Dev Workshop: The Arsenal Divide

[(PSN)ENEEGOH]

I think these Arcanes are not for sale on trade chat. ony on steel path shop. because if newie gets them, these effects will brake the balance of normal and hard mode.

[DarknessNightshade]

26 minutes ago, Aeoni said:

Maybe not where you live. :3 It does ask me. I hear it is different per continent or country.

It depends on what that country's requirements are for being of adult age, in the UK it's 18, in the US it's 21. It also depends on if Youtube itself flagged the video or if DE themselves ticked the "contains adult content" box on their video, there's been no reply to this thread on it by DE so I think the best course of action is to maybe tweet at them if possible.

[pewy_mcpewerman]

WHYYYY move it from Steel Path to Arbitrations?? So instead of a mostly dead gamemode (once you've collected everything), you asking people do get another 180 Vitus (180!) instead of 135 SE. SE is easily obtainable for any tenno after they finish the star chart - just doing the daily alerts give you 15/day not counting acolytes, so within a little more than a week these are obtainable. Instead we're back to frustrating RNG with a low drop rate (even going up to 6%) and then go back to forgetting about arbi's once again. Just put them in both shops as suggested, problem solved. 

[Sziklamester]

In my opinion these mod changes and introduction of new set of mods are going to reinforce the strong weapons. The meta would not change suddenly and instead you could just make the attack animations-stances better so the attacks actually not make them a huge risk factor. Quick melee is great because it can deal with the enemies faster and more efficient but if you want more usage for combos then the combos should allow the fast pace gameplay.

About gun reinforcement. The best would have been if you look at individually to the weaker or handicapped weapons like most of the single target weapons or assault-hunting rifles because these are weak. A lot of secondaries also just collecting dust because you refuse the stat revisit what is needed for certain weapons. I know it is more easy to make few mods to solve problems but this kind of lazy approach only will anger the playerbase and basically not solve anything from the problems.

I could give you hints what weapons needs some stat changes to be more useful without making them powercreep. I personally would like to go for the harder work route and individually buff those weapons what needs, slightly nerf what outlier and adding utility to certain weapons also adding a stance like slot for secondaries and primaries so you can put some lifesaver mod there. Fully not possible to make balance because that is not really exists in video games and always needs adjustment to follow changes and weapon metas but these mod additions only have benefit for the already strong weapons. 

 

[ZenHare]

 

23 hours ago, (PSN)Spider_Enigma said:

name guns without rivens that get over 200% status, im calling bs

Everyone has forgotten shotguns. /cry For example, Kohm with a couple of shots will top my previous example. It will actually give you an easy five statuses with a two elemental build. +400% damage (on top of all the other bonuses) as long as you can kill with it. Kuva Kohm can kill at SP, it's ammo economy is sadly garbage. It's not completely worthless, but it will probably be obnoxious at levels under 80 with those mods. At levels over 80, I expect it may serve the same function as Nukor as a primer for people that want to use a different secondary than Kuva Nukor or who want to push Kuvor Nukor to greater heights. For people focusing on their primary or melee weapon, then the Kuva Nukor will be the primer of choice.

Here is an example. The warframe that want to use will dictate which elemental mods you need to use since it is difficult but may not impossible to change them through the Helminth. You could add magnetic damage from Pull or fire damage from Fire Blast, but this gets into cast times and whether the delay would cause statuses to fall off as well as those abilities being not optimum abilities. 

Example set up. For an CO Melee/GA Primary "soon"

Nezha - fire (Fire Walker), knockdown (Divine Spear)

Kuva Nukor - radiation, microwave, (and your choice of two more*) - toxin, magnetic

Melee (or Primary) - slash, impact and/or puncture, viral, electricity

There you go 10 statuses all by yourself. No help needed. Currently, this will give your Melee with Condition Overload +1200%  damage. After the nerf, it drops down to +800%; but are there any other mods that come even close to that? And then we are about "almost" hand it out to every weapon.

*On one hand, I wonder how quickly this next release is going to come, so there may be plenty of time to have fun with CO until then. Heck, it is not like CO is going to be worthless by any stretch of the imagination. It will still be the best mod to stick on any weapon regardless if it is a crit, status or hybrid type weapon. So, let's say I want to play Saryn instead of Nezha. Well, my Toxin based Kuva Nukor is no longer optimum. I am duplicating and thus losing a status and 120% damage. So, what you want to do is get all four of the base types (fire, cold, electric and toxin) of Kuva Nukor. I know, I know. You are about to say I must be nuts for suggesting that someone potato and forma four almost identical weapons. That is the beauty of CO, you don't have to. In fact the weapons can be unleveled for all it matters. The only mods that you need to put into the Kuva Nukor are the three (or possibly four) 60/60 elemental mods that will give you the two statues that you want.

[Frendh]

On 2021-06-22 at 7:28 PM, (PSN)sister-hawk said:

The Berserker change however is a bit odd. I thought the whole point of nerfing it was because it allowed “animation-breaking” levels of attack speed.

That is bs from my point of view. I have used maybe 20 or so of the melee weapons extensively and only Sigma & Octantis has ever gotten bugged for me.

If the intention was to fix the animation breaking and not to nerf they would have simply fixed that. Lets say it is impossible to fix, which is not true, then they would have taken attack speed away from us with one hand but given damage back with the other hand. As in berserker should have a 2nd bonus to compensate for the attack speed nerf.

[ZenHare]

1 hour ago, Frendh said:

That is bs from my point of view. I have used maybe 20 or so of the melee weapons extensively and only Sigma & Octantis has ever gotten bugged for me.

If the intention was to fix the animation breaking and not to nerf they would have simply fixed that. Lets say it is impossible to fix, which is not true, then they would have taken attack speed away from us with one hand but given damage back with the other hand. As in berserker should have a 2nd bonus to compensate for the attack speed nerf.

Her animation break excuse is sadly just a lie. I have run Wisp with weapons with Berserker, an attack speed Riven and Wisp 70% haste and have never noticed a problem aside from the animations playing so fast you can't see them. 

[PollexMessier]

While you're at it can we get a revert on some gun nerfs like shedu and catchmoon?

[Ayrovell]

day 99999999999999999 waiting for update

[MorkiePrime]

my vitus is ready as well...and my 500 plat for buying riven in corpus lich, i need melee

[RockTheNighT]

Condition Overload nerf is be the one of worst things I experienced while playing Warframe. Soon, there is no reason to status modding. No Epitaph, No Kuva Nukor, No Cedo, Etc. What weapons should I use? There will be no synergy between melee and guns.

[-Augustus-]

2 hours ago, RockTheNighT said:

Condition Overload nerf is be the one of worst things I experienced while playing Warframe. Soon, there is no reason to status modding. No Epitaph, No Kuva Nukor, No Cedo, Etc. What weapons should I use? There will be no synergy between melee and guns.

You'll tie PPP in damage at a whole 3 status types and it still climbs from there. KNukor alone will still instantly put huge stacks of 5 status types on oodles of targets (yes, even with the CO-focused chaining nerf...it's what punch-through is for), to say nothing of WW + IPS/more status type(s) on your melee. CO will continue to be epic, and status will continue to be the single most rewarding synergy available in terms of damage. Gun-CO will make it even more synergistic.

There's plenty about this nerf/buff approach to complaint about, but the CO stuff isn't exactly the end of the world.

[majorweed]

I was waiting for an excuse to quit Warframe, again. And i think that's it. Another lazy band-aid update when real time and efforts would have been needed to REALLY solve the power differential between melee and primaries/Secondaries. Instead, we got this, arcanes and new mods in a game already bloated with useless stuff nobody uses anymore, hidden behind a "high level", mindless grind meant to satisfy "veterans" for a few hours, maybe a few days.

In the meantime, newer players takes the melee nerf hit, without even having the chance to benefit from the weapons "buffs" WITHOUT PAYING WITH PLAT. And my guess is that it was the plan all along, finding new ways to force early players to pay for things they just can't get without hundreds and hundreds of hours invested in the game. It's more of a "Players Divide" than an "Arsenal Divide" at this point. That's the issue i had with DE for a few years now. Gone is the developper willing to do what it takes to make Warframe a better game overrall, now they just want to release quick content to make a quick buck so their chinese overlords stays happy.

What warframe need is a real change, something meaningful and profund that can really improve the core gameplay. And adding mods/arcanes is not that. It's not change, it's stalling.

Anyway, that was my last rant. Farewell fellow Tennos

 

[Slayer-.]

DE we need a Nightwave extension please, some of us already at the max amount.

 

[Venus-Venera]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb RockTheNighT:

Condition Overload nerf is be the one of worst things I experienced while playing Warframe. Soon, there is no reason to status modding. No Epitaph, No Kuva Nukor, No Cedo, Etc. What weapons should I use? There will be no synergy between melee and guns.

kuva nukor was a really good weapon. why break it so mindlessly ... I don't know either. and don't want to know either! damage to group was reduced by 50%....
why more rubbish weapons? warframe is full of it!

above all: the devs have the statistics and can see that hardly anyone uses new weapons from gara prime update ... and not without reason!

[Surbusken]

I think their mind is on tennocon, which they put a lot of stock in.

Thinking that upcoming content is going to be so great, the melee nerf won't even be a side note.

Players will definitely let the melee nerf slide once they see what is coming next year !!!1

 

Keep in mind the content coming out now, is content they are done with, they moved on, it's not relevant to them, they are working on something else.

[addamrobin2]

change is probably finalized but oh well let me give some thoughts

Berserker - you've created a massive disparity between fast weapons and super slow weapons, congratulations! Weapons with 0.800 attack speed or lower will be punished severely. Like many have said, nobody in their right minds couple this mod with other attack speed mods other than tryhard meme builds. Leave the effect alone, make it exclusively unusable with other attack speed mods and reduce the duration to 16s similar to Arcane Fury and Strike. Have you tried playing your own game trying to kill SP demolishers, stalkers, acolytes or even the wolf?

Blood Rush - you've created another massive disparity between weapons that can maintain red crits with BR alone and weapons that struggle to even land 1 orange crit with BR + SS + SP + 6 Full Gladiator Set, congratulations! Apparently higher tiers of red crits is a mechanic in this game but you're actively trying to deter players from reaching them. Leave it as is

Condition Overload - still waiting for the official clarification on whether this mod will be capped at 240% damage or not

Glaives - please stop with the excuses. You dun goofed on their rework and it apparently far exceeds your vision and this is you trying to ungoof it

Kuva Nukor - another Kuva weapon selectively nerfed because of popularity, instead of addressing and fixing the broken Kuva Lich system and why these weapons are popular to begin with. Won't be the last time they nerf this weapon, catchmoon is proof of that

Primary and Secondary Weapon Arcanes - will have to see these in action

Galvanized Mods - will have to see these in action

On 2021-06-18 at 10:00 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Can you buy Arcane Unlockers with Platinum?

- No, this is not a Platinum Market item. They are earned items through the Steel Path Honor’s store for 15 Steel Essence each.

Yeah... only time will tell... cough*raljack*cough

On 2021-06-18 at 10:00 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Our goal is to encourage you to use your entire Arsenal in-mission.

No it's not, if that was the case then you won't nerf melee. Nobody was complaining about melee, but as usual... the loud minority trumps the silent majority, namely your loud mouth buddies at YouTube

 

 

 

 

[CloudStrife91]

Tbh the nerf to melee mods is actually an acceptable nerf most endgame melee setups are doing 2-3 + million damage extremely fast and as I extensively use melee and I avoid The Who status proc setups that the current co uses I can officially say that even with just 3 status price it’s more than enough to carry in steel path tbh 2-3 million dmg is way over kill and the nerf actually makes you have to think which I find acceptable. As for primary and secondary I can not attest to how well they will perform but here’s hoping they do well but as for melee your not really losing much as most endless undurance runs are done by warframe meta anyway and otherwise the co as it is now is unnecessary for more casual play

[TheLexiConArtist]

3 hours ago, addamrobin2 said:

Condition Overload - still waiting for the official clarification on whether this mod will be capped at 240% damage or not

Official confirmation (of sorts) happened in one of last week's streams. Word of God Dev said explicitly no cap.

[Cicada144]

I'm sure it's been said a million times but this is just gonna push people to use just meta stuff. Why use that weapon that's fun but absolutely sucks in anything beyond level 30 stuff. Oh boy an on kill effect guess I'll drain my whole mag and every mag to kill one guy. Yay I get a neat little buff guess I'll go look for ammo now. If only my favorite weapon wasn't pure waste of space. 

Also the fact the arcanes are locked at start is obviously just padding out steel path farming more. Presuming it'll be another locked per weapon thing so if you have any desire to do multiple things you have to enjoy torture for a couple months to years to even get to the chance to try out the fancy piece of trash that dropped that's supposed to be fun and add to my weapons. 

Oh and let's not forget these melee needs aren't gonna bring build diversity. It'll just push the meta so much harder. While struggling weapons will return to the box of useless toys. Why use that satisfying hammer when a nikana can kill twice as fast and do it better on all types. Why bother trying out that sword and shield when that greatsword will kill 5 for your every 1. It's not gonna let people play around with different stuff (especially since it's supposedly geared toward steel path) it'll just push the most meta of weapons harder

But that gets de Plat right. Cause it'll push more rivens. Everything build related will always fall down to rivens. Cause who doesn't just adore rivens. DE please think stuff through. The weapons balance isn't in a good place and that needs to be a focus. If everything becomes useless once you get the best shiny there is no options. If you truly want players to use whatever they like not cause it's the best or meta then fix that. Not find another bandage to slap on the leaky boat.

[BunnyHunny94]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb Cicada144:

Also the fact the arcanes are locked at start is obviously just padding out steel path farming more. Presuming it'll be another locked per weapon thing so if you have any desire to do multiple things you have to enjoy torture for a couple months to years to even get to the chance to try out the fancy piece of trash that dropped that's supposed to be fun and add to my weapons. 

How long do you expect people to play per day? 3 minutes?

[-Augustus-]

2 hours ago, Cicada144 said:

Cause it'll push more rivens. Everything build related will always fall down to rivens. Cause who doesn't just adore rivens.

Me, for one. Just couldn't care less and don't feel I'm missing anything (and currently have nothing uncompleted in game). I don't like the stupid gimmick games of unlocking them; I don't like endless layers of RNG involved in what you get; I won't reward DE with my time investment knowing future dispo passes will just screw me over; I refuse to farm just to make a swirly red slot machine go BRRR; and not a single thing in the game requires or even really benefits all that much from having one. Oh boy, that level 2000 SP grineer could die in one hit and display a 5millon damage number instead of just a 2millon damage number?!?! Zomg, a riven is totally needed for my meta build!

What's more, the whacky market for selling them is too much work despite the larger potential gains... few thou plat is plenty, only thing more is needed for is buying rivens.

I'm sure a few (relatively speaking) members of the playerbase are huge riven fans, but I'd be surprised if most players cared enough about rivens to make even a single plat purchase decision because of them.

[(XBOX)Mharcei]

DE gun/melee balance:

"Here's a bunch of stuff to grind, after you finish the star chart. New players, keep using melee. Buy drop chance boosters. Look at all these new timers!"

Me:

"I wish there was more of a point to relays and Iron Wake. The steel essence nerf is too heavy. Get rid of the 1 mission/hr arbitration limit. Why can't the new arcanes be tied to Sisters? Where's the third orb? Smeeta charm icons suck."

Smh

[Old_Fogie]

DE "Our goal is to encourage you to use your entire Arsenal in-mission."

1) Ok Dev's, name 5 primaries and secondary's in the entire weapon arsenal that are non-kuva, non-aoe, and non-rivened that are effective to use in Steel Path without burning through a crap ton of ammo, AND, are highly efficient at killing mobs before we get swarmed and have to switch to melee... I'll wait.

2) Yes, I'm aware of Brozimes vid on top 5 weps to use. Guess what, they're all kuva, and aoe ( rivens were optional). Still doesn't answer my question now, does it?

3) May I politely suggest you turn off your Dev tools, play as an actual player who has had to spend countless hours enduring your layers of grind and nerf's, and then post a vid of your random primary/secondary weps of choice clearing Steel Path with the limitations from my Q #1. I would really be interested in seeing such a vid. 

4) Random question, but since I'm on my soap box, What exactly is your overall vision for Warframe? I'm a little confused here as to what it is. It appears to be disjointed, chaotic, lacking cohesion, and tbh, not really doing anything to improve the overall enjoyment of the game. If anything, especially over the past 18months- 2yrs, it appears to be more "us vs them" mentality. Especially when you have comments that directly support this theory from the Dev Streams. Just curious, I don't really expect an answer.

[akots]

15 minutes ago, Old_Fogie said:

Ok Dev's, name 5 primaries and secondary's in the entire weapon arsenal that are non-kuva, non-aoe, and non-rivened that are effective to use in Steel Path without burning through a crap ton of ammo, AND, are highly efficient at killing mobs before we get swarmed and have to switch to melee... I'll wait.

You should also include a lack of primed mods (too much endo and credits to level them up, too much grid for ducats, and Baro comes too rarely to catch them), warframe buffs (for example, Mirage can clear any SP mission with essentially any reasonable weapon, prisma Gorgon is high recommended for extra dakka), and potatoes (these are so hard to obtain). Or, you might consider getting an Acrid riven for 5 plat and actually modding the Acrid and trying it in a corpus SP survival. And yes, it does work without warframe buffs. You won't kill 500 enemies in 5 minutes but you won't run out of life support either for at least 10 minutes (I did not have enough patients to stay longer). If Acrid can do it, almost any weapon should work.