminal.

Not in Warframe (Trials rewarding Arcanes, Eidolons allowing you to improve focus/amp)

Not in other games with loot drops. Or are you going to tell me that Raids in any MMO that drop better gear to better clear them are also a 'problem'?

 

That's not even factoring in the whole thing I already mentioned a few pages back: The mods are in Teshin's offerings, and Incursions will exist of mission types requiring exactly ZERO fighting.

 

The 'on-kill' restriction and limited buff durations are far more of a stumbling block.

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Arcanes & galvanized Mods

In my opinion the arcanes & mods feels like an elaborate p2w.

I mean DE has created a discrepancy between guns and melee through flaws in the melee system and now they want us to be happy about a "intellilink centurion package"(south park). 

If we want to improve the guns we are now forced to buy arcane unlockers for SE ( and later we are allowed to generously pay platinum for it) or invest more formas in our guns, tempting the players to buy them.

Fun fact: we already have arcanes to buff our guns like momentum, velocity, rage, etc. Why can we not use them in our weapons instead of our warframes.

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, (PSN)Svenx13 said:

In my opinion the arcanes & mods feels like an elaborate p2w.

But there is nothing to pay? Sure I suppose you could buy them off other players if that is what you mean by p2w then it's a whole other thing, but unless I'm wrong, you have to grind it out to get the mods and arcanes you want? Doesn't sound p2w?

 

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vor 4 Minuten schrieb Mediloric:

But there is nothing to pay? Sure I suppose you could buy them off other players if that is what you mean by p2w then it's a whole other thing, but unless I'm wrong, you have to grind it out to get the mods and arcanes you want? Doesn't sound p2w?

 

... pls read the whole post.

I think i have written something about the arcane unlockers and formas not about the mods and arcanes itself.

 

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8 minutes ago, (PSN)Svenx13 said:

... pls read the whole post.

I think i have written something about the arcane unlockers and formas not about the mods and arcanes itself.

 

the unlockers will be available via Teshin for Steel Essence, so you don't have to pay any money for them, you just have to play (probably a lot of) Steel path. 

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vor 1 Minute schrieb (PSN)robotwars7:

the unlockers will be available via Teshin for Steel Essence, so you don't have to pay any money for them, you just have to play (probably a lot of) Steel path. 

When the first people complain that they want use platinum for the unlockers, De will allow it. 

Prime example:

Necramech & railjack.

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7 minutes ago, (PSN)Svenx13 said:

When the first people complain that they want use platinum for the unlockers, De will allow it. 

Prime example:

Necramech & railjack.

maybe, maybe not. I don't agree with the idea of having to buy the slots themselves for Steel Essence, when DE has been happy to add them by default to modular weapons. even if they don't take much Essence to acquire, it's still an unnecessary additional step done to try and artificially inflate the Steel Path grind. we also don't know what the drop rates on these Arcanes will be: are Acolyte's guaranteed to drop one? are they all gonna have an equal chance to drop? we need to know this too. 

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1 minute ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

maybe, maybe not. I don't agree with the idea of having to buy the slots themselves for Steel Essence, when DE has been happy to add them by default to modular weapons. even if they don't take much Essence to acquire, it's still an unnecessary additional step done to try and artificially inflate the Steel Path grind. we also don't know what the drop rates on these Arcanes will be: are Acolyte's guaranteed to drop one? are they all gonna have an equal chance to drop? we need to know this too. 

The Acolyte's are set to drop one everytime you fight them, stated by DE in the Video.

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb (PSN)robotwars7:

maybe, maybe not. I don't agree with the idea of having to buy the slots themselves for Steel Essence, when DE has been happy to add them by default to modular weapons. even if they don't take much Essence to acquire, it's still an unnecessary additional step done to try and artificially inflate the Steel Path grind. 

So as i. 

But now imagine it. You don't need unlockers for the arcane slot and you can equip arcane rage & precision on your guns.

 

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1 hour ago, (PSN)Svenx13 said:

... pls read the whole post.

I think i have written something about the arcane unlockers and formas not about the mods and arcanes itself.

 

Apologies, I misunderstood what you meant with the whole post. 

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6 hours ago, Frendh said:

This is true. Combine warframe abilities with melee and I do not even need all the meta melee mods to clear steel path solo. Any prime melee weapon works. A lot of the non primes also work.  If I have the meta mods I can do it with melee only, unless you need range to comfortably hit the target. No primary, no secondary, no abilities. Melee is really strong, kuva nukor is merely some extra sprinkles on the ice cream. I don't own a kuva nukor.

That said, Kuva nukor is really good. That is why it is in the current meta. The majority of people do not have the time or the will to figure things out on their own though. Hence its popularity.

nope u dont need prime weapons to clear it

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In order to enhance the primary and secondary weapons, the melee weapons are reduced to the stage of the exit mission. Why? Shouldn't there be additional mods or damage mechanics for primary and secondary weapons? This has its own advantages, rather than nerving melee weapons to the point where they are out of play in order to increase the presence rate of primary and secondary weapons, as you said.

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Erm, will there be Galvanised variants of Projectile flight speed mods for rifles and sidearms?

Edit: Yet again, no new crit mods for shotguns... Critical Deceleration still only grants +48% crit chance... 

Edited by Hierarch777
Shotguns still robbed of better crit mods.
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4 hours ago, YouWouldntGetlt said:

I am Mesa player

Regulators shouldn't get these mods, just as exalted blade and desert wind don't get blood rush and weeping, and arcane slot on secondary certainly shouldn't work on them too. Mesa is already busted and makes most frames in the game look weak af, she doesn't need any buffs.

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2 minutes ago, GREF_TM said:

Regulators shouldn't get these mods, just as exalted blade and desert wind don't get blood rush and weeping, and arcane slot on secondary certainly shouldn't work on them too. Mesa is already busted and makes most frames in the game look weak af, she doesn't need any buffs.

That's true for Mesa, but.

*sad Artemis Bow noises*

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I wonder if those "on kill" works with enemies dying from slash\heat proc. For instance, pennant doesn't gain speed boost while killing foes with slash proc, and that significantly reduces its efficiency...

37 минут назад, TheLexiConArtist сказал:

*sad Artemis Bow noises*

Yes, i would also dream of improving that one

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Well, I’m late to the party but here I go:

berserker, blood rush, condition overload changes are good, melee is even with normal mods strong so I dont even find necesary this mods, i still use them because I like the way they can grow but even without them melee can do the job, so this changes are well welcome.

sadly I have the glaives and use them for a while but it wasnt my kind of weapon, I dont know what to say about this changes.

kuva nukor, i have mine since it came out and I never put a single forma on it, yet it is a strong weapon and good to spreed statuses but in my case I never  used it to buff melee but to buff primary guns. I’ll wait to test it even I don’t use it anymore.

Now, I welcome the galvanized mods, I don’t have problems killing enemies in steel path and I am using a braton prime because I like classic guns but still think the mechanic “on kill” Is not that great but I’m willing to try it out, would be better and faster scaling method something like on status procs( not type, procs) and it could work towards enemy unit at least for the mods the arcane could be “on kill” because with the mods the weapon will perform better. 

the changes on parazon are great, impact status changes are good too, could be better thought

the helminth expansion is ok, could be fun.

what I wish from next arcanes: 

something that could be fun could be an arcane that when headshot 20% the weapon launch a little meteorite to the enemy dealing AOE damage that could bring single target weapons on par with native aoe weapons.

Or gas cloud that deal your other elemental damage you have equiped.

or freeze enemies in a small radius or electrify them or apply new unique stuff, could even be little versions of warframe’s powers.

and they should scale base on the mods you have equiped, so the freeze/meteorite/cloud or anything could add viral or corrosive as well o rad whatever you like. This arcanes should be affected by status and critical chance and the primary element should be the one from the arcane. 
For example:

The meteorite one have a base damage of 100 heat damage and my weapon has serration, facction, viral or corrosive and x % of critical and status chances all this increase the status procs on enemies hit, so the meteorite at hit could inflict extra damage and always have heat but use the % of status/crit to apply corrosive or viral into the meteorite aswell so it is not just heat damage and this way it scale better 

the possibilities  are so much.

have to put this here:

braton prime with corrosive+heat+facction mod

helstrum or vulpaphyla panzer to spreed viral and do more damage with corrosive. 
this combination melts the enemies because it is using so many statuses to weakens the enemy and increase the damage I can deal and I love that because I’m using to many things that in normal start chart I can’t because the enemy just die by standing right next to them. 
people can say whatever the want about SP but I really like to test stuff there and now with the new mods and arcane dropping from that mode DE is giving me another reason to play there. 
 

another thing people don’t read, the arcane unlocker cost just 15 SE, and the arcane have a 100% drop chance, and this is totally fine and great.

why the hell people play warframe if they are not going to farm? 
why do you want everything for free? 
I really hate what this community have become, just a bunch of cry babies that want to quit the game every time DE change something, you can leave. 

yes I love the new stuff been locked behind SP, this mods and arcanes aren’t meant for normal start chart, you don’t need this mods for that. 

nothing more to say, thanks DEfor the changes and new stuff, I’ve been here for 8 years and I’ll continue because I love this game. 

Edited by Animalon29
Forgot to say something
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16 minutes ago, Animalon29 said:

yes I love the new stuff been locked behind SP, this mods and arcanes aren’t meant for normal start chart, you don’t need this mods for that. 
 

The purpose of the mods they're introducing are meant to close the gap between Primary/Secondary and Melee weapons, this update means regular star chart is getting entirely ignored, so the gap between them will exist until you've completed the entire base star chart.

I've suggested a couple mods to add to bridge this gap that can be added to regular star chart (because Condition Overload, Blood Rush, etc can be dropped from regular star chart gameplay and bounties) and have the Galvanised mods/Arcanes as an upgrade you'll need for steel path but they seem to have gotten buried in the mountain of complaints.

It really is a problem in endless game modes in the normal star chart, most people just revert to using Nukor and CO to deal most of their damage as warframe damage drops off after a while.

Nukor getting nerfed again is expected, however the method in which it is being nerfed is questionable though, when Gaze Secondary can function in much the same way but without the extra elemental bonus you'd get from a Kuva weapon. Its beams being reduced from 4 to 2 makes it near useless as a priming weapon, for applying status to a group of enemies to then use your CO on. 

On top of this, they are nerfing melee mods without providing much in the way of buffs to Primary/Secondary, instead of bridging the gap they are literally trying to squeeze the two halves together with nerfs and hope it balances out.

Arcanes being out of reach is fine, we're used to that with Arbitrations and Eidolon hunts, but the lack of regular star chart mods is concerning.

If you did want to read up on my previous suggestion for an idea on what the suggested mods for regular star chart would be, freel free.

Also, to add on to all of this, there are weapons that come to mind that would benefit from CO type mods, which would allow people to use some of the lesser used weapons in the game (Stug, etc), without having to rely on Rivens (because in my opinion it really is a flawed system, even with proper nerf by usage, the more commonly used weapons are also the most expensive rivens to buy for some bizzare reason, despite how little the rivens actually give them an advantage over regular mods in such a weak state).

 

Edited by DarknessNightshade
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