Dev Workshop: The Arsenal Divide

[(PSN)Oakrux]

Not that it matters to anyone at all, but just adding my two cents.

Putting these mods in Arbritrations has finally broke me. This is a well hated game mode and has just become mandatory and I know I could any of the thousands of play I get from every prime access and accessories and unvaulting I buy. I have so much of it I started just buying the damn crap weapons from the market to save important resources.

But this is too much. You’ve made mandatory mods and forcing us to spend play or play a mode that is widely despised. You might as well put them in conclave.

and what’s all this about not putting them in  steel path as they are needed for steel path? Nothing is ‘needed’ for steel path it’s supposed to be an unsupported optional game mode.

and where was this logic with Eidolon hunts and Orb mothers? Half the things you need to take them down you get from taking them down?

Nah. I’m out of here for a few months. But this is one straw too many.

[ZenHare]

Here is an option to keep galvanized mods mostly as is and bring CO into line. Tie them both to Riven Disposition and call Riven Disposition what it is - Power Disposition. Change the galvanized mod requirement to be "on hit" because I think everyone realizes that "on kil"l is probably not going to work. This way weapons like the Bramma and Kuva Nukor are going to get more powerful, they won't be game shattering so. 

Power Dispo	CO/Galv Mod Bonus	4 stacks	8 stacks	12 stacks
1	40	160	320	480
2	50	200	400	600
3	60	240	480	720
4	70	280	560	840
5	80	320	640	960

 

 

[gvsjunior]

When i saw we could get those new arcanes from sp missions i won't lie i was really happy that we could finally use debuff-focused frames again, like Equinoxx or Mag... then they moved galvanized mods to sp craptrations, i mean arbitrations... so, here we go again...

Its pretty clear the game is really heavy on debuff-focused frames... there are nullifiers, disruptors, arbitrations drones, sentients, and status immune enemies... no wonder the most popular and highly ranked (by the community) frames are buff-frames, aside from Saryn and her utility on ESO.

Right now there is no reason to use a frame like Mag on an arbitration for example, whom the whole kit is based on debuffing enemies to survive and control projectiles, while you can use a Zephyr to walk past those said enemies untouched like Neo from Matrix.

They can remove Equinoxx's damage reduction aura, which is a debuff, but not Ember's, which is a buff... Nidus link, but not Nezha's halo... so on and so forth.

Can't we have at least an arbitration drone that reduces buff efficiency, or duration, instead of one that makes enemies immune to debuffs?

[gvsjunior]

Also no healing return version for guns?

And how about 3 different types of missions on every arbitration cycle, instead of one? Its a real pain in the butt being forced to play a gamemode people hate, just so you can get those valuable resources.

Not to mention those heroes that leave after 5 minutes or 5 waves of a mission... or after 10 minutes, when you just got an adaptation mod you don't want to lose... which means abandoning the mission is a bad idea... which in turn means you gotta evacuate the mission and wait for 40 or so minutes for the next Defection mission, awesome!

[Kaadu]

On that first topic of selecting weapons for a mission:

There are so many weapons now in the game. Could you add a way for players to organise their arsenal. Instead of having to scroll though a mountain of weapons?

If I could categorise my own weapons, I could organise them by power / tier so I could find the good weapons easier.

Instead of having to rely on "most used" (which obviously won't place good new weapons into the top of the list). Or trying to remember the strange gun names.

[ProfessorArctic]

It’s strange to me how people complain about it being on steel path, and then they change it due to the complaints and move it somewhere else that’s easier. Yet then you complain about the mode they move it to. If you can play steel path you can play arbitrations.

[(XBOX)UmbranAssassin]

On 2021-06-18 at 9:00 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Blood Rush:

 

Blood Rush’s maximum value is being lowered.This changes the achievability of consistent Red Crits from just one Mod (on most Melee weapons, some High-Critical exceptions), and now additional help will be needed via Mods, Arcanes, or Warframe abilities to achieve consistent Red Crits. 

 

One Mod alone generally delivering the best tier of Criticals felt too powerful.

Wait what weapons are there that can hit consistent red crits with blood rush alone. most of the weapons Ive used can barely do that even with an additional crit mod on it. Not to mention the ones that can hit consistent red crits require you to hit and maintain a max combo count which isn't exactly feasible/practical to go for in squad settings outside of endurance runs where you have all day to go for it.

[Huggalump]

Imagine doing a tough mission like SP disruption. You'll kill the trash just fine with the ON KILL buffs. Then the demolyst comes. Now that you actually need the damage, the buffs all fall off because you're only hitting one target instead of getting kills. 

[(PSN)armaggeddoom123]

Thinking about it, it just says on kill so it’s not like we have to only use guns or weapons, people like Garuda and wisp would make it almost too easy

[PollexMessier]

15 hours ago, ZenHare said:

Here is an option to keep galvanized mods mostly as is and bring CO into line. Tie them both to Riven Disposition and call Riven Disposition what it is - Power Disposition. Change the galvanized mod requirement to be "on hit" because I think everyone realizes that "on kil"l is probably not going to work. This way weapons like the Bramma and Kuva Nukor are going to get more powerful, they won't be game shattering so. 

Power Dispo	CO/Galv Mod Bonus	4 stacks	8 stacks	12 stacks
1	40	160	320	480
2	50	200	400	600
3	60	240	480	720
4	70	280	560	840
5	80	320	640	960

 

 

Yeah that's a BIG no chief. Tieing rigid mods to riven disposition would... well probably kill the game outright to be honest but to be more specific, kill interest in the mods themselves, or in any weapon below a certain threshold that makes these mods borderline useless, say at a point where they would be less effective than their non-conditional counterparts below a certain amount of stacks (Probably just 2 or 3 tbh as it's just a bad decision to pick a conditional mod over a static one if it's only marginally better when maxed out due to the upkeep requirement). And this would be the case with all newly released weapons because of DE's ridiculous decision to make the default disposition of new weapons minimum.

Only the most dedicated players would ever bother grinding for new stuff if their power was so severely handicapped on launch all the time. It would kill the enjoyment of the game for an absolutely huge amount of people.

A lot of people hate riven disposition already. Making it more integral to the game is a bad decision no matter what you try to do with it.

[PollexMessier]

17 hours ago, (PSN)CambionDrift said:

Not that it matters to anyone at all, but just adding my two cents.

Putting these mods in Arbritrations has finally broke me. This is a well hated game mode and has just become mandatory and I know I could any of the thousands of play I get from every prime access and accessories and unvaulting I buy. I have so much of it I started just buying the damn crap weapons from the market to save important resources.

But this is too much. You’ve made mandatory mods and forcing us to spend play or play a mode that is widely despised. You might as well put them in conclave.

and what’s all this about not putting them in  steel path as they are needed for steel path? Nothing is ‘needed’ for steel path it’s supposed to be an unsupported optional game mode.

and where was this logic with Eidolon hunts and Orb mothers? Half the things you need to take them down you get from taking them down?

Nah. I’m out of here for a few months. But this is one straw too many.

not sure where you got orb mothers from. You don't need anything at all from the orb mothers or vox solaris to deal with them. But yeah the eidolans are infuriating. My advice to people just starting eidolans is usually to.... do fortuna stuff first to get the best amp, then fight eidolans. But that's a painfull process too because of the requirement to max solaris united before you have access to any of the good stuff from vox solaris... it's a good milestone goal if you wanna try and spin it positively.

If they fix some stuff with arbitrations they might not be that bad. Like having more than one abitration available at a time. It's kindof a crapshoot on if DE will actually try to improve arbis more than just buffing vitus drop, or if they'll just take the lazy rout. They do love that lazy rout tho.

The part that annoys me isn't so much arbitrations themselves, as much as that we can't farm for both the mods and the arcanes at the same time anymore. And that the decision was supposedly made because people were complaining that they can't do steel path without these mods which is.... just false.

Steel path really isn't that difficult with the right gear. A genuine cake walk compared to the missions to get Grendel, THOSE are a true #*!%ing nightmare. You really shouldn't even be thinking about getting these mods unless you have the power to do steel path anyways. Guns can kill steel path enemies in a reasonable amount of time already, really, they can. The power disparity's been blown way out of proportion. (Side note it's fun AF stealthing through them with an invisibility frame and it's one of the few things in the game that's really a viable strategy for)

The change was so unnecessary and based off such obviously bad criticism that it's hard not to think that DE just used it as an excuse to increase the grind.

[BunnyHunny94]

Am 18.6.2021 um 16:00 schrieb [DE]Rebecca:

We’ve reduced this to 80% to make it almost as good as Primed Pressure Point, and 3 Status Types back to where it was originally.

Is this supposed to read
"We’ve reduced this to 80% (as it was originally), to make it almost as good as Primed Pressure Point, when the target is affected by 2 Status types."?

Because what the current wording seems to say is: "We reduced CO to 80% and 3 status types. It is now almost as good as PPP." and that does not make too much sense since that would imply CO always being worse than PPP (smaller dmg boost than 165%), while at the same time implying that CO caps at 3 status effects (240% dmg bonus).

[Venus-Venera]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb Huggalump:

Imagine doing a tough mission like SP disruption. You'll kill the trash just fine with the ON KILL buffs. Then the demolyst comes. Now that you actually need the damage, the buffs all fall off because you're only hitting one target instead of getting kills. 

I also mentioned it many times. like other people too ...
absolutely mindless this concept. where damage is needed, it cannot be generated.

the same with deimos arcanes. why develop more garbage? Game should get better and not be spammed with pointless things?

[Venus-Venera]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb (PSN)armaggeddoom123:

Thinking about it, it just says on kill so it’s not like we have to only use guns or weapons, people like Garuda and wisp would make it almost too easy

how's that? good warframe skills or useful weapons don't need buffs!
on the page above it was explained exactly why this doesn't work at all .....

[ZenHare]

 

8 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

Yeah that's a BIG no chief. Tieing rigid mods to riven disposition would... well probably kill the game outright to be honest but to be more specific, kill interest in the mods themselves, or in any weapon below a certain threshold that makes these mods borderline useless, say at a point where they would be less effective than their non-conditional counterparts below a certain amount of stacks (Probably just 2 or 3 tbh as it's just a bad decision to pick a conditional mod over a static one if it's only marginally better when maxed out due to the upkeep requirement). And this would be the case with all newly released weapons because of DE's ridiculous decision to make the default disposition of new weapons minimum.

Only the most dedicated players would ever bother grinding for new stuff if their power was so severely handicapped on launch all the time. It would kill the enjoyment of the game for an absolutely huge amount of people.

A lot of people hate riven disposition already. Making it more integral to the game is a bad decision no matter what you try to do with it.

 

Any decent weapon will drop 3 to 4 statuses on a mob with one hit. ONE hit. One to two IP statuses (depending on the IPS damage spread) and two elemental status. With priming that goes to 7 to 8. (Nukor and Kuva Nukor are an instant 4 more.) That is going to give you 320% bonus to damage. Please tell me HOW OH HOW this is worse than PPP's 165%? I am waiting to hear your wonderful answer. And mind you that is not counting additional statuses from the warframe's abilities, companion, specter, lift or knockdown and statuses from other warframes in the team.

I am stunned by your comment. Powerful weapons don't need rivens giving them the same bonuses as weak weapons. This would be the most idiotic thing that DE could do. How is giving Bramma 640% to 960% damage increase is going to be good for the game?

Oh mind you DE hasn't noticed that other elephant in the room. If DE wasn't happy with 30% of the upper level players using Kuva Nukor, then they are just going to have to bite the pillow and take it when that number zips up to 70%-80% because no one is going to pass up the huge damage bonus of that those weapons give you access to.

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

48 minutes ago, ZenHare said:

 

 

Any decent weapon will drop 3 to 4 statuses on a mob with one hit. ONE hit. One to two IP statuses (depending on the IPS damage spread) and two elemental status. With priming that goes to 7 to 8. (Nukor and Kuva Nukor are an instant 4 more.) That is going to give you 320% bonus to damage. Please tell me HOW OH HOW this is worse than PPP's 165%? I am waiting to hear your wonderful answer. And mind you that is not counting additional statuses from the warframe's abilities, companion, specter, lift or knockdown and statuses from other warframes in the team.

I am stunned by your comment. Powerful weapons don't need rivens giving them the same bonuses as weak weapons. This would be the most idiotic thing that DE could do. How is giving Bramma 640% to 960% damage increase is going to be good for the game?

Oh mind you DE hasn't noticed that other elephant in the room. If DE wasn't happy with 30% of the upper level players using Kuva Nukor, then they are just going to have to bite the pillow and take it when that number zips up to 70%-80% because no one is going to pass up the huge damage bonus of that those weapons give you access to.

name guns without rivens that get over 200% status, im calling bs

[DealerOfAbsolutes]

28 minutes ago, (PSN)Spider_Enigma said:

name guns without rivens that get over 200% status, im calling bs

I think he's referring to multi-shot.

Bog standard Secondary builds have 2.8 Multi-shot. 3-4 status procs per mouse click isn't an exaggeration.

[(PSN)GuffyNuggets92]

Looking at these changes, i gotta say im not sure if your intent with closing the gun/blade divide is going to be the end result. The way your nerfing melee and with how the changes are overpowering guns is just going to have you come back in another update and nerf...sorry, rebalance what you just buffed. This happens every few updates and im sorry to have to tell you this but guns (all) arent balanced at all, currently you just try to make all of them useful but not great in end game content which absolutely  destroys the point of having anything locked by MR. Guns might have a better balance if they were balanced for the MR they become available which would clear much confusion on which gun should/could/would be useful for the level of content players are at. If new weapons were locked behind SP that was balanced for those at that level it would make SP more important or maybe give a damage boost based on MR (ex. MR 1 damage boost 1 so base damage MR 5 db 1.1 so a 10% increase in damage for MR 5,10,15,20,25,30 with MR30 db of 1.6) sure this will cause a divide in players but i dont think anymore than the division currently in place. Also this would make adding a sort by MR a needed addition. Im not trying to say your doing it wrong im just saying take look at the past changes with rebalancing involved and a lot of those changes didnt last or just made things worse or got rebalanced again in a later update. So ,please look at your approach to the issue of balanced content because something isnt gettting done/communicated correctly from the drawing board to the update.

 

Well after an opinion like that i think its time for the good side of things

 

I loved dog days again was able to get all the stuff this time around, the changes to railjack have been great and definitely in the right direction i cant wait to see how it plays after this update, love the visuals as always, load times have been great on the ps5, and a whole slew of other great things i cant think of at the moment (multiple sclerosis has negatively impacted my life in multiple ways and memory is one of them) but im sure my fellow Tenno can pitch in for those things we do like since im sure whoever reads these gets tired of comments about what we dont like.

[(PSN)armaggeddoom123]

6 hours ago, Battle.Mage said:

how's that? good warframe skills or useful weapons don't need buffs!
on the page above it was explained exactly why this doesn't work at all .....

They don’t but you could use a combination of abilities to increase your overall dps. I just find it stupid that they are nerfing melee instead of just buff guns to be a good alternative. Honestly the only thing people are complaining about are grineer and other armour based enemies. You could kill corpus or infested with the right set up with just about anything 

[Venus-Venera]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb (PSN)armaggeddoom123:

They don’t but you could use a combination of abilities to increase your overall dps. I just find it stupid that they are nerfing melee instead of just buff guns to be a good alternative. Honestly the only thing people are complaining about are grineer and other armour based enemies. You could kill corpus or infested with the right set up with just about anything 

at corpus, Demolisher Bursa caused at least some problems on SP. but for me it was max 2 hits with gunblade.

and even if I keep doing 2-3mil hit with mele on SP, it never bothered me. it's about action and loot! I'm not going to chew a mob for 1+ min.

besides, the beginners need the damage. especially against greener, as you say. i can clearly remember when i had serious problems with ammunition in 2013 and kept dying. it has nothing to do with having fun.

[(PSN)Svenx13]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb (PSN)armaggeddoom123:

They don’t but you could use a combination of abilities to increase your overall dps. I just find it stupid that they are nerfing melee instead of just buff guns to be a good alternative. Honestly the only thing people are complaining about are grineer and other armour based enemies. You could kill corpus or infested with the right set up with just about anything 

They should nerf grineer armor.

In my opinion it is a disgrace that we need more time to kill grineers than corpus or infested with the same anti-armor setup ( corrosion/viral+slash)

Steel path has only aggravated that problem.

The effective Health point increase for corpus and infested are 250%.

For grineer the eHP increase is 500%-625%. That is ridiculous and breaks the balance between the factions.

 

 

[XJR15]

Just saw they changed galvanized mods from steel path honours to arbitration - they should just have them acquireable in both areas so everyone is happy. 

 

[lordcominus]

so ur gona kill melee that it i quit held on for years hoping u would wise up but nope that nerf hammer it is

 

[unirock]

It is an extreme argument that I strongly hope for a review of the weakening of proximity, but isn't it most desirable to buff the secondary and primary and maintain the status quo?

What I'm most worried about is the acceleration of the decline in his active population due to the downward revision, and above all, the revision proposal is overall because he is not going smoothly.

I think it should be reviewed. We have seen downward revisions many times since 2013, but we have heard many opinions that motivate us. Regarding the content of the user's remarks

It's hard to believe that the Japanese forum and the English forum are being viewed equally over time. Around 2013, the management side will soon be revised downward.

I haven't come up with a plan, and I've loved warframe for eight years, but I think it's different if it's a downward revision due to some users making it.

He doesn't even know how much FORMA he used to strengthen the primary, secondary, melee, and frame to clear the Steel Road. Approximately only in close proximity

There is still a mission called, right? This UP date will weaken the proximity. Who will be pleased? Isn't this the most important thing? Not a plan that can solve all weakening

It's an extreme theory, isn't it? I honestly don't want to write in the forum either. I've also contacted the email forums, but I think players around the world are dissatisfied.

I think that maintaining the status quo is the most desirable, and if you add it as a new element, you can be convinced, but overall it is not convincing. Only doubts remain about the weakening and the current proposal.

I would like you to carry out the redeliberations once again. that's all

[Aeoni]

On 2021-06-25 at 9:17 AM, (PSN)Kirusdagon said:

Are....you kidding...? Right? It doesn't ask for any credit card or id at all...

Maybe not where you live. :3 It does ask me. I hear it is different per continent or country.